Twilight - Love it, or Hate it?

[bucketdm]

Here is a hilariously funny spoof: http://therestofyourmice.blogspot.co...le-either.html

[Primal Fury]

Here is a hilariously funny spoof: http://therestofyourmice.blogspot.co...le-either.html

That was friggin' awesome.

I know someone else said it, but I believe it needs repeating: You know a book sucks when it is inferior to it's own fanfiction. This also would have made a better movie.

[Ranna]

oh haha I got told this thread existed and thought I HAD to come and write on it,

I aint gonna say anything about the books I am not intelligent to decide what makes a good book or a bad book I just go off what I enjoy and I really enjoyed the series.

Why?!

Well because I thouht they were HILARIOUS! - even better, they were not supposed to be. All that serious emo stuff makes me giggle and so I thought the books were really good because I was able to giggle at them all the way through.


Plus I got to break some of my students hearts when I told them that someone like Edward simply doesn't exist cos no matter what, all men fart and thats something they'll just have to accept.

[lisiecki]

ya know

This is just me.

All the comments about how Twilight is a bad series because of the abusive relationship.

Im reminded of all the times in the late 90s when grown women commented on how sexy tony soprano is...

Caus hes the poster boy for having healthy relationships

And yet, no one said the Sopranos was a badly show.


I just find it amazing that on a message board dedicated to D&D people are talking about how badly written the show is.

I must be the only person who reads the novels they put out...

I can't think of a well written one since the last Lord Soth Ravenloft book

[Serpentine]

Was The Sopranos a teenage romance, or a gritty crime drama? The focus and received/perceived/intended messages are gonna be a touch different.

[lisiecki]

Was The Sopranos a teenage romance, or a gritty crime drama? The focus and received/perceived/intended messages are gonna be a touch different.

That having your paramour watch you while you sleep is a bad thing
but beating the pretty off your Russian mistress with a lamp is a symbol of love?

:P

No no i get your point
But still, Twlight is no worse than Dark Elf Novel #243434 or Star Wars: Jedi Beach Party: Paint the Line.

No better
But no worse

[Finn Solomon]

That having your paramour watch you while you sleep is a bad thing
but beating the pretty off your Russian mistress with a lamp is a symbol of love?

:P

No no i get your point
But still, Twlight is no worse than Dark Elf Novel #243434

Sure, but nobody cares about Dark Elf Novel. Or Jedi Beach whatever.

[Fan]

That having your paramour watch you while you sleep is a bad thing
but beating the pretty off your Russian mistress with a lamp is a symbol of love?

Except it wasn't intended to be seen as a LOVING action when he did it. It was intended as RAGE, The Sopranos wasn't the best of shows IMO, but at least it stayed true to its theme, and gave its protaganist 1 constant personailty.

[lisiecki]

Sure, but nobody cares about Dark Elf Novel.

Wow...

No one is buying ALOT of copy's to get it on the NY Times best seller list

[Serpentine]

Was the intended message of that scene/episode that "beating the pretty off your Russian mistress with a lamp" is a good, romantic thing, or the act of an angry, damaged, ruthless man? I haven't seen it, so you'll have to tell me. I haven't read the books, either, but from what I've heard it is saying that creeping into someone's room at night and watching them sleep is a good, romantic thing, not creepy, stalkerish, and a sign of a very sick relationship.
Also, the only D&D books I've read were a couple of Ravenloft ones, and that was before I even knew about D&D. Regarding the rest of them, I have heard pretty mixed opinions on them. Start a thread if you're curious.
Oh, and one book being also bad doesn't make another any better.

[lisiecki]

Except it wasn't intended to be seen as a LOVING action when he did it. It was intended as RAGE, The Sopranos wasn't the best of shows IMO, but at least it stayed true to its theme, and gave its protaganist 1 constant personailty.

Yes, but there were still comments made and written by adult women about how sexy Tony was.

I'm not a therapist, but I can at least see how some romantic undertones projected on to being watched while you sleep.

Describing a man who performs an act where there is no way to describe it BUT RAGE. Honestly that seems ALOT more unhealthy to me.

[Finn Solomon]

Wow...

No one is buying ALOT of copy's to get it on the NY Times best seller list

You find me the cult of Dark Elfers creating trillions of gigabytes of abhorrent fanfiction and disgusting fanart, then we'll talk.

