Avatar Battle Royale Discussion Thread XXV: The Future (Imperfect) is...Soon

[kpenguin]

Yeah, FI seems to be a shade darker than Revenge of the Sith, hardly the lightheartedness of the original trilogy.

[Traker]

sorry to interupt this star wars metafor but which format do you put your inkscape files in so that you can upload them onto photobucket so that you can move them here.

[Fawkes]

PNG is a good picture format. BMP and JPEG are acceptable, but less good.

In other news, as the newly self-appointed King of ABR, I proclaim that characters be allowed to use melee weapons!

[Mad Mask]

I'm not saying we should go for super-realism, but be a little less "Dragon Ball Z" with people with power levels over the edge, and more "action series". Crazy stunts should work, but when they get overdone the character doing it will face the consequences.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to use mêlée weapons either, but they shouldn't be the most common primary arm, given that in most circumstances guns will be better.

How exactly cannot he match them? Let's see: you need many bullets to kill a person, usually. You only need one fireball to toast many persons, or one high-level attack spell like disintegrate to assassinate leaders. Also, while peacekeeprs can no doubt shoot well, they are still NPC:s, not something that regularly beats PC:s within inch of their life. They are not maybe mere mooks, but they are still very much killable.

I repeat: Peacekeepers have a lot more than just guns (who usually don't kill instantly but simply knock someone out of the fight). They have grenades (which are cheaper than fireballs, by the way), rocket launchers, gatling guns (useful to defend a position), and many others.

And I don't believe in "PCs and NPCs" for ABR. There is no DM to control almost all people in the world, each character is controlled by someone else. Even the suicidal and incredibly stupid drows that exist only to die at the hand of the main cast.

[Mina Kobold]

I don't like these debates of "guns vs. magic". They cannot really be measured against each other, because they work in completely different ways. I do not like MM saying "anyone with pistol can kill wizard dead in anywhere", but I do not like "wizards are bullet-invunerable engines of death" option either. Let's just say wizards and gun-users are both good at different kinds of situations and leave it at that, shall we?

Also, why should everyone use guns? Swords are cool, and I see no real deterrent to using them exept for range, which in cityfights is limited anyways. Gun can kill people rather quickly, but sword can do the same, and without noise at that. Sword is also much more "noble" weapon and has finesse, and it never jams or runs out of bullets.

I like this idea, swords being more morally good and the nature of the fights (in a city hiding is easy but doesn't help against a sword) Why not just have guns be the new bow and keep the swords at least for some years? (a bit better and cooler though)

@Mecha: Un roi! Vivre la révolution! *chases Mechafox with the French revolutionary army*

[kpenguin]

No rocket launchers, MM. WWI tech, remember? What we would accept as a rocket launcher wouldn't be developed until WWII.

[Mad Mask]

No rocket launchers, MM. WWI tech, remember? What we would accept as a rocket launcher wouldn't be developed until WWII.

Actually, the bazooka was developed in World War I, but it wasn't implemented because the war ended too soon.

Although I'm talking about artillery like the Congreve rocket, which was used in the Napoleonic wars. You're right, I'll change my terminology.

Also, I'd like to hear what makes FI so "dark". Is it because the whole world is at the mercy of the Sovices? Or is it because the Resistance is in bad shape?

[Threeshades]

Actually, the bazooka was developed in World War I, but it wasn't implemented because the war ended too soon.

Although I'm talking about artillery like the Congreve rocket, which was used in the Napoleonic wars. You're right, I'll change my terminology.

Also, I'd like to hear what makes FI so "dark". Is it because the whole world is at the mercy of the Sovices? Or is it because the Resistance is in bad shape?

Let's see, a race of alien cyber microbes took over the world and enforces its regime with violence, executed by faceless mooks behind gas masks. I think thats pretty good for a start.

[kpenguin]

Actually, the bazooka was developed in World War I, but it wasn't implemented because the war ended too soon.

Yeah, I probably should have said "used", although bazookas were notoriously unreliable until several improvements made during WWII in light of its effectiveness in the field. The Panzerschreck, which was developed during WWII, would be what I would call the first modern rocket launcher.

