GitP Worldbuilding Project

[erictheredd]

Sharlaq society-----

we've decided that they are "traditional", slightly less technologically advanced than the other races, build large temples" (which really sound like they're made of stone), and have at least two biologically distinctive branches. they're largest cities are apparently in swamps, and they seem to be carnivorous, with an emphasis on aquatic life.

Starting with their agricultural base, I would think they subsist off of large "fish farms"--- water enclosed with nets were the fish are protected from other predators until they are ready to be harvested. that would be the riverkin.

The seakin on the other hand, would be more of hunters than farmers, and might even be veiwed as barbaric by their more sedentary river cousins. In both cases, I immagine nets being a very important tool, though the riverkin use it as fences and the seakin would use it as a hunting tool.

(not to distract from the linguistic conversation, but I think only some of us can participate in it)

[Tulio d Bard]

@erictheredd: that's pretty much the way I think of them.

(not to distract from the linguistic conversation, but I think only some of us can participate in it)

I guess we could create another thread just for the Mayadiles' Language (a subject that isn't much important for the project), so that things don't get confusing here. Also, It would be easier for the Playgrounders to join it (since one willing to help in a conlanguage, could not even enter our "GitP Worldbuilding Project" thread to notice it).

I just made something for Sharlaq ambientation (I’ve never written anything like this in English before, so tell me how it is):

Spoiler

Show

Every day, with the nightfall, a creepy silence comes down while a cloaked Sharlak crosses the city. None dares to speak to him, or even look in his eyes, and the very souls of those nearby begin to tremble when he comes. For he is the Black Guard, Mother’s favored warrior, and dread shall be the only thing that’s felt when he walks through the streets. Although he wields no weapon, all the townsfolk know that no harm will be done while he’s watching, and watching is his only duty. Being chosen for this sacred task since his birth, he fears no evil, as he is blessed by the Gods Themselves. Every single night, be it raining or not, he stays by the Black Loch – which he’s named after – and stares its deep dark waters, as quiet as the sky above him. And when a young hatchling asks the elders what he does there, just watching the still surface of the lake night after night, the answer that is heard is: “He waits for the Beast”.

Note: I think the Crocoalts could call their planet Mother (in their language), and even consider it a Goddess.

Still on languages, we should check if it would be possible to pronounce those vowels on the 3rd Declension's endings having no lips (see here), though I'd rather discuss it in the new thread.

[Maximum Zersk]

A new thread just for languages? Hmm...

HMMMM...

HMMMMM....

HMMMMAAMM-- okay.

About roundedness: I'll just change them to the unrounded versions then.

[Maximum Zersk]

Language thread is up.

And the hatchling in the Ambiention made me think. How do the Sharlaq reproduce? External Eggs? And how would the society look at it? A sacred event? Just another happening?

[erictheredd]

well, The first thing that comes to my mind is external eggs, much like RL crocodiles. The main "problem" with a method of reproduction like that is numbers and nurturing. If one female can create fifty children, even if its every three years, the infant mortality rate will by necessity by atrocious. The population would boom, run out of food, and die.

I see a few ways around this:

1) each female lays very few eggs.
2) a few females lay all the eggs.
3) the infant mortality rate is very high, which to me would imply that mayadiles either don't nurture, have very efficient predators who pray on eggs and young (a disease could work as well), or have lots and lots of genetic problems

my opinions on the options

1) simple, boring, strait forward. Mayadiles nurture their own young, and either lay few eggs, discard most of them, or lay very rarely. If its a case of rarely, a pregnant female could be celebrated with a festival, and when the eggs hatch everyone takes a hatching home. Or they could have a human reproductive rate.

2) This would result in "hive-like" communities, where the breeding females hold great status (if not rule) The children would be taken care of by the whole community. Why only a few females breed.... it might be tradition. maybe they don't mature until the age of three hundred.

3) efficient predators: rats. maybe larger than normal, but small, sneaky fast egg killers looking for nests. other possibilities include snakes, birds, or giant lizards (monitor lizards eat TONS of Crocodile eggs).

