A new take on community world-building (editionless)

[AgentPaper]

So most of you are probably familiar with the idea behind community world-building. A bunch of people throw a bunch of ideas around, some are awesome, some are terrible, and in the end there's usually an awesome, unique world to be had . . . if you're willing to go trudging through the 40+ pages of random crap to get to it. In an attempt to get something useful and concrete out of all this creative-juice-flowing, I have this proposal:

You, the community, will go about your way happily throwing out many a plentiful creative and awesome idea, and I, the generally uncreative but logical person that I am, will compile those ideas into a rational, fleshed out, structured, and hopefully awesome campaign setting.

We'll start things off with a couple votes, but there's also a few things I want to set in concrete before we get going to provide some structure.

First things first: Twelve. Twelve is going to be a key number in this setting. There are 12 ancient heroes, 12 great nations, 12 lands, 12 artifacts of legend, and so on. Now this isn't just some random number I pulled out of a hat; some of you may be familiar with the literary archetypes: The Innocent, the Orphan, the Warrior, the Caregiver, the Seeker, the Lover, the Destroyer, the Creator, the Ruler, the Magician, the Sage, and the Jester. Each represents a powerful persona and identity. If you're not familiar with the archetypes then scroll down and read up on them in the spoiler.

While most people can't be placed into any single one of these categories exclusively, the idea is that the 12 heroes each represented the extremes of that way of living, the best and the worst, and because of their powerful personalities they each created a nation, created or obtained an artifact, and accomplished great deeds that made them into legends. Many other things will likely be divided into twelve parts, for example twelve elements or twelve gods, depending on how the setting shapes up.

Probably the main goal of this project for me is to create a setting that really ties everything together. Each nation should have it's own unique story and culture, from renaissance Britain to pre-colonization Hawaii to Inuit tribes to Timbuktu. Even beyond the twelve "main" nations there's plenty of room for minor nations and groups that don't play as big a role, so there's room for everything. That said, I don't want to just copy-paste earth into a fantasy world, so each culture should be unique and distinctive from it's inspiration. This is where the combined creativity and varied outlooks of all the various contributors comes in, so go wild.


Whew, well with that out of the way (hopefully I haven't lost too many people with the walls of text ) now we get to voting. Not too much for now, just basic technology level, magic level, and grit level. Each of these can and will vary from area to area in the world, so even if we end up with low-magic steampunk there's still room for a nation of magically-adept beings with primitive technology, as long as it ties in with the rest of the world. These kinds of crossovers are even more likely if there's a lot of votes for something that didn't win, so even if it looks like everyone else is voting for stone age, don't be afraid to vote futuristic and hope for some 2001: A Space Odyssey style monolith action.


Technology:

1) Stone: Most people still hunt for their own food.
2) Copper: Cities are new to the world.
3) Bronze: People are starting to organize and create, nations are beginning to form.
4) Iron: Cities are getting big, enough people are freed from working farms to make a living doing something else.
5) Renaissance: Rational thought is triumphing over superstition and myth.
6) Industrial: Efficient production means luxuries for the masses.
7) Modern: The Internet or equivalent means everyone is connected to everyone else.
8) Futuristic: Lasers and refractor beams and spaceships!


Magic:

1) None: Magic doesn't exist in the world except in fairy tales.
2) Very Low: There's like 12 magicians. Period.
3) Low: My uncle's brother in law saw a mage once. No really!
4) Moderate: I hope I don't die before the witch-doctor comes around this year to heal me.
5) High: Our local wizard is such a ripoff; he charges twice as much to bless my crops than the one in the town over!
6) Very High: I hate magic class, all the other kids are so much better at it than me!
7) Ludicrous: I was thinking I'd take her on a cruise through the pocket dimension I've been working on as a hobby, then we'd head to the mana-bowl flying stadium, and when the djinni come out I'll show her the +12 eternal flaming brilliant ghost-touch dream-diamond ring of joy and pop the question.


