Erfworld 150 - tBfGK - 137

[ichthus]

Also, I'm fairly certain the red-headed commander at the Alliance's round table discussions early on in the comic is not our plier attuned girl. The one at the round-table did not have bangs (and I think she ended up getting croaked with the tunnel crew). The best I can tell, she showed up at about page 117 (comic 130) here. She also has a line or two in the following comic. However, she thought Ansom was bat boop crazy.

Edit: Wording issue.

[TheTurnipKing]

Damn, I guess one of the coalition got the Arkenpliers, then, if that chick in the first panel the one who was standing at Ansom's corpse.

Also, the screaming guy in the last panel makes me giggle for some reason.

[factotum]

At one million+ cardsets, anything is probably in MTG. What I meant was if the arcane turn rules of MTG allow enchantments to be cast out of turn (pretty sure Instants can, but I wouldn't know).

Instants and creature abilities can all be used on your opponent's turn in MTG. Sorceries and enchantments can't, but then, MTG calls pretty much any spell which has an effect that lasts any time at all an "enchantment" anyway (sorceries and instants are both one-shot things that have an effect and then go away immediately). The things that Parson's side have been casting all appear to be this one-shot type of stuff, apart from possibly the uncroaking of Ansom's dead troops.

[Koretsu]

Wow, volcano shooting zombies!

Not to nitpick, but don't you mean "Zombie-shooting Volcano"? ;)

[ishnar]

There would be no point in showing a completely non-burning person holding the pliers. You would instead show the pliers either being blown from the volcano in the explosion or them sinking into the lava. It's basic storytelling. I

Panel one and two are before/after panels. It's basic storytelling. One of the advantages of being a high ranking antagonist is the moment of impending doom. Lowbies might die without warning, but the one in charge always gets a moment to reflect on inevitability.

[fractal]

Also, I'm fairly certain the red-headed commander at the Alliance's round table discussions early on in the comic is not our plier attuned girl. The one at the round-table did not have bangs (and I think she ended up getting croaked with the tunnel crew). The best I can tell, she showed up at about page 117 (comic 130) here. She also has a line or two in the following comic. However, she thought Ansom was bat boop crazy.

It's clearly the same person. Yes, the bangs are a bit different, but the hair color is the same, and the armor is identical. Are you telling me you think there are two long-haired red-headed warlords from the same faction among Ansom's top commanders? Unless they're identical twins...

[Jon Pander]

Brutal art there, burning them alive and all. Very short comic. I wonder, has it been said at some point where exactly that portal is taking them?

It's taking them to Burbank.

[VariaVespasa]

Welcome Joan of Arkenpliers (guessing on the name). You've joined such illustrious companions as Charlie and Stanley the Tool.

Anyone thinking that she is not attuned to the pliers and is just standing there in awe before being burned alive are probably the same people that thought Wanda was scared when Tool told her Jillian was in the dungeon. The panel in context doesn't make sense if she is not attuned. There would be no point in showing a completely non-burning person holding the pliers. You would instead show the pliers either being blown from the volcano in the explosion or them sinking into the lava. It's basic storytelling. It is also the second time she has been shown with the pliers. Refer to page 132 (comic 145) panel 3 here. We have a new player in the quest to attain the tools.

Edit: Btw, my guess is "Thus ends Part 1: The Battle for Gobwin Knob"

You are incorrect. The attuned tools have a different look to them. The pliers currently dont, therefore they are NOT attuned to Scarlett. I would imagine that there would be a little visual display at the moment of attunement too, which we havent had, although thats just conjecture.

Both this and the other time she was seen holding the pliers were to establish where they were for the readers. The first time to show that hadnt captured them as some conjectured he might, and this time to show that they havent been taken out of GK and are thus vulnerable to the volcano. The eruption is not over yet so being blasted somewhere or sinking is still possible.

We dont know why Scarlett is not currently on fire. Maybe she is somehow fire resistant as you claim, but maybe she is just standing somewhere that hasnt turned to lava yet, or maybe she's standing on Ansoms carpet, which is currently unaccounted for, or maybe she IS on fire up to the knees but hasnt taken enough damage to die yet, or maybe something else which we havent thought of. Personally I'm in the "stare of the doomed" camp, but I wouldnt bet serious money on it. I doubt she has the carpet since that was in the tower zone and I'm not an archon could bring it down to her even if it wanted to, but again I wouldnt bet serious cash on it. I dont predict it, but I wouldnt actually put it past the writers to have her fly out of the volcano on the carpet to "safety", only to run into a veiled Stanley and get croaked for the pliers. :P

The caldera is obviously unsafe for fliers, and should be lifeless by the time RCC ends turn, but I wouldnt rule out Stanley being able to fly when his turn comes on his RED dragon to pillage the pliers from either Scarletts corpse or isolated self. Heck, he might even capture her in the process so he could try to find out what happened. Time will tell.

There is at least 1 more page, and possibly as many as 5, not including any "pretty, an erupting volcano!" pages, assuming that they dont show what happens to Parson in this book. I'm betting they dont show that, but its possible, depending on what the story for book 2 is.

