Parson is a Warlord-Caster?

[Guppy]

Many of us have been pondering Parson's special status in Erfworld:

Has anyone considered that maybe Parson's stats of 'Special' might include being able to use portals despite not being a caster? 'Special' seems pretty open ended could explain how he was able to use it :)

Parson knows all of the rules now, that much is obvious. He is calling for spells and formations as he could only do if he was very familiar with the rules. If Parson says "I'm not a caster; I'll have to stay and fight it out", it's only because it is fact. You didn't see any of the casters looking puzzled at their leader stating an obvious untruth, right?

I've been thinking about the text from Parson's Klogs, #4 and #10:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0044.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0094.html

"Casters are Commanders, and can lead stacks, but almost never do. Casters are too rare and valuable to risk, and give no leadership bonus to the stack anyway. Only Warlords have leadership."

"Makes sense, except for certain exceptions."

I've come to the conclusion that Parson is a magic-user, he just doesn't know it yet. I think he is somehow multi-class: Parson is both a Warlord and Caster. We haven't seen anything in the rules expressly prohibits a single unit from having both attributes, and maybe he was just summoned that way.

Perhaps that's why the Foxmud Warlord from P. 133 was so amazed -- not because his mount got one-shotted, but because he thought Parson had cast the Hoboken spell he was hit by.

We already know from the Klogs that Parson is a Warlord, but a fairly weak one, with a Leadership bonus of 2 (apparently low). However, from Klog 4, we know that Warlords are merely the name for any unit with the natural ability of "Leadership", and there are lots of different types and combinations of natural abilities.

There is some serious ambiguity here, though. In Klog 4 Parson says that a unit with the Leadership ability is called "Commander" or "Warlord." But in #10, he specifically says that only Warlords can have Leadership. So depending on what you choose to believe, you could go either way on whether being a Caster is enough to let your troops selectively engage. My read is that while only Warlords have a Leadership bonus, Casters can still "lead stacks," and thus they can also choose to attack or not.

I am of the opinion that Casters are just the name of a unit with "Magic" as a natural ability. Perhaps that why Parson's bonus is so small; when his character was "rolled" in Erfworld (or translated from reality equivalents), his stat points were split between multiple categories.

Or, maybe being a Caster is a "functional definition", and Parson has made himself a Caster by performing as one:

Parson is effectively shouting something like "x = x/y * 100". It is him that actually does the Mathemancy. Treat it like a wand if you would, is it a wizard/witch that does the magic or is it solely the wand that does it?

And if it's the wand, why doesn't do it by itself?

Hence, IMO, it's Parson that's the Mathemancer here, with a Mathemancers wand if you would

Then again:

Ansom was using a Thinkamancy(?) hat but that did not make him a caster. Parson is using a Mathamancy artifact, does that make him a caster?

[Glome]

Here is the thing though. Either the spell that summoned Parson either translated his real world skills into an erfworld equivalent or rolled up new stats in accordance with being a perfect warlord. If it is the latter, then why did the spell need to summon magic equipment to enhance his natural stats? If it is the former, then why would anyone from earth naturally be considered a spell caster?

To understand why Parson can use the portals, one has to consider that nobody has to actually cast a spell to use the portals, they just use them. So if only spellcasters can use the portals, it is because the portals themselves stop anyone else from using them. Yet Parson's stats are invisible, nobody know who or what he is, probably not even the portals. It is this invisibility as a unit that probably allowed Parson to use teleporters designed only for casters.

[SteveMB]

To understand why Parson can use the portals, one has to consider that nobody has to actually cast a spell to use the portals, they just use them. So if only spellcasters can use the portals, it is because the portals themselves stop anyone else from using them. Yet Parson's stats are invisible, nobody know who or what he is, probably not even the portals. It is this invisibility as a unit that probably allowed Parson to use teleporters designed only for casters.