Grit:

1) Fairy-tale: Even the bad guy ends up coming around eventually.
2) Kid's cartoon: The good guys win and the bad guys laugh maniacally.
3) Hollywood ending: Some bad stuff happens but it ends up OK in the end.
4) Realistic: There's good times and there's bad times, but it's always something different. There's no such thing as pure good OR evil.
5) Grit-lite: Everyone is bad, which makes the few good people that much more special.
6) True Grit: Nobody is really good. It's all shades of grey, and most of them are pretty dark.
7) Lovecraft: You're insane? Lucky bastard.


All votes must be in bold, try to make them as clear as possible. If you change your vote note it in a new post and edit the vote out of your previous post. I'll leave this voting open for a week, until 1 AM pacific time next Monday. (aka when the forum resets)

For now I'd like it if we could focus on voting, but feel free to put out some ideas to inspire people to choose one option over another. Once voting is over I'll go into more depth on how the whole contribution and compilation system will work.

Also just to be clear, I'll be having a single (1) vote myself, but I won't make it until later on to avoid skewing anything.

A short (hah) summary of the 12 archetypes.

Spoiler

Show

A more in-depth look at these archetypes can be found here. It costs money, but in my opinion it's definitely worth it, even if you're not a writer.

The Innocent: Every cloud has a silver lining.

At best, the innocent exemplifies what a life of faith and simple goodness brings to the world. He has a basic trust in others and in the world as a safe place. At worst, he is naive and overconfident, and gets himself and others into trouble with his foolishness.

The Orphan: It pays to be careful.

At best, the orphan demonstrates the resilience to survive life's tragedies and shortcoming. He assumes that the world is out to get him, and often he's right. At worst, he's cynical and bitter, and hurts others to try and protect himself.

The Warrior: The tough prevail.

At best, the warrior is courageous and determined. He has the will to fight for what he believes in, no matter the odds. At worst, he's stubborn and closeminded, viewing anyone who disagrees with him as bad.

The Caregiver: You should help others.

At best, the caregiver is kind an nurturing, improving the world by helping others. He puts the wants and needs of others before his own. At worst, he's controlling and manipulative "for their own good", a martyr, or even an enabler for another's weaknesses.

The Seeker: The grass is always greener.

At best the seeker is independent and adventurous, always looking for something new. He peels back the fog and reveals the unknown to the world. At worst, he runs away from responsibility and alienates others trying too hard to be different.

The Lover: Love is the answer.

At best, the lover is a passionate, loving person who sees the beauty in life. He helps others realize their true feelings and nature, and gives them happiness. At worst, he can be overly dependent on others, play favorites and exclude people, or hurt people as old passions die and new passions arise.

The Destroyer: You should cut your losses.

At best, the destroyer is able to identify weakness and root it out, making themselves and others stronger in the process. When problems come up he has the strength to accept what has happened and move on. At worst, he may break ethical or legal laws because "the end justifies the means", or lash out and hurt others or themselves in anger.

The Creator: What can be imagined can be created.

At best, the creator is imaginative and inspired, able to create beauty for others to appreciate and be inspired by in turn. He avoids the shallow and the mundane, preferring for deeper, more meaningful pursuits. At worst, he is overly critical of others, an elitist to whom everything must be beautiful to be worthwhile.

The Ruler: You should exercise control.

At best, the ruler takes charge and accepts responsibility, bringing order out of chaos. He brings the best out of those he leads, and keeps things running smoothly. At worst, he's controlling and power-hungry, using his power for his own amusement and benefit.

The Magician: Perception defines reality.

At best, the magician is a visionary that can turn dreams into reality. He excels at shifting his own or other's perception to see things in a new light. At worst, he sets unrealistic expectations for himself or others, or loses track of reality with cultish behavior and mysticism.

The Sage: The truth will set you free.

At best, the sage is curious, perceptive, and objective enough to find truth and wisdom when it seems unclear. He excels at sorting through information and finding the important facts. At worst, he's objective to the point of de-humanization, or gets so caught up in high-sounding ideas and principles that they can't get anything practical done.

