Race Buffs - Guess this LA exactly!

[Jane_Smith]

I am making some alterations to the core races in a project I am working on. For this to work, all races will need to be within a +1 to +1.5ish LA level of strength due to the themes I want them to fill.


Elves: Same as core, but flight speed, 60 feet, good and fey traits.

Dwarves: Tremorsense 30 ft., Darkvision 120 ft., Scent, Light Senistivity, +2 natural armor, and Slam (1d6+str bonus natural attack - does 1d8 + 1.5 str bonus when used as part of a charge. Cannot be used with other manufactured weapons in part of a full attack as it requires the dwarf to 'roll up' and slam into their enemy... yes, its very metroid inspired, and yes, dwarves are now rolly-polly bugs with chitin-hides).

Gnome: Speak with animals (birds only - at will), Gluide (as the raptorian), +8 bonus to spot/search checks during daylight conditions, +2 bonus to craft and profession checks related to gems/jewelcrafting/crystals.

Halflings: +4 bonus to balance and jump checks, climb speed 20 ft., swim speed 20 ft., can breath underwater and above water just the same, Mimic - like a blue dragon's ability, darkvision 60 ft./low-light vision.

Orcs: Immunity to spells and abilities specifically detailed as a source of great pain or agony - such as Power Word: Pain, Bone Spurs, Boiling Blood, etc. Gains a +2 saving throw vs. all forms of spells and spell-like abilities, +1 natural armor. +4 str, +2 con, -2 wis, -2 cha. Remove darkvision/light senistivity. Gains faster healing rates (1 hour of rest is equivilent to 8 hours of full rest)/better stabilization (50% instead of 10% each round), +2 bonus to survival checks.

Humans: Gains Adaptation - allowing them to gain "Favored Terrain" like effects based on any location/regional type they spend at least one month in, losing their last one. Also gains +2 to any one ability score of their choice, and a +2 bonus to any two skills of their choice at 1st level, and those skills become class skills. They also gain the ability to increase their saving throws temporarily whenever they are subject to any effect that requires a saving throw - such as after being subject to a lightning bolt, successful save or not, their next reflex save is made at a +1 bonus if its made in the next hour. This doesnt stack - max of +1 bonus to any one save.

[Latronis]

flight is generally too useful to fit on a LA1ish race

[DaTedinator]

flight is generally too useful to fit on a LA1ish race

QFT. You give gnomes gliding, so you're obviously aware of it; if you want to keep elves below LA +2, you should really use something similar.

[Tavar]

Give them the raptorian

Perhaps something like the Skyborne's progression?

[Temotei]

Tremorsense is really good in combination with scent.

[Jane_Smith]

Im aware flight is good - but its because of the theme.

Elves are winged, their cummunities and combat styles reflect this even further then the core elves. Their treetop/tree-side homes require flight or one helluva good climber to get access to, and their top-notch archers and spellcasters because of it. Melee combat is looked down on as nothing more then a artistic flare, like martial arts, and has no partical use in actual warfare to them.

Gnomes are like short raven people. They have small winged arms and long beaks, covered head to toe in black feathers. They are very scientific. The reason they dont get flight at all is due to how short their wings are - they can use them to gluide short distances, but thats all. The reason talk-with animals only effects other birds is due to this reason.

Dwarves are bugs. Picture Umber Hulks - but medium size, and with backs/arms capable of sqeezing up into a large, slightly spiked ball capable of being rolled at high speeds sonic/metroid style for long distance travel/combat. I wanted to further amplify their connection to their underground enviroments - their eyesight is rather poor, especially in daylight, but they can see in darkness without any issue (if abit blurry), they can feel vibrations in the ground with pinpoint accuracy and they determine others by scent. Scent and vibrations/voice/etc is more important to them then looks.

Halflings are hairless, mouthless, grey-skinned, black-eyed alien looking critters with long lizard like tails and four arms that end in 3 fingers apeice. They talk by vibrating their gills at the side of their throat, which allows them to mimic any noise or voice they have ever heard. They can breathe underwater and air just fine, and usually live in coastal regions near cliffs, or sea caverns.


Anyway, you get the basic rundown. I do not feel flight is that big of a concern, I honestly do not see why people constantly gripe about it. So... people with melee cant hit you... oook... guess its their fault for not packing a bow? As for bypassing some adventure stuff like chasims, pitfalls, towers, etc? Guess the dm is lacking imagination if he doesnt have a cliff racer or something come by or some gargoyal/etc...

As you can see, each of the races besides gnomes and humans have their little niche in enviroments that they can bypass without issue other races would have difficutly with - elves = sky, dwarves = underground, halflings = underwater/cliffs, orcs = natural hazards, so on.

(Cliffracer = Annoying #)%#()!%(!%!%(!()#%() from elder scrolls III: morrowind. If you played it, you get what I mean, if you havent, you simply cannot understand the depth of its agonizing pressence.)