Or better yet, don't. *shudder*

[Fan]

Yes, but there were still comments made and written by adult women about how sexy Tony was.

I'm not a therapist, but I can at least see how some romantic undertones projected on to being watched while you sleep.

Describing a man who performs an act where there is no way to describe it BUT RAGE. Honestly that seems ALOT more unhealthy to me.

Welcome to the internet kid, we have derranged people, sick fanfiction, and a cess pit known as 4chan. People are weird here, and they think people who aren't being sexy at the time ARE.
This isn't meant to be patronizing in anyways, more of a joke really, I apologize if it offends anyone, as it was not meant to. >.>

[lisiecki]

Was the intended message of that scene/episode that "beating the pretty off your Russian mistress with a lamp" is a good, romantic thing, or the act of an angry, damaged, ruthless man? I haven't seen it, so you'll have to tell me.

It was Tony in one of his many depressions.
I admit, it WAS angry, damaged and ruthless.
Thus my confusion as to why there were so many comments about how Tony was the sexy back in the late 90s early 00's

I haven't read the books, either, but from what I've heard it is saying that creeping into someone's room at night and watching them sleep is a good, romantic thing, not creepy, stalkerish, and a sign of a very sick relationship.

Again, I agree. To paraphrase your later comment, one being unhealthy dosn't make the other any more healthy. The comment is intended as "Why dose that event make Twlight a poorly written book, but not make the Sapranos a poorly written show"

Also, the only D&D books I've read were a couple of Ravenloft ones, and that was before I even knew about D&D.

I have a love for the Ravenloft books, but Jander Sunstar is a vampire, and its directly pointed out that he sparkles.

Regarding the rest of them, I have heard pretty mixed opinions on them. Start a thread if you're curious. Oh, and one book being also bad doesn't make another any better.

There like anything else, some are good (ravenloft, early dragonlance, ect) some are poopy.

I'm not saying that A being bad, makes B better, I'm just curious why when people point out D and D books they don't say they hate them for the same reasions they say they hate twlight (Marry Sues, Sparkle vampires, abusive relationships) Hell, Ann Rice's vampires have all three

[Flickerdart]

The only good thing that came of twilight is our very own Ninjamuffin's MST3K of it.

[lisiecki]

This isn't meant to be patronizing in anyways, more of a joke really, I apologize if it offends anyone, as it was not meant to. >.>

Not to worry, I have a sence of humour about message board posts for the most part. I realize i was getting FAR to serious about this topic a few days ago, that's why i took some time off.

While i DID enjoy Twilight, I realise that its "read the book on the beach" fiction and not something to get worked up about. :P

You find me the cult of Dark Elfers creating trillions of gigabytes of abhorrent fanfiction and disgusting fanart, then we'll talk.

Im fairly sure that drizzt du urden is where horrible fan fiction and disgusting fan art began

[Fan]

Not to worry, I have a sence of humour about message board posts for the most part. I realize i was getting FAR to serious about this topic a few days ago, that's why i took some time off.

While i DID enjoy Twilight, I realise that its "read the book on the beach" fiction and not something to get worked up about. :P



Im fairly sure that drizzt du urden is where horrible fan fiction and disgusting fan art began

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! Oh, that bolded part is a GOOD one. Fan art, and Fan fiction has been around since BOOKS have been around. People enjoy putting their own spin on things no matter how bad their writing is. Same goes for art really, but it's advent really came about at the rise of the internet.

[Serpentine]

Okay, I think I get your issue now. You're wondering why one guy who behaves badly and has incredibly unhealthy relationships is considered the makings of a bad book, while another guy who behaves badly and has incredibly unhealthy relationships is considered sexy? Okay, a few things.
1. Lots of people think that Edward is sexy. Mostly teenage girls.
2. The relative sexiness of the characters is not what makes an item good or bad. The positive portrayal of bad relationships as part of a sweeping teenage romance in Twilight is just part of what makes it bad. The Sopranos (to my understanding) portrays bad relationships negatively, as part of the grittiness and characterisation of the show. Their respective sexiness has little to nothing to do with the portrayal of these relationships.
3. I don't think many of the people who think the Sopranos character is sexy would consider having a relationship with him, because (I believe) it is made very clear that he is very bad at relationships. They like his looks/character/body/whatever, not his relationship potential. Edward, on the other hand, has people dreaming about their "perfect man/relationship" based on the Twilight books, because these books depict this sort of person and relationship as healthy, romantic and fulfilling.

