Low Magic Setting Advice

[Eldariel]

Non magical melee, in D&D, with the notable exception of ToB, is pretty boring. Other systems get detailed, with active defences, parries, ripostes, and so forth. Actual differences in weapon types other than damage die. The abstraction level of D&D is such that such things get lost in the shuffle, and most melee classes get pretty hosed on skill points, making player variation pretty hard.

TPK wasn't said to be inevitible in all cases. The point is that the magic assumptions are baked into the system, so significant changes require adjustment of the system at every point. In many cases, equal, or even low CR mobs are now wildly inappropriate. A batch of shadows can pose a nasty threat to even high level melee, if they lack magic.

Same is true for just about every character under Tier 1 tho. Higher up, you can get various immunities to incorporeals/ability damage, but most parties are still gonna have trouble with Shadows. Really, it's a "problem", if that's what you wanna call it, with the system in general, not low-magic in specific.

Monsters aren't the issue; it's really quite obvious which monsters get harder (not to mention all the ones with naturally misassigned CR like Shadows) so it's trivial for DM to run with that, picking ones that are generally beatable.

[RufusCorvus]

I believe Aragorn takes out trolls (CR 5) on his own at one point.

He does, but I don't think D&D trolls work as an analogue for LotR trolls (from the movies, at least). I think they're better represented with either ogres or hill giants, depending on what power level you want to go with.

[Psyx]

I don't think you need to eliminate full spellcasters - the PC's can be the ultra rare exceptions, after all.

But if you don't then it will be a low-magic-for-everyone-EXCEPT-the-PCs; which kind of defeats the point...

Firstly, run at lower levels, because the characters were certainly not level 15+.

You need some kind of improved healing rules somehow.

In the low-magic-item game that I'm playing in, we are struggling a bit at 14th level. Monsters have HUGE BABs that make our non-magically-buffed ACs look worse than normal. At the same time, we're not tooled up with the magical gear required to cut through DR.
I'd seriously look at every monster before using it, and perhaps reducing the DR.
I'd also look to giving PCs an AC bonus equal to half their BAB to make up for the lack of magical armour.

[awa]

if you want a lord of the rings feel game make sure to remove or nerf travel items high level full casters have a wide array of abilities that make long distance travel trivial.

[Thrud]

The other problem you run into in a LotR style game is that true wizards are actually a separate race. If you are actually intending to play in middle earth, there are only 4 wizards in the world. Ever. And they are really demigods from another realm. And of course you have the problem that Gandalf actually wields Narya, the ring of fire, one of the 3 elven rings of power. So you really can't use the sort of things he is able to do as any sort of accurate gauge of what other wizards can do.

I didn't get the impression that you were actually intending to set the game in middle earth, however, in which case you don't have to worry quite so much about it. Just limiting access to spells, and blocking the sale of any magic items, will go a long way to preventing power creep. Plus warning characters that just because they make it to 3rd lvl as a wizard doesn't mean they will actually have a 2nd level spell, unless they can find one, makes it a lot less likely you will get power-mongering batman wannabes wanting to make wizards. Instead you will get players who try to play the game instead of try to break it, who are willing to give such limited powered wizards a try

You will also have great fun by never giving out the identify spell. That causes endless enjoyment as people actually have to use items to figure out what they can do, and sometimes they may never figure everything out. This makes bards exceptionally useful, btw, as bardic knowledge is nothing to sneer at in these situation.

Wizard - it's magical.
Bard - let me look at it *turns it over in his hands a few times* legends talk of blades with these markings. If I am right this was made by Snegg the smith approximately 430 years ago, and look it has no sign of rust on the blade. They say that everything that came form his forge was made with a skill and artistry that has never been matched to this day. His blades never rust, are almost impossible to break, and are so well balanced that they are a delight to wield. Some even say that his blades are so perfect that they can strike down fell creatures of all sorts.

translation = its +1.

:-D

[Kaww]

...I am trying to introduce a minimum of house rules....

I think people ignore this when they give answers and tips. So the best one is play another system.

[Starbuck_II]

The other problem you run into in a LotR style game is that true wizards are actually a separate race.

Druids, however, aren't a race but a class. Tom Babardivdi shows that.

