Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XXVII: God Has Nothing to do With This

[averagejoe]

Perhaps her sisters are actually her HALF sisters? Luna was illegitimate, and that's where a lot of the anger/resentment is coming from?

Sure it would be cheap, and probably not make any sense, but it would be a fun twist, and something at all, so that would be different.

[TheLaughingMan]

I think Luna or one of her sisters says to Dominic that their mother successfully did what Szark's wife tried to do: Married a rich Lord and got his estates and life insurance after she poisoned him. And his name was obviously Travoria, not Siggie's family name.

What became of their estate?

It goes to Dominic. Somehow.

[Mauve Shirt]

Luna being related to Siggy would be pretty icky, since he was one of her suitors.

[Gez]

Luna being related to Siggy would be pretty icky, since he was one of her suitors.

Exactly!

Remember, the plan was to get her to suicide. If Siggy didn't crush what was left of her self-esteem by a rejection, the revelation that she can't be with her love because it's her brother would have done it.

It was a flawless plan. (Except for its intrinsic absurdity, of course, but all cases were covered.)

[Lillith]

It goes to Dominic. Somehow.

Wait? What? Really? Where did it say so?

[TheLaughingMan]

Wait? What? Really? Where did it say so?

It's DD. Do I need to elaborate?

And no, not really.

[Domochevsky]

Well, we could always snark Goblins once DD goes down... >_>

That being said, i can't access DD, so no idea what today's strip looks like apart from the descriptions. Peculiar.

[ichini_sanshigo]

Well, it makes the most sense for lawyer sister to inherit, so that means Luna inherits, and of course Dominic is the one who probably controls the finances in that household.

[TheLaughingMan]

Well, we could always snark Goblins once DD goes down... >_>

That being said, i can't access DD, so no idea what today's strip looks like apart from the descriptions. Peculiar.

If you skim down here, you should be able to see it.

For those of you who don't want to brave SA, it's the same ****ing joke Bort had with Erkloud. Except now it's supposed to be badass.

[Coidzor]

....I was so stunned by how incomprehensible the comic was, I forgot to notice the thing's wings disappeared on the ground....

[Lord Seth]

CurlyKitGirl's analysis of the early DD arcs made me See the a startling Truth: Luna is a racist. When people say she looks like an Orc she gets angry or depressed. Clearly she thinks Orcs are ugly and that looking like an Orc is a bad thing. Where is the outrage??

I don't think that's racism on her part so much as it's racism on everyone else's part.

[Palmer]

Is it me, or has Mookie's storytelling..."abilities" suffered a decline? It's been nothing but shameless self-indulgence in the clumsiest way possible. Literally every segue is somebody killing something for no reason. Are the pages where the story is just stuck together?

[TheLaughingMan]

Is it me, or has Mookie's storytelling..."abilities" suffered a decline? It's been nothing but shameless self-indulgence in the clumsiest way possible. Literally every segue is somebody killing something for no reason. Are the pages where the story is just stuck together?

The quality's gone from a thirteen year old trying earnestly to tell a story, to a six year old just scribbling things that amuse them.

[Ignition]

I gotta admit, at least in Maltak, stuff happened.

In the dumbest, most circuitous way possible, but stuff happened. And before that, stuff happened then too. This "nothing's happening" blue-period is going on way too long. I can't even say "stuff is happening" now, after all the demon killing and cloud shanking and whatever, because it's just a constant stream of filler.

[SaintRidley]

Snark Index updated. I'll add the snark rangers once we've settled things. May have to wait for next thread, though. We're getting close to the point of needing another opening post.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The quality's gone from a thirteen year old trying earnestly to tell a story, to a six year old just scribbling things that amuse them.

That's... a surprisingly apt description of Mookie post-Maltak. I'm not sure if the ages match up, but your description of his intent does

Mookie may not be hard-working, but he is earnest. He's like a novice DM who really wants to tell a story but can't muster the effort to flesh out his own world. He's going to finish this campaign, by Jove - Player interest be damned! After Maltak, however, he finally saw that his campaign wasn't working out the way he wanted it: the Players (fans) were in revolt, it took way too long, and he didn't even get around to using half the plots he wrote. So now he's just running stuff that sounds fun - "let's do a game where everyone is in a band! Or at high school where they have to fight bullies! Or this wacky land full of homebrew monsters!" There is no plot, no effort made to even run the game.

And now we're in Hell, because the DM says "hey, let's do something really gritty and hardcore!"

[CurlyKitGirl]

I gotta admit, at least in Maltak, stuff happened.

In the dumbest, most circuitous way possible, but stuff happened. And before that, stuff happened then too. This "nothing's happening" blue-period is going on way too long. I can't even say "stuff is happening" now, after all the demon killing and cloud shanking and whatever, because it's just a constant stream of filler.

Given what I've read and heard about Maltak - it being the most despised arc of all DD - this does not bode well at all.

And due to there being some sort of server error, there'll be no analysis today. Curses.
I was looking forward to how Mookie would try to advance his worthwhile plot. Granted, he'd probably ruin it in some way, but there's a chance it won't go wrong iust yet.
Heck, even the OOCness of characters is something I can twist into actual character development by running with my Dominic is evil and has been from the very start theory.
I miss my snark analysis.