The Jester: Life is meant to be enjoyed.

At best, the jester is happy, playful, and funny, and brings joy to others. He helps people be happy even when times look rough, an can bring unexpected solutions to problems by thinking outside the box. At worst, he's irresponsible and prone to debauchery, or hurts others to amuse himself.

[Yora]

Maybe you should specify in the thread title that this is actually a community world building thread, and not a thread about community world-building.

[IcarusWings]

I'm gonna' go with

Early BRONZE AGE: It's the least done of them all (along with stone age), and, in my opinion, fits the theme best. It's an age where all knowledge was oral, so stories about the heroes would grow and twist, until no-one completely knew them any more. But it's an age still young enough to have the memories at all.

LOW: Fits better with the theme and what I'd like from Bronze Age, I just can't imagine anyone finding the heroes special if magic is common and everyday (not that the heroes are all magic of course).
However, if Low does win, I'm still fine with having some of the antagonists of the setting having high magic, which is what makes them so dangerous.

REALISTIC: Not too grimdark, but not on the verge of just being silly either.

[kopout]

Hmmm
lets go with
Technology:


Late Bronze to early iron


Magic:

ModerateOn average some places have high other places low


Grit:

Realistic:

[Zaydos]

Tech: Early Bronze

Magic: Medium for humanoids but with plenty of magical monstrosities.

Tone: Going to go against my normal nature and say Grit-Lite; maybe it's that I'm in a mood for tragic heroes.

[AgentPaper]

I had assumed it would be obvious, but you only get one vote per topic. If you make multiple votes I'll just be taking the first one in bold.

I'll be tallying the vote up at the end of each day.

[Owrtho]

I'll vote for:
Iron, as things would actually be getting developed enough to be interesting.

Moderate, with some places being low and others high.

Grit-lite, I'd vote for traditional fairy-tale, but that isn't an option, and this seems the closest approximation.

Owrtho

[AgentPaper]

Tallies so far:

{table=head]Technology|Votes|
Stone|0|
Copper|0|
Bronze|3|lll
Iron|1|l
Renaissance|0|
Industrial|0|
Modern|0|
Futuristic|0|[/table]


{table=head]Magic|Votes|
None|0|
Very Low|0|
Low|1|l
Moderate|3|lll
High|0|
Very High|0|
Ludicrous|0|[/table]


{table=head]Grit|Votes|
Fairy Tale|0|
Kid's cartoon|0|
Hollywood|0|
Realistic|2|ll
Grit-lite|2|ll
True Grit|0|
Lovecraft|0|[/table]

And to hopefully help people get some ideas churning, here's some notes I had on a possible nation/culture for the world:

Spoiler

Show

Nation 6
Hero: The Lover
Element: Soul
Inspiration: India

A strict caste system combined with a house system means that every child at birth is locked into their path in life . . . at least in theory. It's common, almost expected, that they will rebel against their "chosen path" in some way or another, often by falling in love with someone far above or below them and not of their house. Nation 6 is famous for it's love of romance and drama, both in their theaters and in their daily lives.

Trivia: Twins are holy in Nation 6. They are seen as a blessing from The Lover, and by tradition the twins are treated as the same person, even going so far as to marry the same person. (or people, if they marry another twin-pair) Twins are both given the same name, though they often have an added syllable that their close friends can use to refer to one or the other. (ie: A twin-pair's name might be Galen, with each one being referred to as Galentea and Galentor)

Military: The soldiers of Nation 6 come from two sources: Children of the great houses who become archers and commanders, and the bastard children of un-sanctified pairings who make up the bulk of the army. (there is never a shortage of bastards in Nation 6) All of these soldiers share one trait in that they are soldiers for life, and in battle even a bastard can hope to win glory, fame, and perhaps most importantly, adoption.