[jmbrown]

I know OP wants to continue using 3.5 but with very few house rules, I would like to suggest RuneQuest. It's a skill based system with a heavier focus on mundane tactics in combat (like employing tricks and traps) and instead of bloating your hit points you simply become better at what you do. A goblin could, in effect, kill a veteran hero provided the hero makes foolish decisions, the goblin employs superior tactics, or the goblin is flat out lucky. Magic exists but anyone can employ it and it's designed to do simple things like improve a skill or light fires.

The system is highly supported (as it was once in the top 3 RPGs worldwide along with Traveler and D&D) and it's published under the OGL so the basic ruleset is free.

[Tyndmyr]

I think people ignore this when they give answers and tips. So the best one is play another system.

Yeah. Basically, D&D 3.5 as is, just does not work as a low magic system. Your options are as follows:

1. Get a system that is meant to be a low magic system.

2. Heavily modify D&D 3.5 until it is a low magic system.

The latter option is mostly useful if you have a lot more free time than money to buy books, and are unable to find and download one of many free RPG systems.

[Aron Times]

Wow, I never facepalmed so often in a single thread...
1. No fullcasters are not boring. Roleplaying is not only about choosing a spell, it's also about making decision (tactical and personal). Magic is just a fancy tool. And although I'm not familiar with D&D, there are hopefully different options a fighter can choose, e. g. disarming, feints and so on.
2. No fullcasters don't equal TPK with a decent DM. As CR are apparently not very precise anyway, I wouldn't care about it. Heck, in my games I never had any kind of CR and it worked out. Just estimate the danger correctly and give the players an option to avoid the battle if they are to scared.
3. No fullcasters = slow healing. Okay, this one might be correct. So what? Damage becomes *gasp* meaningful? Instant revival isn't an option? So death is meaningful as well?
Okay, the last comment is a little too sarcastic, but really, do you want to have an adventure or don't you?

1. I can roleplay equally well as a fighter or a wizard or any class. The difference between the two is that the latter can actually do useful things other than full attack and fail at skill checks. If you can use roleplaying to increase the effectiveness of a fighter, then you can do the same for the wizard.

2. Now we're getting into the "skilled DM" argument. A skilled DM can make anything good, no question about that. The problem is that even a skilled DM has a hard time guesstimating what is or isn't an appropriate encounter. You're talking about the hypothetical perfect DM, while I'm talking about a more realistic one who is not without his flaws.

3. No healing means it takes longer to get things done. While the lack of easy healing might make for a compelling story, it makes for a lousy game. Roleplaying being incapacitated in the hospital/temple/healing place is not particularly exciting.

[jmbrown]

Even earlier editions of D&D are better suited to low-magic. You stop acquiring hit dice after levels 9 or 10, attack and AC are hard capped at +20 and AC 30 (adapted to the equivalent of 3e) so the best fighter will always have a 55% chance to hit the best defended monster, few monsters (giants, dragons, and some extraplanar creatures) have HD above 9, and the only time you need to worry about magic items are weapons as some editions have monsters immunity.

Go grab Swords & Wizardry, OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, Dark Dungeons, or Lamentation of the Flame Princess, all of which are free.

[Lhurgyof]

I'm pretty sure Gandalf is a multi-classed Fighter/Wizard. That's why I'd say to allow full casters, but make them need to multiclass with a mundane class, giving the XP penalties if they don't keep the levels even.

Also, no item-creation. Maybe make it a higher level feat or ability.

1. I can roleplay equally well as a fighter or a wizard or any class. The difference between the two is that the latter can actually do useful things other than full attack and fail at skill checks. If you can use roleplaying to increase the effectiveness of a fighter, then you can do the same for the wizard.

2. Now we're getting into the "skilled DM" argument. A skilled DM can make anything good, no question about that. The problem is that even a skilled DM has a hard time guesstimating what is or isn't an appropriate encounter. You're talking about the hypothetical perfect DM, while I'm talking about a more realistic one who is not without his flaws.

3. No healing means it takes longer to get things done. While the lack of easy healing might make for a compelling story, it makes for a lousy game. Roleplaying being incapacitated in the hospital/temple/healing place is not particularly exciting.

1. Perhaps he could give out skill tricks and make certain tactical feats free?

2. Thats why you can just fight NPCs, orcs with class levels, etc. To match the party.

3. Indeed, perhaps look into some of the infusions in Masters of the Wild? Their fluff is more magic-free, and make them healing. (Minor healing in battle, and make some that give you x2 HP healed over night?)

