Metal Thread V - Defenders of the Faith

[Whoracle]

Ah, good ol' Nargaroth. I nearly died when I saw them live once. Almost choked on my drink while laughing. They're more ridiculus than Mayhem with maniac at Wacken...

[Killer Angel]

Ah, good ol' Nargaroth. I nearly died when I saw them live once. Almost choked on my drink while laughing. They're more ridiculus than Mayhem with maniac at Wacken...

To "win" over Mayhem live's ridiculousness is an impressive performance from Kanwulf, I must say.

[Whoracle]

To "win" over Mayhem live's ridiculousness is an impressive performance from Kanwulf, I must say.

Well, it wasn't so much his performance, more the overall vibe they're giving.
Mayhem, and foremost Maniac, came off as absolute wimps and posers (to paraphrase ManOwaR).

[grimbold]

new hammerfall album tomorrow!
head explodes

[Faulty]

If any of ya'll dig Ildjarn, you should check out Bone Awl. Four of their songs are in my latest blog post.

[toasty]

Well at least you know what you are getting, I often been so disapointed with opening acts.

On one hand you are right. When I saw BLS 2Cent opened and they were the biggest group of posers I've ever seen. Frontman was a tool. Then again, when I saw Epica Blackguard opened for them and they were nearly the greatest band of the night (eclipsed only by Epica being well... Epica).

When I saw Symphony X the opening acts were better than Symphony X by a decent degree. No offense to Symphony X but I don't think really technical music combines very well with really loud music in a live setting. Its kinda depressing to see a vocalist move his lips and hear no sound, doubly so when you don't know what the keyboardist is ever doing cuz you only heard him during the ballad and you can only heard like less than half the notes during a guitar solo. Powerglove and Blackguard, however, were amazing. I didn't realize how pumped I was for Blackguard till I was headbanging relentlessly. And powerglove was just hilariously awesome (I SANG THE POKEMON SONG AT A METAL SHOW).

Opening acts are hit and miss. But then again, sometimes so are the headliners. Times of Grace was kinda underwhelming live.

The thing is, I suppose, 2 hours of Amon Amarth? They're cool and they're awesome, but I'm very nervous going to a show that's just one band, and a band that I think doesn't have a lot of variation in their sound.

On the other hand, there's plenty of music that relies very heavily on lyrics. I don't think there's any excuse for lazy lyrics-writing, but I don't think there's much of an excuse for being lazy when it comes to music in general...

Really? Lemme the music I listen too:
EDM... nope
Dance Pop (Kesha, etc) ... meh stupid lyrics no one cares about.
Metal ... not really
Punk Rock/various forms of rock . . . may?

I'm thinking that lyrics aren't that important in most music. In fact, given how little I value lyrics (unless the lyrcist happens to be actually good) I wish more bands would just be instrumental bands. Buckethead, Powerglove, and EDM has proved to me that you don't really need lyrics to be good music.

[shiram]

The thing is, I suppose, 2 hours of Amon Amarth? They're cool and they're awesome, but I'm very nervous going to a show that's just one band, and a band that I think doesn't have a lot of variation in their sound.

True enough that Amon Amarth doe not vary their sound all that much, but I like that sound, so it's not an issue for me. They'll do the new album, a bunch of classics, and apparently a few surprises which I think will be covers.
Opening acts are hit and miss, and when spending my hard earned money, I'd rather get more of what I know I like.

[Borgh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggyC0...layer_embedded

new alestorm video, I like the song but the video feels rather generic.

[toasty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggyC0...layer_embedded

new alestorm video, I like the song but the video feels rather generic.

Video is kinda meh, but the song is really good.

[Faulty]

Metal ... not really
Punk Rock/various forms of rock . . . may?

I'm thinking that lyrics aren't that important in most music. In fact, given how little I value lyrics (unless the lyrcist happens to be actually good) I wish more bands would just be instrumental bands. Buckethead, Powerglove, and EDM has proved to me that you don't really need lyrics to be good music.

Good lyrics augment the potential for expressiveness in music, so I don't think they should be ignored. They're a part of the music, and as such they matter on some level. Also, Punk Rock is totally lyrically driven as far as Rock genres go because of how political it often is.