[Tavar]

So, if you always make circumstances that penalize flight, flight isn't a problem? That's like saying wizards aren't overpowered as long as you have a couple casters following the party and counterspelling every spell he casts. Why give them flight if they can't actually use it?

Also, flight gives a huge advantage in terms of mobility, which is something many combatants need. Yeah, there's always ranged combat, but unless you're focused on ranged combat to an extreme degree, you're about as useful as the wizard who's reduced to using a crossbow.

[Jane_Smith]

-shrug- If you cant use enviromental/etc conditions to your advantage then you kinda deserve to get peppered. Encounter a flying enemy? Go into a cave, behind a tree to keep cover, or heck, go inside a building if theirs one -anywhere- nearby. Sooner or later, if they are -really- intent on killing you, they will have to come down, at least to rest.

Plus - flying archers still need arrows and flying casters still got spells per day. Sooner or later, they will run out, and if they have to resort to melee fly-by's, then ready an attack action in reponse to them flying by.

[Tavar]

If your character can't handle someone going behind a tree, going into a cave, or into a building, they don't deserve to win. Flight merely gives an extremely powerful set of extra options, it doesn't replace the need for though.

Non flying ones have the same problems, though. And yet, unless you're doing an endurance run, it won't come up.

[Mulletmanalive]

might be worth including that elves will be even more fragile as a result of their wings. The need for lightened construction causes endless problems to many species [some kinds of birds are actually capable of breaking their own bones if they panic, due to their strength].

Obvious answer to the flying problem...make Ranged Trip attacks a standard manoeuvre and remove that stupid "their wings cause them to glide if they are knocked from flight" thing. Suddenly it becomes a risky prospect.

[Jane_Smith]

Well said. Issues with wings;

1: Armor needs to be customized to allow space for wings. Elves cannot wear medium or heavy armor or carry medium or heavy loads and still maintain the ability to fly.

2: Elves do not 'stiffen' or anything if not unconcious, killed, put to sleep or made helpless/etc in the air. If you disable their ability to fly, they fall just like anyone else.

3: Elves wings do regrow over the course of a month. While clipping their wings proves nearly pointless except for a short-term grounding, I am making a elven flaw for elves who were born with warped wings, etc, and cannot fly. Elves also know a way to graft/burn (and cattle-prod/mark) the flesh near the wings to permanently clip others - which they often use on criminals or outcasts they deem unworthy to fly. So roughly 2% of the elven population is born flightless, and most human city-elves have are such elves or exiled ones. Anyway - its up to the dm, but called shots to the wings, etc, can leave a elf grounded fairly easily. But that asumes you have a ranged weapon.

4: Wind is a b*tch. Wind based spells, weather, etc can keep a elf grounded for some time.

[Tavar]

Still, unless you purposefully weaken yourself by taking the flaw, the ability is way to strong for Level 1 play. Make it scaling, and it's good.

[Jane_Smith]

Sorry, not making it scale. Flying is something that is vital to my elves in this setting for their communities, etc. Young are expected to shed their wings and begin to fly roughly at 12 to 13 years old - and if they cant fly within the month, their is something wrong. I wont have 20-30 or 500 year old elves who cant fly 'just because' they havent reached level 5 or more.

Not to mention the entire scaling theme of raptorians was retarded and ill-designed. Oh yes, lets make a flying race - WHERE ONLY 10% OF A NPC VILLAGE CAN FLY!

Well, that wont cutt it in my world - not everyone in a elven city or village is going to be level 5+, yet they will be expected to FLY to get around.

[Milskidasith]

Sorry, not making it scale. Flying is something that is vital to my elves in this setting for their communities, etc. Young are expected to shed their wings and begin to fly roughly at 12 to 13 years old - and if they cant fly within the month, their is something wrong. I wont have 20-30 or 500 year old elves who cant fly 'just because' they havent reached level 5 or more.

Not to mention the entire scaling theme of raptorians was retarded and ill-designed. Oh yes, lets make a flying race - WHERE ONLY 10% OF A NPC VILLAGE CAN FLY!

Well, that wont cutt it in my world - not everyone in a elven city or village is going to be level 5+, yet they will be expected to FLY to get around.

Give them glide and a +30~50 to jump checks (if need be to prevent abuse, don't let this be used with anything that benefits from jump like leap attack or whatever). That's still essentially flight, especially if they have a high base land speed.

[Vaynor]

Sorry, not making it scale. Flying is something that is vital to my elves in this setting for their communities, etc. Young are expected to shed their wings and begin to fly roughly at 12 to 13 years old - and if they cant fly within the month, their is something wrong. I wont have 20-30 or 500 year old elves who cant fly 'just because' they havent reached level 5 or more.

