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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Doctor
    Doctor's may be found anywhere where a skilled healer is needed, The field medic a healer in the local hospital. They might all be doctors. Not all healing relies on magic and doctor's use purely more mundane means of healing.
    Adventuring
    Some doctors travel to help others. And some are taken in by adveturing parties. Healers are welcome in all places and adventuring allows for many possibilities an in the adventure their talent will never go to waste.
    Characteristics
    Doctors are great healers, but need no magic for such. They are usually very lacking offensively preferring to support and defend. They are mostly seen in the sidelines, their role more pronounced after the battle
    Alingment
    Though the career of a doctor goes naturally to good people exceptions do exist and while rare they are sometimes seen.
    Religion
    Doctors usually worship gods of healing, but generally religion isn't such a big part of their lives.
    Background
    Doctor's are made in many ways. For some it's the family job. For some it's a calling and some just want to help. Some might have seen epidemics and want to make sure it never happens again. The reasons to become a doctor are varied
    Races
    All races have need for those who can heal and thus Doctor's from most all races have them. Elven doctors for example might come from the fact that many elves are nature-centered bringing many good herbalists to being. Doctor's of mostly evil races are rare though as their nature generally doesn't have the disposition to heal and help.
    Other Classes
    Paladins do well wiht doctors due to their mostly good disposition. They rarely actually clash with members of other classes and tend to be flexible.
    Role
    The Doctor's role is greatest after the battle as he can cure any ailment or wound easily. She can also try to fire status ailment effects with a blowgun or buff allies with shots. Ultimately the Doctor's greatest asset is healing and keeping the party alive while not being all that powerful in actual combat
    Game Rule Information
    Doctors have the following game statistics
    Abilities
    Wisdom is important for doctors as it powers their key skill. Heal. Charisma also helps for some of their abilities
    Alingment
    Any

    HD: d6
    DOCTOR
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Booster Shot, Skill Focus: Heal

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Improved First Aid

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Shot

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Medical Alchemist, Psychiatrist

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Shot, Rapid First Aid

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Toxin to Antitoxin

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Self Sufficient

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Shot

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Improved Medical Alchemist

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Accomplished Psychiatrist

    11th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Shot

    12th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Heal Ability Drain

    13th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Greater Medical Alchemist

    14th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Shot

    15th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Revification

    16th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Superb Psychiatrist

    17th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Shot

    18th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Supreme Medical Alchemist

    19th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |

    20th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Shot, Miraculous Healing[/table]

    Class Skills: A doctor's class skills (an the key ability of each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge: Local (Int), Knowledge: Nature (Int), Survival (Wis)
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifer) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Weapon and Armor Profiency: The doctor is profient with light shields and bucklers and light armor. They are also proficient with quarterstaves, darts, blowguns and daggers

    Shot (Ex)
    Doctors can inject chemicals and catalysts into people. This can have varying effects.
    As a full round action with a DC 16 heal check, a doctor may inject any shot she has learned provided she has injection needles and a chemical pouch with the needed materials. This ability has no effect on undead, oozes, constructs, outsiders (except monks), and aberrations. A creature may only be affected by one shot at a time. A doctor learns the booster shot at level 1. In addition she lears a new shot at 3rd, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 20th levels. Shots may be given forcibly to a pinned opponent. Injection needles may be used as blowgun darts.

    Booster Shot (automatic lvl 1)
    By injecting a creature with the booster shot the recipient gains immunity to disease for 24 hours.

    Adrenaline Shot
    By injecting a creature with the adrenaline shot the recipient gains +4 strenght for 1 minute

    Pain Killers
    By injecting a creature with pain killers the recipient gains immunity to pain effects for 1 minute

    Sleepers
    By injecting a creature with sleeperss the recipient falls asleep for 8 hours. DC 20 will save to resist.

    Regenerative Agents
    By injecting a creature with regenerative agents the recipient gains fast healing 2 for 1 minute

    Endurance Shot
    By injecting a creature with the endurance shot the recipient gains +4 constitution for 1 minute

    Poison Injection
    A doctor may apply poison into an injection needle. Using it thusly has no risk of self poisoning.

    Temporary Growth Hormones
    By injecting a creature with temporary growth hormones the recipient gains powerful build for 24 hours

    Caffeine Injection
    By injecting a creature with the caffeine injectiont the recipient loses all fatigue and exhaustion effects for 8 hours at which time they come back like they were before the injection unless the recipient has rested for sufficient time during the period.

    Skill Focus: Heal
    The Doctor gains Skill Focus: Heal as a bonus feat.

