MitD - What We Know

[eras10]

I'm pretty darn sure that it's related to the Snarl. The pile of evidence given in page 2 of this forum is just too overwhelming. Especially the "horrible, but beautiful" reactions from SoD, the inability to perceive the gates, and the "father" discussion. The best counter-arguments are:

#1: Redcloak thinks he knows what MiTD is,and so do the hunters. But he obviously doesn't fully understand his abilities. What if MiTD has an innate ability that causes other people to misperceive his true nature/form? The other possibility is - this frankly has happened elsewhere- Rich only decided that MiTD was a Snarl-piece midway through the comic (the best example that comes to mind right now of this is that the first 150 strips where MiTD is mentioned, his personality is noticeably different - for example, he's pleased to be eating children and is apparently as evil as anyone else. There are other examples).

#2. The fact that MiTD's personality is not similar to the Snarl's. Again, it wouldn't be unusual in a fantasy story to have something like this happening. A tiny, separated piece of a monstrous being that, living independently of the whole, turns out to have a conscience or a distinctly differing personality? That may even be some kind of trope. Definitely not unheard of.

Folks, the hunting for obscure creature in a handbook does not seem to be they way to get this done. Rich is almost certainly using the MiTD's identity for some larger hook or message now. Some hardcore obscure D&D ubercreature subtype is just not where he's going with the mystery. For all the geeky sidebars, this strip is not that geek-centric. Dragonball Z would do it that way, but not OOTS.

[DanReiv]

Well, you may be right but I still think the reaction of the hunters in sod is a solid clue.

1st They recognized it, and then they were'nt that afraid to try and capture it (doesn't have the book at my place currently, still need to check that part again)

There are 2 problems with Pit fiend/Tarrasque/Snarl offspring. Hunters probably wouldn't recognized those, not part of their innate Nature/Dungeon Knowledge skills (I'm assuming they are rangers) and they probably would have run away from those 3...

I'm not really satisfied with my previous try, it's too complicated and Zodar are constructs...

Maybe a core monster from previous edition that didn't make it to 3.5 ?

That kind of thing can happen in the Ootsverse

[Trebuchet]

I hadn't noticed the speech bubbles of constructs. That's pretty observant.

[batsofchaos]

Also fiends don't necessarily have telltale speech-bubbles. Sabine speaks with a normal black/white bubble.

[Jural]

I will soon have all of these strips tacked to the wall of my apartment for reference, as I sit in the dark, scribbling wild theories about the identity of the MitD and drinking some lukewarm caffinated beverage.

And that, my friend, is how secret societies start. Ok, not usually. Usually that's the first step in becoming committed to an insane asylum. But sometimes... you get lucky and ... boom! Illuminati.

[paddyfool]

Shiny.

Slightly scary, but also shiny.

[Dagren]

I hadn't noticed the speech bubbles of constructs. That's pretty observant.

Do constructs have a special bubble? I can't remember ever meeting one.

[Dziadek]

One missing: #376, panel 3, mentioned by Redcloak

[hamishspence]

Origin of PCs- the Iron Golems had square bubbles, capitals, and a jagged bit leading to the mouth.

WE ARE...IRON GOLEMS! WE ARE... PROGRAMMED ONLY...TO ROCK!

Maybe if other constructs appear theirs will be similar.

[Dork Lord]

What about that flesh golem in the thieves city? Did it have an odd bubble?

[hamishspence]

no. "Raaaagh!" looked the same as normal text. Maybe its that Iron golems are robotic looking, so got robospeak bubble.

[MoonBeam]

I highly doubt that MitD would be some inbreed with a bunch of templates and/or soul splices as some of you suggested.

In my opinion, the answer has to be something simple.

DanReiv may be right...

[factotum]

Origin of PCs- the Iron Golems had square bubbles, capitals, and a jagged bit leading to the mouth.

WE ARE...IRON GOLEMS! WE ARE... PROGRAMMED ONLY...TO ROCK!

Maybe if other constructs appear theirs will be similar.

On the other hand, maybe the Iron Golems' speech bubbles looked like that as a spoof of the kind of symbolism that heavy metal bands often use, rather than being something generic to all constructs.

[hamishspence]

the modron/slaad versions of "devil/angel on shoulder" in the strip where Elan has to choose whether to save Nale or not, have different bubbles.

The slaad's is pretty normal, but the modron's is square with curved corners.