[shiram]

Lyrics, they matter, but they are not the meat and potatoes of what I like in music.
Basically if the sounds fit well with the song, thats great, and if it's got some catchy singalong vibe, you know when that killer part comes and you just can't help but sing along? Well that's pretty cool.

Instrumentals are cool, but on an whole album would tend to get boring I think.

Also that Alestorm song was not so bad, but it felt like most power metal bands, except for the pirates quirks they added.

[Zocelot]

When I saw Symphony X the opening acts were better than Symphony X by a decent degree. No offense to Symphony X but I don't think really technical music combines very well with really loud music in a live setting. Its kinda depressing to see a vocalist move his lips and hear no sound, doubly so when you don't know what the keyboardist is ever doing cuz you only heard him during the ballad and you can only heard like less than half the notes during a guitar solo. Powerglove and Blackguard, however, were amazing. I didn't realize how pumped I was for Blackguard till I was headbanging relentlessly. And powerglove was just hilariously awesome (I SANG THE POKEMON SONG AT A METAL SHOW).

That's basically how I felt about the show when I saw it in Toronto. I did like Symphony X though, just not as much as Blackguard. I was disappointed that Blackguard mostly played stuff off of Firefight (6 out of 8, by my count), but at least they knew which two older songs to play. I also sang the Pokemon theme song, and it was incredibly awesome. Did Powerglove throw Starbursts into the crowd at the show you saw?

Edit: 666-The Enemy Withing may be my new favorite song by Hammerfall.

[toasty]

That's basically how I felt about the show when I saw it in Toronto. I did like Symphony X though, just not as much as Blackguard. I was disappointed that Blackguard mostly played stuff off of Firefight (6 out of 8, by my count), but at least they knew which two older songs to play. I also sang the Pokemon theme song, and it was incredibly awesome. Did Powerglove throw Starbursts into the crowd at the show you saw?

Edit: 666-The Enemy Withing may be my new favorite song by Hammerfall.

Starbursts and inflatable swords.

Yeah, I wanted Blackguard to play This Rounds on Me, but they didn't, and I was sad.

[Faulty]

So I put a new post up on my blog about Klabautamann, a Black Metal band that mixes Prog and Jazz into their music. I think Nameless will probably like them.

[Zocelot]

Starbursts and inflatable swords.

Yeah, I wanted Blackguard to play This Rounds on Me, but they didn't, and I was sad.

I forgot about the inflatable weaponry. Did you manage to grab one?

At the show I saw, the songs Blackguard played from their earlier work were Allegiance and This Round's On Me. I don't know if they're playing anything from when they were known as Profugus Mortis. Some of their stuff from then was pretty good, and all their band members stuck together through the name change. Shame the keyboardist dropped out afterwards, Blackguard really needs to replace him with someone, at least for their live shows playing the older stuff.

[grimbold]

So I put a new post up on my blog about Klabautamann, a Black Metal band that mixes Prog and Jazz into their music. I think Nameless will probably like them.

the concept seems brilliant

[Moff Chumley]

Really? Lemme the music I listen too:
EDM... nope

Justice tends to have some pretty cool lyrics. DVNO, by Justice is good, Digitalism always has some evocative lyrics, and everyone signed to DFA makes an effort, at the very least, and some of them (LCD Soundsystem, The Juan Maclean) have some of the best lyrics of any genre*. EDM tends to be instrumental anyway, or just use one or two line vocal samples.

Dance Pop (Kesha, etc)

Top 40 music is not notorious for having particularly good lyrics in general, but there are plenty of exceptions. La Roux, for example. But La Roux is the best in that genre at everything anyway*.

Metal ... not really

I'll give you that one. For the most part you can't really understand the lyrics, and when you can, I generally find you wish you couldn't. I certainly wouldn't mind finding some metal bands with good lyrics.

Punk Rock/various forms of rock . . . may?

This is where I'm gonna have to call you out*. There are some simply brilliant rock and punk lyricists out there. I can't be bothered to start listing bands because it's been a long day and I'm tired, but there's a whole lot of great lyrics out there.

*: YMMV, don't take me too seriously, please.

[Faulty]

the concept seems brilliant

Tell me what you think. They're pretty awesome.