    Improved First Aid (Ex)
    When giving first aid the doctor heals an amount of hp equal to her class level+ Wisdom modifier
    At 5th level the doctor may give first aid as an immediate action.

    Medical Alchemist (Ex)
    An accomplished doctor does not need magic to create elixirs with miraculous healing capabilities.
    With a healer's kit, an alchemist's kit and 10 gp's worth of rare herbs that can also be gathered with a DC 25 survival check in forest environments the doctor may create a nonmagical potion of cure light wounds in 8 hours, At 9th level she may create potions of cure moderate wounds. At level 13 she may create potions of cure serious wounds. At level 18 she may create potions of cure critical wounds.

    Psychiatrist(Ex)
    A doctor is not only a healer of the body, but also that of the mind.
    A doctor gains a +4 on any diplomacy check made to calm someone.
    At tenth level if the doctor wills it she may affect anyone she is talking with a Calm Emotions effect. the save DC is equal to 10 + half the doctor's class level + Cha mod. The effect is broken when the doctor stops talking calmingly and the doctor must be in front of the subject for that time.
    At 16th level the doctor may snap someone out of a confusion or fear effect with a full round action by making an opposed Cha check with the caster. She must be in front of the affected for this to work.


    Toxin to Antitoxin (Ex)
    Most poisons can be studied to find the means to counter them
    To attempt this the doctor needs a sample of the poison. Any amount will do. Even leftovers from a wound. She may then, provided she has a healer's kit and an alchemist's kit. Make a dc 30 Heal check to make the antitoxin for the poison which when drunk will cure the poison completely. Making the antitoxin takes 4 hours.

    Self Sufficient
    The doctor gains Self Sufficient as a bonus feat.

    Heal Ability Drain (Ex)
    Accomplished doctors have the ability to cure damage that would otherwise last a lifetime.
    The doctor may treat ability drain the same way she could treat ability damage.

    Revification (Ex)
    If the soul has not left yet, then accomplished doctors can restart the vessel and bring people back from the dead.
    If the patient died less than 10 minutes ago, the doctor may use two full round actions along with a DC 40 heal check to revive the deceased person provided the body has been treated to what would be positive hit points and is whole enough to live. This does not bestow any penalties on either the doctor or the raisee.

    Miraculous Healing (Ex)
    The doctor has reached the pinnacle of her trade.
    The doctor may take 10 on a heal check while rushed or threatened and when not in these conditions, can take 12 in all heal checks except the Revification ability.


    Items

    Needle Packet
    This packet is packed with everything needed to give injections along with items to keep the needles clean
    Weight: 1lb
    Cost: 1gp

    Chemical Pouch
    This pouch is made up of multiple mini pouches to keep small amounts of chemicals stored seperately
    Weight: 2lb
    Cost: 5gp

    Seem good. I tried to make an effective nonmagical healing class. Also what do you think about it's mechanical power? I'm not really sure it's hard to compare it to anything
    Last edited by Frog Dragon; 2009-05-18 at 08:27 AM.
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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    the problem with skill based classes is that in most cases, they are either severely underclassed [such as the truenamer], or they can be broken VERY easily [also the truenamer]. however, i like that your class does improve the functionality of the Heal skill.

    two things i would like to ask:

    can you italicize the shots? i was trying to read them, and it took me a little while to find the difference between them and the Skill Focus [Heal] bonus feat.

    also, i was wondering if you planned on giving them a bonus based on class levels besides that of the Skill Focus, or the other bonus feat. i would think that a Doctor would be a better healer than someone who just put a few feats and ranks into it.
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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    A good class, it could be very useful to PCs in a campaign or area with limited or no magic. Also, perfect for NPCs, since mages are not very common among them.

    Do you get to choose which shots you get at which levels, or will there be an order in which you learn them?

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    unosarta: Italiced. And the doctor does have a unique advantage. Improved first aid is one. I was thinking of giving it a level based bonus, but couldn't figure out how to make it work so I gave it Imp. First aid instead.

    Vorpal Word: Yes you can learn shots in whatever order you want except for the Booster Shot which is automatic at level 1
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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Wouldnt this class be more balanced if it was either tougher or had all good saves?

    Or perhaps the ability to inject unwilling but non-pinned targets with a touch attack that recieves a moderate penalty?

    Im trying to make an old-west sorta DnD and this class is perfect to replace the cleric as healer.

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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    This is a pretty cool class--I have to ask, though, is anyone going to play it? People can be wary of playing clerics, even though they get armor proficiency and okay BAB and awesome spells.
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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    This class is far, far too weak. The skill based class thing is a novel idea, but it shrivels into uselessness later on. It's a class for NPCs that don't go on adventures, since their abilities aren't competitive against encounters of their level, and their shots are pretty unbalanced (going both ways).