Or it could be that the inferred "only casters can use the portals" rule is a "not allowed" thing rather than a "not physically possible" thing (i.e. the portals will work for a non-caster, but the powers that be in the Magic Kingdom will take strong exception to the presence of a non-caster). If so, going through the portal as a desperation measure and worrying about that problem later makes sense.

[Guppy]

Yet Parson's stats are invisible, nobody know who or what he is, probably not even the portals. It is this invisibility as a unit that probably allowed Parson to use teleporters designed only for casters.

Or it could be that the inferred "only casters can use the portals" rule is a "not allowed" thing rather than a "not physically possible" thing

Hmm... good points, I hadn't thought of it that way. Well, if Parson does get through to the Magic Kingdom, and it's up to the denizens or rules to kick him out -- since nobody can see his stats, perhaps he'll be able to walk around the Magic Kingdom for a while, pretending to be a Mathmancer or such.

[teratorn]

In a way Parson belongs to the Magic Kingdom, the spell that "made" Parson was written in the Magic Kingdom.

Stanley bought Parson, the casters in the MG made him.

[HandofShadows]

Or it could be that the inferred "only casters can use the portals" rule is a "not allowed" thing rather than a "not physically possible" thing (i.e. the portals will work for a non-caster, but the powers that be in the Magic Kingdom will take strong exception to the presence of a non-caster). If so, going through the portal as a desperation measure and worrying about that problem later makes sense.

Maybe Pason can use the portals "against the rules" since he doen't actually have to follow the rules. That could also explain why no one can see his stats, they don't exist since he is outside the rules of Erfworld.

[Lamech]

Parson could be a caster. There is no reason why he couldn't be, he picked up the "leadership" ablity, he could have picked up any other ablity as well. And as SteveMB has said, we don't know why only casters can use the portal. I suspect that few would want to anger the magic kingdom. Perhaps the portal scans "stats" and kills those who don't qualify.

[T-O-E]

Perhaps Parson will meet the findamancers and predictamancers who made the spell?

Might clear some things up.

So, regular erfworld citizens don't understand maths? Only mathemancers and other casters?

[DevilDan]

Or it could be that the inferred "only casters can use the portals" rule is a "not allowed" thing rather than a "not physically possible" thing (i.e. the portals will work for a non-caster, but the powers that be in the Magic Kingdom will take strong exception to the presence of a non-caster). If so, going through the portal as a desperation measure and worrying about that problem later makes sense.

Good thought.

Parson speaks about trying to cast luckamancy, but my guess is that this is almost certainly meant metaphorically.

His bracer and watch do allow him to perform feats equivalent to high-level mathamancy.

[Kreistor]

Good thought.

Parson speaks about trying to cast luckamancy, but my guess is that this is almost certainly meant metaphorically.

His bracer and watch do allow him to perform feats equivalent to high-level mathamancy.

Check out the catch phrase at the bottom of the box. "Contains a full day supply of Luckamancy." I seriously think he thought that meant he might be able to cast Luckamancy spells that day. It's a perfectly reasonable interpretation of that message, and trying it out would not have been inappropriate, so no, I think he really did try to cast Luckamancy spells. I'm guessing what it turned out to mean was that he effectively had Luckamancy cast on him, so that any random events involving him would turn in his favour. For instance, he hit the wiener-rammer, but the w-r missed him. And stray arrows avoided him while in the Courtyard. And the collapsing city missed him.

On the main topic for the thread, though...

Hippiemancer? Frack, frack, frack...

[TheTurnipKing]

I think Janis is lying for the sake of expediency. Apparently Sizemore has many friends in the magic kingdom.

[Revlid]

Way I see it:

Non-Caster units that enter the portal disband.
Caster units that enter the portal travel.

Parson is not a Caster unit.
However, due to his nature(barely a unit at all), he is also NOT a Non-Caster.

[HandofShadows]

I think the reason Parson can use the portal is because the Rules do not Apply to Him.