Does that explain it somewhat?

[lisiecki]

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAA! Oh, that bolded part is a GOOD one. Fan art, and Fan fiction has been around since BOOKS have been around. People enjoy putting their own spin on things no matter how bad their writing is. Same goes for art really, but it's advent really came about at the rise of the internet.

Hmm im not sure if your laughing with me or at me there.
But, i mean darn, there is ALOT of god awful drizzt fan art/fic out there.

I know it didnt START with him, but before Harry Potter it was what i stumbled upon the most.

Okay, I think I get your issue now. You're wondering why one guy who behaves badly and has incredibly unhealthy relationships is considered the makings of a bad book, while another guy who behaves badly and has incredibly unhealthy relationships is considered sexy? Okay, a few things.

Cool. I realize i may not have been expressing my self in the most goodst way ever.

1. Lots of people think that Edward is sexy. Mostly teenage girls.

True, but teenage girls are morons.
On the other hand, teenage boys are also idiots.

2. The relative sexiness of the characters is not what makes an item good or bad. The positive portrayal of bad relationships in Twilight is just part of what makes it bad. The Sopranos (to my understanding) portrays bad relationships negatively, as part of the grittiness and characterisation of the show. Their respective sexiness has little to nothing to do with the portrayal of these characters.

Still, I can see WHERE the potential for an "isn't that sweet" relationship comes from, starting were Edward punches a truck that's about to run her over.

You are correct, the Sopranos (For the most part) potrays the bad relationships as bad relationships. But even in the healthiest relationship (IMO) between Christopher and Adraina, Christopher is still controlling and verbally abusive, although Adraina is no better.

3. I don't think many of the people who think the Sopranos character is sexy would consider having a relationship with him, because (I believe) it is made very clear that he is very bad at relationships. They like his looks/character/body/whatever, not his relationship potential. Edward, on the other hand, has people dreaming about their "perfect man/relationship" based on the Twilight books, because these books depict this sort of person and relationship as healthy, romantic and fulfilling.

For the most part of what i remember the majority of the articles that i read focused on the "Tony is so powerful and in control, hes the type of man that can keep you safe" type logic.

(I realize that this is NOT the attitude of most women, and I won't pretend that it is)

This is also at least one of the things that attracts Isabella to Edward.

Now, the Soprano's is a much more "Realistic" world (well i think, in addition to not being a therapist im also not a mafioso)


_____________________EDIT BELOW___________________________
There are many parallels, the difference being that later on in the series Tony (the main character of the Sopranos) shows FAR more development than Edward, and in general its better written
The most disturbing aspect is that Tony is much more callous about it.
At least his relationship with his mistress in the first season, hes verbally and physically abusive, its not untill later in the series that he understands this behavior is wrong and attempts to correct himself, if one were to watch only the first season (when these articles began) then it hast to, IMO be just as bad, if not worse

[Trizap]

True, but teenage girls are morons.
On the other hand, teenage boys are also idiots.

I'm 16 and I hate both Twilight and The Inheritance cycle, don't generalize.

[lisiecki]

I'm 16 and I hate both Twilight and The Inheritance cycle, don't generalize.

LOL fair enough

how about "Plenty of teenage girls are idiots, plenty of teenage boys are idiots, lord knows i was"

Still, what does part A have to do with part B?

[Serpentine]

I'm 16 and I hate both Twilight and The Inheritance cycle, don't generalize.

In ten years you'll look back on yourself and think, "Damn, I was a moron"

lisiecki: As I alluded to, even if you're right (and I am starting to see a more convincing argument), that bad relationship is only a part - albeit a pretty major part - of why people dislike Twilight. The next most common complaint is that it's badly written. Can you say the same about The Sopranos?

[lisiecki]

In ten years you'll look back on yourself and think, "Damn, I was a moron"

lisiecki: As I alluded to, even if you're right (and I am starting to see a more convincing argument), that bad relationship is only a part - albeit a pretty major part - of why people dislike Twilight. The next most common complaint is that it's badly written. Can you say the same about The Sopranos?

Unfortunately I can not, (or fortunately i can not) The Sopranos is, for the most part a very well written show. Then again I'm a sucker for crime/mafia media.