    Shot:
    Booster Shot (automatic lvl 1)
    By injecting a creature with the booster shot the recipient gains immunity to disease for 24 hours.
    Immunity for everyone at level 1?

    Adrenaline Shot
    By injecting a creature with the adrenaline shot the recipient gains +4 strenght for 1 minute

    Endurance Shot
    By injecting a creature with the endurance shot the recipient gains +4 constitution for 1 minute
    Sounds amazing at level 1, but at level 5 onward? Not worth it. It doesn't scale with level, even if it does stack!

    Pain Killers
    By injecting a creature with pain killers the recipient gains immunity to pain effects for 1 minute
    Useless for all but a few abilities. Not worth taking compared to the other shots.

    Sleepers
    By injecting a creature with sleeperss the recipient falls asleep for 8 hours. DC 20 will save to resist.
    8 hours is far too long, and the DC doesn't scale. Make it just "fall asleep", and DC10+1/2class level+Doctor's Wis mod.

    Regenerative Agents
    By injecting a creature with regenerative agents the recipient gains fast healing 2 for 1 minute
    Infinite healing! :D But seriously, that's 20hp. It's either useless or infinite.

    Poison Injection
    A doctor may apply poison into an injection needle. Using it thusly has no risk of self poisoning.
    He still has to buy it? Aw.

    Temporary Growth Hormones
    By injecting a creature with temporary growth hormones the recipient gains powerful build for 24 hours
    With no drawback? Let's all hulk out since it lasts so long, and reapply it when we need to use that fast healing.

    Caffeine Injection
    By injecting a creature with the caffeine injectiont the recipient loses all fatigue and exhaustion effects for 8 hours at which time they come back like they were before the injection unless the recipient has rested for sufficient time during the period.
    Shouldn't someone who's just come off a caffeine high be worse off than before? And again, it's too long a time.

    I think the main problem I have with this class feature is that the shots don't scale, and they're all "on equal footing" as you level up. Wish isn't the same level as Magic Missile, and Time Stands Still isn't Twin Wolf Strike, so why should your higher level options be the same as your lower level options? A high level Doctor should be able to routinely perform deeds that are superhuman, not the same thing that they did at level 1 but more of it. They should be able to take people apart and put them back together efficiently as a god.

    Also, some of the other abilities are a little strange, too:

    Toxin to Antitoxin (Ex)
    Most poisons can be studied to find the means to counter them
    To attempt this the doctor needs a sample of the poison. Any amount will do. Even leftovers from a wound. She may then, provided she has a healer's kit and an alchemist's kit. Make a dc 30 Heal check to make the antitoxin for the poison which when drunk will cure the poison completely. Making the antitoxin takes 4 hours.
    When you need the antitoxin, the poison is likely to be already killing the patient. Poisons work in minutes, not hours! They'd already be dead by the time you've made it. Better to just cast Neutralise Poison. Also, why is it a DC30 for all poisons? Why doesn't it correspond to the potency of the poison?

    Revification (Ex)
    If the soul has not left yet, then accomplished doctors can restart the vessel and bring people back from the dead.
    If the patient died less than 10 minutes ago, the doctor may use two full round actions along with a DC 40 heal check to revive the deceased person provided the body has been treated to what would be positive hit points and is whole enough to live. This does not bestow any penalties on either the doctor or the raisee.
    Infinite healing and infinite ressurrections. DC40 is trivial to hit at that level.

    This class also receives Self Sufficient as a bonus feat at level 6. It's pretty useless at level 1, at level 6 it's just a wasted level.

    And the capstone is horrifying. While wizards are reshaping reality (Wish), clerics kicking major booty with their god's direct will (Miracle), crusaders becoming practically immune to hit point damage (Immortal Fortitude)... the Doctor can take 10 on heal checks in stressful situations.

    Is this what Doctors aspire to? Is it? Don't get me wrong, I love the class - it's just playing in the shallow end of the adventurer's pool, even at level 20. It's balanced against fighting goblins and kobolds rather than Xyryxyx, Vowelless Horror From Beyond, or Yithdarstrix, Great Wyrm. 1st level thinking doesn't work for all 20 levels.

    Personally, I think these shots (the best part of this class, it's a really great idea) would work better as a few feats and some magical equipment. So anyone could be a doctor, regardless of what their adventuring modus operandum is. But whatever you do, make it scale with levels so the player can feel useful and fulfilling in a time when heroes and being heroes.

