GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

[ref]

That's quite good. Sentences end up being quite the mouthful, but that's intended, hehe. Once we have this finished, someone should gather all the grammar/lexicon and put that in an organized way somewhere.

[Tulio d Bard]

And talking about the tenses, I think it would be nice if we had these ones:

• Legendary past: used to tell legends, stories, myths, etc.;
• Ancient past: used when the action took place a long time ago or in an indefinite time;
• Recent past: used when the action took place recently (one week ago tops);
• Present: duh;
• Future: used when the action will take place in the future;
• Prophesied future: used to tell predictions, prophecies, augurs, etc.

And probably we'll need some continuous tenses. What do you think, guys?

[Maximum Zersk]

That's quite good. Sentences end up being quite the mouthful, but that's intended, hehe. Once we have this finished, someone should gather all the grammar/lexicon and put that in an organized way somewhere.

I'll get to that right away. The grammar is in the file that I'll put in the first post. The lexicon will be in a new file.

Also, those are some pretty good tenses.

Moving on with the lexicon.

Nouns
{TABLE]English|Sharlaq|Gender
Flow|Jeqqjiqq|Feminine
Season|Eqaj|Neuter
Spring|Qoikheqaj|Masculine
Summer|Tsekheqaj|Feminine
Fall|Chokheqaj|Neuter
Winter|Ngakheqaj|Masculine
Magic|Jenjaqetsay|Neuter
Nature|Jenjaq|Masculine
Being|Sharlaq*|Feminine
Home|Oudateqajnik|Masculine
Building|Qajnik|Feminine
Village|Dashen|Neuter
Town|Dashenatill|Neuter
City|Dashenatillatill|Neuter
God|Soreg|Feminine
Power|Etsej|Neuter
[/TABLE]


_{* I'm guessing that Sharlaq would be the word for being. The Sharlaq themselves would have a longer name for themselves. Like Tsekhetsharlaq, or First Being.
** A Sharlaq could have more than one nest of babies, maybe? If they do, then this is what the hatchlings would call their brothers from the other nest.}

Numerals
NOTE: Sharlaq use Base 9, I'm thinking. Shall we go with it?
{TABLE]English|Base 10|Sharlaq|Base 9
One|1|Tsekh|1
Two|2|Chokh|2
Three|3|Ngakh|3
Four|4|Qoikh|4
Five|5|Shakh|5
Six|6|Saikh|6
Seven|7|Naikh|7
Eight|8|Laikh|8
Nine|9|Erekh|10
Ten|10|Erekhatsekh|11
Eleven|11|Erekhachokh|12
Twelve|12|Erekhangakh|13
[/TABLE]

...ad infinitum. How does that seem? I'll add larger numbers like a hundred, thousand and such later on. Who knows, maybe in the Proto-language, they had no need for an order of magnitude larger than a thousand. (Or, 729 for you Base-10 users. )

Honorifics
Now, how about this? I'm thinking of a list of honorifics that they would use.
{TABLE]Sharlaq|Meaning/Usage
|Used to addresss Siblings.
|Used to address beings from a different nest [br] but are still related to you. (See above.)
|Used to address Elders.
|Used to address cousins
|Used to address largely unrelated Sharlaq.
|Used to address foreigners.
[/TABLE]

Nothing yet, but I'll think of something.

Verbs
{TABLE]English|Sharlaq
To reside|Oudatek
[/TABLE]

[ref]

Base 9, eh? interesting.

The seasons are called season one, season two, so on. If there are three months in each season (is that true, btw?) and if we associate moons with months as is usual, then we'd have Tsekheqajtsekhdenetairajoqqul to Qolkheqajngakhdenetairajoqqul. Good luck with learning those!

[Tulio d Bard]

You could also make honorifcs for political leaders and for religious leaders, or one honorific for leaders in general. Well, maybe the political leader is also the religious one.

Base 9, eh? interesting.