[Glome]

I'm going to say that I think Guppy was right and I was probably wrong, namely because Parson being a hippiemancer is a far more interesting development than any of the alternatives. Actually I'm wondering how he is going to explain all of this to Stanley, that he destroyed both Gobwin Knob and the coalition with a volcano and managed to escape because he is a hippiemancer and didn't even know it.

[Lamech]

I'm going to say that I think Guppy was right and I was probably wrong, namely because Parson being a hippiemancer is a far more interesting development than any of the alternatives. Actually I'm wondering how he is going to explain all of this to Stanley, that he destroyed both Gobwin Knob and the coalition with a volcano and managed to escape because he is a hippiemancer and didn't even know it.

That'll be pretty easy. "I wiped out the coalition, renewed our mines, and captured the pliers. We also have a plausible vieling method. In addition I got our casters a crap ton of xp's and additional training in the magic kingdom. Finally I strengthed our ties to the casters there. And oh yeah, I'm a hippymancer. Can I have some money for lessons?"
Stanley: "Explain?"
Parson: "Perfect warlord. Duh."

[ishnar]

Perhaps Parson will meet the findamancers and predictamancers who made the spell?

Might clear some things up.

So, regular erfworld citizens don't understand maths? Only mathemancers and other casters?

I think mathamancy goes a bit beyond simple math. Any experienced erfworlder can look and conclude, just as on Earth, which side is more likely to prevail with a certain margin of error. Mathamancy though gives the exact percentage, which we don't even do here. A RW general doesn't think. "We have a 45.6% chance in the coming fight. On the other hand, a RW general will think, "The odds are even" or "They have a slight advantage." or might even be mistaken and believe "we have an advantage" because in war forces are often attempting to mis-represent their strengths and weaknesses.

Knowing the exact odds gives a leader the option to adjust forces and see how it affects the odds before the battle begins. "What percentage of healers gives the maximum survival benefit to my force without giving an undue DPS penalty in THIS fight?" A mathamancer can plug in the numbers and come up with the ideal result. A normal leader will just have to use trial and error and guesswork. If that mathamancy artifact existed in the real world, aquiring it or at least denying its use to the enemy would be a very high priority for any military leader with a clue.

[Balance]

It could be simpler than we're making it out to be. Perhaps casters are allowed to bring units they have created or summoned through the portal with them. Sizemore, for instance, might be able to bring one or more golems with him, if he chose. If so, Parson might register as "belonging" to Wanda, his summoner, and therefore be allowed to pass.

(Or it could just be that the portal can't tell what he is, since his stats don't show up, and errs on the side of "Don't annihilate.")

[Celebrochan]

I vote that the magical kingdom's portals allow any unit through but the magic kindom will see any non caster using them as an act of war.

Saying that Parson "doesn't follow the rules" would mean that he wouldn't be able to use the portals (as the rules say the portal teleports people.) Unless only the rules that are bad for him don't apply... which might also be the case.

[Glome]

I vote that the magical kingdom's portals allow any unit through but the magic kindom will see any non caster using them as an act of war.

That would be pretty risky for them to do it that way though. While it is plausible that the magic kingdom could fend off any attack coming through the magic portals and even retaliate against such, the huge spoils of the all those valuable casters would mean there would be no end of dumb warlords attempting to take on the Magic Kingdom. Hell, we just saw what lengths Charlie just went through just to get his hands on a mathamancer equivalent.

Being a magic kingdom, it is just logical that they would have magical solution for the problem of potential invasion, in this case a magical defense on the portals to keep non-caster away (and given how rare casters are, that is about 99% of the potential enemies out there).

With that said, regardless of whether Parson is a hippiemancer or not, there is a good chance that there are either loopholes or ways to get around the portal defenses. In fact I bet Parson isn't the first intruder the Magic Kingdom has had despite their precautions.

[SteveMB]

It could be that since Parson doesn't register as a non-caster, the effect that was supposed to have croaked/disbanded him didn't activate.

