Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator

[xPANCAKEx]

re: online dating - if they bring you success then why not. A word of advice from what i've be told of them by friends more versed in them than i am (i stick to dating in the non-electronic world): A lot of people on them are looking for a relationship. and i mean that in the sense of relationship as a status symbol, rather than a forfilling experiance

Your welcome to the quote. Who doesn't love being quoted?

And yea...apron...probably a good idea. Maybe something like "Kiss the cook"? Or maybe something funny? Google brought me to Crazy Apparel, anything catch your eyes?

"comedy" aprons arn't amusing. But i guess it depends how low her humourous expectations of you are

[Syka]

I am not a huge fan of online dating, but mostly for me to be attracted to someone I need to see how they carry themself, what they look like in person, etc. From just pictures I get no sense of "Hey, that person is physically attractive to me" unless I already know them. I mean that with the utmost honesty, so I think online-dating with the goal of a relationship would be pointless for me. Oz didn't particularly like it either (he gave Match.com a try), he only ever met women he became friends with rather than dating.

For plenty of others I've known it to work. One of my friends is currently on Eharmony (the aforementioned Jill, ironically. She signed up about 3 or 4 days post-Jack-moving-out...it's her pattern). I don't like Eharmony, though, for reasons I'm unable to discuss on the board.

One I've heard excellent things of is PlentyOfFish, which if I recall correctly it's free.

But yeah...not a huge fan of online dating for personal reasons, not due to any real problem with the concept.

[Jalor]

One problem gets resolved, another begins. I doubt anyone remembers my post about the situation between my male friend "F" and my female friend "K", but F managed to clean up significantly over the summer. He's actually passing his classes now, and he's cut back on the hallucinogens. He's working on finding someone to stay with until his home situation is resolved, but he's been doing okay so far. Point is, I wasn't worried about him until today.

Another very good friend of mine, "M", asked K out today. She said, and I'm quoting M here, "Not yes and not no". He insists that that is a good answer, and promised to explain on Monday. So I'll explain on Monday. However, he said I should consider them "in a relationship" now. The entire reason I even brought up F's situation was because I wasn't sure what to do about his unrequited love for K. Which persists, as far as I know. To make matters worse, several more of my friends have confessed to me their feelings for K as well. It's at the point where about one third of my close friends have feelings for K.

Oh, and M asked her out as a result of my advice following a recent, ugly breakup in which his ex-girlfriend hooked up with someone else while on vacation before dumping him by text message. I covered the basics (she was a bitch anyway, you're giving her more power then she deserves by letting this get you down, find another girl and try to bounce back) and he goes and accidentaly turns my life into one of those dating simulation games.

[xPANCAKEx]

Jalor

good on F - he'll have his ups and downs, but with support he'll do just fine. Re: K - he'll have to suck it up im afriad. C'est La Vie.

re: M - sadly any answer other than a straight positive is rarely a positive. Unless her response was to make a move on him, it sounds like he's living in fantasy land. Let him live the dream and learn the hard way on this one. Im intrigued to hear what his explaination is

re people like K : if they gab on about it, tell them to go do something about it rather than sitting back and talking

re K - if she complains about it, tell her all shes gotta do when people ask her out is say "im flatted, but im not interested, sorry" when people ask her out. It will create no mixed messages, and no one can say "she lead me on" when she doesn;t give a straight answer (as with m)

[AngelSword]

Here is my take on what is going on.

Spoiler

Show

After a month of this pain, statements made, and outside input, I think I can be certain of one thing. She is as hurt as I am about this. Whatever her motivation, whatever her mood, I can see pain behind those cold eyes she gives me. Whenever I attempt to bring it up, she becomes angry, since that is easier for her than admitting weakness. And the more I bring it up, the more she has to face the fact that this hurts her as deeply as it does me.

At first, she said it was her and not me (the cliché, "It's not you, it's me" approach), saying that she didn't feel for me the same feelings she did when we first started dating. This struck me as odd, as we had a discussion of what Love meant to us, and she firmly believed that it wasn't some supernatural force, and here she was, citing the absence of this mystical intangibility as wanting to end it.

But later, when I tried to present my side of the breakup, she later claims that she feels smothered by me making her my "Manic Pixie goddamned Dream Girl" (exact words), which is not something I ever did. I will admit that I found myself invigorated by her strength, but all the change I've made in my life had to be made by me, and I alone took the steps to make them.

However, in a relationship, things should run as a democracy, where all choices are made at the consensus of all involved. I considered her in every major decision I made.