Let's see, a race of alien cyber microbes took over the world and enforces its regime with violence, executed by faceless mooks behind gas masks. I think thats pretty good for a start.

How dare you Citizen! There is no "regime" being "enforced" and if there were, it would certainly not be through violence! The UNA is a peaceble union of reasonable nations, promoting peace and tranquility!

Yeah, the mindless propaganda doesn't help either.

[Mad Mask]

Let's see, a race of alien cyber microbes took over the world and enforces its regime with violence, executed by faceless mooks behind gas masks. I think thats pretty good for a start.

Actually, the whole premise of FI is that the Sovices don't enforce their regime with violence, but by acting so nice that the peoples wouldn't want to rebel. And the Peacekeeper usually don't wear gas masks except when are using chemical weapons, usually against the ALF. A lot of resistance warriors also wear gas masks, it's a necessity if FI's tech is similar to World War I.

And the UNA is like an Utopia for its people.

[kpenguin]

By the way, MM, how is crime handled within UNA nations?

[Lyinginbedmon]

I can understand it being darker, the title of it is afterall "future imperfect", but I think in order for the resistance to have any kind of shot there should be a fairly even playing field, or else they'd either have won or lost in the course of 15 years. The entirety of WW2 lasted less than that after all.

So maybe it should be that guns are powerful, but you need to be a crack shot to get a definite killing blow, whilst spellcasters need similar with picking their targets and strategy to do some catastrophic damage.

[SinisterPenguin]

I'm not saying we should go for super-realism, but be a little less "Dragon Ball Z" with people with power levels over the edge, and more "action series". Crazy stunts should work, but when they get overdone the character doing it will face the consequences.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to use mêlée weapons either, but they shouldn't be the most common primary arm, given that in most circumstances guns will be better.



I repeat: Peacekeepers have a lot more than just guns (who usually don't kill instantly but simply knock someone out of the fight). They have grenades (which are cheaper than fireballs, by the way), rocket launchers, gatling guns (useful to defend a position), and many others.

See...maybe I'm overreacting, but it seems that you're just making the average Peacekeeper squad so powerful that the resistance is pretty much doomed from the start. I know, they're supposed to be outmatched, but not to the point where they don't stand any chance at all.

And I don't believe in "PCs and NPCs" for ABR. There is no DM to control almost all people in the world, each character is controlled by someone else. Even the suicidal and incredibly stupid drows that exist only to die at the hand of the main cast.

Oh, c'mon, you actually gave the peacekeepers gas masks. How can you expect them to not be mooks?

[kpenguin]

But the war between the ALF and UNA isn't a conventional war, like WWII was, Lying.

Take "The Troubles", for instance, which is generally accepted to have began in the late 60's and lasted until the last 90's.

[Mad Mask]

I can understand it being darker, the title of it is afterall "future imperfect", but I think in order for the resistance to have any kind of shot there should be a fairly even playing field, or else they'd either have won or lost in the course of 15 years. The entirety of WW2 lasted less than that after all.

So maybe it should be that guns are powerful, but you need to be a crack shot to get a definite killing blow, whilst spellcasters need similar with picking their targets and strategy to do some catastrophic damage.

Maybe there's the fact that the ALF has an armoured magically shielded large-radius missile shooting flying citadel ?

And what do you think of my proposition for the ALF to have a few other Citadel-like buildings ? They don't have to be as powerful, of course, but that would widen their influence. Would they have to have Jovocian engines or is there some other way of making them fly ?

See...maybe I'm overreacting, but it seems that you're just making the average Peacekeeper squad so powerful that the resistance is pretty much doomed from the start. I know, they're supposed to be outmatched, but not to the point where they don't stand any chance at all.

Your average Peacekeeper squad is more of an anti-riot police force. The ALF faces well-equipped professionals. It's not like the US Government sends cops to fight terrorists, isn't it ?

And rifles, revolvers and grenades (frag, concussion and chemical) are the average equipment of the Peacekeeper soldiers. Rocket artillery and tanks are only used in all-out ingagements.

Oh, c'mon, you actually gave the peacekeepers gas masks. How can you expect them to not be mooks?

