Just an Idea for Homebrewers

[warlock2000]

So I've had this idea bouncing around in my head for the past two weeks since I looked up this particular board. What if we gathered up a number of the homebrew items here, with the permission of the creators of course, I compile them into a pdf, and we start sort of like a mailing list for new D20 content every month or every other? Not only would it get the homebrew out there but all the stuff designed could be expanded on in later installments. The content would all be free and credit would be given to the people how create it. What do people think? Good or horrible idea?

[Morph Bark]

Good idea, but incredibly hard to pull off. You'd need editors and artists and at least one person knowledgeable in the creation of PDFs.

[Mulletmanalive]

Been tried. Not worked in 4 years last count, if my math is right.

Things inevitably fall apart somewhere in the editorial process. I think the guy who used to mastermind such things was banned; not sure if it's related.

[DonEsteban]

Good idea, but why don't you create a wiki for it. Or, better still, use one of the existing ones like this or this.

[Draconi Redfir]

i say its at least worth a try. i know of a guy who might be willing to draw the art so long as its not overly violent/gruesome. color might be an issue however.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Been tried. Not worked in 4 years last count, if my math is right.

Things inevitably fall apart somewhere in the editorial process. I think the guy who used to mastermind such things was banned; not sure if it's related.

If you mean JackMann he went into the military. Isn't banned to my knowledge.

[warlock2000]

Well I can do up the pdfs and would setup a mailing account. As for art unless donated it would be just text. I am sure though if it got off the ground it could be huge. Is there any interest in joining this cause?

[un_known]

I know how to make PDF's and to work with them so if you need help in that area talk with me.

[Debihuman]

It's a great idea, but you're asking for a LOT of work. I speak from experience. First, I've worked as a professional proofreader and copywriter. Second, I've also done the same for four gaming netbooks.

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I've edited, proofread and created the pdf for Bhu's The Cat Burglar, and edited and proofread for Zeta Kai's FFX-D20 . Both of those were projects on this forum. Previously, I've worked on OZ OGL by Grimgrin, where I edited, proofread and created the pdf for that project. It started as a thread on the WotC's site and just ballooned into a netbook.

Prior to that, I worked on Liber Mysterium:The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks by Tim Brannan. Liber Mysterium was an "official" netbook back when we had to get contributor numbers from WotC to even work on it. I'm listed as an editor on that as well although I did a little writing for it too.

Creating a netbook isn't an easy thing. It usually means arguing over the rules. I'm a stickler for standardization (Just ask Bhu and Zeta). Tim would say the same thing. Grim's I did strictly for myself and didn't even show it to him until it was complete. It avoided the rules arguments, but I didn't have any feeback until it was over.

Also, what standards would you use?

More boring background stuff here:

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There are a lot of house rules and odd mechanics in homebrewed stuff. If you really want to maximize the number of DMs who will use that material, you have to change things for standard OGL. Otherwise it's not going to be useful to anyone who doesn't use that particular house rule. If you want to put out the best product out there, then that's what needs to be done.

Just ask all the writers on Liber Mysteriaum who were peeved because I took the "k" out of magic (except for the made up names of magic books like: "Ye Olde Tome of Magickal Beasts". You'd have thought I was asking for them to give me their first born child! It was easier to make the grammar and spelling changes from British to American by myself than to ask the writers to do it. Writers aren't necessarily good grammarians.

I think Zeta wanted to kill me when I made him change the ranges of attack for every single monster.

Lastly, damn you DebiHuman. Damn you to hell, with your "good ideas" & your "well-reasoned suggestions".

See here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=624.

.

Debby

[Mulletmanalive]

If you mean JackMann he went into the military. Isn't banned to my knowledge.

Got confused with the dude who set up the homebrewer's sig thread. Wasn't he also the guy who tried to resurrect Footprints? Or was that you?

[Jota]

Good idea, but why don't you create a wiki for it. Or, better still, use one of the existing ones like this or this.

Feel compelled to say that:

a) The first on you mention is being absorbed into this one, though I think the name may be changed back to dnd.wikia once the absorption is complete (not totally sure about that).

b) The second one is really quite mediocre, and in turn really quite awful compared to the former.

c) Sysop on the aforementioned dungeons.wikia (Surgo) was the one who tried to re-kindle the process here on GitP sometime in the last six months or so (not sure when exactly). IIRC, the issue was not with submissions, which were available in abundance, but with critiques for said submissions, which were not quite as forthcoming.