I say "democracy," somewhat tongue-in-cheek, since she said that her emotions were not, and I didn't get to challenge them. And I'm not. What I'm challenging are her actions. She claims that I became dependent on her to teach me how to live again, which is untrue, but I would think that if I were, the problems would have made themselves apparent much sooner than this, where they could be addressed and corrected. Which leads me to believe that she is either incredibly patient, or lying (to me or her, I'm not quite sure).

With all of that, I can think of only two reasons that she'd want to end it; sexual incompatibility, or her eventual return to Seattle. And since we've had little of the former towards the end (and considering that I think we were really beginning to click on a sexual level), I can only assume that the real motivation is the upcoming distance.

From a conversation we had:

AngelSword: Even moving to Seattle.
Her: I didn't want you to move to Seattle
AngelSword: But you realize I would have.
Her: Yes. I also realized that I had no damn right to ask that and frankly, I would come to resent you even more for it.

One of the odd things I find is that she said that there was no difference between a lover's love and a friend's love to her, which I read as her saying that she is incapable of romantic love. I cannot believe that, as I know that we had that sort of deep connection. Even now, I still feel it. I feel it more strongly than anything I have ever felt. And no matter what she may say, I know that she felt it, too.

So there it is. I put it out there for you to read, but the one person I want to read it won't.

[ThatVoice]

Angelsword:
Let me boil your post down and you tell me if anything sounds a little off.

• She's hurt, but that's not what's making her angry when you force the subject. It's because she can't face that she's weak.
• She doesn't think love is a supernatural force, so the idea that her feelings regarding you changed is odd.
• Relationships are a democracy, but you only 'consider' her when making decisions. Not ask, consider. Clearly, you also get a veto on her emotions.
• You didn't get clingy or dependent, since you would've noticed if you were getting like that. She must be wrong when challenging your actions. It's her actions that are to blame, she must have lied to you about your behaviour.
• So really she must be ending it because of sexual incompatability (read: her fault) or because she's moving away.

None of those statements sound unhealthy to you?

They should do, they're exagerrated for effect. If you want to salvage things, start by taking a good long hard look at what transpired. Look at what you did wrong.

I'd take a wild guess that you're being painted as the villain because you appear to those involved to be wholly unrepentent for your part in a messy breakup. A breakup that you keep dragging out every time you talk to this girl.

Step back.
Take an objective, dispassionate look at what happened.
If you can't see what you did wrong, look again. Harder.
Come to terms with it. The solution, and how to get there, should develop in your mind. Or on your note paper. Or your word processing suite. Or your stone tablet.

[xPANCAKEx]

AngelSword

as much as its a 'cliche' sometimes feelings chance and it really is a case of "its me, not you". If her feelings have changed and she is no longer interested in you, then you'll have to accept that rather than bringing it up over and over. She may not be even be able to provide a solid answer as to why her feelings have changed

Now - you say you considered her in every major change you made? How much did she factor into your consideration? And did you let her know she was a factor? Truth is, even in a relationship, you usually have to be pretty self absorbed. She may feel that you considered her too greatly in your decision making and felt emotionally burduned by that (it does happen, even unintentionally at times)

Inversely at othertimes, you may not have considered her enough. Saying that you WOULD have moved to seattle is pushing things too - if you moved you would have been socially dependant on her, not knowing anyone else, and that alone would have placed a massive responsiblity on her, one which by using the words "would have" she may feel you'd not consulted her on enough. The correct approach would have been to ask "How would you feel about me moving to seattle with you when you go?" - as to be honest, it would have been a 'with you' even if you didn't live together.

As for your last paragraph - well, i'd say maybe theres some wishful thinking going on. Maybe she wasn't being honest with herself, or maybe you're just projecting you own feelings - fact of the matter is, she may not have had the same feelings (that deep connection) for you as you did for her, and you are going to have to accept that possibility even if it hurts

[Partof1]

Well, I've given myself a couple opportunities and incentives to ask her out. The other day, I lent her my hoodie, because it was cold where our group was having lunch. She held onto it for the rest of the day, but forgot in a gym locker. I kinda dropped my chance at asking her for this weekend, mainly cuz I'm already busy, partly because of nerves. Anyway, I also was talking to anbother friend and told her how I feel about the 1st girl, if it makes sense, now I feel I have more of a reason to talk to her. And, I'll get to talk to her tomorrow, when she gives back the coat.

So, all in all, woo!

[Ishmael]

So whats everyone opinions on these online dating things? Honestly I never wanted to go that route but my friend seems to be having great success with his quest using one.