The seasons are called season one, season two, so on. If there are three months in each season (is that true, btw?) and if we associate moons with months as is usual, then we'd have Tsekheqajtsekhdenetairajoqqul to Qolkheqajngakhdenetairajoqqul. Good luck with learning those!

I can't wait to see my friends' faces as I speak those in place of the months' names.

[EDIT]Yeah, base-9 seems ok to me. And I believe we won't need longer numbers in a while.[/EDIT]

[ref]

yeah, you don't usually need large specific numbers. When large numbers are used are usually round numbers. Their round numbers are gonna be different from ours, but still they will use their large round numbers mostly.

[Maximum Zersk]

Base 9, eh? interesting.

The seasons are called season one, season two, so on. If there are three months in each season (is that true, btw?) and if we associate moons with months as is usual, then we'd have Tsekheqajtsekhdenetairajoqqul to Qolkheqajngakhdenetairajoqqul. Good luck with learning those!

Heh, that'll be fun.

I'm seeing what other words to put in the lexicon. Also, I have a Google Doc of the lexicon I'm trying to fill with what we've got.

[Tulio d Bard]

What if -tal was added to a number to give an ordinal meaning?

Ngakh -> Three
Ngakhtal -> Third

We could also ignore ordinals using sentences like "This is the car one I've ever bought." instead of "This is the first car I've ever bought."

[Maximum Zersk]

Interesting. Though we'll see how it fits. I'm sort of inclined to the "no ordinals" myself.

[ref]

About "would a logical language be created naturally", I thought maybe not completely logical, but a highy science community would naturally want to evolve language to eliminate ambiguity, so I think it would be close to logical, but still not sounding too weird, just highly structured.

[Salbazier]

That was quite a mouthful

I you guys don't mind me, I have some questions. Is there any function to make so many tenses? Beyond for the makers to have fun of course.

Ancient and legendary tense seems a bit overlapping to me. It makes sense for legends and myth to have different tense (giving different feeling in reading, like the use of archaic in some literatures) but ancient... Ancient tales has tendency to mix with legends, where to draw the line? How long in the past something must happened to be referred with ancient rather than recent past tense?

[Maximum Zersk]

Okay, I think I need to clear something up.

Some of you may notice that the only difference between "Small Island" [Jiqqtsintilletsat] and "Creek" [Tsintilletsatjiqq] is the order of the words. I think I can generalize this.

The thing that is more important or more noticable, to say, comes first. For example, "Jiqqtsintilletsat", or "Water small-land". Because it is an island, the fact that water surrounds it is important. With "Tsintilletsatjiqq", or "Small-land Water", the fact that it is surrounded by land is important.

Make sense?

Anyway, onto more lexicon.

{TABLE]English|Sharlaq|Gender
Speech|Kengets|Masculine
Language|Kengetsadqan|Masculine
Animal|Jenjaqlukh Sharlaq|Feminine
Life|Altaqq|Neuter
Death|Denaltaqq|Masculine
Blood|Altaqqjiqq|Feminine
[/TABLE]

I think a possessive marker would be the suffix lukh.

Moar adjectives.

{TABLE]English|Sharlaq
Full|Tjhung
Empty|Denatjhung
[/TABLE]

Also, I think we should have some lines to be able to translate to.

Here's one.

My hovercraft is full of eels.

We probably don't need an actual word for hovercraft, so we'll just use HO'ERCRA'T

So it'd be:

Is my hovercraft full eels of. I think.

[Tulio d Bard]

That was quite a mouthful

I you guys don't mind me, I have some questions. Is there any function to make so many tenses? Beyond for the makers to have fun of course.

Ancient and legendary tense seems a bit overlapping to me. It makes sense for legends and myth to have different tense (giving different feeling in reading, like the use of archaic in some literatures) but ancient... Ancient tales has tendency to mix with legends, where to draw the line? How long in the past something must happened to be referred with ancient rather than recent past tense?

