New Star Trek Movie

[Seraph]

*Why he doesn't warn his home planet about there impending doom makes no sense
*Even if his motivation did make sense why didn't go to home planet and help build up an army then destroy Vulcan.

its ****ing Romulus. their shtick is incredible amounts of paranoia and suspicion. not only would they not believe him, they'd probably kill the entire crew the moment they were out of the ship and send the thing to a black ops research center for the next 50 years. Nero himself is Romulan, he knows this.

[Joran]

Guys, guys, you're missing the big point. The entire movie is racist!

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George Takei specifically picked a fencing foil because he didn't want to perpetrate racial stereotypes. What does Sulu in the movie use? A freakin' katana! Of course, because he's Japanese; all Japanese have katanas! Oh and of course, since he's Asian, he knows kung fu! Heck, the actor's Korean and they have him playing a Japanese person. I thought we'd have progressed in 45 years!

For those who are wondering, yes, I'm joking. Some background: Sulu in TOS was supposed to come charging on the bridge with a samurai sword, but George Takei didn't want to perpetrate Asian stereotypes so he insisted on using a fencing foil instead. Also, mocked in Futurama:

Shatner: Oh, that's good, good, good, good. And then, George, you give them a karate chop!

Takei: I find that offensive. Just because I'm of Japanese ancestry you assume I know karate. Have I ever led you to believe I've studied karate?

Shatner: Well, no, but you never talk about yourself.

Takei: (sadly) Maybe if you showed a little interest.

And of course later on in the episode, he did in fact know karate ;)

As a person who watched over a decade worth of Star Trek, I liked the movie and thought it was enjoyable. The time travel plot was an attempt, in Universe, to freshly reboot the series and I think it succeeded.

Oh and fresh science stuff. Even if a supernova can irradiate and sterilize a nearby system, it'd take YEARS for the radiation to get there. In a world of FTL transport, they could have easily rescued everyone.

[SmartAlec]

Even if a supernova can irradiate and sterilize a nearby system, it'd take YEARS for the radiation to get there.

Perhaps the star in question was in the Romulus system? Most star systems are at least binary.

[Hawriel]

Well I saw the movie sunday. Im not a die hard treky(er). I am aware of Treks continuity, but not dork enough to be a finatic. I came to the movie with a pritty open mind. I compared it to the ultimates. Things will be a little different but the core is the same. The core of the characters are the same its the continuty that is bugging the crap out of me. Yes I know alternate time line.

However the difference the distruction of the Kelven makes would not put Chekov and Sulu on board the Enterprise with Pike. Chekov didnt join untill afew years after Kirk was captain. It would make alot of sence for Chekov to be in kirks class or just behind him. That's one example for how the actual history could be intigrated into J.J. Abrams alternate time line.

I liked Kirks new history, It made sence seeing as he was now with out his father. I compare it to Sam Jacksion Nick Fury. The character's core is the same but the motives and personality are slightly changed in a way that does not harm him. It just makes him interesting in a new way. However the dudging of my I just want to see this movie as a kid was begining to weaken.

The thing that did it was the romulens. No one new any thing about romulens at that time period. All they new was their lanquage was kinda similar to vulkan. This replaced the moment in time when the federation saw romulens for the fist time. But it was treated as if it wasn't any thing new. Along with the crap black hole plot, and the fact that Pike made a cadet that was one enter button away from being expelled from the academy first officer.

The last plot hole is the romulen ship. Its a mining ship. Nero said so. he was doing his yellow hat construction job when the plot hit him. I dont care what year in the future you come from but a dump truck is a fugging dump truck. Even if it is a drill and back ho combination. I dont care if you take todays giant yellow tonka toy dump truck used in pit mines, and drag it back in time to fight a shermen tank. It's going to lose. It should not have torpedos. Not only this but the layout of the ship was obsurd. One big cavernous space that had mario plat forms for the decks. The whole thing was presuized! At least one of the Kelven's topedose would have breached the hull. End of movie.

I so wanted to like this movie. 12 has to be good. Even numbered star trek movies dont suck.

Edit. I did enjoy all of the actores in the movie. They played their parts very well. I cant stand the story and plot.

[Ryusacerdos]

About Romulans. At their core, they are Vulcans without the logic and emotional training.

Its stated that Vulcans are naturally extremely emotional creatures, nearly consuming themselves in civil war before Surak's teachings took hold.

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Take Spock's near choking to death of Kirk - if Sarek wasn't there to stop him he might have actually killed Kirk right then and there, and he definitely would not of stopped at all if he was not trained to control his emotions.