Virtues: Passion, commitment, enthusiasm, sensual pleasure
Vices: Objectifying others, romance or sex addictions, out of control sexuality

[DragonOfUndeath]

This sounds good.
1. Industrial
2. Grit-Lite
3. Very High Magic
Revoted

Also can I claim Ruler? I have a good idea for a Race that would fit perfectly into that archetype

[Necro_EX]

By editionless do you mean the edition is yet to be picked, or that you're going to hope the fluff is awesome enough to stand on its own two legs and support multiple editions/systems?

Anyway, on to casting my votes.

Tech: I'm tempted to go with everyone else on the bronze age, but I'd rather see it in the late bronze age, my self. It'd be a world on the verge of some new technological advances, but would still keep that pre-renaissance feel that's so iconic of fantasy. I'm also very tempted to vote on renaissance, because that's easily one of my favorite time periods. :D

I guess I'll throw in with the bronze age crowd. It just hasn't been done as much. (Of course, I'm sure stone age is the least touched on, but the reasons for that are obvious enough.)

magic: Low, but with some elements of high magical fantasy; the mages that do exist shouldn't be complete wus-bags. Actually, it would be interesting to make magic something more subtle than it is in most fantasy settings...think Shadowrun's adepts. Something like that could be pretty awesome, and doesn't really trample on the toes of bronze-age warriors.

Grit: Grit-lite, but on the grittier end of it. Truly good folk should really shine, because gritty grey-gray morality should be the norm.

Also, just throwing it out there, but I think a Celtic feel would be pretty awesome. Especially if everyone's thinking bronze age for the tech level. I see from what you've written out about 'nation 6' that you're likely thinking each nation should draw from a different real-world culture (or two), but don't throw out the idea of a more culturally homogeneous world entirely! Those can be pretty interesting, too because the cultures have to be separated on more subtle levels than what IRL culture they've drawn from the most heavily.

Of course, bold separations like that are definitely prevalent throughout fantasy, and it would definitely help to solidify the theme of 12.

[ForzaFiori]

This looks like it'll be interesting. Here's my votes:

Tech: Bronze Age - late bronze if it makes a difference, with iron weapons being seen, though extremely rare. Perhaps they can take the place of magic weapons due to the...

Magic: Low - Not to the point where people question it's existence, but magic should be rare. If you die, or are hurt, there isn't gonna be a mage around the corner to fix you up, and magic weapons take a quest and a lot of guts to get. Which leads us into our third topic

Grit: Realistic - everyone being bad is just as unbelievable as everyone being good. While being good isn't unheard of, and people may want to help you, the low levels of tech and magic prevent this from being much lower on the grit level. (lower as in less grit)


A Celtic feel might not be too terribly hard to split into a few countries (base one each on Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Brittany, Cornwall, and the Isle of Man (and if you can name another place that still speaks a celtic tongue, I'll congratulate you)), but 12 might be pushing it.

[Voldecanter]

Tech: Renaissance

Magic: Low

Grit: Realistic


If I can add an additional suggestion, perhaps Hermetic Magic would make a good spin on this setting? Such as the God of Magic would be something like Hermes/Thoth, and it would be a quasi-religious tradition that teaches magic. Other great wizards/alchemists could be used to make the over-all God of Magic.

And just because the general populace doesn't deal with wizards, doesn't necessarily mean they don't know they exist, or are myths, perhaps have magic-users seen as great scientists or mathematicians- they exist but are hard to come by.

Going the Hermetic Magic way, mystery schools/cults could be teaching magic to those that are committed and apt enough to handle the training.

[starwoof]

Hmm Hmm then, world building you say.

Tech: Iron Age. Any less feels too limiting, and limits are boring.

Magic: Low. Lots of supernatural monsters though.

Grit: Grit-Lite. Bad things happen and there's nothing you can do about it!

[Nopraptor]

Iron,Low,True Grit
oh and new cultures, I'm sick of frickin europe by now

[IcarusWings]

I'm gonna' throw in the fact that I agree with the whole celtic feel. That's what I think of when I hear Bronze Age anyway (probably because I'm British, so British history comes to mind first). And we could give magic a very druidic feel (celtic druidic, not druidzilla).