Don't worry about questioning, it will only help us.
Considering that the sharlaq focus a lot on culture and myths, my idea is that Legendary and Prophesied tenses are related to things that aren't sure to happen/have happened, while the other four are about usual things that will nigh certainly happen/have certainly happened. See:

• Legendary past: And then, Kultrok¹ took his people from the mouth of the angry Densehetensehsharlaq.
• Ancient past: My brother gave me this scar when I was a little girl.
• Recent past: I saw that black bird two days ago!
• Present: My hovercraft is full of eels.
• Future: Next year, our Spring Festival will be much bigger.
• Prophesied future: When Denaltateqoidul burns in the sky, the Sharlaq people will begin an endless war against their own brothers.

We could make Ancient and Recent past a single tense, but I was trying to strength the past. MZ's suggested "Ancient Past, Moderate Past, Recent Past, Present, Future" before me, so we could also pick that.
¹Are proper nouns declined as well?

@ref: Are you talking about gnomes' language? I believe that one will be much harder to create.

@Zersk: We'll need possessives. And I think we can cut the "of" (don't agree without thinking, 'cause I didn't thought).

[Maximum Zersk]

@Zersk: We'll need possessives. And I think we can cut the "of" (don't agree without thinking, 'cause I didn't thought).

Should we? I have no idea. We could do a whole variety of "of"s, each for a different context, if that's what you're talking about.

And no, Proper nouns wouldn't be declined.

[ref]

Yes, I was talking about the Gnomes' language. See? What Zersk said could also be a feature of the Gnomes' language. (btw, how are those languages called?) A language that works on removing ambiguities would have lots of prepositions (among other tiny words we natural-language speakers tend to gloss over).

[Tulio d Bard]

Should we? I have no idea. We could do a whole variety of "of"s, each for a different context, if that's what you're talking about.

And no, Proper nouns wouldn't be declined.

Yes, I was talking about the Gnomes' language. See? What Zersk said could also be a feature of the Gnomes' language. (btw, how are those languages called?) A language that works on removing ambiguities would have lots of prepositions (among other tiny words we natural-language speakers tend to gloss over).

I don't think Sharlaqish(?) cares too much about ambiguities, that's why I said we could remove some prepositions (not with these words). But I believe it can be decided later.

Another phrase: "I am no longer infected."

[ref]

Yeah, again I was talking about the Gnomes.

[ufo]

A thought on Sharlaq honorifics: They could all end in Sharlaq, so that "sibling" becomes "born-with-me being" and "different race" becomes "unlike-me being", if you catch my drift.

[Maximum Zersk]

That actually might work, I think. But we'll have to see it first.

[ref]

I like it, though they would probably have evolved to something like 'laq.

[Maximum Zersk]

Or possibly Shorlaq. So...

Tsekhetsharlaq becomes;

Dzekhteshorlaq

Tsokhetsharoq

Sekhsharlag

[Cinnamonbunnies]

My hovercraft is full of eels.

We probably don't need an actual word for hovercraft, so we'll just use HO'ERCRA'T

So it'd be:

Is my hovercraft full eels of. I think.

Assuming 'tjhung' to hold, also, the meaning 'full-of' .. how would the eels be conjugated after 'tjhung'?

Is my hovercraft full-of eels.

Shulatt tetwas ho'ercra'tsil tjhungsil <eel>-PLURAL-DATIVE


But .. in the context of such a complex agglutinative language, on a proto level at that, this construction seems out of place, indicative almost of its being a conlang.

Oudatekatt ho'ercra'tking <eels>-PLURAL-NOM. <many>-PLURAL-NOM.?

Though .. do the Northern Mayadilian languages consider a noun conjugated in the locative to be an adjective for the purpose of word order? I just assumed.

Well, in either case. The prior sentence sounds, to me, much like changing the word order of English and leaving it at that. Though the language would allow for it, it sounds slightly odd to me. Course the latter doesn't really convey the same meaning :/


So .. do words imported from other languages fall into specific categories some or all of the time?
E.g., imported nouns always being in the neuter? or are they always put into an appropriate category (hovercraft being related to air, air being masculine..)