Not to mention the entire scaling theme of raptorians was retarded and ill-designed. Oh yes, lets make a flying race - WHERE ONLY 10% OF A NPC VILLAGE CAN FLY!

Well, that wont cutt it in my world - not everyone in a elven city or village is going to be level 5+, yet they will be expected to FLY to get around.

Well then you can have elves just be overpowered, or give them LA +2. They wouldn't be "level 5+," just equivalent in power to a level 3 character at level 1. LA just balances power, you can either give them flight at LA +2 or a scaling/gliding flight ability at LA +1.

[Milskidasith]

Scaling with it starting out with a +80 to jump checks for vertical distance and glide (so they can jump 20 feet essentially at will, and glide), with getting flight at level 3 (when a Wizard can have it with Alter Self) would work out, I think; a few weaker NPCs wouldn't have perfect flight, but they'd easily be able to jump around 20~25 feet in the air and glide around from there, well enough.

[Jane_Smith]

Last time I checked, flying was +1, not +2. Where are you getting this "flying is +2 la" stuff?

[Temotei]

There's no set LA for flying.

[Latronis]

Last time I checked, flying was +1, not +2. Where are you getting this "flying is +2 la" stuff?

Where do you get +1 from?

Avarial from rof are LA+3

something like raptorian don't get it until 5th

If you use 3rd material the winged template on a standard phb elf is LA+2 (though it's really too good for LA+2)

Alter self can get you flight at level 3, actual flight spells dont start coming into play until level 5.

[Milskidasith]

There's no set LA for flying.

The Winged template from Savage Species gets you flight for LA +2, though you also get a dex boost (+4) and a wis boost (+2) for no apparant reason. Maneuverability is based on dex, though I don't see how anybody could ever get clumsy maneuverability (+4 dex template, requires a dex of 6 or lower to have clumsy flight... I guess if you take ability damage/already have 1 Dex?)

[Temotei]

...raptoran.

That is all.

The Winged template from Savage Species gets you flight for LA +2, though you also get a dex boost (+4) and a wis boost (+2) for no apparant reason. Maneuverability is based on dex, though I don't see how anybody could ever get clumsy maneuverability (+4 dex template, requires a dex of 6 or lower to have clumsy flight... I guess if you take ability damage/already have 1 Dex?)

Forgot about that template. Haven't been around that book for a while.

I suppose getting rid of the Dex and Wis would be around LA +1.

[Milskidasith]

...raptoran.

That is all.


Forgot about that template. Haven't been around that book for a while.

I suppose getting rid of the Dex and Wis would be around LA +1.

Again, it's one of those templates that's great at level 1 (with flight), and terrible at higher levels (who wants to be level 19 with wings, when you can buy wings for almost no price and be level 20?)

Again, at LA 1, having it before anything else gets flight is pretty powerful, since flight is a huge tactical advantage.

[Temotei]

Again, it's one of those templates that's great at level 1 (with flight), and terrible at higher levels (who wants to be level 19 with wings, when you can buy wings for almost no price and be level 20?)

Again, at LA 1, having it before anything else gets flight is pretty powerful, since flight is a huge tactical advantage.

Plus, you can buy off level adjustment.

[Milskidasith]

Plus, you can buy off level adjustment.

I always forget about that.

Again, LA 1 just for flight is possibly too low, but if it's not abused it could work... but it takes no work to abuse flight (get really high, drop rocks). Combine with the other minor bonuses elves get in this setting, and they are very powerful for LA 1, if not LA 2, at least at low levels.

[Tavar]

For the winged template, I think the designer meant to have your maneuverability based of your pre-templated dex. At least, that's the only way I can think that it's reasonable.

Also, raptoran's don't get flight at level 1. Their ability scales up to eventual flight. I believe you can speed up the process a bit (for instance, like in the race I linked to), but permanent flight shouldn't be given before level 3 or 5,

[Latronis]

Hell whack it on the phb elf and you only need to buy\roll a dex of 11 to get perfect maneuverability(17 dex). Remove the stat boosts and it's still worth a LA+2 adjustment

[Milskidasith]

For the winged template, I think the designer meant to have your maneuverability based of your pre-templated dex. At least, that's the only way I can think that it's reasonable.

It's Savage Species. Anthrobat is LA 0 and having wings gives you bonus wisdom. The designers were high on even more copious amounts of LSD and coke than normal for WotC.

[Latronis]

It's Savage Species. Anthrobat is LA 0 and having wings gives you bonus wisdom. The designers were high on even more copious amounts of LSD and coke than normal for WotC.

I can understand the dex boost, though should probably only be +2.

[Milskidasith]

I can understand the dex boost, though should probably only be +2.

Eh, I don't care about the dex boost. The wisdom is what I found stupid.

[Latronis]

Eh, I don't care about the dex boost. The wisdom is what I found stupid.

Because angels have wings obviously