Peacekeepers usually don't wear gas masks. And there is such a thing as a Subverted Trope, you know.

[Threeshades]

So who's up for starting a completely unrelated plot?

[-skimmer-]

So who's up for starting a completely unrelated plot?

What do you have in mind?

[memnarch]

...

Your average Peacekeeper squad is more of an anti-riot police force. The ALF faces well-equipped professionals. It's not like the US Government sends cops to fight terrorists, isn't it ?

And rifles, revolvers and grenades (frag, concussion and chemical) are the average equipment of the Peacekeeper soldiers. Rocket artillery and tanks are only used in all-out ingagements.
...

Anti-riot police don't use lethal weaponry, if they can help it. If the Peacekeeper squad is supposed to be more of the anti-riot police kind, they should be using stuff more like rubber bullets, tear gas, and tasers as the main tools they use and stuff like shotguns for extreme cases (lethal).

And the US government doesn't send anti-riot police to fight terrorists either. That's what the military (army and airforce) is for.

[Threeshades]

What do you have in mind?

how about something about pirates. or seafaring in general?

[Traker]

how about something about pirates. or seafaring in general?

sounds fun. when will it be starting?

[Keris]

So who's up for starting a completely unrelated plot?

Well, I was thinking of trying to jump-start P3 again.

how about something about pirates. or seafaring in general?

But this is a better idea. Or we could combine them!

[Threeshades]

Well, I was thinking of trying to jump-start P3 again.


But this is a better idea. Or we could combine them!

I have absolutely no idea whats going on beyond FFF. Which itself is also quite a mystery to me though

[Mad Mask]

Anti-riot police don't use lethal weaponry, if they can help it. If the Peacekeeper squad is supposed to be more of the anti-riot police kind, they should be using stuff more like rubber bullets, tear gas, and tasers as the main tools they use and stuff like shotguns for extreme cases (lethal).

And the US government doesn't send anti-riot police to fight terrorists either. That's what the military (army and airforce) is for.

I meant the Peacekeeper soldiers had the rifles, pistols and grenades, while the Peacekeeper anti-riot people had non-lethal weaponry. Thanks anyway.

After thinking about it I've decided that I don't care about complete realism. All I want is for the Peacekeepers to be an actual menace, not some goons that are to be slaughtered like sheeps. And having good weapons is going to help.

I apologise for my mistakes.

[Threeshades]

I meant the Peacekeeper soldiers had the rifles, pistols and grenades, while the Peacekeeper anti-riot people had non-lethal weaponry. Thanks anyway.

After thinking about it I've decided that I don't care about complete realism. All I want is for the Peacekeepers to be an actual menace, not some goons that are to be slaughtered like sheeps. And having good weapons is going to help.

I apologise for my mistakes.

It's called Karma. Live like a sheep, die like a sheep.

[Mad Mask]

It's called Karma. Live like a sheep, die like a sheep.

How could the Peacekeepers know that the Sovices don't want their best interests ? For everybody who doesn't know Lying and isn't insane, the UNA pretty much created an Utopia on earth and the ALF is a bunch of insane terrorists.

[T-O-E]

It's called Karma. Live like a sheep, die like a sheep.

Fleece-Sheepers?

[Threeshades]

How could the Peacekeepers know that the Sovices don't want their best interests ? For everybody who doesn't know Lying and isn't insane, the UNA pretty much created an Utopia on earth and the ALF is a bunch of insane terrorists.

Sheep. The resistance is too big and well organized to consist of insaniacs. If they dont realize that, they're sheep.

[memnarch]

how about something about pirates. or seafaring in general?

Does it have to be the same kind of characters as in FFF?

[Threeshades]

Does it have to be the same kind of characters as in FFF?

what do you mean?

[Mad Mask]

Sheep. The resistance is too big and well organized to consist of insaniacs. If they dont realize that, they're sheep.

Fine then, immoral terrorists. Nevertheless, the UNA has pretty much ridden the world of a lot of its problems, and maintains world-wide peace (except for the ALF). If I were a citizen of the UNA I'd have a lot of basis to be against the terrorist ALF who wishes to remove that semi-utopia.