[Comet]

Bronze
Low
Grit-lite

And I have to say that it's all kinds of awesome to see this much focus on story and character archetypes and all that good stuff.

[Yora]

Gritty, low magic, bronze age is in demand? Now I get interested.

- Bronze Age
- Low Magic
- Grit-Lite

Matches quite well with my homebrew setting, maybe I get some good ideas here.

[Telonius]

Renaissance Tech
Moderate Magic
Grit Lite

The Lover, Caregiver, Creator and Sage seem to be most comfortably at home and active in a Renaissance era or afterwards, at least in my opinion. Renaissance gives things like Magician the freedom to operate without too much fear of being burned at the stake. Orphan and Warrior seem to suggest at least a bit of Grit; but Lover, Caregiver, and (especially) Innocent would be horrendously depressing to play if there's too much of it. Creator and Magician seem to imply at least a bit of magic in existence, but the fact that they're only two of twelve says to me that magic is neither all-pervasive nor even all that common.

[Necro_EX]

I'm gonna' throw in the fact that I agree with the whole celtic feel. That's what I think of when I hear Bronze Age anyway (probably because I'm British, so British history comes to mind first). And we could give magic a very druidic feel (celtic druidic, not druidzilla).

I'd like to second this motion, with a possible additional clause.
The world could be grit-lite, but the deities could be mildly Lovecraftian in nature. I'm not implying they should be galaxy-and-dimension spanning horrors of pure madness and entropy, but in that they should have a certain amount of detachment from the sentient races. There are plenty of settings with deities that take personal interest in the population of their world, and far too few that don't.

Just imagine that setting's version of an Obadd-Hai. He'd seek nothing more than to propagate plant-life and druids following him may even be driven to maddening extremes.

Eco-terrorists. :D

[Yora]

I really like that concept as well. Having physical demi-gods that are extremely powerful, but seem to live in an entirely different world than mortals. People try to gain their favor, but you can never be really sure if it works. Or if they even take notice of your existance.

[AgentPaper]

Ah, good to see the ideas flowing!

It would certainly be great to have one of the nations have a strong celtic theme to it, but I'm going to remain steadfast that there's no over-arching theme that defines the whole world. This is meant to be a living, breathing world, one that you can stage many many stories in. An entire campaign can take place without ever leaving one of the 12 lands, but you can also have a campaign that spans the entire world, with new, exciting places to see and people to meet almost every session. That said, it is still fantasy so the cultures will tend to be more exaggerated and focused than their real-world inspiration.

Still, even in a single land there is lots of room for regional differences, and especially for different factions and inner turmoil. The original 12 nations was a long time ago, and most of them have likely become a shadow of their former glory, or has split into competing factions, as nations are wont to do over time.

The 12 gods being uncaring of the whims and needs of mortal people sounds good to me. Probably more closer to the greek gods than lovecraftian, especially if they're going to align with the 12 archetypes in any way.

Also, I'm not sure I like this talk of druids and wizards and such so early on. When I say editionless, I mean that this setting isn't meant for any specific RPG system. I may very well translate it for use with 3.5 or 4E, and others might translate it for use in other systems, but it's not meant to be D&D 3.5 Faerun knockoff #2941. I was hoping for a new, unique magic system, perhaps even a number of them.

Another note, is that the setting itself is intended more to be a good place to tell stories in, than to be a good place to run around killing monsters in. Monsters, if they even exist, should fill a very specific role and be more akin to beasts and/or natural disasters than anything else. The main opponent you'll ever be facing will be human. (or whatever race(s) we end up using)

[IcarusWings]

I was thinking for the celtic thing, so that we can have it as a major aspect without dominating the setting. How about the previous ancient civilisation that's died out, and to which the heroes belonged, was celtic, and a good few of the nations have heavy celtic themes, and the others have at least a few minor ones?

