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Thread: Is Blade barrier invisible?
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2010-11-27, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Is Blade barrier invisible?
Just reading blade barrier spell again... It's a force based spell, and alot of the other force based spells are invisible, so is blade barrier?
Doesn't say it is, but doesn't say it's not.Always attack a man’s strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle that’s where the action is. And it’s the same in life. Don’t run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.
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2010-11-27, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-27, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
I had always envisioned it as a barrier made out of actual, you know...swords. And it does provide cover, which would incline me towards it being semisolid, or at least visible. But check with your DM to be sure (if you are the DM, make your own ruling).
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2010-11-27, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Blade Barrier is visible.
It provides cover, cover allows hiding. Hiding behind invisible things makes no sense.
Wall of force gives you full cover, can you hide behind that?
Wall of water gives cover and is transparent (not opaque), can you hide behind that?
Just because something provides cover does not mean it isn't see through.Always attack a man’s strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle that’s where the action is. And it’s the same in life. Don’t run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.
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2010-11-27, 08:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Let's see....
Originally Posted by SRD - Blade Barrier
Originally Posted by SRD - Wall of ForceOriginally Posted by SRD - Mage ArmorOriginally Posted by SRD - Forcecage
Originally Posted by SRD - Resilient SphereOriginally Posted by SRD - Interposing HandOriginally Posted by SRD - Tiny Hut
Seems to me that if the effect is invisible, it will say so. Don't assume that anything made of pure force is invisible, because that's blatantly untrue.
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2010-11-27, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
In ddo it has a visual effect.
"Quick Draw. It grants the ability to turn any boring non-combat scenario into combat as a FREE ACTION."-Deleted User
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2010-11-27, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
I didn't assume it was invisible, I asked a question in order to see if its written somewhere differently in one of the other WOTC books or already answered in a sage advice.
Battering ram, Blast of force, Force Claw, Battering Ram, Wall of Force, Force cage and Mage Armor are specifically invisible.
Force Chest you can choose weather it's visible or not.
Persistent Blade and Vortex of Teeth are both translucent.
The Chain Missile, Dinosaur Stampede, Enveloping cocoon, Ethereal chamber, Force missile, Force wave, Howling Chain, Manyjaws, Moonpath, Slapping Hand, Spiritjaws, Sword of Deception, Thunderlance and Wingbind Spells all give exact descriptions of what they look like.
Bigby's spell don't ever say there are visible. Neither does Tenser’s Floating Disk, Magic missile, Spiritual weapon, Gembomb or Blade Barrier.
So, these hand full of spells that do not state whether they are visible or invisible.
How do you determine if they are visible or invisible?Last edited by Splendor; 2010-11-27 at 08:54 AM.
Always attack a man’s strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle that’s where the action is. And it’s the same in life. Don’t run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.
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2010-11-27, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Gut DM call. Will the pc's abuse it if it is invisible? yes? visible. no? invisible
"Quick Draw. It grants the ability to turn any boring non-combat scenario into combat as a FREE ACTION."-Deleted User
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2010-11-27, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Yeah, an invisible Blade Barrier is definitely abusable. Just cast and lure enemies across it...
You should have to deliberately cast it with Invisible Spell for that to work.
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2010-11-27, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
If the spell description specifically says it's invisible, as noted above with Wall Of Force, Mage Armor, and such, then it's invisible. Otherwise, it has a specific appearance - whirling blades for Blade Barrier, giant floating hands for Bigby's spells, etc.
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2010-11-27, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
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2010-11-27, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
My point was it will SAY whether or not it's invisible, since that's a rather important detail. Blade barrier is described as being blades, so it looks like blades. I'm sure there's a whole host of non-Force spells that don't bother to mention their visibility, either. Why haven't you asked about them?
Is bull's strength invisible? Now that's a question!Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2010-11-27 at 07:10 PM.
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2010-11-27, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
- If it provides cover (at a cursory glance, I couldn't find the rule you're referring to), you can hide behind it, assuming you're not being observed, or have appropriate HiPS.
- Wall of Force blocks the line of effect, and thus provides total cover, so technically you wouldn't have to hide.
- Wall of Water seems to provide cover against attacks only (or more specifically, against attacks from the outside to the inside, but not the other way around) so you can't hide behind it. You might be able to hide inside it, though.
Last edited by Greenish; 2010-11-27 at 09:45 PM.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-11-27, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
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2010-11-27, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-11-27, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
False - you can spot invisible creatures without magic, so there is at least some light refraction going on. This is further supported by the fact that moving invisible things are easier to see.
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2010-11-27, 10:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
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2010-11-27, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Of course it's an assumption - as I was not a member of the PHB design team, I can only assume what they meant by "invisible." But being an assumption doesn't make it wrong.
If invisible in D&D truly meant "unable to be detected visually" then no DC of Spot check would work - they would automatically fail (just like Listen checks automatically fail in magical silence.) Since they don't, there is clearly something there to be detected.Last edited by Psyren; 2010-11-27 at 11:08 PM.
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2010-11-27, 11:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
i always assumed it was stuff like spotting the grass bending under the invisible person feet and other similar effects.
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2010-11-27, 11:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2010-11-27, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
some other subtle effect such as the way the dust in the air blows around them.
I could point out that invisibility works on creatures with dark vison in complete darkness so your argument has whole as well.
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2010-11-28, 03:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
That is more a commentary on how darkvision itself defies logic than any problem with my own reasoning. Also, the spot check would work even in a dust-free environment, or underwater, or in a pocket dimension/rope trick etc. The only commonality between those places where sight would be concerned would be a presence or absence of light.
The Giant's take on darkvision is that it actually creates light (see oots #76 and# 471); while that's not my personal view, it does actually provide an explanation of how the bloody thing works.Last edited by Psyren; 2010-11-28 at 03:19 AM.
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2010-11-28, 06:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
IMO you could rule it either way really.
personally i think the visual aspect is cool so my group uses it. I like to think of it as the one that we see in OoTS
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2010-11-28, 07:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-28, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
Yeah, there would be a big you shaped hole in the water
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2010-11-28, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
if darkvison created light then every one could see by it which is a massive change to the rules. darkvison would instead just be light
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2010-11-28, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-11-28, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Is Blade barrier invisible?
I know that - I'm sure Elan being "blinded" by Durkon's darkvision was pure Rule of Funny. What I'm pointing out is the deeper meaning behind that joke - that nobody actually knows how Darkvision works.
In any case, I reiterate - it's possible to see invisible things without magic, therefore they aren't truly invisible. I personally think refracting light makes more sense than random particles or pieces of the creature retaining visibility.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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