Witchunt V1.0 (WW Variant)

[Murska]

Nah. It's day one. We want a kill.

dizzylover.

[dizzylover55]

So, remember the goal isn't to immediately lynch someone. It's to get them to confess to some info, without having a massive info dump occur. As such, we shouldn't try to IMMEDIATELY lynch someone, and anyone who actually does make the killing vote should immediately, 100%, be suspected to be scum and killed asap.

As such, I suggest we get some info on the person I suspect is the most dangerous player among us, and the worst to have as a scum.

Vote Sotek

Makes sense to me. （‐＾▽＾‐）

Vote Sotek

[Sotek]

Good grief this is scattered, and it started when I wasn't looking. :<

Well, we definitely want a kill today, but we're nowhere near wanting to actually kill anyone specific until we have some knowledge of how people are reacting. Unfortunately, I'm not at home today so am using my netbook which makes keeping track of all the stuff I usually like to track a little awkward, that's gonna be "fun". Guess I'm setting myself up for a marathon reading session once I do get home (in a few days...)

For the moment, it looks like the person with the most votes is dizzylover55, and I see no reason to contribute to the splitting of the votes until we've got someone pressured enough to say something.

[Sotek]

OK, caught up on the events and got my tally going.

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Post reference link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/misc....osted&t=166306
Sotek's unofficial vote tally! (17 alive, so 9 is lynch, 9 is sufficient to force nolynch)

dizzylover55: 5 (Ghanz Nmi, InaVegt, Eternal Drifter, Murksa, Sotek)
Fleeing Coward: 2 (Internet Flea, CitizenFry)
InaVegt: 1 (Fleeing Coward)
Internet Flea: 2 (Tydude, VA_beds)
Sotek: 2 (Dragon_Child, dizzylover55)
Ghanz Nmi: 1 (Aemoh)
lostlittlebear: 1 (Ramsus)
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(Sorry for the doublepost, but with a no editing rule...)

[dizzylover55]

Good grief this is scattered, and it started when I wasn't looking. :<

Well, we definitely want a kill today, but we're nowhere near wanting to actually kill anyone specific until we have some knowledge of how people are reacting. Unfortunately, I'm not at home today so am using my netbook which makes keeping track of all the stuff I usually like to track a little awkward, that's gonna be "fun". Guess I'm setting myself up for a marathon reading session once I do get home (in a few days...)

For the moment, it looks like the person with the most votes is dizzylover55, and I see no reason to contribute to the splitting of the votes until we've got someone pressured enough to say something.

How about we kill you, since you're a dangerous player and you're riding a bandwagon. ( ﾟヮﾟ)

[lostlittlebear]

So, remember the goal isn't to immediately lynch someone. It's to get them to confess to some info, without having a massive info dump occur.

I'm not sure if this is beneficial to us with the WW around. I'd think that killing one person quick is preferable to to killing one person with a smaller majority and having the original target reveal information that would help the WW nom him/her.

So, Dragon_Child, for appearing to have ulterior motives.

[Ghanz Nmi]

I'm not sure if this is beneficial to us with the WW around. I'd think that killing one person quick is preferable to to killing one person with a smaller majority and having the original target reveal information that would help the WW nom him/her.

So, Dragon_Child, for appearing to have ulterior motives.

Lostlittlebear's reasoning make sense to me. In the absence of an explanation as to exactly why we want people to start dropping their roles on day 1 to get themselves NK'd or nom'd, I'm willing to switch to Dragon_Child. It'd be interesting to see him demonstrate in person what kind of helpful info pressuring someone can give to the village.

I do want to get it out now that I want a lynch today, so at the end of the day I will ride a bandwagon if it'll let something happen. I'm very pro-choice like that.

[lostlittlebear]

To add to my reasoning further, the town not lynching someone in the day isn't necessarily a bad thing, considering that the judge will get to lynch a target at the start of the Night phase.

In fact, a judge lynch might be preferable to a Day lynch, as that lessens the chances of information leaking out that will help the WW.

(I would like a narrator confirmation on the exact timing of the WWs devouring. Does it take place during the Day or Night Phase?)

[Milskidasith]

WW Devour is any time during the day.

[CitizenFry]

Seems unlikely that werewolf devours will happen in the first few days, because if he does, he is erecting a big neon sign that says PLEASE KILL ME. As long as we don't go crazy and mass roleclaim or anything, it should not hurt us much to push a few people for info. And we might get a huge payoff if a witch cracks.

[InaVegt]

Seems unlikely that werewolf devours will happen in the first few days, because if he does, he is erecting a big neon sign that says PLEASE KILL ME. As long as we don't go crazy and mass roleclaim or anything, it should not hurt us much to push a few people for info. And we might get a huge payoff if a witch cracks.

Except the werewolf cannot be lynched.

[Murska]

And why would a witch tell anyone anything about their role? It's not like they automatically lose if lynched, but they do lose if they spill the beans.

[CitizenFry]

Except the werewolf cannot be lynched.

Right, but the DOB and witches now have perfect targetting to kill him.

[CitizenFry]

And why would a witch tell anyone anything about their role? It's not like they automatically lose if lynched, but they do lose if they spill the beans.

Obviously a witch isn't going to say HEY GUYS I'M A WITCH but their choices are
1) claim a role
2) not claim a role

#2 usually leads to getting lynched anyway in my experience, and if they fakeclaim, the person who is actually the claimed role can potentially counterclaim.

[Murska]

Yes, but he mentioned a huge payoff. There's no payoff there. One witch for two role-reveals for the Werewolf, one dead strong villager powerrole and witch bane-control? No.

