Neanderthals

[MarkusWolfe]

Already created fully formatted race entry on the D&D wiki, so to conserve internet space, LINK!

So yeah, that's the custom race I did. Before we have any arguments about the actual intelligence of Neanderthals:
A) these guys are technically half Neanderthals, as stated in the link
B) this argument has already been had:

...

.....

.......



Neanderthals had bigger brains than Cro-Magnons. Bloody stereotypes...

Woah there buddy. Neanderthals had bigger bodies, giving them about the same brain to body ratio. However, if 'Walking with Cavemen' is to be believed, the neanderthals were intelligent but lacking creativity and imaginativeness. (on a related note, Caucasians have been found to have between 1% and 4% Neanderthal DNA)

But yeah, now that I think about it, there's no way Belkar could ever truly be replaced. If he doesn't die in the finale, then he'll come back from hell just to fight alongside the Order of the Stick for one last time.

It also needs to be noted that not all brains are built the same, a bigger brain pan might not = more smart stuff. Neandertahal could have a different ratio of cell types, as wll as have a lot of fat to keep the brain warm, like dolphin have.

Yeah, that might have been the reason they weren't so imaginative. On the other hand, they did develop their brains faster, meaning they were adults by about 16...

But we're getting off topic here. This is about a possible replacement for our favorite murderous psychopathic halfling ranger, not developing an IQ test for extinct hominids. Gaugh, I better make a new thread for this so this one doesn't derail.

So praise it, critique it, flame it, and just do what you will with it.

[Ashtagon]

Looks good. My only issue is the way the bonus skill point is restricted. It looks way complicated to prevent a player from cheating if the GM wasn't planning on supervising them at level-up.

Possibly, the race may also be a little bit of a one-class wonder (ie. tailored for a single class and almost useless at others).

[Iferus]

Possibly, the race may also be a little bit of a one-class wonder (ie. tailored for a single class and almost useless at others).

This. Also, did you concider Frostburn's Neanderthal?

[Venardhi]

The one thing I would suggest changing is changing their lifestyle to a less social one. It is fairly likely that Neanderthals lived in small family groups or solo, rather than creating large tribal settlements. They would have almost certainly been migratory too, since they were primarily carnivores. The best social comparison I can think of would be to Lions.

This gives them interesting flavor to separate them further from standard humans. It also explains their negative to charisma better than just being unattractive. If the average Neanderthal was raised amongst only a handful of other people and was sent off on his own around adulthood he would definitely lack social skills, especially with other species/races.

The skill limitation also seems a bit forced and unfair to anyone wanting to play them. Perhaps just limit them to more physical (jump, spot, listen, swim, etc) skills and treat all others as cross-class no matter what class they are. They would never be the skill monkey of the group, but there isn't any reason they shouldn't be able to climb well or spend a lot of points to develop one or two social abilities.

Just a few thoughts.

[Spiryt]

In the frozen wastes of the Neanderthal homeland, brute strength and ruggedness are necessary for survival. Creativity and good looks are not.

This is honestly quite wonky explaining IMO - creativity is GOLDEN thing to have in frozen wastes.

On the border of warm, ever fruitful jungle one can just sleep in mosquito, carnivores etc. free place, avoid overheating and eat stuff all day.

On "frozen waste" it would be harder, generally.

At least if creativity won't be replaced by some stern traditions telling people how to survive.

But that all would generally depend on exact fluff.

[Lord Loss]

frostburn has a Neanserthal Race as well.

[MarkusWolfe]

Looks good. My only issue is the way the bonus skill point is restricted. It looks way complicated to prevent a player from cheating if the GM wasn't planning on supervising them at level-up.

Possibly, the race may also be a little bit of a one-class wonder (ie. tailored for a single class and almost useless at others).

I must say that the last bit is a bit off: it's more accurate to say its a 3 class wonder. (Barbarian, Ranger and Fighter) But I concede to your point. This was actually a bit deliberate; research shows that Neanderthals were good at running/sneaking up to big animals and stabbing them with spears. So their role in a party would be limited to that. But if you want to try a Neanderthal rogue....well, if it wasn't a trapmonkey as much as it was an sneak attack specialist, that would work fairly well if you rolled a good Dex score.

The one thing I would suggest changing is changing their lifestyle to a less social one. It is fairly likely that Neanderthals lived in small family groups or solo, rather than creating large tribal settlements. They would have almost certainly been migratory too, since they were primarily carnivores. The best social comparison I can think of would be to Lions.

This gives them interesting flavor to separate them further from standard humans. It also explains their negative to charisma better than just being unattractive. If the average Neanderthal was raised amongst only a handful of other people and was sent off on his own around adulthood he would definitely lack social skills, especially with other species/races.

The skill limitation also seems a bit forced and unfair to anyone wanting to play them. Perhaps just limit them to more physical (jump, spot, listen, swim, etc) skills and treat all others as cross-class no matter what class they are. They would never be the skill monkey of the group, but there isn't any reason they shouldn't be able to climb well or spend a lot of points to develop one or two social abilities.

Just a few thoughts.

Well, I'd compare them more to wolves, since lions, you know, have pretty unfair labor division while there is evidence that when the Neanderthals hunted, EVERYONE, even the women, went hunting. But I'm really liking all the stuff you said before and after the lion analogy.