But Nero doesn't have that training - the death of his wife and child, of his home planet, and most of his race drove him to the genocide he committed and he has no emotional break to stop himself.

Its not logical at all, and that is half of the point of Nero's rage in the movie (the other half is an excuse for the Enterprise crew to get together and kick ass).

[Ryusacerdos]

The last plot hole is the romulen ship. Its a mining ship. Nero said so. he was doing his yellow hat construction job when the plot hit him. I dont care what year in the futer you come from but a dump truck is a fugging dump truck. Even if it is a drill and back ho combination. I dont care if you take todays giant yellow tonka toy dump truck used in pit mines, and drag it back in time to fight a shermen tank. It's going to lose. It should not have torpedos. Not only this but the layout of the ship was obsurd. One big cavernous space that had mario plat forms for the decks. The whole thing was presuized! At least one of the Kelven's topedose would have breached the hull. End of movie.

The ship having Borg level armaments was explained in the prequel comic series, Star Trek: Countdown.

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Nero got some help from Romulan researchers working on reverse engineering Borg technology. Its a mining vessel retrofitted with Borg weapons, shields, and regenerative systems.

[kamikasei]

The last plot hole is the romulen ship. Its a mining ship. Nero said so. he was doing his yellow hat construction job when the plot hit him. I dont care what year in the futer you come from but a dump truck is a fugging dump truck. Even if it is a drill and back ho combination. I dont care if you take todays giant yellow tonka toy dump truck used in pit mines, and drag it back in time to fight a shermen tank. It's going to lose. It should not have torpedos.

According to the comic tie-in,

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after the destruction of Romulus Nero took his (indeed humble and underpowered) mining ship to a secret Romulan military depot and persuaded them to outfit it with their latest-and-greatest technology, Borg-derived stuff that rebuilt it from the inside out and made it capable of kicking ass in its own time.

I thought this was rather silly, to be honest, and it annoys me that they put stuff like this in to supplementary materials. The movie should be capable of making sense on its own.

[Ryusacerdos]

According to the comic tie-in,

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after the destruction of Romulus Nero took his (indeed humble and underpowered) mining ship to a secret Romulan military depot and persuaded them to outfit it with their latest-and-greatest technology, Borg-derived stuff that rebuilt it from the inside out and made it capable of kicking ass in its own time.

I thought this was rather silly, to be honest, and it annoys me that they put stuff like this in to supplementary materials. The movie should be capable of making sense on its own.

Ninja'd you, but personally even before looking it up online I had just made up my own explanation, like the mining vessel was built to mine very special material or Romulans, being the paranoid people they are, had no reason not to arm a ship potentially carrying very valuable or sensitive equipment related to mining.

Actually that is how I deal with most inconsistent things in entertainment - in order to maintain my suspension of disbelief I make my own explanation, one that I find pleasing and enjoy. And if I can't do that then the creators really did mess things up and its not just me being nitpicky.

[Hawriel]

According to the comic tie-in,

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after the destruction of Romulus Nero took his (indeed humble and underpowered) mining ship to a secret Romulan military depot and persuaded them to outfit it with their latest-and-greatest technology, Borg-derived stuff that rebuilt it from the inside out and made it capable of kicking ass in its own time.

I thought this was rather silly, to be honest, and it annoys me that they put stuff like this in to supplementary materials. The movie should be capable of making sense on its own.

Nero must have had the construction yellow paint removed there too. Yet no truck nuts to really show his ship had balls.

Your right. The movie should be able to stand on it's own. It bugged me when I heard about the comic after seeing the movie. Star Wars had been doing this for afew years now. It's part of a full media presentation model holly wood is going for I guess.

[Hawriel]

Actually that is how I deal with most inconsistent things in entertainment - in order to maintain my suspension of disbelief I make my own explanation, one that I find pleasing and enjoy. And if I can't do that then the creators really did mess things up and its not just me being nitpicky.

I do this to. In some cases I do alot of mental back bending to make it work. Just couldnt with this movie.

@swordguy.

Thanks for showing the beagle lines. I totaly missed the names of the admeral and the dog.

[Obrysii]

Besides the plot holes and things being where they are out of convenience, does anyone else hate CGI?

Even now, in 2009, the CGI looks much worse than Star Trek: The Motion Picture's special effects.

[kamikasei]

Besides the plot holes and things being where they are out of convenience, does anyone else hate CGI?

