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Thread: Erfworld, The Thread.
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2012-10-31, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Your misreading the warning. the Warning is about what MAY happen should Jillian try to avoid her fate of helping Wanda in her transition. Because we know she wins we know that she took the easy way; she followed her fate, acquired wanda and moved on. However, IF Jillian tried to avoid coming in contact with Wanda ever again, then there is no telling what she would loose...
For instance she could try to ignore the note and continue on, but then in the future haffaton would find Faq and destory it and her father leaving her with only the forces she could evaculate with; from there she should fight against haffaton finally getting in the capital strike that would bring wanda into her fold... the outcome is the same, but this one cost the life of her father, and the original capital
The cruel irony is that even though Jillian did follow her fate, Faq and Banhammer were lost and Wanda and Jack separated from her. Though granted, that could be more wanda's fault... Wanda may not have realized it herself, but fate may have deemed she needed to join up with Stanley and there were other ways wanda could have done that in which would not have led to Faq's end...
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2012-10-31, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Because you aren't thinking it all the way through. She's supposed to contact and help Wanda as soon as possible. She is planning on making a Capital Strike against Haffaton. Being an Heir, Wanda shouldn't disband if she's not in a city when her side falls. Jillian IS going to be joining Wanda soon, she's simply doing it by capturing her instead of turning. Though I suspect if she realized this, she'd not do it purely out of spite.
Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
Swoop Falcon
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2012-10-31, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Banhammer's and Faq's fall weren't avoidable; Marie already predicted it.
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2012-11-01, 03:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Predictamancy doesn't work that way, as far as we know--it's not a 100% guarantee that what is predicted will happen. Delphie, also a Predictamancer, tried to manipulate Wanda into a different course in order to avoid the future she predicted, and I don't think she'd have bothered if that future was set in stone and unavoidable, do you?
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2012-11-01, 07:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Jillian, you really need to learn how to keep your mouth shut.
SpoilerAnd Olive Branch is back. She is a level 12! Frankly, I would rather be around nutso Wanda than Olive. Maybe Wanda will get the opportunity to finally gang the <explitive delted>.
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2012-11-01, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
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2012-11-01, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Nice choice in song. Gotta love the 50s.
Avatar by Glasswhistle
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2012-11-01, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Delphie didn't try to avoid what she Predicted, she tried to choose how to fulfill it.
Predictamancy, from everything shown so far, is in fact a 100% guarantee that what is Predicted will happen. It's just that it Predicts only specific details rather than the whole picture. Delphie Predicted that Olive would be Wanda's Chief Caster for a long time. She did not Predict how this would come to pass. Given that one certainty, she attempted to arrange for it to happen by means of a voluntary trade, thereby putting Wanda under Olive's command - as Predicted - while improving Goodminton's position by whatever Haffaton was willing to pay for her.
For Jillian's situation, the following things have been Predicted: Wanda will serve FAQ for some amount of time; Jillian will be involved in how this happens; King Banhammer will die; FAQ's capital city will fall. Those are officially unavoidable. How they happen is up for grabs.
Jillian could lead FAQ's entire army to take Haffaton city, as she seems to be planning; she could make a one-person raid; she could turn herself in and talk Wanda into defecting together; she could get captured, get taken back to Wanda, and talk her into defecting; or any number of other possible routes for Wanda to switch allegiances with some manner of prompting by Jillian.
FAQ could fall to Haffaton; FAQ could be overrun by barbarians; FAQ could raze its own capital; FAQ could go bankrupt and disband; FAQ could get taken by surprise by some other side (as we know from our privileged audience position eventually happens with Stanley).
Banhammer could get croaked when FAQ is taken (by whoever); Banhammer could suicide by walking through the Magic Kingdom portal; Banhammer could lead an army in the field and die there; Banhammer could trip and fall, breaking his neck in a freak accident.
Certain extremely specific outcomes are dictated by Fate and revealed by Predictamancy. That still leaves a great deal of flexibility in how those outcomes happen and what any related outcomes are, and planning and scheming to make the best of it - still fulfilling every Predicted detail in its entirety, but in the manner you choose - can work, and that is what the best Predictamancy is all about.Last edited by Douglas; 2012-11-01 at 09:39 AM.
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2012-11-01, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
That's basically what I said, when she ran into the Archons! And why didn't she assume that anything Olive Branch does is a trap? She's run slap-bang into both the poison apples and the chillaxe, then she fails to get out of her perch before it becomes an enemy unit (in other news, that's how tannenbaums are made) and then puts a flower that Branch tossed her in her hair. Where it attached to her head and drugged her.
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2012-11-01, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
To be fair, I think it had already drugged her, just not to the full extent that being on the head allowed.
Jillian's real mistake was mentioning the bombing tactic. That both told Olive that further measures were necessary and gave her the idea of dropping something on Jillian from above - which apparently doesn't count as an attack even if it is something dangerous and deliberate.Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.