Or it could be that the young fend for themselves until they reach a certain size, when they are adopted into a tribe through some ceremony. this would imply there might be rouge Mayadiles who never learned about civilization.....

Disease, whether genetic or contagious, would be a good way to hold down the population. Hey, it was the last thing holding back the human population. Childhood diseases could take a tremendous toll on eggs and hatchlings until they acquire immunities to dozens of diseases.


I don't know why, but I see the sharlaq society as being "in decay". They would view birthing as a triumph against the forces holding them down. but thats just my feel on it

[Tulio d Bard]

Language thread is up.

And the hatchling in the Ambiention made me think. How do the Sharlaq reproduce? External Eggs? And how would the society look at it? A sacred event? Just another happening?

First thing I thought: Spartan-like (at least 300-like), with all that hatchling selection, or however it's called, and war training.

But then I thought it would fit better something maternal/fraternal/paternal, maybe American Indian-like (you know, 'cause they're based on Mesoamerican societies). Though they're supposed to be a warrior people (or aren't they?), there's no problem in being kind with their own. The young Crocs are protected by the old ones with their own lives, and they all work together for a better society. On the other hand, they could have human slaves, or battle with the Saltlings or even with other "tribes".

And I don't know about the egg thing. Are they reptiles or mammals?

[Maximum Zersk]

I like the caring towards each other. It fits with the Sharlaq's more peaceful society.

Well, peaceful by that world's standards, at least.

And that is a good question. ARE they mammals? Could it be that gnomes, humans, and sharlaq all came from a proto-species that split into three different groups millions of years ago?

[Tulio d Bard]

I think I just spent too much time writing while chatting, and completely lost erictheredd's post. Well, I think the idea showed on the movie/graphic novel 300 (selecting only the "perfect" babies) would help controlling the population.

I like the caring towards each other. It fits with the Sharlaq's more peaceful society.

Well, peaceful by that world's standards, at least.

And that is a good question. ARE they mammals? Could it be that gnomes, humans, and sharlaq all came from a proto-species that split into three different groups millions of years ago?

I think I've mentioned something like that before...yeah, here it is:

Maybe the Gods divided themselves to protect their favored sons and, with time, different laws and customs were taken.

Saying that they came from a single proto-species and then, following the Gods they worshiped, got different with time.

[CWater]

Saying that they came from a single proto-species and then, following the Gods they worshiped, got different with time.

But how did they became otherwise so lizardlike? :)

Hi! Just poking my nose in here again, if I'm allowed. Well, my idea would be that maybe they had external eggs and each a female laid like 5-8 eggs at the same time, but could only do so in every five years or so. Also, always like 1-3 eggs remain unhatched; it could be a reason for big celebration if all the eggs from a same...brood(?sorry, not sure if that word is right) survived. The infant mortality rate would probably be high too as it was for humans in past (and still is in some parts of the world).

But this is just my thoughts.
(I humbly apologise for all the grammatical errors*bow*)

[erictheredd]

But how did they became otherwise so lizardlike? :)

do we even need to decide? and do we need to decide how they got split up? it could have been nature (if they were originally the same, I'm not sure how I would like that). It could have been the gods, (though each race would have its own opinion as to which god. Hey, the Sharlaq's principle deity might not be the one in charge, but the one who created them and takes care of them). It could have been some random or ancient magic.

there could even be an argument over who is the closest to the original species.

if they lay eggs, is there a special relationship between all the sharlaq from the same brood? I would assume so. Imagine a society were everyone has a non-identical twin or two.

[Maximum Zersk]

Hmm...

Hey guys, you know what I noticed? The three races can be replaced with Warhammer 40k armies or groups instead.

Sharlaq - Space Marines
Humans - Psykers
Gnomes - Techpriests, of course!

[Tulio d Bard]

Hmm...

Hey guys, you know what I noticed? The three races can be replaced with Warhammer 40k armies or groups instead.

Sharlaq - Space Marines
Humans - Psykers
Gnomes - Techpriests, of course!

I don't know much about Warhammer, but given the names, I think there would be some similarities. Is there anything we could use from the game?