[Zolem]

This is what I was hearing in my head when I saw the comic.
Poor boops. Including, I suppose, those poor boops in the last panel. I guess it would be mere minutes before burning bits of lava start falling on their heads. OMGWTFBBQ!

P.S.: Oh yeah, and excellent graphics!

Huh, the song I was hearing was Ultra Hot Volcano by Men Women & Children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIbsHbB7qlw

[stsasser]

So... is Stanley a barbarian now?

I second that question. Every thing I know about D&D style games, I learned at Giantitp.com. At dawn, how does Stanley feed those dragons and surviving KISS without his last city? For that matter, how does he feed himself?

On the pic of Red: extreme zoomed, it looks like she's staring down in horror at the Hell opening at her feet. No telling what happened after. Pity, she seemed to have a clue.

[Nekomata]

Her face betrays a realization that "it was all for nothing." The war, the loss of Ansom, the Arkenpliers themselves...all useless in a zero sum game.

It's not a zero sum game.
For example, on this very page, all the sides involved attained negative score.

[Fez]

It's not a zero sum game.
For example, on this very page, all the sides involved attained negative score.

Perhaps a negative score, but how much experience did the Trimancer and Parson just get? That's a whole lot of stacks ;)

[Wakky]

Something that no one has mentioned:

The Arkenpliers turn most undead to dust on contact. What if they protect Scarlett by "killing" the uncroaked lava around her? The result of this is that at the end of the turn she will be the only surviving unit in Gobwin Knob, and Scarlet captures the city.

What happens to Stanley and his surviving forces if he loses his final city?

[Nekomata]

Perhaps a negative score, but how much experience did the Trimancer and Parson just get? That's a whole lot of stacks ;)

Yeah, I thought of that. Their value could increase in proportion... but they could have died, for example if the portal malfunctioned due to the volcano, or if they weren't in the portal room. So there are at least 2 possible outcomes: croaked everyone, and croaked everyone but the select few. These outcomes have different value, so at least one of them must be non-zero, so it can't be a zero-sum game. QED ;)

[ichthus]

...the only surviving unit in Gobwin Knob, and Scarlet captures the city.

What city? I'm pretty sure that there will be no structures to claim as a 'city' after that volcano has done its thing.

[abb3w]

The Arkenpliers turn most undead to dust on contact. What if they protect Scarlett by "killing" the uncroaked lava around her?

Mentioned by marquiz. I'm pretty sure it's the Arkenpliers protecting her from the volcano, due to the volcano being a form of uncroaked.

The result of this is that at the end of the turn she will be the only surviving unit in Gobwin Knob, and Scarlet captures the city. What happens to Stanley and his surviving forces if he loses his final city?

Depends whether "capture" only requires "hold at end-of-turn" or "hold at end-of-day". If "end-of-turn", Stanley briefly turns barbarian, arrives back at the capital with a brace of dragons and a few knights, faces down a lone redhead armed with the Arkenpliers, captures himself a capital, and ends his status as a barbarian. If "end-of-day", same shtick, only without the barbarian interlude.

More likely, our new favorite hot redhead will not try to hold the city. She's aware that Stanley fled with some of his strongest forces, and will withdraw. I suspect that might lead to Jillian Zamussels getting the Arkenpliers.

[teratorn]

Panel one and two are before/after panels.

.

Unlikely. There's a cloth golem burning in panel two, none in panel one. In panel one they're near the city walls, in panel two they're being carried down the volcano slope by a lava river.

[Arkenputtyknife]

BTW Silly question.
How Parson can uncroak something in the middle on enemy turn?
This shouldnt be posible.

There's been plenty of evidence that casting is possible during the enemy's turn, and we have seen nothing to the contrary—we only had Parson's word for it. Parson's statement to the contrary was either in error, or (more likely) was specific to what he had in mind at the time.

[SteveMB]

Perhaps a negative score, but how much experience did the Trimancer and Parson just get? That's a whole lot of stacks ;)

I'm guessing none, because they retreated from the battle.

[Zael Zuran]

It's not a zero sum game.
For example, on this very page, all the sides involved attained negative score.

Let me clarify. I meant zero sum regarding my personal interpretation of Red's psychological reaction to the story thus far based purely on the artwork. Not a blanket statement on story events that haven't transpired yet, or an assessment of casualty figures that haven't been revealed to us.

She just has a look of dread certainty that it has all been a big rush for nothing more than mutually assured destruction. I freely acknowledge that I may be reading too much into the artwork.

Like the end of War Games (the movie). The only way to win is not to play.

In a way, I hope she survives as the development potential for such a character could be a lot of fun. A misguided fascist peacemonger, enforcing altruism at the point of a sword? A vengeance obsessed crusader? An apathetic loner attuned to an artifact and relentlessly hunted? Who knows?

To me, she just seems like she has more potential to the story alive than dead. But I accept the author's direction either way.