[CitizenFry]

The huge payoff would be if we pressure a witch and the witch says something that makes the whole town go "wow, that is definitely a witch" to seal the lynch. Lynching witches is obviously better than lynching not-witches. And we're much more likely to hit non-witches if we just random.

[Milskidasith]

Modpost here: Roles aren't revealed on death.

Other useful info:

Witch faction numbers: Four total (five witch roles, but one is a spy).
Town faction numbers: 12/11 (If WW Lovers)
WW faction numbers: 1/2 (If WW lovers).

[Cyborg Mage]

Meh. dizzylover. It really doesn't matter who you vote for unless you can start a bandwagon. Also, she does have lover in her name. Hey, it's the best evidence we can get on Day 1.

[Milskidasith]

Cyborg, you aren't even in the game anymore. You failed to confirm within a day and your role has been given to Dragon_Child.

[Cyborg Mage]

... WHAT!?! This is quite annoying. Well, at least I got a decent role in Grinning Moon. Oh wait, Everyone did. I, uhh, *whistles*.

[Milskidasith]

I was more than fair in giving you a day to confirm; I even posted an update saying you needed to.

[Sotek]

How about we kill you, since you're a dangerous player and you're riding a bandwagon. ( ﾟヮﾟ)

Of course I'm riding a bandwagon! Just randomly voting for random people doesn't pressure anyone, and we don't have enough info to prefer anyone over anyone else yet - if I had been around when it started up for real, I would have tried starting a random bandwagon, since that's our only real source of information right now.

If I see someone do anything more suspicious than advocate the old "let the judge lynch" mistake that misses the fact that if a judge lynches with no information we are more likely to hit a townie than if we don't! (Leeroy can go off to prevent it, lovers can at least claim lovers then even if they want to not do so normally, the Nun can have her role modconfirmed, aco can protect priest... ... and so on.) then yeah, I'd probably vote for them.

But for the moment, we need to pressure someone and have no information to make a decision with, so the best choice is the person with the most pressure. (but well short of fatal)

PS, guys: It is entirely reasonable for a townie to lie about his role in the early game if he wants to obfuscate the werewolf or mess up witch targeting. (traveller/survivor might want to make witches think they're a power role to waste NKs and get confirmed as town, power roles might want to make witches think they're weak to get ignored, etc) What matters isn't necessarily a role claim under pressure, it's simply how you react to pressure. We don't learn anything at all by randomly lynching people, we only learn by pushing people to get some tells.

[Milskidasith]

Sort-of-official votecount!

dizzylover55: 4 (InaVegt, Eternal Drifter, Murksa, Sotek)
Fleeing Coward: 2 (Internet Flea, CitizenFry)
InaVegt: 1 (Fleeing Coward)
Internet Flea: 2 (Tydude, VA_beds)
Sotek: 2 (Dragon_Child, dizzylover55)
Ghanz Nmi: 1 (Aemoh)
lostlittlebear: 1 (Ramsus)
Dragon_Child: 2 (Lostlittlebear, Ghanz Nmi)

[Internet Flea]

I'm just going to point out that this whole "pressure people into saying something" idea doesn't work when you keep telling people not to lynch anybody. The threat of being lynched is the only motivation for them to role claim in the first place.

[CitizenFry]

I'm just going to point out that this whole "pressure people into saying something" idea doesn't work when you keep telling people not to lynch anybody. The threat of being lynched is the only motivation for them to role claim in the first place.

What? Who is telling people not to lynch anybody?

[Sotek]

I'm just going to point out that this whole "pressure people into saying something" idea doesn't work when you keep telling people not to lynch anybody. The threat of being lynched is the only motivation for them to role claim in the first place.

Oh yeah, of course. We need for the threat of lynch to be a credible threat, but lynching someone without giving them a good chance to talk is a heavily anti-town move. So ... put people to a little short of lynch (I like lynch-2 in a game this size, since that way someone can't accidentally hammer, but a deliberate hammer is pretty easy to get) and let them talk, and if they don't say anything that makes them look like a townie, hammer 'em. But give them some time, for sure.

BTW, guys, when it comes to role-reveal and the werewolf, the only roles he actually cares about for devouring are those that can kill him - which means the DOB and the witches' roles. The priest doesn't matter to him because if he devours he's revealed anyway, and pretty much every other town role the werewolf only cares about because it narrows down the space to find the witches/JW/DOB in. Now, we still care about role revealing because it helps the witches, but right now we need something to work off of.

[Internet Flea]

So, remember the goal isn't to immediately lynch someone. It's to get them to confess to some info, without having a massive info dump occur. As such, we shouldn't try to IMMEDIATELY lynch someone, and anyone who actually does make the killing vote should immediately, 100%, be suspected to be scum and killed asap.

Vote Sotek

Makes sense to me. （‐＾▽＾‐）

Vote Sotek

But for the moment, we need to pressure someone and have no information to make a decision with, so the best choice is the person with the most pressure. (but well short of fatal)

These guys are.

[Internet Flea]

Hopefully it's obvious that was a response to CitizenFry that just got ninja'd.

[CitizenFry]

Hopefully it's obvious that was a response to CitizenFry that just got ninja'd.

I read those posts as saying "let's gather information, then lynch" not "don't lynch".

[Sotek]

These guys are.

I think that the you're overlooking the significance of the use of the word "immediately" there - I don't read it as "don't lynch", I read it as "don't lynch before they say something", which is an important difference - I don't think they're necessarily a pair of scum looking for cover to go after someone else D2, or whatever.