[ref]

Probably, but we don't want to alert GW here.

[Dashwood]

well, The first thing that comes to my mind is external eggs, much like RL crocodiles. The main "problem" with a method of reproduction like that is numbers and nurturing. If one female can create fifty children, even if its every three years, the infant mortality rate will by necessity by atrocious. The population would boom, run out of food, and die.

I see a few ways around this:

1) each female lays very few eggs.
2) a few females lay all the eggs.
3) the infant mortality rate is very high, which to me would imply that mayadiles either don't nurture, have very efficient predators who pray on eggs and young (a disease could work as well), or have lots and lots of genetic problems.

Having just finished Edgar Burroughs Rice's series of "John Carter of Mars", I can see where this would work well. While this world did have a high mortality rate, they had mass community incubators and raised the children as part of a community and not from individual parents, so all got the same treatment as well as education and training. A goal of other tribes was to find and destroy incubators to lessen their rival's offspring and help them gain an advantage. It's kind of savage, but works in a reasonably believable aspect.

[Maximum Zersk]

I don't know much about Warhammer, but given the names, I think there would be some similarities. Is there anything we could use from the game?

Well, there's the soul-crushing, nihilistic despair of the setting, but where's the fun in that?

Though now I can't help but imagine the Sharlaq yelling "FOR THE EMPEROR!!!" and charging the nearest green thing.

Anyways, I think I'll try to expand on the Sharlaq, or as they call themselves, Mother's Children. I think it works with the whole Matriarchal Religion that most of them have.

Anyway, onto the explanation. Note that this is all on the spot, to kind of follow my thought train, and see where it takes me.

Okay, what we have now is that the Sharlaq are tall, anthropomorphic crocodilian beings. They live in a sort of warrior-farming society, and are vaguely based off the Aztecs in premise and linguistics. I use the word 'vaguely', because the only thing that they have in common right now is the sounds. Anyway, aside from that, we have two groups, the Seakin and the Riverkin. Further on, there are the northern Sharlaq, and the southern Sharlaq. With this, we have four or five major groups of races: Northern River, Southern River, Northern Sea, Central Sea, and Southern Sea. These groups are general. Sort of how some will divide human ethnicity into three different groups of Mongoloid,Negroid, and Caucasoid. Or, as I think a better comparison would be, the different ethnicities of Europe: Hispanic, Celtic, Greek, and Scandinavian. Again, extremely general groups, and I know I'm missing out on a lot of groups.

Moving on, let's focus on the Riverkin for a second. What we have now is that they live in swamps, and live off of farms of some sort. Their architecture is supposed to be some sort of under-swamps. I don't know what you guys meant, but the images that come into my head when I think of the word "under-swamp" are of big, stone, pyramid-shaped buildings built just under the surface of the water. I'm guessing that maybe they're built at the edge of the swamps, or connected to islands and stuff, and the area in between would be streets of sorts. The buildings could also go underground, with tunnels, and such. Now, one big question is whether the buildings are dry inside. If they were, that could be really interesting, and could work by building the entrance on the underside of a wall. That way, the water wouldn't flow into the building, but it would still be connected to it. The only problem is how they would drain all of it out, but that's relatively minor, and can be solved easily by the fact that the Sharlaq are muscled, or at least powerful. Not sure about you guys, but I like the idea.

I remember hearing from someone that the idea of the farms was that they could be fish farms of sorts. I think that would work out.They could domesticate the native fish, or even the native birds of the area. (Suddenly, I am assualted by the thought of a commercial of a fish, asking "Got Roe?" ) It would be somewhat interesting that the Riverkin Sharlaq would cultivate the aquatic vertabrates.

Now, I was thinking of maybe a reason myth for the Riverkin. A sort of reason they came up with to why they settled in the swamps. Now, I'll try to add a sort of grain of truth in the story. How about, in the ancient days (before the two subspecies split), they saw premonitions of clumsily flying demons (the early gnome flying machines, perhaps?). The Sharlaq would argue over what the message exactly meant. Some of them said that it was a message to go further inland. They left the rest of them, following the water spirit's guidance (the midgratory pattern of the fish) and discovered the swamps, their promised land.