Lot of words, I know. But as a testament to the quality of the art in this strip, the image of her face was powerful enough to let them loose.

[Zael Zuran]

I'm guessing none, because they retreated from the battle.

Agreed. If the hit and run on the siege towers are any indication, then probably none.

[ViciousMink]

Looks like someone is going to be gearing up for some BLOODY VENGEANCE! against Parson....

[Nekomata]

Let me clarify. I meant zero sum regarding my personal interpretation of Red's psychological reaction to the story thus far based purely on the artwork. Not a blanket statement on story events that haven't transpired yet, or an assessment of casualty figures that haven't been revealed to us.

Oh, I just meant to point out that, as far as I can tell, you mis-used the term "zero sum game". Though, honestly, I'm not quite clear on what you meant, what is "the game" and why is it zero sum?

[Goshen]

I think the explosion on the side of the mountain was probably from that side entrance to the tunnels under GK. I sure feel sorry for all those poor troops on the ring road outside of the walls.

I'm a bit surprised that the road up the mountain is clear. That makes me think that the troops at the bottom of the mountain were being held in reserve. Perhaps the ring road around the city was full and it was deemed not-good to have the rest of the troops camping on the steep slope for the road.

Brilliant, awesome, excellent page. It works because of what has come before.

[Wadoka]

What happens to the Arkenpliers if they sink in lava?

Unless it was the very lava from the Mountain in which they were forged, nothing.

Oops, wrong milieu!

Nice use of Munch's "The Scream" in panel 3.

[los olvidados]

Last panel. Is the mountain giving the bird?

[Kreistor]

There's been plenty of evidence that casting is possible during the enemy's turn, and we have seen nothing to the contrary—we only had Parson's word for it. Parson's statement to the contrary was either in error, or (more likely) was specific to what he had in mind at the time.

Not true. Parson said it in Wanda and Sizemore's presence, and they confirmed it. The problem is that the sentence should read, "And we can't cast it on the enemy's turn." That suggests there are other spells that can only be cast on your own turn. Uncroaking is brought up here where it is specifically mentioned to take place on their own Turn.

[Occasional Sage]

There's been plenty of evidence that casting is possible during the enemy's turn, and we have seen nothing to the contrary—we only had Parson's word for it. Parson's statement to the contrary was either in error, or (more likely) was specific to what he had in mind at the time.

Not true. Parson said it in Wanda and Sizemore's presence, and they confirmed it. The problem is that the sentence should read, "And we can't cast it on the enemy's turn." That suggests there are other spells that can only be cast on your own turn. Uncroaking is brought up here where it is specifically mentioned to take place on their own Turn.

I refer you here for the Word of the Titan on the subject. Rob explained in fairly fine detail, since it's causing so much confusion.

I was living on the east side of Vancouver, by Evergreen High. It was on top of a ridge of sorts, so my backyard had a perfect view of the mountain.

I was in second grade at the time. Every single paper and report that I had a choice in involved volcanoes. I was scared I was going to be 'exploded' and fascinated at the same time.

What I remember most is taking a trip to the national park a few months later. It looked like God had run his comb through the forest; far enough away the trees survived the blast intact, but laid over on their sides in perfect alignment. It was a horribly frightening sight for me.

[Muzzafar]

I refer you here for the Word of the Titan on the subject. Rob explained in fairly fine detail, since it's causing so much confusion.

I guess it just needs quoting. Last time you (or someone else) brought it up in this thread it was ignored for the most part.
Soooo...
Hear, hear!

p64 panel 3 seems to be a major hangup. Wasn't intentional and I agree that it's misleading. We'll clarify that for the book.

For the record, the rule is actually pretty simple and I am amazed it's been such a sticking point for people.

• You can move only on your turn, and you can cast only on your turn.
• When an enemy comes to you on their turn, you can engage, and you can cast. This includes when they are attacking your city.

Why could Parson not have ordered a veil to be cast, even if the Foolamancer had been in the group with the wounded dwagons? It was not his turn, and they were not under attack. Once Jillian entered the hex, a theoretical Foolamancer within that hex could have veiled, but it wouldn't have been very effective at fooling her.

Why could Parson have his casters cast on the Coalition's turn, later in the story? His city was being attacked.

Why could the Archons cast the DDR spell? They were part of the Coalition and it was now technically their turn. But they could not move because all of Charlescomm's units' move went to zero when Charlie ended turn. Move and hits are restored to full at the beginning of a side's turn, and (re)forming an alliance does not count as starting a new turn.

Why could the Archons "cast" the contract, when it was not their turn? Well, why could they still fly? It's not a spell, it's a natural magic. There's also a heavy dose of "talking is a free action" in that scene, another thing about turn based games that is silly but almost universally true. It's no sillier than food popping at the start of a turn.

[Kreistor]

Well, I'm not going to apologize for missing one link in a thread 6 pages long. Some of us don't have all the time in the world... or care about everything that might happen in a thread as general as this one.

Thank you for pointing that out, though. I hadn't spotted that the blooper thread got updated.