[warlock2000]

Ok, let me start off with I do understand this would be a great deal of work on those involved. But I am not looking at starting huge. I was thinking maybe 3ish classes maybe 2ish races, some feats and a junk drawer section to start things off. If there is more great. My goal would to improve each installment, rather then starting with perfection. I am thinking it's only going to be a few pages the first few and expand from there. I am not looking to change the world of RPGs, I am just looking for my place within said world beyond the gaming table.

@un known – I do have programs to make pdfs but I am always willing to learn more.

@Debihuman – I do understand there will be work involved and on a volunteer/free project I will be stuck with a lot of the boring stuff myself. But I feel I need a project of RPG flavor. I very much agree with you about the Standardization of the base rules. The OGL would be the guide. There may be exceptions from abilities inherent to the race or class but the base rules would remain. But there would be spots to showcase such rules that people seem to like as a separate part within the pdf.

@DonEsteban – I have a personal dislike wiki, but I am not looking to debate the Pros and Cons here, this thread is just to determine if I should follow through with setting this up and distributing such a collection of work.

Note: I don't doubt the work load, I basically want to know if the interest is there. Would you like a pdf package each month with homebrewed content to plug into your games? Or on the flip side would you want have your stuff seen and shared by others?

[Morph Bark]

Note: I don't doubt the work load, I basically want to know if the interest is there. Would you like a pdf package each month with homebrewed content to plug into your games? Or on the flip side would you want have your stuff seen and shared by others?

I would love that, personally. Might have stuff I haven't otherwise looked into, or give it a new look over. I'd prefer it if a team of people well-known with rules and power levels in DnD would have looked it over enough and given their "go" to publish the thing (as well as of course the creator's permission).

A seperate section could be devoted to older homebrewed content that might have missed the spotlight and deserves some more attention, or things that are just so awesome the people should get a new look at it.

[warlock2000]

Well anything done would need the creators permission of course, but I understand where your going.

[For Valor]

I don't think art is very necessary.

You can copy a class down pretty quickly (change the tables to the prettier Excel version and copy them into a Word Doc) with its abilities and all, since everythings already written up.

Then you paste that onto your e-mail/forum post/whatever or throw it on as an attachment. Pretty quick. All we really need is editing.

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Another idea is to get contributions from people/groups who want their stuff pdf-ed. If someone wants to get all the stuff from the "Tears of Blood" project and make it into a pdf, then they can submit it to some group of editors who look it over and then put it on a big forum that has links to Scribd or Rapidshare or something.

That way the homebrew moves at its own pace (and there's a controlled database for all of it), and new stuff that gets OK'd could be put out once a month/2 weeks.

No art required. Not unless you do it yourself.

[warlock2000]

I don't think art is very necessary.

You can copy a class down pretty quickly (change the tables to the prettier Excel version and copy them into a Word Doc) with its abilities and all, since everythings already written up.

Then you paste that onto your e-mail/forum post/whatever or throw it on as an attachment. Pretty quick. All we really need is editing.

--------------------------------------------------------

Another idea is to get contributions from people/groups who want their stuff pdf-ed. If someone wants to get all the stuff from the "Tears of Blood" project and make it into a pdf, then they can submit it to some group of editors who look it over and then put it on a big forum that has links to Scribd or Rapidshare or something.

That way the homebrew moves at its own pace (and there's a controlled database for all of it), and new stuff that gets OK'd could be put out once a month/2 weeks.

No art required. Not unless you do it yourself.

This is exactly the kind of thing I mean. Just need peoples permission and a list to send to. Will put some framework up tomorrow and hopefully get some bites of interest.

[Susano-wo]

I think the Wiki idea is good, or even if you weren't going to wiki it, some sort of Database. Then you could have a monthly newsletter detailing new additions, but it would be easy to search through the archives, rather than trying to figure out with of many PDF's it was in. (of course, if you could attach yourself to an already existing Wiki, that would make things easier, since you would already have content up)


Also, Debi: Thank you so much for your sig. I've been trying to figure out what the heck PEACH is since I started looking at the homebrew forums! :P

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

The problem with the attempts I've seen is that there is little quality control. The D&D wiki, for example, is kind of a pit of terror if you go in looking for a balanced class that fits into the philosophy of D&D.

This will only work if you can get a good team of people to judge the content, and maybe write a brief little introduction to each piece telling the reader what to expect from it in game. These people need to be known and respected quantities in the homebrew world, and people who can actually judge balance. We'd need permission from people submitting work allowing us to edit their work in order to make it fit our balance, flavor, and content requirements. Highly specific base classes, for example, have no place in 3.5, but the D&D wiki is FULL of them. A "Gravity Knight" would be a Prestige Class, for example. A Knight, on the other hand, is a base class.