But now I have to go soon. I"ll finish up on the rest when I come back.

[Tulio d Bard]

Having just finished Edgar Burroughs Rice's series of "John Carter of Mars", I can see where this would work well. While this world did have a high mortality rate, they had mass community incubators and raised the children as part of a community and not from individual parents, so all got the same treatment as well as education and training. A goal of other tribes was to find and destroy incubators to lessen their rival's offspring and help them gain an advantage. It's kind of savage, but works in a reasonably believable aspect.

Well, I thought of them as a race that is violent, but only with other races, as if they were trying to make their Empire grow stronger. (Kind of Redcloak and the (hob-)goblins). On the other hand, Sea and Riverkin have some rivalries (is that right?).

Moving on, let's focus on the Riverkin for a second. What we have now is that they live in swamps, and live off of farms of some sort. Their architecture is supposed to be some sort of under-swamps. I don't know what you guys meant, but the images that come into my head when I think of the word "under-swamp" are of big, stone, pyramid-shaped buildings built just under the surface of the water. I'm guessing that maybe they're built at the edge of the swamps, or connected to islands and stuff, and the area in between would be streets of sorts. The buildings could also go underground, with tunnels, and such. Now, one big question is whether the buildings are dry inside. If they were, that could be really interesting, and could work by building the entrance on the underside of a wall. That way, the water wouldn't flow into the building, but it would still be connected to it. The only problem is how they would drain all of it out, but that's relatively minor, and can be solved easily by the fact that the Sharlaq are muscled, or at least powerful. Not sure about you guys, but I like the idea.

I don’t believe “big, stone, pyramid-shaped buildings built just under the surface of the water” would work well. It would be difficult to breath. Being “at the edge of the swamps, or connected to islands and stuff” sounds better. Then we build “the entrance on the underside of a wall”. I was thinking that most of the buildings would be out of the water, with just some dungeons and basements under. Some corridors, though, have succumbed under the passing years, leaving many rooms inaccessible, and many others in great danger (water dripping from the ceiling, ponds all over the floor, etc).

Now, I was thinking of maybe a reason myth for the Riverkin. A sort of reason they came up with to why they settled in the swamps. Now, I'll try to add a sort of grain of truth in the story. How about, in the ancient days (before the two subspecies split), they saw premonitions of clumsily flying demons (the early gnome flying machines, perhaps?). The Sharlaq would argue over what the message exactly meant. Some of them said that it was a message to go further inland. They left the rest of them, following the water spirit's guidance (the midgratory pattern of the fish) and discovered the swamps, their promised land.

It fits with the idea that the Seakin is a conservative group, while the Riverkin is a branch that came from the original species.

We should choose if the first Crocs were River or Seakin. I think the Sea ones could come first, and then some went up the rivers and became a new subspecies. Life in the fresh water was easier, with lots of big mamals everywhere to feed them, smaller predators, shorter distances, etc., which explains their reduced size and strength. Saltlings, being very conservative, don't like their relatives' way of life. Sea-crocs are bigger, stronger and faster, while the River-people developed some divine magic (this can be explained saying that when coming up the river, Crocs found some ancient temples in the swamps, which Gods are now praised by them). Thus:

Sea: big, strong, agile, agressive, conservative, nomad;
River: archtects, priests, sacrifices;

Much of the Origins Myth would be like religions nowadays, with the original meanings lost, some parts forgotten, and impossible to say if they're true or not. Taking that 'thing' I wrote as an example, there's no proof that there's really something in the Black Loch, but traditionally there's always a Black Guard doing his job.

Just agree with the rest.

[Maximum Zersk]

I don’t believe “big, stone, pyramid-shaped buildings built just under the surface of the water” would work well. It would be difficult to breath. Being “at the edge of the swamps, or connected to islands and stuff” sounds better. Then we build “the entrance on the underside of a wall”. I was thinking that most of the buildings would be out of the water, with just some dungeons and basements under. Some corridors, though, have succumbed under the passing years, leaving many rooms inaccessible, and many others in great danger (water dripping from the ceiling, ponds all over the floor, etc).