I met the person I'm dating now through okcupid, actually. Which is really random, and unexpected. But I think one of the reasons it worked so well is that since I was 500 miles away from him for most of the summer, we were able to email, text, chat, and generally get to know each other before we actually met. So by the time I actually met him in person, much of the awkwardness and confusion implicit in online dating wasn't present. Actually, it was easier, because we felt like we knew each other for a long time.


So, speaking of online dating...I was thinking of asking the person I'm seeing if we both wanted to change our statuses to 'seeing someone', on said online dating site. He's not exactly my boyfriend, but I think things have been going pretty well, and though we're not in a committed, long-term relationship, I'm definitely don't think I'm still 'single'. Is this a reasonable concern? I don't want to push things, or appear clingy...

[Kulture]

I realise that you've all likely heard it before, and that my problem is basic and mundane, but I'm not about to give up on this endeavour easily.

It all started in February.
Or atleast that's when it surfaced.

There's a girl wom I only know from my Biology class.

Our social spectrums are completely seperate.

I flit from group to group, attempting to be a voice of impartial logic and comic relief. I subscribe to the old ways, and always try to be the gentleman where I can. When it comes to love, I tend to freeze up, or atleast change personality completely to a softspoken, hopeless romantic (atleast so I'm told)


She's a part of the Artistic crowd, the one crowd that my social networking plans have not entered.

We're very much opposites.

I'm out of shape, logical, old fashioned, controversial and have my mind very set in my ways (Gallantry, honour, duty, that sort of crap).

She's Beautiful, artistic, in shape, funny, charming and alltogeather perfect in every aspect to me.

Originally she didn't even acknowledge my existance, and probably thought I was creepy as hell.

In February it was her Birthday, and I decided to make an effort to get her something (This being early days, before I fully realised the gravity of my situation).
For some reason I found myself trapsing over a mile through pouring rain to buy her a box of Lindor (AKA the truestrike chocolate, since it's a guaranteed hit).
I spent the time to wrap it, bag it and gave it to her on the day before slipping back into the crowd.

Since then, I grew attatched to her, and then eventually fell for her.

Recently, I held the door for her (as I always do when I'm not the last person out of the door, for everyone) she actually said Thank you.
I was on a high for the rest of the afternoon.

Thus I find myself in this situation.

I've not go the confidence to talk to her (I have made her laugh in class a few times, but only through my usual comic relief tactics).

My 18th is on saturday and I'm going to arrange the appropriate pub crawl and I'm tempted to ask if she wants to join in.

I just need general advice on what to do and how to ask her without defecating my own intestines in anxiety.

[xPANCAKEx]

Partof1

no - not "woo". You've had opertunities to ask her out and you've wimped out. Just ask her out on a date (and it is a "just" as its a simple matter to get to know someone).

so tomorrow, when you talk to her (getting your coat back isn't a neccessity), ask her "hey, mind if i take you out one evenin next week" - do that, and regardless of your answer, THEN you get a woo

Ishmael

nope - thats not clingy or pushy. "seeing someone" is a very loose, casual term, but its a good step. If he thinks that 'too much too fast' or something like that, then you have to ask yourself how well do you know him after all this time

Kulture

first - clear this up in your head. You've not "fallen for her" - you're simply infatuated with the girl, and theres a world of difference in that. Get that logged into your head will be healthy for you in the long term. I worry that you're making a big deal out of little things - you need to ease back a bit... well, a LOT to be honest or you'll do yourself more harm than good

Now - onto what to say. It really is as simple as saying to her "hey, me and some friends are going out on a pub/bar crawl up town next weekend for my birthday if you and your friends fancy joining us?"

This isn't 'ideal', but it certainly is ideal. By what you've said it sounds like you hardly know each other, and the likelihood of her turning up to lavish attention on you all night a la some romantic fantasy that i'd wage may have fleeted through your head once or twice is slim and none. Im sorry to burst that bubble, but it needs to be done (see point one). Realistically however, the idea of a large social outing where she can bring people she knows so she can relax and have fun is often far more appealing.