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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Saw this thread and thought I'd post this in here
    These are the basics of a class I'm designing for a low/no magic campaign feel free to steal what you want and any comments on it would be apreciated

    These are rough notes it hasn't been finished yet

    Apothicarian


    Bard/rouge attacks, cleric healing
    D6 HD

    Sneak attack
    6 skill points midway b/w the base classes

    Class skills
    Concentration, craft, diplomacy, heal, listen, profession, spellcraft,
    knowledge


    Acupuncture - heals 4d6 30% of the time, deals 1d4 40% does nothing 30%
    Bloodletting - heals all status effects 60% always deals 2d4
    Leeches - 1 hour, heals 2d6
    Tourniquet - slow death death roles every 2 rounds?
    Bandage - heals 1d6 / speeds natural healing
    Anaesthesia - forced sleep 1 hour no wake, heal at 3x normal
    Amputation - full heal, permanent loss of limb, permanent ¾ health
    Cauterising - better than tourniquet

    Owls wisdom -
    Bears strength -

    0th level
    Distil water - 2 gallons/level provided there is some moisture available
    Clean wounds – heals 1hp
    Detect poison – 3 rounds
    Guidance - +1 on one attack roll, saving throw or skill check
    Phosphorescent Light – you know how to combine chemicals to give of light to the equivalent of a torch
    Mending - a life of making do with what you have has left you with the ability to repair what you need to
    Purify food/drink - common compounds can be used to make food safe to consume
    Resistance -
    Virtue -

    1st level
    Bane - -1 attack rolls and saves
    Bless - +1 attack rolls and saves

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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Science in a D&D setting? Extreme blasphemy.

    Science is a little too mundane and unknown to be of any use whatsoever. Also nobody's ever heard of injections. Chances are they will:

    A. Condone the doctor as a witch.

    B. Blow off the doctor since actual magic is far more convenient.

    It has no roleplaying potential whatsoever (and that's saying something).

    ------
    But to make the doctor more convenient, have him specialize in all forms of science. At least that could be roleplayed. Say, he came from a nation that is currently going through an 'age of reason' (scientific revolution in real life earth)?

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Oh, a doctor 'doctor'.

    *Puts up sonic screwdriver*

    Seriously though, I'm impressed with your work. I hope you build on it in the future.
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    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Khatoblepas
    Good points. I'm going to need to work on this later. (Don't have the time now.)
    I was a bit worried about the scaling. Maybe I need to power up some shots and smack em with a level requirement?
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    Default Paging Doctor Peach

    This class is pretty interesting, but I agree that it could use some restructuring. Right now, in both flavor and mechanics, the Doctor somewhat resembles the existing mundane healer of D&D: an expert with the Heal and Alchemy skills. I also note that some of the drugs and procedures seem like they would belong in D20 modern, where creating and administering them would again be represented as skill checks.

    There exists a magical 'healer' class that already fits the niche for a straight-up medic, and an artificer that can make and administer all manner of crazy potions. Our doctor may need to find an extra direction to help set himself apart. You already have it set that he is, unlike these, mundane - that's a good start, but it makes many of the abilities of the class seem pretty silly, since they're still light on explanation. Perhaps if you were to nail down HOW he does what he does, and the rest would follow.

    The Apothecarian's Rogue-ish-ness
    I like some aspects of the Generic Archer's Apothecarian, and think that we can apply it and even merge the two concepts somewhat. The most interesting thing that I take away from the Apothecarian is a Sneak Attack - perhaps our doctor has so dedicated himself to the study of living creatures that he knows exactly where to aim to shut them down, if only they would hold still for a second. Take it a step further, and you could let him use a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage at no penalty, or to do some kind of ability damage. You can also give our doctor the opportunity to specialize in the study of a certain category of creatures, and now you've got a variant of the Ranger's Favored Enemy feature.

    Say, this is starting to sound more like a rogue than a typical healer-type class would. Pretty interesting now, isn't it? They should probably get the Use Magic Device class skill, too. Skill mastery for the heal skill can show up at what might otherwise seem to be a ridiculously low level - perhaps even FIRST level - since it's already balanced out by the fact that a 1st-level cleric can already stabilize somebody without trying very hard.

    The Wizard's Brainiac-itude
    Obviously, the doctor's crazy chemistry set should remain a core part of the class. To represent this, I would let a Doctor have the alchemy skill despite being mundane, and put down the various injections as special substances and treatments that only doctors of a certain level can understand. Perhaps you could model them after Bardic music, using the heal skill instead of perform as a prerequisite. Though, you might just want to stipulate that Skill Mastery only applies to NORMAL uses of the skill, rather than these weird advanced ones.