This is honestly quite wonky explaining IMO - creativity is GOLDEN thing to have in frozen wastes.

On the border of warm, ever fruitful jungle one can just sleep in mosquito, carnivores etc. free place, avoid overheating and eat stuff all day.

On "frozen waste" it would be harder, generally.

At least if creativity won't be replaced by some stern traditions telling people how to survive.

But that all would generally depend on exact fluff.

Man, I am so happy most of the problems are with the fluff. Fluff can be changed with a snap of the fingers; mechanics, with the turning of heavy wrenches. Fixed the fluff for everyone.

[Darth Stabber]

The Frostburn version was +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int. Replace Diehard with cold adaptation and the class skill issue with improved illiteracy and you pretty much have it.

[Temotei]

I must say that the last bit is a bit off: it's more accurate to say its a 3 class wonder. (Barbarian, Ranger and Fighter) But I concede to your point. This was actually a bit deliberate; research shows that Neanderthals were good at running/sneaking up to big animals and stabbing them with spears. So their role in a party would be limited to that. But if you want to try a Neanderthal rogue....well, if it wasn't a trapmonkey as much as it was an sneak attack specialist, that would work fairly well if you rolled a good Dex score.

They wouldn't do too badly as monks, either (Well, not as badly as something else, that is.).

[arguskos]

While I'm not normally opposed to making something for the sake of doing so... there is a perfectly functional Neanderthal race in Frostburn, and in fact could be argued to be superior mechanically. And yes, I saw that they are apparently half-Neanderthals, but I still don't get the need for them. Really, what's your rationale for ignore the already extant race and making one that doesn't add anything truly unique to the niche? If you don't OWN Frostburn, ok, I can see it, but otherwise... eh? They don't add enough unique to be worthy of a remake.

If you would like a mechanically analysis... they're boring, but functional. I guess if you need a race that's got Str/Con bonuses and no relevant weaknesses, they work out fine. Skill points are fine, Diehard is still useless, but at least it's free (still need Endurance though, might as well give them that too).

The only mechanical issue is the truly moronic arbitrary "you will never be good at anything but these skills EVER" restriction. Really, do away with that please, since it actually hurts character creation and character concepts for no good reason. For example, if I want to play a socialized Neanderthal who was taken from his family as a youngster (say, 11 or 12) and raised in a more civilized setting... why can't I learn how to open some god damn locks?

Note that I don't hate this race or hate you or anything. It's solid work, just... eh. It doesn't ADD anything new and worthwhile to the concept, has a very silly arbitrary restriction, and is unexciting, all of which adds up in my head to "why should I play this over something else, like dwarf?" My current answer? "No reason. Where's that dwarf again?"

[MarkusWolfe]

The Frostburn version was +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int. Replace Diehard with cold adaptation and the class skill issue with improved illiteracy and you pretty much have it.

Improved Illiteracy? How does that even work? I thought you were either illiterate or you weren't. How could be more illiterate than someone else? It makes no sense....just like that extra virgin olive oil.......

[Temotei]

Improved Illiteracy? How does that even work? I thought you were either illiterate or you weren't. How could be more illiterate than someone else? It makes no sense....just like that extra virgin olive oil.......

Muahaha! My barbarian can read worse than yours can!
Mine can't read...
Sort that in your mind.
*Blows up*

I dunno. Maybe improved illiteracy would be the ability to pick out small phrases learned from speech in writing. The neanderthal could learn how to do that just from hearing others speak and sorting through that in their mind.

[hamishspence]

Normally, if a barbarian takes levels in a PC class other than barbarian, they gain literacy.

A neanderthal starts as illiterate- and one who takes levels in a class that is not wizard, does not gain literacy.

So a neanderthal rogue, paladin, sorcerer, etc is not literate.

This might be what could be called "racial feature- improved illiteracy"

[Temotei]

Normally, if a barbarian takes levels in a PC class other than barbarian, they gain literacy.

A neanderthal starts as illiterate- and one who takes levels in a class that is not wizard, does not gain literacy.

So a neanderthal rogue, paladin, sorcerer, etc is not literate.

This might be what could be called "racial feature- improved illiteracy"

Oh, yeah. I remember that. *facepalm*

[hamishspence]

Races of Faerun does have varying literacy levels for various other races:

Half-orc- Barbarians, adepts, commoners, and warriors are illiterate.

Mountain orc- All NPC classes are illiterate, as are barbarians.

Moon Elves, Wood Elves, Sun Elves, Drow, Avariels- all NPC classes are literate, all PC classes are literate, except barbarians.

Aquatic Elves- Barbarians, Commoners, and Warriors are illiterate.

Wild Elves- all NPC classes are illiterate, as are barbarians.

And so on.

The various human regions also vary in literacy levels.

[MarkusWolfe]

Normally, if a barbarian takes levels in a PC class other than barbarian, they gain literacy.

A neanderthal starts as illiterate- and one who takes levels in a class that is not wizard, does not gain literacy.

So a neanderthal rogue, paladin, sorcerer, etc is not literate.

This might be what could be called "racial feature- improved illiteracy"

Oh....see, I came across this joke variant of barbarians where improved illiteracy is....well, see for yourself: Big Dumb Barbarian