[awibs]

I'd like to add that I question whether or not it was incapable of understanding what the gate was. Maybe it enjoys frustrating people by playing stupid. I'm not saying it's necessarily a super-genius, but maybe it's playing even stupider than it was. I've known a LOT of children to enjoy this game. I remember playing it for a few months when I was about seven or so, with my dad. I'd pretend to be incapable of learning something simple to giggle at him making frustrated noises and saying it again. It's a variation on the "baiting someone who is easy to bait because it's funny how they keep falling for it again and again." Kids who play this game definitely think they're "being cute." Notice that the MitD did not have to think about it when he screamed O-Chul's name. There was no soliloquy about "wait.. what was it everyone else called you..." the way there often is when he is thinking seriously about anything, such as when he was so worried about getting in trouble that Haley and Belkar just left with Roy's body. This implies to me that he knew O-Chul's name all along and was just insisting on being silly to frustrate him. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html also shows that O-chul's personality indulges him. He's the kind of guy who will correct him gently, over and over, and sigh in frustration, which are exactly the kind of adult kids love to bait with that game. Not to mention, in that strip O-Chul comments that he picks up "Go" very quickly. The small font implying an under-his-breath aside, which seems to me like he's not comforting the monster by telling him he's not stupid so much as he's commenting to himself that the monster is not actually as stupid as he plays. I also see http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html, where the mitd actually comments that he prefers to leave the thinking to others, as an open admission that he's capable of it but intentionally doesn't do it. He also complains at Tsukio, "Hey, that's my line!" http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html as opposed to reacting with actual puzzlement, which he would if he really didn't know what the gate was.

Thus, I disagree that he actually didn't know what the gate was.

And that was someone using your lovely compilation to prove a point!

[Dagren]

I highly doubt that MitD would be some inbreed with a bunch of templates and/or soul splices as some of you suggested.

In my opinion, the answer has to be something simple.

DanReiv may be right...

Yeah, but one of the main arguments against it being a D&D monster is that nobody can find it in the books. Thing is, plenty of people still have the old monster books, so if it were in one I would have expected someone to find it by now. Hell, maybe someone has and nobody believes them, that's why nobody can find it because it's already been ruled out for some reason. </ramble>

[Fish]

The carnival audience said it was both ugly and beautiful. What can be made of that? Does that mean a high Charisma score or a low one? Can you have a 0 CHA?

[Nerdanel]

I think none of the simple answers fit, so the MitD has to be something more complex.

Templates are an easy and well-known way of making things more powerful in D&D. Templates are also a source of rules-related humor, as can be seen with popular thought experiments like template-stacked squirrels and kittens of doom that can make short work of experienced adventurers. Big piles of templates are also funny by themselves as they evoke the reader to wonder how complicated and unlikely a backstory would be necessary to explain them. After all, this is a humor comic.

In Soviet Russia a (Vampire Voidmind Phrenic Pseudonatural Paragon Half-Troll Half-Fiend Half-Air Elemental Half-Earth Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Dragon (Black) Half-Dragon (Red) Half-Dragon (White) Half-Dragon (Blue) Half-Dragon (Prismatic) Half-Dragon (Force)) mosquito (of Legend) crushes you like a bug!

The MitD is probably something fairly sane in comparison.

[skyk]

I'm going to vote for "it's Chuck Norris"

[Alexandurs]

It is useful ^^ dont stress too much about it woman!

[Magnema]

I think none of the simple answers fit, so the MitD has to be something more complex.

Templates are an easy and well-known way of making things more powerful in D&D. Templates are also a source of rules-related humor, as can be seen with popular thought experiments like template-stacked squirrels and kittens of doom that can make short work of experienced adventurers. Big piles of templates are also funny by themselves as they evoke the reader to wonder how complicated and unlikely a backstory would be necessary to explain them. After all, this is a humor comic.

In Soviet Russia a (Vampire Voidmind Phrenic Pseudonatural Paragon Half-Troll Half-Fiend Half-Air Elemental Half-Earth Elemental Half-Fire Elemental Half-Dragon (Black) Half-Dragon (Red) Half-Dragon (White) Half-Dragon (Blue) Half-Dragon (Prismatic) Half-Dragon (Force)) mosquito (of Legend) crushes you like a bug!

The MitD is probably something fairly sane in comparison.

Too many halves.

P.S. Sorry if my previous post was a wall of text - I didn't realize how long it would be... but has anyone considered it?

P.P.S. And by the way, how much do we know about that monster anyway?

P.P.P.S. Warning: DCPC bonus spoiler
It'd be funny if the MITD didn't realize that he had the power until the narrator showed up and told him he did.

[wootage]

I stand by my statement. If you want to disprove me go ahead.

Panel #2 in this would be the only real evidence of an evil alignment that I remember. Although there was the "kids meal" later on, but we never saw that actually happen.

It's possible that the MitD actually doesn't know what pain is because of its toughness though, so it's laughter might have been because it didn't understand that Roy was being injured.