[Loungeboy]

@ Kreistor: Yes, the "Full day's supply of Luckamancy" makes perfect sense, in how you mean. He offers luck to Bogroll before the veil is used to trick Ansom, and it's fairly 'lucky' that no Archon mentions it before Ansom falls for the trick.
However, it doesn't seem like parson is a caster himself, having not casted any spells with the special words like "Hoboken" or "Scruby". It seems like the luckamancy charms were just a one time use item, like a one-charge wand.

I still think of Parson as BEING a spell, which would allow him to exist as long as Stanley (and Wanda?) are alive. Sort of explains the "special" stats about him he read on that list of troops. We don't know much about summoning yet, so we can't really guess accurately. I DON'T think he's a hippiemancer, that's just Janis protecting him. I wonder why...

[ishnar]

@ Kreistor: Yes, the "Full day's supply of Luckamancy" makes perfect sense, in how you mean. He offers luck to Bogroll before the veil is used to trick Ansom, and it's fairly 'lucky' that no Archon mentions it before Ansom falls for the trick.
However, it doesn't seem like parson is a caster himself, having not casted any spells with the special words like "Hoboken" or "Scruby". It seems like the luckamancy charms were just a one time use item, like a one-charge wand.

Well, if Parson is a hippiemancer, then his first spell will have to be hippiemancy. "Think of the first spell you ever cast."

Apparently the first spell a caster casts must be from their school. Only later does a caster aquire the ability to cast spells from other schools. So Parson's being unable to cast luckamancy has no bearing on whether he is a hippiemancer or not.

Of course, Parson being a caster opens up the possibility of a Parson mind link. And with his leadership bonus, if he's involved, a 4 way might be possible.

Ahh, I like the hippiemancer possibility more and more, but it is less likely.

[Loungeboy]

I wasn't clear - I DON'T think Parson cast any spell. I think the Luckamancy charms had a function on Bogroll, but they don't qualify as a spell. It's definitely a nice story twist if he is a hippiemancer, as it certainly puts him more at odds with the mercenary businesslike Charlie.
Glome had a good point that Parson would/has never hurt anyone in the real world, so if he came over as any caster, hippiemancer is more likely than other options. Maybe the "guard him anyway" was caution over the fact that he doesn't know he is a hippiemancer.
I'm still stuck on what Sizemore and Janis were doing before Wanda got the spell and let Sizemore touch it.

[Kreistor]

I don't think you quite understand what I meant. I was trying to indicate that Parson had a good reason to really try to cast a Luckamancy spell: something the person I was replying to had doubted, thinking it metaphorical. Given what was on the side of the Luckamancy Charms box, Parson was reasonable to think that maybe, on this day, he had the power to cast Luckamancy. He tried and failed.

I am not saying what the Luckamancy Charms did beyond that. If they aided Parson in any way, it was inobvious, especially considering that Parson did little directly that would have had him rolling dice in a game. His pieces did, but not him. Whterh the LC had an effect on people near him or on is side is purely speculative.

[the_tick_rules]

I forget his own stats when he looked at himself with his glasses. But he had that special rule, so depending on how liberal that is used who knows what he can or can't be?

[HandofShadows]

I forget his own stats when he looked at himself with his glasses. But he had that special rule, so depending on how liberal that is used who knows what he can or can't be?

When he looked in the mirror he could not see his own stats. Seems no one can see Parson's stats, including Parson.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Glome had a good point that Parson would/has never hurt anyone in the real world, so if he came over as any caster, hippiemancer is more likely than other options.

Mathmancers around here (on Earth) don't tend to directly hurt anyone. Imagine if Feynman or Neumann crossed over to Erfworld, they'll be Mathmancers for sure (Neumann in particular; Feynmann was a Jack of all Trades really).

But yes, anyway, Mathmancers. Parson could also have been one of these.

However I think that he's not really a caster.

If they (luckamancy charms) aided Parson in any way, it was inobvious, especially considering that Parson did little directly that would have had him rolling dice in a game.

Well, he passed through the portal!