[grimbold]

Tell me what you think. They're pretty awesome.

i listened in and i think that they are pretty cool
they definitely enter my listening library

[eyeofsaulot]

That's funny; I was just listening to Klabautamann for the first time yesterday. Conclusion: gonna need more listens.

[Nomrom]

My music has to have lyrics. They can be stupid or cheesy or whatever, but if I don't have something to sing along with I get bored. That's why I still can't get into a lot of death metal. I've found some bands that are really good, but I don't understand what they're saying. Sometimes, I'll look up and memorize the lyrics, and then I'll just sing along to my own melody while the vocalist is growling.

Also, I'd never heard of Powerglove before, but they're pretty awesome. The Pokemon theme song as a metal song is the coolest thing I've heard all day.

[grimbold]

My music has to have lyrics. They can be stupid or cheesy or whatever, but if I don't have something to sing along with I get bored. That's why I still can't get into a lot of death metal. I've found some bands that are really good, but I don't understand what they're saying.

don't worry about this it will come in time
i would recommend doing what i did to learn how to understand the vocals
listen to one of your favorite death metal albums (for me it was Clayman) again and again
start by trying to understand the loudest choruses and that will give you a gateway to the rest of death metal soon you will understand all of the words

[toasty]

I forgot about the inflatable weaponry. Did you manage to grab one?

At the show I saw, the songs Blackguard played from their earlier work were Allegiance and This Round's On Me. I don't know if they're playing anything from when they were known as Profugus Mortis. Some of their stuff from then was pretty good, and all their band members stuck together through the name change. Shame the keyboardist dropped out afterwards, Blackguard really needs to replace him with someone, at least for their live shows playing the older stuff.

Yeah, they need to find a new keyboardist, given how much synth they have on their latest album. I dunno what songs they played that weren't from their old albums, but they didn't play This Rounds on Me (I would know cuz they played it when they toured with Epica). Still, I thought it was a good setlist.

I did not grab an inflatable sword, I was kinda in the wrong spot up front to grab one. However, during Symphony X's concert someone threw one upstate and the vocalist did some shadow fencing, that was pretty fun.

but if I don't have something to sing along with I get bored.

What? Sorry I was too busy headbanging to hear anything anyone said. No, seriously, I understand this mindset, but the fact of the matter is that most of the time I can't hear the vocalist live, whether or not he's screaming/growling or singing clean. Furthermore, while lots of music is sing-a-long music some of it is just headbanging/mosh music. That's just how metal rolls.

There are some simply brilliant rock and punk lyricists out there. I can't be bothered to start listing bands because it's been a long day and I'm tired, but there's a whole lot of great lyrics out there.

To follow up this and what Faulty said: I will give you the Political Message, that was something I didn't think about. I guess, seeing as I'm not really someone who aligns himself politically with the Punk Rock Message I don't really find that so important.

Furthermore, under no circumstances did I say there was no such thing as a good rock and/or punk rock lyricist. I said, 90% of the time, the lyrics aren't that good. I don't think there are a lot of good song writers out there, but the ones that do exist that I am aware of I cherish. But the majority? Meh, they're not that good if you ask me. Now, I admit, I've kinda gotten to the point where I don't care so much about the lyrics, there are a few good songs out there, but meh, I'm not trying to hard to look them up. So yeah, there are good songwriters, but they are few and far between, in my experience.

[eyeofsaulot]

Also, I'd never heard of Powerglove before, but they're pretty awesome. The Pokemon theme song as a metal song is the coolest thing I've heard all day.

But does it compare to Nekrogoblikon's metal version of the Power Rangers theme song?

[Moff Chumley]

Furthermore, under no circumstances did I say there was no such thing as a good rock and/or punk rock lyricist. I said, 90% of the time, the lyrics aren't that good. I don't think there are a lot of good song writers out there, but the ones that do exist that I am aware of I cherish. But the majority? Meh, they're not that good if you ask me. Now, I admit, I've kinda gotten to the point where I don't care so much about the lyrics, there are a few good songs out there, but meh, I'm not trying to hard to look them up. So yeah, there are good songwriters, but they are few and far between, in my experience.

So, Sturgeon's Law, then? On the other hand, I'd like to think a lot of the rock I listen to has some pretty great lyrics. Giving the ol' iTunes a quick scroll...