[thalandus]

Earth Elemental, perhaps the prince of the Plane of Earth. Massive strength, father much bigger, having a high rank within the earth elemental ranks might give him special powers, definitely not found in rainforests, protection against slashing attacks. Can cause earthquakes. I can imagine the ugly yet beautiful thing as well for an earth elemental.

[chrestomancy]

A point against a snarl offspring - if the MitD is a snarlspawn of some description, it must have been kicking around since before the gates were first sealed. The first gate got destroyed in SoD at 27 years ago, but the MitD got captured 30 years ago. If the MitD spent time with its father, it was before SoD begins. Doesn't discount it, mind you, but opens the question why was MitD not picked up sooner.

Likely answer is MitD is not something from D&D at all, both FF and Pokemon have disturbingly good justifications. The only fit from 3.5 for the wish & earthquake is a Solar. While Pit Fiend can do the wish, it isn't strong enough to sunder the ground, doesn't have Earthquake, and doesn't even have Sunder as a feat. Unless you like the sound of a template hill giant/fallen Solar halfbreed, or the unloved offspring of The Tarrasque and a horny-yet-confused gem-dragon-natural-sorcerer, best to let go of the Wish (Miracle etc) criteria and assume the suggested foreshadowing from 543 wasn't meant as anything more than child-like innocence.

May be worth adding spell like ability power word stun to the list from 475

[EmeraldPhoenix]

One missing: #376, panel 3, mentioned by Redcloak

Thanks! It's updated now.

[Super_slash2]

This is just speculation but looking at pages 475 to 477, it seems the MiTD has a very rapid metabolism. Maybe this is why it eats so much? In most panels we see the MiTD, it is eating something and I think it even says that its eating too much.

I don't remember what sparked this idea, I think it was how it got tired after doing the earthquake stomp. And that it ate a whole batch of stew and fat-free scones and was still hungry. Is there any creature with a fast metabolism that would fit these other criteria?

[Morgan Wick]

The other possibility is - this frankly has happened elsewhere- Rich only decided that MiTD was a Snarl-piece midway through the comic (the best example that comes to mind right now of this is that the first 150 strips where MiTD is mentioned, his personality is noticeably different - for example, he's pleased to be eating children and is apparently as evil as anyone else. There are other examples).

The problem with this is that the relevant clues appear in SoD, which was released while the strips of War and XP's were. That's a bit later than "midway through the comic". Unless by "midway through the comic" you mean "midway between the start of the comic and the very end when everything is wrapped up", but after SoD would be a bit late to make that sort of change.

As for being evil? Hey, more evidence he just moved up to the Young Adult age category!

[CrimsonAngel]

Another one of these threads... Sigh.

[David Argall]

Panel #2 in this would be the only real evidence of an evil alignment that I remember. Although there was the "kids meal" later on, but we never saw that actually happen.

97 seems to qualify here.

7 and 8. Does not recognise the gates even when he looks straight at them. Maybe an Important Clue.

Likely not. It does not recognize most things even when it looks right at them. 431 and 477 are examples of not noticing non-gates.

[Selene]

Let's take one of the old Pokemons, Red/Blue or Gold/Silver, I got out of the loop after that. Explain to me why it sucks. This is a serious question, what flaw do the games have that make them ireedemably suck like, say, Superman 64? Here / by mp / a link to a review, anything. I'm genuinely curious.


So Godzilla and its relatives are also out of the equation. 'Kay.

Edit: Love the pic, Suldarr.

I don't play the game, so I can't speak to that. And that's not what I meant. It's not the game I hate. It's the actual monsters. My son dragged me to a movie once, years ago, and it was like being in hell. All those creatures just shouting their names for like 20 minutes? It was literally the worst movie I have ever seen. And I don't say that lightly. After that torture I never want to look at a Pokemon again.

I don't know what Superman 64 is. Sorry. I'm old. LOL.

Godzilla's legal team are extremely aggressive at defending their trademark, so it wouldn't be a good idea without permission. I can't swear the Pokemon people would come after him, but IMO, if the Gozilla people found out, they absolutely would. I suspect Rich doesn't want to get sued.

It's certainly not a Final Fantasy (or other intellectual property) monster. If the Giant had to change the Band-Aid box between the online strip and the sold book to cover the possibility of lawsuits, I doubt we would get to see a creature taken from a video game, unless it's one so well-known that it's gone into popular culture.

What the MitD may be, if not a D&D monster, is one of the many creatures from pop culture, Greek mythology, generic Halloween monsters, etc. It may also be an old 1st or 2nd edition D&D monster that used to be iconic, but hasn't been transposed into more recent books.

Agreed. Wonder if I should dig out the old 1st Ed MM & FF...?