You've put this girl up on a pedistal in your head. Get to know her. Shes human. She's not going to bite your head off. The worst than can happen is she'll already have other plans - and even then there was no harm in asking in the first place

its really not that scary. If you're a logicial person as you think you are, you'll know that being afriad when there's nothing to be afriad is silly at best, counter productive, and at worst self destructive

[Dragon555]

I find myself in a rather odd position. Earlier this week, I asked a girl if she'd like to go out with me this weekend. She declined because she was going home this weekend. However, she agreed to go out at a later time. So far, yay and happy day. Unfortunately, I'm currently getting the distinct impression that she did *not* interpret it as me asking her out on a date. This puts me in a slightly odd situation. I've talked to two close friends about it and, from the conversations, come up with two different approaches to the matter:
1. When I set up an outing with her later, state more directly that I'm proposing a date.
2. Set up the outing and see where life goes.

I figure that with option #2, even if it's not actually a date, spending more time with this person would be extremely enjoyable. The downside being that I wouldn't know what to consider it.

Any suggestions based on the information I've given? Are there other solutions I should consider?

[Syka]

Ishmael, it's not out of line at all. It's a very reasonable question, to clear up where you guys stand. When I was casually dating one guy, another friend was trying to persuade me to date him because I wasn't actually 'taken'. I then had to explain to him that even though we weren't in a committed relationship, I definitely wasn't single and didn't like dating more than one person. Not too mention it would suck if one of you found out the other had overstepped some boundary they thought was clear but really wasn't. Emotions don't always listen to things like "Well, we weren't actually together."

Kulture, what pancake said. You've really got this girl up on a pedestal and likely she thinks your just that friendly guy. And, to be honest, from a girls point of view I wouldn't be going on a pub crawl with a bunch of people I don't know. Which...she doesn't really know you. I'd still say you should do it, 'cause she could be totally different from me, but I would also say to not let it crush you if she doesn't show.

[xPANCAKEx]

Kulture

also - if this girl does accept, and does turn up, don't spend your entire evening chasing her about. Spend time with all your friends.

Dragon555

#2 does have its appeal, but you want to ask this girl out on a date, then ask her out on a date. Of course this doesn't have to mean using the words "i'd like to take you on a date" - but saying "hey, now that you're back how about i take you out to dinner next week" is going to be difficult to misinterept as less than a date. If she asks for clarification (as some people may still be unsure) then say "yeah, sure" - its the most relaxed, calm answer you can give.

The less you make a big fuss over asking her out the better it is

[Syka]

Once again, I'm siding with pancake (on both issues).



So...I have a, shall we say, iffy situation at hand. As much as I loathe how Jack handled the situation (apparently, anyway), I want to know he's OK. Now that he's evidently not with the other girl and possibly back in his home state, I've been wanting to send him a message on myspace since he's active again on there. I'm not sure how...kosher this would be, however. I mean, he is mine and Oz's friend but he really messed with one of our other friends.

So....whaddaya think? Message or no message? (Note: It'd be a "I just wanted to see how you're doing" type thing not a "Why did you do that" kinda thing.)

[xPANCAKEx]

Syka

i think its fair to say to him that you're displeased over the way he handled things with Jill, but he's still you're friend and want to know how hes getting along. If he tries to act like hes done nothing wrong, don't get drawn into it. You've told him you're displeased, he'll just have to suck it up. But it doesn't mean it has to end a friendship

so as long as you're honest with him i see no foul

[Keld Denar]

Dragon555

You gotta be friends before you can become lovers. Go out with her, whatever your intentions. Show interest in her, but don't chase too hard. Be genuinely interested in her. Then, when the time is right....pounce!

[Jalor]

Thanks for your advice on my ridiculous situation, Pancake. I'll post M's explaination on Monday, once I've actually heard it.

Okay, now for a simpler situation. There's this girl I met through a mutual friend and whom I'm pretty attracted to. She's a year younger than me, but even in high school that's not really a problem. We've technically known each other for a month, but we've only ever spent much time together twice. Yesterday I flirted with her a bit (okay, maybe more than a bit), and she at least didn't seem put off. Many of my friends were there at the time, but only one of them (the mutual friend I met her through, actually) noticed the flirting. The friend in question has by far the most profound social skills and intuition of any of us, and says she probably didn't pick up on it.

I'm in a good position right now; whether she's the type to date strangers or to date friends, we are (un)familiar enough that it would still work. Also, none of my friends are interested in her (mostly because they've eyes only for K), so I don't have to risk losing a friendship.

I'm just a bit confused as to how to proceed. I don't know whether the girl, henceforth known as "A", picked up on my flirting or not. Would the mutual friend mention it to A? Knowing the mutual friend, this would be a good thing; she likes to facilitate relationships she approves of, and she approves of me and A. I know to ask her out sooner rather than later, but I don't know whether that should be next time we talk, or the time after.