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2012-11-01, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
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2012-11-01, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-11-01, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
That was my next thought. It is plausible, given that Haffaton is nowhere to be seen in the present day and Faq is still (technically) a bubble kingdom, that no one knew about it. Jillian would have been able to recognize and react to the "it's raining dwagons" ploy if she was present at the battle, but of course she left as soon as Wanda and Jack declined her offer.
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2012-11-01, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
They WERE aware of the ballistic properties of battlecrap, it's why they'd had the dwagons moved away from the tower as a condition of parley. Which also happened to be exactly what Parson wanted. The exploit in play there was changing zones off-turn, not attacking without engaging.
Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
Swoop Falcon
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2012-11-01, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Bad to the Bone!
Miko Miyazaki : Strip #120 - #464 : R.I.P.
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2012-11-01, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
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2012-11-01, 09:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Not exponentially, logarithmically
Avatar by kpenguin
Spoiler
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2012-11-02, 02:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
If it's exponentially harder, then even with a linear increas of XP gain over levels you get approximately logarythmic function of levels gained over time - that's what most online RPG games are build around.
If it were logarythmically harder to gain new levels, then with linear increase in XP gain, you would gain levels faster with each level gained, which is not very balanced.In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
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2012-11-02, 03:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Olive Branch, a Dame with style. You should kill her on sight.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2012-11-02, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-11-02, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
I think I see Charlie's plan at this point.
He wants Parson to pass through the portal, at which point:
1. The people in Jetstone will close it behind him by changing the capital.
2. A decapitation strike of subverted Gobwins, cloaked Archons, and perhaps his casters pouring in from the portal will take out Stanley. Since the portal in Jetstone in closed, they won't be able to retreat to the magic kingdom or to Stanley when they realize he's under attack.
This will result in Parson getting frozen as a neutral in Jetstone, where he can be easily captured.
Am I missing anything? Everything seems to point to that plan, anyway.
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2012-11-02, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Well, several problems there:
a) The idea of someone attacking another side through the Magic Kingdom was literally unthinkable before Parson just decided to do it!
b) Even without that, how is Charlie going to get all those forces through the portal into Gobwin Knob?
c) For all Charlie (and us, for that matter) knows, Parson will disappear once his side ends just like almost all other units in Erfworld do. Only heirs are known to be able to remain behind as barbarians, and Parson certainly isn't that!
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2012-11-02, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Just as much as posting in the wrong thread.
Almost: units in the cities belonging to a side, which ruler was killed without leaving a heir, remain frozen in time unless someone attacks the city. Still, it would not work in this situation, since Spacerock is still a Jetstone city.In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.
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2012-11-02, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2012-11-03, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
He doesn't actually have to. The Gobwins are, presumably, already there (they overthrew a ruler like this once before.) His Archons could be there, too, since they're good at going invisible. I assume he just called the Carneymancer in for backup, and this is what Marie is waiting for -- for the other side to be the first to break the MK's neutrality.
But attacking through MK isn't really the important part (I only mentioned it as a "maybe" because it fits with what Marie is waiting for.) We already know that Charlie has subverted Gobwin Knob's gobwins, and that they murdered king Saline IV once. Likewise, we've already seen that he's very good at hiding Archons in key locations.
c) For all Charlie (and us, for that matter) knows, Parson will disappear once his side ends just like almost all other units in Erfworld do. Only heirs are known to be able to remain behind as barbarians, and Parson certainly isn't that!Last edited by Aquillion; 2012-11-03 at 03:40 AM.
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2012-11-04, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
So, on last update:
Jillian, who has been hunted for turns and has been on the tip of her toes the whole time, sits in a tree and watches a powerful and ruthless hippiemancer touch it to capture her. And then Jillian, who rather endured brutal torture for many turns than giving away any information to Wanda and instead manipulated Wanda with lies and misinformation to get free, gives away her escape plan. Lesson learned Jillian. But fate has decided on some plot points to happen, and so the characters have to act accordingly.
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2012-11-04, 07:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Nothing wrong with giving away your escape plan when you know the other side can't stop it. How do you stop a yellow from crapping without engaging it?
Man this thing was full of outdated stuff.
Swoop Falcon
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2012-11-04, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
The other side is an extremely high level caster, and of a discipline Jillian doesn't know much about. "Assume she has a way" should be an extremely basic tenet of typical guidelines for how to handle such a situation. Casters have such extreme power and versatility in Erfworld that any time you encounter one, especially one that's high level and/or of an unfamiliar discipline, you should assume she has a dozen tricks you've never heard of. In particular, you should never assume that none of these tricks could foil your plan if she knows of it.
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2012-11-05, 04:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2012-11-06, 03:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
Re: Erfworld, The Thread.
New page up.
SpoilerJillian has turned into a Flower junkie without realizing it. And we get to meet someone new of importance.