Spoiler

Show

Arctic Monkeys have terrific lyrics.
At the Drive-in can be obtuse but they have some moments of genius.
Boris... is in Japanese. >.>
Fleet Foxes have rather abstract lyrics, but they paint some very cool pictures.
Fu Manchu's lyrics are stupid.
Grizzly Bear, you can't understand a word their saying, so no comment.
Iron and Wine generally has some very good lyrics.
Queens of the Stone Age... YMMV, but they have their moments.
Radiohead's lyrics are cool, very evocative.

...et cetera. The point is, I dunno what kind of rock and punk you're listening to, but in my experience, a whole lot more than 10% of it has good lyrics.

[Nomrom]

don't worry about this it will come in time
i would recommend doing what i did to learn how to understand the vocals
listen to one of your favorite death metal albums (for me it was Clayman) again and again
start by trying to understand the loudest choruses and that will give you a gateway to the rest of death metal soon you will understand all of the words

I've been kind of doing this. I can understand the vocalists for the few bands I listen to that uses growling, but I still prefer clean singing.

What? Sorry I was too busy headbanging to hear anything anyone said. No, seriously, I understand this mindset, but the fact of the matter is that most of the time I can't hear the vocalist live, whether or not he's screaming/growling or singing clean. Furthermore, while lots of music is sing-a-long music some of it is just headbanging/mosh music. That's just how metal rolls.

I guess that's why there's so much music in this world. We can all find something we like.

But does it compare to Nekrogoblikon's metal version of the Power Rangers theme song?

This song is also pretty awesome. And after listening to some more of their stuff, I've been impressed by just how deep their lyrics are on songs like Goblins are Better than Trolls.

[Deadly]

New in the thread, but figured it was about time I reared my hairy head in here.

Also I noticed the topic of lyrics. I can't possibly stay out of THAT discussion.

I've always thought lyrics were important. Purely instrumental pieces are all fine and good, but I tend to get bored with them quickly. Sometimes I love to have the lyrics in front of me so I can follow along word for word, and enjoy every little nuance of those words. It's not always the same to just listen to the words, sometimes I have to read them and hear them together to fully appreciate them. Maybe I'm just freaky.

I've been a fan of Cradle of Filth for 15 years or so, since I was a silly kid who just wanted to find the most extreme noise I possibly could to blast out the ear drums of everyone around me. And I don't think there are many bands who use quite as many lyrics as CoF (sometimes I suspect Dani is quite full of himself and couldn't have 10 seconds without hearing his own voice on a non-instrumental piece ). CoF helped me learn English, possibly more so than school, I swear I read those lyrics like I was obsessed (I was!). Sadly their later albums have been a little less lyrically exquisite.

Please do tell me I'm wrong and point me to all the awesome lyrical masters of metal I'm currently missing. I've been hoping to find a band with lyrics like CoF's for a long time. Doesn't have to be the same style or genre, I like just about everything. I'm sure something must exist, because I'm woefully limited in my current listening and I can't remember half the stuff I listened to as a kid - oh how I wish I could, there was some awesome stuff in there IIRC.

And I digress... lyrics, yes. It isn't always the words, but more the voice, however. Case in point, Chthonic; I have no idea what half their songs are about and not because of the growling (I can usually work that out after a while, if I care to), but because they often sing in languages I don't understand, like Taiwanese. But that doesn't matter, the voices alone can be enough to send shivers down my spine, even if it could all be gibberish for all I know. Maybe it's because I can make guesses about what they're singing about - the meaning and intention gets across even if the words make no sense to me (though maybe the meaning I get from it isn't the intended one, who knows).

And then there's stuff like Ensiferum, who really seem to know how to evoke that feeling of ancient glory and battle. Man I love to sing along to their stuff, makes you feel all mighty. It wouldn't be the same without the lyrics, not even close.

I could keep going, listing examples. I better stop.

I've always been a sucker for good voices. And lyrics. I love things that leave me in awe, that make me want to scream along, that make me shiver or cry with glee. I really don't think purely instrumental pieces are quite as good at evoking these kinds of reactions and feelings, at least in me. Heck, I almost think it'd be cool to have something be just voice, no instruments. Then again....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggyC0...layer_embedded

new alestorm video, I like the song but the video feels rather generic.