    A doctor, being the studious sort, should have all knowledge skills as class skills. He could also have a special Medical Knowledge feature, a little like Bardic Knowledge, that offers an amazing ability to diagnose illnesses, curses, and other problems of all kinds like a true cinematic or fantastical doctor. 'This man hasn't suffered head trauma... he's a victim of MIND CONTROL!' Well, that or it's Lupus.

    A Doctor should also get survival as a class skill. It seems odd, but they can know about all kinds of environmental maladies, which survival strategies work, which don't, and why. Besides, if the skill doesn't suit one's character, one doesn't HAVE to take it. The same could go for animal handling (for a veterinarian) and for bluff/diplomacy/sense motive (for a crack psychologist).

    At higher levels, a studious doctor may eventually learn to work his non-magic on creatures that he normally couldn't. Nonhumanoid party members need treatment sometimes, too.

    As one more little touch, a Doctor should get Poison Use at some point in the progression.

    A Cleric's Dedication-without-a-suffix
    A Doctor, first and foremost, is around to heal people. As such, they need to be able to heal all kinds of ailments using their extraordinary abilities.

    This is a pretty tall order. Stitching up injuries to heal some HP or ability damage isn't too surprising, granted, but many of the results seem more like amazing feats of a Monk than the work of a simple expert, especially when one performs them on the fly in combat. At some point, you have to wonder why the Doctor didn't just become a Cleric or Archivist or whatever.

    Is his community afraid of magic? Perhaps the ability to dispel magical curses or quickly undo a death effect would be appropriate. Did she pick up the class in a setting-appropriate low-mana area? Perhaps the ability to scrounge up healing magic in other ways would do the trick. Or maybe this doctor is just not all that religious and avoids using magic just to be contrary, like Roy, in which case a monk-like supernaturalness isn't all that bad.

    In Conclusion
    I type really long, occasionally insulting, usually boring and often pointless passages when I'm tired. I apologize.

    I'll see if I can incorporate all of this into a new prototype for you guys if nobody beats me to it.
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    Default Re: Paging Doctor Peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Gunsforhands View Post

    The Apothecarian's Rogue-ish-ness
    I like some aspects of the Generic Archer's Apothecarian, and think that we can apply it and even merge the two concepts somewhat. The most interesting thing that I take away from the Apothecarian is a Sneak Attack - perhaps our doctor has so dedicatedhimself to the study of living creatures that he knows exactly where to aim to shut them down, if only they would hold still for a second. Take it a step further, and you could let him use a lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage at no penalty, or to do some kind of ability damage. You can also give our doctor the opportunity to specialize in the study of a certain category of creatures, and now you've got a variant of the Ranger's Favored Enemy feature.

    Say, this is starting to sound more like a rogue than a typical healer-type class would. Pretty interesting now, isn't it? They should probably get the Use Magic Device class skill, too. Skill mastery for the heal skill can show up at what might otherwise seem to be a ridiculously low level - perhaps even FIRST level - since it's already balanced out by the fact that a 1st-level cleric can already stabilize somebody without trying very hard.
    The setting that this is being created for was low/no magic, ie. low magic that is actually achieved through alchemy. Steampunk set in 1700s using dnd 3.5 mechanics.
    the concept was for a gritty realistic game where this was the only useful source of healing. It is mostly a cleric cross rouge class with the parts of each that fit the concept kept, to make an effective fighter and a reasonable heal bot.
    Use magic device is kind of pointless for me, but a use gadget or something could work.


    Dane

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    Feb 2009

    Default Re: The Doctor (D&D 3.5 Base Class) Peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog Dragon View Post
    Khatoblepas
    Good points. I'm going to need to work on this later. (Don't have the time now.)
    I was a bit worried about the scaling. Maybe I need to power up some shots and smack em with a level requirement?
    I agree with Khatoblepas. I'm not an expert on balance, but it only makes sense that without scaling, any ability that is balanced at 1st level is useless at 20th level, and vice versa. They definitely need some scaling, either in duration (fast healing 2 for 1 min/lvl) or in effect (fast healing 1/lvl for 1 min).

    Also, a decent balance would be to give the doctor's concoctions costly material components. This would partially alleviate the problem of infinite shots that Khateblepas pointed out, as well as give you a way to power up shots without adding a level requirement (Sure, you can take that uber-powerful shot at 3rd level. But can your 3rd party group cough up the 100gp per shot cost...?).
    Homebrews - Feel free to use or comment!


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