Gaaaahhhhh, I'm overthinking it.

[Partof1]

Pancake

It is a woo, actually. Not WOO!!, but woo. I have wimped out, despite the "just" aspect. The difference now, is confirmed opportunity, and I've told someone. Before, wimping out had no bearing. Now, someone will know I've wimped out, and my pride won't let that happen.

And the coat kind of is important, its cooling down, and its my only good fall coat. :P

[xPANCAKEx]

Partof1

see - you're making excuses. Some would have known you had wimped out before: YOU. And having a positive opinion of yourself, and when neccessary commiting action to obtain a positive opinion of yours, is vital.

But hope it goes well

Jalor

If your friend thinks your flirting was to subtle, maybe you can get her to find out A's opinion of you, put in a good word/lay the foundation so to speak. If she's as good at match making as you suggest, then let her do some digging for you first

plan accordingly depending on the results of what she unearths

[Partof1]

Pancake

I like that, really. I did know. I'm gonna have to remember that in the future.
And I hope it goes well, too.

[MethosH]

I find myself in a rather odd position. Earlier this week, I asked a girl if she'd like to go out with me this weekend. She declined because she was going home this weekend. However, she agreed to go out at a later time. So far, yay and happy day. Unfortunately, I'm currently getting the distinct impression that she did *not* interpret it as me asking her out on a date. This puts me in a slightly odd situation. I've talked to two close friends about it and, from the conversations, come up with two different approaches to the matter:
1. When I set up an outing with her later, state more directly that I'm proposing a date.
2. Set up the outing and see where life goes.

I figure that with option #2, even if it's not actually a date, spending more time with this person would be extremely enjoyable. The downside being that I wouldn't know what to consider it.

Any suggestions based on the information I've given? Are there other solutions I should consider?

Dude... Unless this girl is like a best friend or unless she is very naive.. You have a date.

[Alarra]

So whats everyone opinions on these online dating things? Honestly I never wanted to go that route but my friend seems to be having great success with his quest using one.

My best friend met her husband on ... match.com? I think? I know it was one of those dating sites, I think that one. Anyway, they had a wonderful courtship and are perfect for each other.

I met my husband online, as well as my previous two relationships. Granted, here on gitp rather than through a dating site, but I think the online dating can work out well.

Of course, it's very important to meet and see if you're compatible in person as well. It's actually very common to feel completely different about someone you think you know online once you actually meet.

[TFT]

Confused.

A girl I never talk to, who I barely ever see, came up to me and hugged me, asked me how my football practice was, had about a 3 second conversation, and then left to go back to the people she had been talking to. These people are my friends as well, who I can see telling her to go talk to me, though she doesn't actually like me.

However, I have this nagging feeling she does like me. I have occasionally seen signs(sitting in the same row for me at an assembly when she could have sat anywhere, blah blah blah...) of her liking me, but with this I was thrown for a loop. (Add to it the fact I'm not one for relationships...)

My problem is how to react. Should I just wait and see what happens, as my friend suggested... or should I ask my friend whats up? I don't see myself talking to her about it, though I might just try to say "Hey, hows it going?" sometimes.

[xPANCAKEx]

The Fiery Tower

i think you're reading into things a bit much. I wouldn''t start raising any expectations just yet as it seems like you barely know each other, so i wouldn't read into her behavior too soon. However, nothing wrong with saying hey, and talking to her

Your friends may be trying to play match maker though, so if it continues for much longer, talk to one of them privately (the one who you deem most trustworthy - ie: the one who can keep their mouth shut) and ask them what the score is

[Arutema]

For me, the issue is where and how to even begin the process?

My job is 99 guys and 2 married women. I am not currently involved in a school of any sort, nor do I wish to be.

I understand bars are traditional, but A: I am not much of a drinker. B: I am new to the Fremont area and don't know of any here.

A series of disasters has left me averse to online dating or anything resembling it.

So what does that leave me with? Where can I meet single women who are looking for relationships?

[Pyrian]

Learn to dance. (Doesn't really matter if you're bad at it.)

Hobbies and hobby groups. I don't know your interests well enough to be more specific, but it's something where you might consider expanding your interests if necessary.

[ArlEammon]

If anyone's interested in talking with a traumatized playgrounder maturely and about adult, disturbing content I'm here. .. . You could PM if you wanted.

[Serpentine]

Could be worth trying the Depression and maybe the LGBT threads, too...

[Lioness]

Learn to dance. (Doesn't really matter if you're bad at it.)

Agreed. Most women love guys who can dance