Really? I thought that the Sharlaq were going to be amphibious. Or did that mean that they could survive for longer periods under water?

Much of the Origins Myth would be like religions nowadays, with the original meanings lost, some parts forgotten, and impossible to say if they're true or not. Taking that 'thing' I wrote as an example, there's no proof that there's really something in the Black Loch, but traditionally there's always a Black Guard doing his job.

Ah, yeah. Good point.

Now, onto the Seakin.

So what we know is that the Seakin are nomadic. The reason is because that they have to follow the migration of the fish. Also, I'm thinking that they'd be a lot rougher than the Riverkin, for some reason. What do you guys think for them?

[minored108]

Just butting my head in for a moment: the RIverkin's dwellings could be like beaver lodges! Not in looks or constuction, they would be stony more Mesoamerican looking structures, but in function. Beavers can't live under water, although they can hold there breath for long periods of time, much like I imagine the Riverkin. Beaver's "lodges" are usually located in water, but near a bank. They have an entrance in the bottom, so that there's no water in th actual building.

Also the fish farms could be akin the beaver dams, although the might be stone or something, not sticks, the keep a deep wide area of water in which they keep and farm the fish.
Just some ideas.

[Maximum Zersk]

Just butting my head in for a moment: the RIverkin's dwellings could be like beaver lodges! Not in looks or constuction, they would be stony more Mesoamerican looking structures, but in function. Beavers can't live under water, although they can hold there breath for long periods of time, much like I imagine the Riverkin. Beaver's "lodges" are usually located in water, but near a bank. They have an entrance in the bottom, so that there's no water in th actual building.

Also the fish farms could be akin the beaver dams, although the might be stone or something, not sticks, the keep a deep wide area of water in which they keep and farm the fish.
Just some ideas.

Very similar to the idea that I had. Who knows, though. We could have either openings on land and building underground, or openings underwater, and the buildings filled with air. Although, the former would be easier for inter-racial reasons. It would be pretty hard for a humans or dwarves to get in. It was a good thought, though.

[minored108]

Well, if I'm correct, the races seem pretty hostile to one another. The Riuverkin might not see a need for their homes to be accessible to other races.

[Maximum Zersk]

Well, if I'm correct, the races seem pretty hostile to one another. The Riuverkin might not see a need for their homes to be accessible to other races.

It all depends, really. Different nations would have different relations. For example, Humie Nation A might be at war with Sharlaq Nation A, but it also might be allied with Sharlaq Nation B, and in a trade agreement with Sharlaq Nation C. Humie Nation B might be at war with Sharlaq Nation B and C, and Humie Nation A, but allied with Sharlaq Nation D. Make sense?

[Tulio d Bard]

I like the lodges idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Beaver_lodge.jpg

Kinda work with our previous decisions. Even amongst the non-hostile tribes, they could have most of the important buildings this way and the others more accessible. On the other side, the hostile ones could use some land-opening places to make diplomatic meetings and this sort of things.

I was thinking about Saltlings, but I'll wait the decision on this subject.

[Maximum Zersk]

Sounds good. We'll have it that way, then. Beaver lodges it is, then!

[Maximum Zersk]

Thinking a bit about their religion. What I got is a mixture between polytheistic and pantheistic. Here I go.

Mother:

The Sharlaq call the earth Mother. They believe that every being is a part of her. That includes lesser "gods", animals, the sapient races, etc.

Pantheon:

So there is a pantheon of "gods". The word god isn't exactly right. Technically they are personifications of different concepts given sentience and sapience. The gods have domain over multiple things, obviously.

The god of the swamp, fish, trees, food, war, and winter. The Frozen Sun. When he appears, he usually takes the form of a blue point of light.

The god of the sea, temptation, change, imagination, home, and fall. The Sea of Chaos. When he appears, he usually takes the form of an ever-changing body of fluid thought. (I'll let you imagine what that looks like. )

The goddess of honour, brevity, mountains, order, the moon, and the journey of death. The Death-light. When she appears, she appears as the moon.