Even now, in 2009, the CGI looks much worse than Star Trek: The Motion Picture's special effects.

Um.

No?

I was perfectly happy with the CG in this.

[Seraph]

Guys, guys, you're missing the big point. The entire movie is racist!

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George Takei specifically picked a fencing foil because he didn't want to perpetrate racial stereotypes. What does Sulu in the movie use? A freakin' katana! Of course, because he's Japanese; all Japanese have katanas! Oh and of course, since he's Asian, he knows kung fu! Heck, the actor's Korean and they have him playing a Japanese person. I thought we'd have progressed in 45 years!

its actually a cavalry saber.

who's the racist one now?

[chiasaur11]

its actually a cavalry saber.

who's the racist one now?

I know this one, I know this one...

Dracula, right?

Curse you racist Dracula!

[averagejoe]

I know this one, I know this one...

Dracula, right?

Curse you racist Dracula!

Don't be too hard on him, he was a product of his times.

[chiasaur11]

Don't be too hard on him, he was a product of his times.

Well, that excuses him then.

Less so in the present.

Plus, he just

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killed MI 13 and conquered the UK.

Not exactly cricket, eh what?

[Flame of Anor]

...so...confused...

[Llama231]

Besides the plot holes and things being where they are out of convenience, does anyone else hate CGI?

Even now, in 2009, the CGI looks much worse than Star Trek: The Motion Picture's special effects.

How so? I do not see.

[Mauve Shirt]

I thought it was a fantastic movie. Very fun, and I think the time travel plot is good enough to reboot the movie. Red matter was dumb, but it's Star Trek, I can't nitpick about the science being dumb.

[TheEmerged]

Besides the plot holes and things being where they are out of convenience, does anyone else hate CGI?

Even now, in 2009, the CGI looks much worse than Star Trek: The Motion Picture's special effects.

Generally I'm the type to allow people their opinions but... um... no.

I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember seeing ST:TMP in the theatres. This is manifestly not the case. We made fun of how stupid most of the effects looked back then.

[Dervag]

However the difference the distruction of the Kelven makes would not put Chekov and Sulu on board the Enterprise with Pike. Chekov didnt join untill afew years after Kirk was captain. It would make alot of sence for Chekov to be in kirks class or just behind him. That's one example for how the actual history could be intigrated into J.J. Abrams alternate time line.

That's about what happens. Chekov is several years younger than Kirk, but he enters Starfleet only a year or two earlier.

Starfleet makes a common practice of assigning less experienced officers to the conn stations on the bridge in rotation (you can see this in the Original Series episodes; it's not always the same guys there). Chekov "just happens" to be assigned one of the helm slots, probably because he shows exceptional promise- think of him as being as high-scoring in Russia as Kirk is in the US. That gives him the opportunity to distinguish himself as an effective junior officer, albeit one who badly needs to calm down.

Both Chekov and Sulu presumably wind up on the Enterprise because the Enterprise crew gets the highest-scoring cadets. My guess is that the ship had very few assigned officers (since it wasn't quite ready for its maiden voyage), and that they had to fill out the vast majority of the Table of Organization with Academy instructors and cadets.

I liked Kirks new history, It made sence seeing as he was now with out his father. I compare it to Sam Jacksion Nick Fury. The character's core is the same but the motives and personality are slightly changed in a way that does not harm him. It just makes him interesting in a new way.

Seconded.

The thing that did it was the romulens. No one new any thing about romulens at that time period. All they new was their lanquage was kinda similar to vulkan. This replaced the moment in time when the federation saw romulens for the fist time. But it was treated as if it wasn't any thing new. Along with the crap black hole plot, and the fact that Pike made a cadet that was one enter button away from being expelled from the academy first officer.

Pike may have made a bad decision, but remember that Kirk was the guy who just warned him that he was about to fly into an ambush. Moreover, I don't think Pike seriously expected Spock to wind up incapacitated in a situation that would leave Kirk in command. Depending on just how badly limited his supply of experienced officers was, he may not have had a better choice.

And as for seeing the Romulans, I think I have an explanation. After the attack on the USS Kelvin (carried out by Romulans), the Federation would know what Nero looked like, because of after action reports by surviving bridge crew from the Kelvin. Moreover, it's very likely that the Federation would press for an investigation within the Romulan Empire, Given what just happened to Kelvin, Starfleet desperately needed to know whether the Romulans had that level of capability in general, and whether they were planning a general attack.