EDIT: And for the wizards and druids thing, in my post I meant all spell-casting, rather than DnD spellcasters. So it still fits with any rpg that has magic.

[Karoht]

Gritty, low magic, bronze age is in demand? Now I get interested.

- Bronze Age
- Low Magic
- Grit-Lite

Matches quite well with my homebrew setting, maybe I get some good ideas here.

The first thing that comes to mind is Romans and Celts.
Like Last Legion or that King Arthur movie with that awesome old guy playing a mostly naked and one eyed Merlin.

My vote:
Bronze Age
Low Magic
True Grit

Maybe not Romans and Celts though. Earthy, basic magic for sure.
Maybe more like Nordic peoples arriving in North America and meeting the Native Americans or mayans or aztecs (only bronze age).
Or Middle East meets Asia. Monks with a mild bit of Cleric? Magic and Fireworks and Greek Fire all kind of blended together?
High Greek meets Africa? Tribal spirits and animals and nature's fury and the Greek Pantheon? Egypt meets Africa even?
Wow, so many great ways this Bronze Age theme could go down, and we're just talking historical peoples, let alone fantasy races.
Inter-clan Dwarf war is a bit off for the bronze age, more stone age or iron. But early orc "industrialization" and warfare with bronze just sounds so awesome.

[DragonOfUndeath]

I'll be using a Homebrew Race I've been cooking up. It's a little monstrous though.
My Kingdom is more like a collection of Tribes that have mostly the same rules and serve an Arch-Queen. The Males think with their feet. They choose which Queen to serve and each Male Supporter gives them more land. Almost everything revolves around the Queens and the Arch-Queen.
The Queen with the most supporters is the Arch-Queen.
The Kingdom isn't xenophobic but you have to be a member of this Race to be a member of the Kingdom. The Kingdom can even overlap other kingdoms with little difficulty if needed.

[Welknair]

Technology: Futuristic
Magic: Ludicrous High
Grit: Realistic

Yes. Best of course if you can mesh the first two... perhaps with Magitech?

[Vadin]

My vote is for

Futuristic: in the sense that there is high technology available to most people, population density is probably on par with pre-Industrial Revolution Europe, food production is done locally with advanced technologies and is highly efficient, there is functionally no 'lower class' anymore, just a well-to-do general populace and an elite upper class. Laser rifles and electro-blades abound. Neither flying personal transports nor faster than light interstellar travel/communication are out of reach of the common people.
(Also because I've seen way more medieval pseudo-European settings than I have futuristic settings, and it'd sure be nice to read something different for a change.)

High Magic: Magic is a science, a set of quantum laws parallel to those of the larger physical world. It can be studied and manipulated with practice, but it has its limitations. Sympathetic action (a static spark to unleash a bolt of lightning, a robotic hand held up as if to say 'Stop' to throw up a quick magical barrier) is required for spells and enchantments to activate, leading most magical advances to be extensions of or improvements to mundane technology.

Grit-Lite: Interstellar piracy, planetary revolt, and unknown technologies at the bottom of long-lost alien military bases are real and present factors in the lives of the setting's magitech-fueled adventurers and their superhuman capabilities. With even the shiniest heroes being guilty of theft, treason, murder, and grave-robbing, the setting should lend itself quite nicely to gritty antiheroes and corrupt but well meaning governments.

[DragonOfUndeath]

Can I change my Vote?
Futuristic with High Magic
instead of Renaissance and Very High Magic

Changed Vote

[AgentPaper]

Can I change my Vote?
Futuristic with High Magic
instead of Renaissance and Very High Magic

"If you change your vote note it in a new post and edit the vote out of your previous post."

[Tvtyrant]

Tech: Bronze Age
Magic: High
Realism: Lovecraftian

I think a world where people survive in ritual fear of world-ending gods would be awesome. Think Greek legends with parents killing their children to stave off the wrath of inhuman divinity.

[DragonOfUndeath]

New Vote:
Futuristic
High-Magic
Grite-Lite