People like Realms of Chaos, Krimm Blackleaf, The Demented One, Fax Celestis, ErrantX, and, if I may be so blunt, myself might be good options for reviewers/editors/content police.

[DragoonWraith]

The "dungeons.wikia.com" wiki, as opposed to the D&D Wiki, has much better quality control. Or, at least, it's supposed to, and I know everything I've put up there has seen at least some critique, though I haven't browsed what they have very thoroughly.

[Fax Celestis]

My wiki has pretty good QA, if you ask me.

[Hyooz]

I'd be willing to invest some time in such a project as an assistant editor of sorts. Djinn's list is quite excellent for the highest level of editing, but I think a team of assistant editor types would be ideal to keep from dumping all the work on them and preventing them from making their own homebrew

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I'd be willing to invest some time in such a project as an assistant editor of sorts. Djinn's list is quite excellent for the highest level of editing, but I think a team of assistant editor types would be ideal to keep from dumping all the work on them and preventing them from making their own homebrew

I would also be willing to assist in quality control and editting, as critiquing and editting homebrew is something I enjoy doing. As a warning, hwoever, I'm extremely harsh in my criticism, and have fairly high standards.

[Mulletmanalive]

The "dungeons.wikia.com" wiki, as opposed to the D&D Wiki, has much better quality control. Or, at least, it's supposed to, and I know everything I've put up there has seen at least some critique, though I haven't browsed what they have very thoroughly.

Last i checked, they were basically copies of each other. Heck, some of the unfinished articles from years before seem to have been transfered over.

T'was most disppointing, especially considering the original start with Frank and K's stuff with the smug trimmed a little was a good read...

[warlock2000]

@Susano-wo - A database may be a good idea but I still dislike wiki. I may figure out something, maybe a master list every 5 issues detailing where stuff is.

@Djinn_In_Tonic - you have an excellent point. I will take you advice and message those people to see if any of them have any interest in this project.

In general I want to thank everyone again this advice is very useful, but please no more wiki suggestions.

[Susano-wo]

Yeah, I wasn't really suggesting a wiki, just saying that it would probably be better than just a newsletter--I much prefer the database idea, due to the Quality Control issue mentioned (no offense meant to Fax or her Wiki...I don't know anything about the QA on it...just talking theoretically ^ ^)

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Yeah, I wasn't really suggesting a wiki, just saying that it would probably be better than just a newsletter--I much prefer the database idea, due to the Quality Control issue mentioned (no offense meant to Fax or her Wiki...I don't know anything about the QA on it...just talking theoretically ^ ^)

Fax's wiki has exceptional quality control, from what I've seen. Mainly because you have to be approved to have an account there.

[Analytica]

There is a potentially large problem in that a lot of homebrew people make builds on non-OGL material. Binding, Incarnum, Shadowcasting, Invocations, Truenaming, Maneuvers, Auras and so forth are not OGL. Beguilers, Duskblades, Archivists and Dread Necromancers are not OGL. Including anything that expands these subsystems in a published homebrew compendium means taking a potentially large legal risk. Which is quite sad.

[DragoonWraith]

There is a potentially large problem in that a lot of homebrew people make builds on non-OGL material. Binding, Incarnum, Shadowcasting, Invocations, Truenaming, Maneuvers, Auras and so forth are not OGL. Beguilers, Duskblades, Archivists and Dread Necromancers are not OGL. Including anything that expands these subsystems in a published homebrew compendium means taking a potentially large legal risk. Which is quite sad.

This thought occurred to me just yesterday. I wonder if it's possible to receive permission to refer to and expand upon these subsystems in an official capacity...

[For Valor]

This thought occurred to me just yesterday. I wonder if it's possible to receive permission to refer to and expand upon these subsystems in an official capacity...

It certainly might be, though I'd expect a solid "No" from WotC.

Anyways, I'd say that the best idea if we want to make pdfs from here on out is to take TDO's stuff, DragoonWraith's stuff, the old F&K stuff (balanced to tier 3-ish, usually), give some quick tier assignments, and turn them into pdfs separately.

Releasing 1-3 classes a week, along with whatever stuff goes with them, seems like a good idea for a slow publishing progression, which will give time for whoever the main editor is to post something on a form, get it critiqued and changed, and then make it a pdf.

What say we start on something really easy? F&K's "Races of War" has the new Barbarian, which is a nice Tier 4 class. Grab a couple other "smash things" classes (anybody got some of those?) and we can make our first pdf!

[DragoonWraith]

It certainly might be, though I'd expect a solid "No" from WotC.

So would I.