The resulting full-court push to get more intelligence on and diplomatic contact with Romulus would leave the Federation at least a little better informed about Romulans than they were in the original timeline.
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The last plot hole is the romulen ship. Its a mining ship. Nero said so. he was doing his yellow hat construction job when the plot hit him. I dont care what year in the future you come from but a dump truck is a fugging dump truck. Even if it is a drill and back ho combination. I dont care if you take todays giant yellow tonka toy dump truck used in pit mines, and drag it back in time to fight a shermen tank. It's going to lose. It should not have torpedos. Not only this but the layout of the ship was obsurd. One big cavernous space that had mario plat forms for the decks. The whole thing was presuized! At least one of the Kelven's topedose would have breached the hull. End of movie.

I suspect that the Romulan ship has excellent shielding relative to 23rd century weapons (designed to survive large debris impacts or attacks from 24th century raiders); the Kelvin didn't even make a dent except by ramming.

As for those funny cluster missiles, we're not sure how capable they are relative to the ECM and shields of 24th century warships. They work great on the relatively primitive ships Starfleet has available... but the technology level of the 2480s is as far beyond that of the ships Starfleet has in the movie as those ships are beyond the first Enterprise (from the Enterprise TV series). It's no surprise that a large ship designed by the paranoid and militaristic Romulans (probably laid down about the time of the Dominion War) is fitted with weapons that can wipe out a whole fleet of 23rd century ships.
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I think it makes at least a reasonable amount of sense when the movie is treated as a standalone, even ignoring anything that may be in those comics.

[skywalker]

Man, I really liked this movie!

I think I'll address a couple of the arguments floating around:

1st, the CGI was pretty awesome, I was unaware I was watching CGI with the exception of the one female alien officer whose face was obviously computer generated. It was a lot better than ST:TMP.

2nd, I was pretty shocked by the mining vessel having massive torpedoes as well. However, Nero is the kind of guy whose first thought when his wife dies is "That guy didn't stop it, which he promised to do. Now this is all his fault, and he must die!" This seems like the kinda guy who might pack a little something extra to begin with. I was still pretty shocked at the size of that vessel. I mean, come on, it dwarfs the Kelvin, and is noticeably bigger than Enterprise... Starfleet ships didn't grow that much in 150 years, but apparently Romulan ships did. I know that Romulan Warbirds from "The Next Generation" were supposed to be bigger than that show's Enterprise, so I guess this thing is about right-sized...

3rd, On the subject of Sulu and race, I don't think it's such a big deal that he had a katana. In 1967, it was "oh, Japanese people use katanas, here George, have a katana." Today it's more like "Ok, the kids really like to see people using katanas, and a fencing foil is really not going to fit into this scene..."

Takei also said that he completely approved of a Korean playing Sulu, since in the original series, Sulu was meant to represent all of Asia. Sulu isn't even a Japanese name. It comes from the Sulu Sea, which is near the Philippines.

Man did I love Charlie Bartlett and his w's v's.

[ocato]

2nd, I was pretty shocked by the mining vessel having massive torpedoes as well. However, Nero is the kind of guy whose first thought when his wife dies is "That guy didn't stop it, which he promised to do. Now this is all his fault, and he must die!" This seems like the kinda guy who might pack a little something extra to begin with. I was still pretty shocked at the size of that vessel. I mean, come on, it dwarfs the Kelvin, and is noticeably bigger than Enterprise... Starfleet ships didn't grow that much in 150 years, but apparently Romulan ships did. I know that Romulan Warbirds from "The Next Generation" were supposed to be bigger than that show's Enterprise, so I guess this thing is about right-sized...

The way I see it, a mining ship like that has a few things in mind. Jerks might try to steal that which you have mined. Shoot them! Crazy Shrapnel Torpedoes possibly double in clearing large amounts of dirt in some way that might be advantageous when compared to photon torpedoes. Maybe they get a more efficient explosion spread or something? Also, the shape of the ship kind of suggested that it 'eats' asteroids or small moons (or drills into the sides of them, bring the surface into the ship and giving a portable atmosphere for miners). Of course, that's all random speculation and is probably crazy-talk.

[Joran]

its actually a cavalry saber.

who's the racist one now?

Lies and trickery!



Is that a fencing saber? BTW, did I miss the token "Oh my" from the new Sulu? New Sulu is obviously not as buff as Old Sulu.

3rd, On the subject of Sulu and race, I don't think it's such a big deal that he had a katana. In 1967, it was "oh, Japanese people use katanas, here George, have a katana." Today it's more like "Ok, the kids really like to see people using katanas, and a fencing foil is really not going to fit into this scene..."