EDIT:
And how did Mookie get his name anyway? Sarcastic naming from a fan?

[Oracle_Hunter]

EDIT:
And how did Mookie get his name anyway? Sarcastic naming from a fan?

Childhood nickname of some sort. If it's meant to be derrogatory, Mookie doesn't treat it that way.

It is more distinctive than Michael and easier to remember/spell/pronounce than Terracciano.

[Coidzor]

Indeed. His last name sorta makes me think of Mud Cappuccino. ...That sounds wrong somehow...

Hmm, let's see if I can think of any places it might be archived to peruse to recommend you, Koorly... Nope, not really, though you might consider trying this while the main server is inaccessible since you're archive trawling anyway.

Erm. I'm not exactly sure if that's considered a misuse of the website though.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Indeed. His last name sorta makes me think of Mud Cappuccino. ...That sounds wrong somehow...

Hmm, let's see if I can think of any places it might be archived to peruse to recommend you, Koorly... Nope, not really, though you might consider trying this while the main server is inaccessible since you're archive trawling anyway.

Erm. I'm not exactly sure if that's considered a misuse of the website though.

Aha!
The main site's back up, but thanks for the link Coidzor.
Next two parts of VoD should be up tonight.

[Morty]

Huh. You guys were ascribing roles to the snarkers? I'm not sure if I can be considered a snarker anymore, really... I barely post in this thread these days, although I used to do it a lot. Recent arcs have been so utterly pointless I couldn't even snark at them. I've been trying to get back to it, but it's going slowly. But then again, this arc seems to have something resembling a point, at least. Certainly more than "teehee, funny sheneniagans of Stunt and other people in the HILARIOUS Wild Edge".

[Domochevsky]

Ah, site is back up ...ok, what? The thing passes over him (in a direction indicating that it's "behind" him) then he turns around, throws the spear ...somehow at that angle backwards and hits it? Huh?

(Also, where the hell are its wings in p6? ...and why is it wearing gloves? o_O)

[Trazoi]

The quality's gone from a thirteen year old trying earnestly to tell a story, to a six year old just scribbling things that amuse them.

I think of this year of DD as Axe Cop without the charm or creativity.

This arc is shaping up to be actually important, what with Siggy severing TIMs connection to Hell and then going rogue. But due to the previous filler it feels like more indulgence in bewbs and violence. We have even got a return of the weird Wild Edge critters, except now they are demons.

[Thanqol]

I think of this year of DD as Axe Cop without the charm or creativity.

Or art or humor. Or awesome theme music.

Rant Time!

One particular quote has been growing on me for a long time now, to the point where it is now a core part of my ideology and philosophy.

"Most stories succeed or fail during character generation. Some can go on for a long time after that, some can even finish, but that's where their fundamental flaw will always lie."

Positive examples include Firefly, which is all about the group dynamic between a group of space smugglers to the point that the story is simply a vehicle to showcase the character's own takes on the universe, and Tales of the Otori where Shigeru's position is designed to be one of extreme isolation with everyone in the world against him all the time.

This philosophy was originally used as a tabletop gaming statement, and it applies critically there - think about the difference between a GM-driven plot-based story, and a character driven story. Think about the character development in Fate: Stay Night that is only possible because the world is structured to focus exclusively on how it relates to Shirou's sense of morality and dream to be a superhero. Think of The Wire - what sets it apart from being 'another cop drama' is that all the characters have very strong roles.

And now, think about stories that fail, or fall flat. Think about how this is due to bland, uninspiring characters that don't interact with each other rather than lack of creative plotting. Compare Henry the Fifth to Romeo and Juliet. Henry V is much less popular than Romeo and Juliet because Henry simply does not interact with any other character in any meaningful way. Think about Ctrl-Alt-Del (yes, I did just compare Shakespeare to Buckley) and the lack of character emotion or role. And then think about Dominic Deegan.

What role does Karnak play in the story? Occasional villain, sure, but could we cut him or replace him with any other villain and get the same result? It takes a few seconds to justify Snuggly being behind the Infernomancer and gay Szark's cursed wounds, and the narrative is suddenly stable. That's it. We don't lose any emotional resonance, save an infodump from Dovonan that he used to know him. This means Karnak is a bad character.

That's just the character. That we can look at multiple scenes, plots and even arcs of Dominic Deegan, ask if we could remove them and have the core narrative unchanged, and get multiple loud "Yes" answers means it's a bad comic, but that's a rant for another English lecture.

[SaintRidley]

As a student twice over of English (pursuing a bachelor's in writing and another in literature) I'd be glad to read more of those rants, thagnol.

[Trazoi]

Or art or humor. Or awesome theme music.

I file most of that under "charm" and the remainder after "creativity".

What role does Karnak play in the story? Occasional villain, sure, but could we cut him or replace him with any other villain and get the same result? It takes a few seconds to justify Snuggly being behind the Infernomancer and gay Szark's cursed wounds, and the narrative is suddenly stable. That's it. We don't lose any emotional resonance, save an infodump from Dovonan that he used to know him. This means Karnak is a bad character.