The parallel that I'm most curious about is the way people compare Twilight to the Ann Rice vampire novels.

There are even MORE aspecsts that are simmiler between these and Twilight.

Lestats century of being abusive to Louis in every way possible.
Its full of "Mary Sues" (I hate that term, it seems like these days everyone uses it for any character they don't like)
AND the most famous shiny vampires ever.

While i don't pretend to know your opinion on this, it has been used as an example as "Vampire books that are better than twilight"

And yes, IMHO those are poorly written

[Trizap]

In ten years you'll look back on yourself and think, "Damn, I was a moron"

lisiecki: As I alluded to, even if you're right (and I am starting to see a more convincing argument), that bad relationship is only a part - albeit a pretty major part - of why people dislike Twilight. The next most common complaint is that it's badly written. Can you say the same about The Sopranos?

...........that hurt..........but you'll do the same when your ten years older to.........actually I think everyone does that, so you have no right to tease.

[mangosta71]

I've also heard that there's no character development in Twilight. Btw, I have my own theory as to why Edward can't hear any thoughts coming from Bella. >.>

[Fin]

I've also heard that there's no character development in Twilight.

That because the author thinks the characters are perfect! So, there is no room for them to develop, unless they become super perfect?

[Parlity]

Unfortunately I can not, (or fortunately i can not) The Sopranos is, for the most part a very well written show. Then again I'm a sucker for crime/mafia media.

The parallel that I'm most curious about is the way people compare Twilight to the Ann Rice vampire novels.

There are even MORE aspecsts that are simmiler between these and Twilight.

Lestats century of being abusive to Louis in every way possible.
Its full of "Mary Sues" (I hate that term, it seems like these days everyone uses it for any character they don't like)
AND the most famous shiny vampires ever.

While i don't pretend to know your opinion on this, it has been used as an example as "Vampire books that are better than twilight"

And yes, IMHO those are poorly written

The Vampire Lestat was much worse than Twilight in the quality of writing. The entire book was stilted and barely readable. There's good and bad Ravenloft and other D&D novels. I gave up reading them unless I see a lot of hype about a book and people claiming it's the best ever, then it might be worth a read. They're easy to read, but too easy. I can predict the flow of the entire novel from reading the first chapter or pages. Many of them don't try to do anything as a novel except pass your time.

However, you can't make a comparison of the writing in the books for people saying that this book is better. Many of the people commenting negatively have not read Twilight. They're not comparing the book.

As for reasons that I can think of for the excessive negative reaction to it:

First, Twilight is blatantly Mary Sue. Most authors who tend be Mary Sue try to restrain themselves and keep the novel more plausible.

A second thing that jumps out is that it's a romance novel. Many romance novels are illogical, wish-fulfillment books and promote abusive relationships with psychopaths.

In the Harry Potter novels, the characters act like plausible people. Twilight promotes abusive relationships, bad values, and immorality with a warped, Mary Sue way of thinking. I think the reason there are anti-Harry Potter groups (and no anti-Twilight groups that I've heard of) is immature people who don't want to think that other people are living beings, actions have consequences or whatever. Twilight is ridiculously immature and delusional when viewed from the outside (without tacitly accepting the book's premise as you would when you choose to read a novel).

Combining the previous comparison with Harry Potter and fans (or advertising) claiming that Twilight is better than Harry Potter and the best books ever written and such, and I can see why people react against Twilight without reading the books.

[Primal Fury]

Btw, I have my own theory as to why Edward can't hear any thoughts coming from Bella. >.>

Let me guess, is it because there's nothing to hear? ZING!

[snoopy13a]

You are correct, the Sopranos (For the most part) potrays the bad relationships as bad relationships. But even in the healthiest relationship (IMO) between Christopher and Adraina, Christopher is still controlling and verbally abusive, although Adraina is no better.

Doesn't Christopher consent to having Adraina murdered? Not that healthy

I'd say the healthiest relationship in the Sopranos (and perhaps the only healthy one) was between Bobby Bacala and his wife (who dies in a car accident).

[Serpentine]

...........that hurt..........but you'll do the same when your ten years older to.........actually I think everyone does that, so you have no right to tease.

Of course I will. Everyone does. But teenagers are a special type of moron And everyone is one sometime *shrug*