Takei also said that he completely approved of a Korean playing Sulu, since in the original series, Sulu was meant to represent all of Asia. Sulu isn't even a Japanese name. It comes from the Sulu Sea, which is near the Philippines.

Wholeheartedly agree, that entire post was tongue in cheek :) Star Trek has a long and proud tradition of screwing up the ethnicity of the Asian crew members. Ensign Kim was played by a Chinese actor, Ensign Sato was played by a Korean actress, Keiko O'Brien was played by a Chinese actress. I don't mind actually, just like a Swedish actor will be called upon to play to play an Irishman, German, and Russian. An actor should be able to play a lot of different roles and different ethnicities.

Also, the word "fencing" has obviously changed in the future, because I'm not sure what kind of "fencing" that was =P

[Dervag]

2nd, I was pretty shocked by the mining vessel having massive torpedoes as well. However, Nero is the kind of guy whose first thought when his wife dies is "That guy didn't stop it, which he promised to do. Now this is all his fault, and he must die!" This seems like the kinda guy who might pack a little something extra to begin with. I was still pretty shocked at the size of that vessel. I mean, come on, it dwarfs the Kelvin, and is noticeably bigger than Enterprise... Starfleet ships didn't grow that much in 150 years, but apparently Romulan ships did. I know that Romulan Warbirds from "The Next Generation" were supposed to be bigger than that show's Enterprise, so I guess this thing is about right-sized...

Also, it's reasonable for a mining ship to be huge- it has to carry very large masses of dense cargo. That might also explain the open construction- metal or ore goes between all those big tentacle-looking structures, where it's easy to get at, and is held in place using tractors, force fields, or just big honking cables strung between the pylons. The design gives you plenty of easily accessible cargo volume while keeping the mass of the ship under control.

[Hawriel]

Dervag:

Good arguments. I've been thinking about some of that sence I last posted. I agree that even a mining vessal may have weapons. In Nero's time the Romulans, Cardasians, Klingons, Federation and Dominion all faught a huge war afew years befor this super nova. Piracy is most likely a problem again sence thoughs four nations fleets are still being rebuilt. And well it's a Romulan ship they are crazy backstabby any way. Proton torpedos (or what ever they where) still seem a bit much. Two small or med grade phaser or disrupter banks would seem more apropriat. I guess thats getting nitpicky.

Sence it is a mining ship. The things standard tractor beam emitters have to be powerfull. I dont question the large open hullspace eather. Thats whare small or cut pieces larger asteroids would be held for prossessing. I wouldnt be supprised of the ship had a refinery as well. Its the open crew space and oddly platformed decking that made go .

CGI.

The CGI was good. Even though I dont mind the style of Enterprises interior. I thought it was over done with the blinky, shiny and pinging. I could get a sence of the layout of the bridge, and engineering was a mess.

Ok the only CGI that bugged me was the two aliens. Why have CGI aliens when two extras in makup is better. Then you dont have to remember to stick the CGI alien in the back ground all the time. They forgot. Also why did they have to have new made up aliens? Whare the hell are the Andorians? They always get shafted. Other than on Enterprise.

PC police about asian actors? Who cares? So what if a Chines guy plays a Korian, or a Philipeno plays a Japanies character. How is this different from English playing French, Germens playing Scotts, or Irish playing a Russian.

[kpenguin]

I think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing here. It's not racism that's the problem, it's ageism! George Takei was 29 when he played Sulu on the original series, yet John Cho, who's playing a younger Sulu, is 36! They can't even get the ages right!

((The above post was tongue in cheek. Please do not consider it to be a serious one.))

[Hell Puppi]

Also, the word "fencing" has obviously changed in the future, because I'm not sure what kind of "fencing" that was =P

Yeah I was wondering about the flipping and stuff...

then I remembered the time my fencing instructor backflipped over a bush

It wasn't really 'traditional' fencing, but then again learning Olympic-style fencing and trying to use it in combat will most likely get you killed.

[reorith]

this would have made the movie even better.

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[Jimorian]

The CGI was good. Even though I dont mind the style of Enterprises interior. I thought it was over done with the blinky, shiny and pinging. I could get a sence of the layout of the bridge, and engineering was a mess.

Yeah, Engineering got a bit overblown. At one point I was all: "Are they running through a... brewery???"

Overall, though, I enjoyed it a lot, even with the nitpicks.