[Glome]

Mathmancers around here (on Earth) don't tend to directly hurt anyone. Imagine if Feynman or Neumann crossed over to Erfworld, they'll be Mathmancers for sure (Neumann in particular; Feynmann was a Jack of all Trades really).

But yes, anyway, Mathmancers. Parson could also have been one of these.

Except we have yet to see Parson use any math more complex than high school algebra, while the people you mentioned make their living based on their understanding of higher math. Actually, I'd like to see Charlie from Numb3rs make an appearance as a mathmancer in Erfworld.

I wonder if people are having a hard time with the concept that Parson is a hippiemancer because they believe that hippiemancers are pacifists in Erfworld? Yet I don't believe that is the case, they are just experts at using non-violent means to win wars for their overlord or patron. Parson of course does use violence to win wars, but only at a last resort. He seems to prefer to play mind games, disrupt opponents and sap the opponent's will to fight. In that way, hippiemancing would a pretty useful tool in his arsenal and one that would make him an even more dangerous opponent.

He could become like an anti-Ansom. While Ansom was an expert at building up coalitions, Parson could become a master at tearing them apart.

[GenocideAlive]

I'm a little cloudy on how and why Parson was able to use the portal.

He says it was a gamble, implying that he would not make it. Once he made it, he guesses he is a caster. OK, so he is/was a caster.

What's confusing for me is, how or why do all the mages in the room know that he has used the portal or that there is some problem with his having done so?

If indeed this is some sort of clandestine operation in which they've maglocked the front door, when someone uses the maglock and opens the door with three other card-carrying members, you typically wouldn't see everyone in the room whip out a gun upon noticing someone using the door in the proscribed manner. Not only because assumably there is some form of organization and simply annihilating someone by mistake brings with it some hefty consequences, but because that kind of reaction is typically reserved for neutral parties or a security detail. It's rare that Person A would just whip out a gun on Person B, for fear that they are mistakenly over-reaching their authority and quite possibly endangering their life. It's even rarer that some person would just whip out a weapon when someone uses a door as intended.

If there is some innate security on it (no non-casters), then ostensibly they would have no use for a security squad to guard it. Why is there a giant coalition of casters armed to the teeth brandishing weapons at Sizemore? Why does this huge number of casters assume that he is not a caster if there is some hardware geared into the portal to prevent casters from entering?

Are they making some snap judgment about whether or not he looks like he could cast a spell and responding with the most extreme and psychotic response possible? Why would a bunch of mages be ready to annihilate someone at the drop of a hat for walking through the portal, does this happen a lot?

I dunno, there's a lot about the storytelling in this panel that leaves something to be desired.

[Glome]

If there is some innate security on it (no non-casters), then ostensibly they would have no use for a security squad to guard it. Why is there a giant coalition of casters armed to the teeth brandishing weapons at Sizemore? Why does this huge number of casters assume that he is not a caster if there is some hardware geared into the portal to prevent casters from entering?

Are they making some snap judgment about whether or not he looks like he could cast a spell and responding with the most extreme and psychotic response possible? Why would a bunch of mages be ready to annihilate someone at the drop of a hat for walking through the portal, does this happen a lot?

Parson is a giant man in full battle gear and a sword with no visible stats, and then he pretty much admits he doesn't really belong there. It is equivalent to a black man bursting in on a Klan meeting armed with a knife and saying "Where all the white woman at?". The Klansmen aren't going to just assume that since the door is guarded, that he must really belong there, that he must just be a white guy in blackface. Nor are they going to wait by for a security detail. They are going to pull their weapons on him.

Also, while have good reason to believe the door was protected against non-casters, it is probable that there are ways around the portal's magical protection that could allow non-casters to break through, possibly even by hiding your stats so that they would like Parson who lacks visible stats. In other words, just because the door is locked doesn't mean that nobody has a lock pick.

Also, there are no civilians in Erfworld. Everyone is created as a member of their lord's military, and spellcasters are naturally going to have their wands with them wherever they go, so they would be able to immediately react to Parson coming through the portal with overwhelming firepower.