Are there general rules for how conjugated words are treated in relation to sentence structure?
E.g., where does a noun in the locative end up, and such.

Does the language use complex adjectives such as "full of," and if not, how does it treat constructions which in English and other languages would use such adjectives?



Sorry, I .. never ever post but when I'm bored, and I thought it'd be interesting to see how you'd go ahead constructing this .. soo dont mind me! get back to your .. yes.

[Maximum Zersk]

Assuming 'tjhung' to hold, also, the meaning 'full-of' .. how would the eels be conjugated after 'tjhung'?

Erm, Tjhung [tʲɯŋ] means full, not to hold.

You know, I think I made a mistake there. It should be 'Is my hovercraft eels full of.'

Is my hovercraft full-of eels.

Shulatt tetwas ho'ercra'tsil tjhungsil <eel>-PLURAL-DATIVE

The adjective wouldn't need a declension, I don't think.

And the plural is the interfix -nij-. So, let's say eel would be the feminine sotrok, it'd be Sotroknijchaaq.

But .. in the context of such a complex agglutinative language, on a proto level at that, this construction seems out of place, indicative almost of its being a conlang.

Really? Why is that?

Oudatekatt ho'ercra'tking <eels>-PLURAL-NOM. <many>-PLURAL-NOM.?

Eh, it doesn't really fit as well.

Though .. do the Northern Mayadilian languages consider a noun conjugated in the locative to be an adjective for the purpose of word order? I just assumed.

No idea yet. :/

Well, in either case. The prior sentence sounds, to me, much like changing the word order of English and leaving it at that. Though the language would allow for it, it sounds slightly odd to me. Course the latter doesn't really convey the same meaning :/

I'm just hoping it doesn't end up too much like a relic. I guess it wasn't the greatest sentence to use.

So .. do words imported from other languages fall into specific categories some or all of the time?
E.g., imported nouns always being in the neuter? or are they always put into an appropriate category (hovercraft being related to air, air being masculine..)

Eh, put into neuter.

Are there general rules for how conjugated words are treated in relation to sentence structure?
E.g., where does a noun in the locative end up, and such.

Not sure yet.

[QUOTE]
Does the language use complex adjectives such as "full of," and if not, how does it treat constructions which in English and other languages would use such adjectives?
[QUOTE]

Again, not sure yet.

Sorry, I .. never ever post but when I'm bored, and I thought it'd be interesting to see how you'd go ahead constructing this .. soo dont mind me! get back to your .. yes.

Oh, it fine. You're welcome to jump in whenever you want.

[ref]

Normally, the selling point of declensions is that word-order can be a bit more relaxed, because the cases show what's meant to be where.

When we proceed to gnomes, if it ends up being close to what I envisioned, the word order will be much stricter.

[Maximum Zersk]

When we proceed to gnomes, if it ends up being close to what I envisioned, the word order will be much stricter.

So, similar to Roman, then?

Gnoman Soldier: What's that your writing there? "Tergekhen"? Ergative??

[ref]

Yeah, like that.

[Maximum Zersk]

More words.

Nouns
{TABLE]English|Sharlaq|Gender
North|Lerken|Masculine
East|Lertaq|Feminine
West|Lerngon|Neuter
South|Lersad|Feminine
Mountain|Adelletsat|Feminine
Group|Nejen|Masculine
Mountain Range|Adelletsatnejen|Feminine
[/table]

Adverbs
{TABLE]English|Sharlaq
Quickly|Dekatar
Slowly|Tsindekatar
[/table]

Adjective
{TABLE]English|Sharlaq
Tall|Adell
Short|Tsinadell
[/TABLE]

[ufo]

So, I take that the gender of compound words is defined by the first of the words in the compound?

[Maximum Zersk]

Uh, sure? To be honest, I didn't make a rule for that, but okay.

[ref]

When we get ready to go into Gnomish, I will present my envisioning of that.