[Ozymandias9]

I'll second the note that older versions of the game are better suited to this goal. I would suggest trying to pick up a copy of Rules Cyclopedia Basic. It's running about 30USD used on amazon these days, and I've always found it well suited when someone wants a Tolkien-esque setting.

[mabriss lethe]

It might be easier to refluff and edit down the Mutants and Masterminds (> power level 10 with severely restricted powers) or Starwars Saga rules set for use in low magic.

Actually, I think a refluffed version of the Saga rules would work out rather well in a fantasy game. Most of the classes presented still fit, even Jedi (hello Gandalf). Just reset the tech level to medieval and parse through to make sure the force powers could be adapted to fit the setting.

[true_shinken]

Ain't E6 low magic enough?

[amaranth69]

I would give the characters stat boosts every even level, not just every four and give them the abilities from the vow of poverty feat. Maybe give them the ability to overcome DR of a like level monk.

[Thrud]

Druids, however, aren't a race but a class. Tom Babardivdi shows that.

Tom Bombadil, was technically more of an 'entity' too. You have to remember that Tolkien was actually pretty Christian-centric, though not nearly as much as C.S. Lewis, of course, and most of the truly powerful beings in his world were not really 'human', having transcended that, or never really having been human to begin with. I'm pretty sure Bombadil was meant to be more like a spirit of the forest than simply a druid, though I believe that to begin with he was probably something like a druid. Not sure where I am getting that from, though. I think there is stuff in the Silmarillion, or bk of lost tales. I know that is where I got the name of the Elven Ring of Fire from, and the fact that Gandalf had it.

But I digress, back to the actual thread.

Anyway, my method easily switches you to a low magic world in 3.x with minimal house rules. Simply removing the ability to copy scrolls, and removing the ability to automatically research spells each time you gain a level. Everything beyond that is up to the DM to balance out the levels of CR the party faces, knowing that CRs are not going to translate straight across when the party doesn't have the same access to spells/magic.

[Eldariel]

Tom Bombadil, was technically more of an 'entity' too. You have to remember that Tolkien was actually pretty Christian-centric, though not nearly as much as C.S. Lewis, of course, and most of the truly powerful beings in his world were not really 'human', having transcended that, or never really having been human to begin with. I'm pretty sure Bombadil was meant to be more like a spirit of the forest than simply a druid, though I believe that to begin with he was probably something like a druid. Not sure where I am getting that from, though. I think there is stuff in the Silmarillion, or bk of lost tales. I know that is where I got the name of the Elven Ring of Fire from, and the fact that Gandalf had it.

It's theorized that he'd be an avatar of Ilúvatar, or some kind of Gaia-type spirit. Latter makes more sense since obviously Ilúvatar would have no trouble stopping Sauron (while the Council assumes Bombadil would eventually be overcome because "We've seen Sauron torture mountains"). And Narya is named in the end of Lord of the Rings, in the Grey Havens O.o

But yeah, there's stuff about that in the Book of the Lost Tales, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien and so on. Eh, and this is a long-enough aside.

[Pechvarry]

A lot of overthought happening, here. I don't see what the big deal is. Play D&D, ban full casters, sure. You know your play group better than we do. Most campaigns I've ever been in lacked full casters as-is, and we do fine. Just know what your players' characters are capable of, read a Monster Manual entry, and think "would X ability or damage bonus completely destroy my party?"

[Moridin]

Buy Iron Heroes and run with it.

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?iron-lore

Useful for lower magic settings and the combat is much more fun, with stunts and levelled feats. The stunts allow stuff we see in the movies to happen, like Legolas attacking that oliphant and killing every single man in it (and the oliphant). It actually rewards the players who think of such stuff, instead of the usual "I attack with my sword".

I'd recommend disappearing with the iterated attacks and adding a bonus to the character's damage equal to 1/2 the attack bonus (like the Saga system). The best part is it's still D20, so you can use the same monsters. Except for the ones with instant death effects (beholders, medusas, catoblepas, gorgons). Those should be used sparingly and I recommend 4th edition rules on how petrification works, slowly turning each part of the body into stone.

[Starbuck_II]

Yes, Iron Heroes is a great game.

Well, Archer, Berserker, Executioner, Harrier, Hunter, and thief are great.

Armiger, Man At arms, and Arcanist need work.

[Psyren]

If you must do this with D&D it's possible; however, you'll have a lot of editing to do with regards to toning down/removing difficult monsters, adjusting skills for non-combat encounters, compensating for lack of magical healing/travel/utility etc.