The god of love, blindness, time, the clouds, discord, and the sky. The Blind Seer. When he appears, he takes the form of an elderly Sharlaq with a bandage over his eyes.

The goddess of nothing, perception, and the truth under the veil of reality. The Rip. When she appears, she takes the form of a tear in reality.

The god of death, life, deception, honesty. The Bloody Head. When he appears, he takes the form of a skull in a sea of blood.

Well, that's all I've got for their gods. What do you think?

[ref]

Seems pretty good collection to me.

[Tulio d Bard]

Yeah, I liked them. It only seems to lack summer and spring gods.

The god of family, fertility, duty, tradition, society, growing, breeding and spring. The Golden Spirit. When he appears, he takes the form of a swamp cypress with a light golden glow.

The goddess of work, travel, redemption, recovery, water, destruction and summer. The Flow. When she appears, she takes the form of a huge stone, sometimes covered with moss.

Feel free to change them.

I believe the Saltlings would follow only Mother, considering that the others were "found" upriver or that some Saltlings followed the "new gods" into the swamps, becoming the Riverlings after some time. Also, Saltlings' Mother would be much wilder and more energetic.

[Maximum Zersk]

Yeah, I liked them. It only seems to lack summer and spring gods.

The god of family, fertility, duty, tradition, society, growing, breeding and spring. The Golden Spirit. When he appears, he takes the form of a swamp cypress with a light golden glow.

The goddess of work, travel, redemption, recovery, water, destruction and summer. The Flow. When she appears, she takes the form of a huge stone, sometimes covered with moss.

Feel free to change them.

I believe the Saltlings would follow only Mother, considering that the others were "found" upriver or that some Saltlings followed the "new gods" into the swamps, becoming the Riverlings after some time. Also, Saltlings' Mother would be much wilder and more energetic.

Sounds cool. If you don't mind, I'm thinking of giving The Flow domain over the Sun. I'm also giving The Bloody-Head domain over land.

Possibly, the Riverkin founded their beliefs more upriver. I think I have a beginning myth. Here I go.

-----

In the beginning there was naught but Mother, the first spirit. Then, she split into two, the ones we know as the Sea of Chaos and The Blind Seer. With them, the sky and the sea were born. Next to come was The Bloody Head, out of the Sea of Chaos. And with him, the land was born.

For this time, the three beings were genderless, for they had no other gender to be compared to. Then, The Bloody Head fashioned The Flow out of the hand of The Blind Seer It started raining for timeless ages, until the seas were filled with the liquid water.

This was how the world was created.

-----

I'll work on the rest as I think about it. But I think I've got a good creation myth. What d'you guys think?

[minored108]

How's about coming up with the deity's names in Sharlaq-ish. I'm not familiar with the language y'all are coming up with, but it might be cool to see the deitie's names in their own tongue.

[Maximum Zersk]

How's about coming up with the deity's names in Sharlaq-ish. I'm not familiar with the language y'all are coming up with, but it might be cool to see the deitie's names in their own tongue.

Oh, don't worry. We'll do it. Once we've at least started on the lexicon.

[Tulio d Bard]

Sounds cool. If you don't mind, I'm thinking of giving The Flow domain over the Sun. I'm also giving The Bloody-Head domain over land.

Possibly, the Riverkin founded their beliefs more upriver. I think I have a beginning myth. Here I go.

-----

In the beginning there was naught but Mother, the first spirit. Then, she split into two, the ones we know as the Sea of Chaos and The Blind Seer. With them, the sky and the sea were born. Next to come was The Bloody Head, out of the Sea of Chaos. And with him, the land was born.

For this time, the three beings were genderless, for they had no other gender to be compared to. Then, The Bloody Head fashioned The Flow out of the hand of The Blind Seer It started raining for timeless ages, until the seas were filled with the liquid water.

This was how the world was created.

-----

I'll work on the rest as I think about it. But I think I've got a good creation myth. What d'you guys think?

It's pretty good, actually. The main non-living parts of a world are there.