To be fair, Karnak played a central role in the War in Hell arc. It would be more than trivial to remove him from that.

The main problem I have with the characters is that Mookie rarely tries to get inside their heads and write believable behaviour. Every time a character does something boneheadedly out of character I lose some more respect for them, and in Maltak it reached the point where I snapped and lose interest in the whole lot. Currently only a handful of the major characters like Dominic and Donovan have a definable personality; others like Greg and Luna are a complete mess. The villains now are so bland they are all purely motivated by For The Evulz.

This is also an issue I've seen get worse in the last couple of years. For the earlier arcs there seemed to be some consistency, but lately everyone could be Stunt in a variety of wigs. (Although Stunt himself has only half succumbed to this; he's still got more of his character left than Bumper).

[Lufia]

I'm confused by how exactly Karnak threw that trident like the rest of you, but I'm also wondering how he's getting an instant kill on that dragon-thing. It looks like it was stabbed in the throat. I'm admittedly not an expert on stab-wounds to the throat, but wouldn't you be affected (i.e. bleed to death) once the weapon is removed and not while it's sticking out of you? I can see the dragon-thing staggering mid-flight and crash-landing on the nearest mountain, but I'm perplexed by its dropping like a stone. And on its back, too.

[Trazoi]

I'm confused by how exactly Karnak threw that trident like the rest of you, but I'm also wondering how he's getting an instant kill on that dragon-thing. It looks like it was stabbed in the throat. I'm admittedly not an expert on stab-wounds to the throat, but wouldn't you be affected (i.e. bleed to death) once the weapon is removed and not while it's sticking out of you? I can see the dragon-thing staggering mid-flight and crash-landing on the nearest mountain, but I'm perplexed by its dropping like a stone. And on its back, too.

He stuck a fork in it. It's done.

[colonelslime]

Little late to the party I know, but I must comment:

Karnak is angry, but we already knew this.

WTF was the point of all this.

[Thanqol]

As a student twice over of English (pursuing a bachelor's in writing and another in literature) I'd be glad to read more of those rants, thagnol.

I'll give you the cheat sheet for English, then: It's all about sex. Sex and death.

Economics is all about greed and fear, diluted versions of sex and death respectively.

And, because you asked so nicely:

Dominic Deegan: Core Structural Defects Part 1: Luna

Drawing off my earlier point about characters not having purpose, the most terrible example of this is the existence of Luna. Can anyone tell me what her role is in the story? From what I can see, her role (not her character) is Dominic's Girlfriend. Let's examine this and why it's bad.

In an open ended fantasy narrative, surely it's okay to have characters who are their own people, right? No. No it is not. Characters have to fit into a story role on some level otherwise you simply cannot have a story. Luna is an example of a character without a purpose, who has had purpose thrust upon them repeatedly by the story in increasingly desperate attempts to retroactively justify their existance.

So we come to the dark, and terrible conclusion: Dominic Deegan, Oracle for Hire would not be substantially changed if Luna did not exist.

Let's dissect. What has Luna done?

- Provided magical firepower for Dominic. Every single one of these moments could be rewritten so that Dominic dealt with the situation using his own talents, or removed entirely. Storm of Souls vs. Hexlia? Just not have Hexlia. Two characters justifying each other's existences and cancelling out is bad writing.
- Had a family of evil sisters. If you really want to keep the family connection to the protagonists, have them be cousins of Dominic or something but otherwise there's no reason why Luna has to exist for those people to.
- Did a rain dance in Maltak. This is the most awful case of a writer saying "How do I make this character important?" when the character is not, in fact, important at all.

Anyone got any stories that could not have survived removing Luna entirely? If so, is that story necessary enough to the story of Dominic Deegan, Oracle for Hire that it itself could not be removed entirely?

There are certainly roles for love interests to play in fantasy stories. "Goal" is, unfortunately, one of the most common ones - the love interest is the chick waiting at the end of a conga line of ever increasing baddies. But for a story where romance is the focus, the romance has to be the story, not a feature of the story.

Dominic and Luna do experience character development as a result of the romance. Dominic becomes less grouchy, Luna becomes less emo. But for that to justify it's existence the point of the story has to be "Dominic is grouchy and needs to overcome it". There have to be obsticles that Dominic couldn't beat when he was grouchy, and can beat now that he's not. Think about Yes Man, a silly romantic comedy. The romance there is meant to facilitate the transition from an insular, isolated lifestyle to an outgoing enjoyment of life, and by the end of the film Jim Carrey is able to defeat his core problem: He can now go out and socialize with friends.

At the end of Dominic and Luna's romance, Dominic still hates getting stupid questions and still manipulates people into doing what he wants. He might be less generally angry, but that might just be because he's not exposed to the idiots as frequently any more.

In the end, the Dominic and Luna romance has contributed nothing to the story that could not be easily retconned. Dominic Deegan, Oracle for Hire can continue to exist and communicate it's core storyline without the existence of Luna.

Therefore, Luna is a bad character.