Nice one. I only discovered Alestorm recently myself. Their videos do seem to be a little silly in general, though. Doesn't detract from the music, of course.

[Faulty]

Any thoughts on this? It's pretty wild. I'm having trouble absorbing it but I feel like it may be worth checking out.

[ex cathedra]

I've always been a sucker for good voices. And lyrics. I love things that leave me in awe, that make me want to scream along, that make me shiver or cry with glee. I really don't think purely instrumental pieces are quite as good at evoking these kinds of reactions and feelings, at least in me. Heck, I almost think it'd be cool to have something be just voice, no instruments. Then again....

I consider vocals just to be another instrument; good music doesn't necessarily have to contain guitars, or percussion, or even vocals. I find that music that lacks vocals can be just as emotionally evocative, assuming that it's made well.

I never understood why people "got bored" when listening to music that didn't have lyrics. I mean, why? As long as the music is interesting, why does it have to include vocals?

There's tons of worthwhile music that I think those sorts of people overlook. I dunno, maybe it has something to do with a lack of patience. I'm used to slow, prodding, deliberate music, that's quite unlike most modern popular music, metal included. Many of my favorite songs are entirely instrumental, so to speak.

I'll just leave a few songs here, and many of them won't be very relevant to the Metal thread, but if you (that is, anyone with a predisposition to dislike vocal-less music) would care to take the time to listen to some of them (I doubt that anyone will listen to all of them; many of them are quite long) I'd appreciate your feedback.

Agalloch's A Celebration for the Death of Man... (2:25) : Neofolk
Agalloch's Pantheist (Has vocals, but not lyrics.) (6:30) : Neofolk, Ambient
Crippled Black Phoenix's I Am Free, Today I Perished (6:00) : Post-Rock, Ambient
Godspeed You! Black Emperor's East Hastings (8:12) : Post-Rock
High On Fire's Sons of Thunder (10:58) : Sludge, Stoner Metal
Mogwai's Batcat (5:23) : Post-Rock
Mogwai's Glasgow Mega-Snake (3:47) : Post-Rock (the video's kind of lame, but what can you do?)
Mono & World's End Girlfriend's Trailer Three (14:54) : Post-Rock, Neoclassical, Ambient
Russian Circle's Death Rides A Horse (5:48) : Post-Metal (like the third time I've linked this song here. Sorry.)
Russian Circle's Geneva (5:53) : Post-Metal
Steven Wilson's No Twilight Within the Courts of the Sun (8:38) : Progressive Rock Okay, so I totally forgot that this song even had vocals. I really enjoy the song's composition, but the minor vocal parts are totally irrelevant and unnecessary.

And that's without going into genres of music that are commonly regarded as being high-art.

[Marillion]

On lyrics, and getting bored without them:

Julie Christmas, in a recent interview, said

Well, I can’t get into bands that stare at their shoes and expect the world to love them. The job of the singer in a band is to take everything in the music and give it a voice – to translate music to the audience.

However, the only lyrics that she actually sat down and wrote for The Bad Wife were Secrets All Men Keep; the lyrics for the other songs were essentially scribbled together right before she went into the studio. And she didn't hold fast to those, or to the lyrics for her other projects Made Out Of Babies and Battle Of Mice, which can make looking lyrics up for them a pain. And yet, her voice and her lyrics are the best things about her music. Those more than anything are what draws the listener in.

Another point is that people love to imitate what they enjoy, and while not everyone can play an instrument well enough to please themselves, they can certainly sing along; everyone loves the sound of their own voice.

Deadly: I'm gonna recommend some songs and bands that I feel have great lyrics. Ok? Ok.

First: Iced Earth, Hold At All Costs. This song is about the second day of the battle of Gettysburg, specifically the events at Little Round Top. While Devil To Pay (Day 1) and High Water Mark (Day 3) are also fantastic songs, I feel the lyrics of Hold At All Costs beautifully capture the desperation of the situation, particularly the introduction, and Tim Owen's voice fits perfectly.

Saviour Machine, The Invasion of Israel and Balance of Power. Their songs are ripped right from the Book of Revelations, and Eric Clayton's powerful voice delivers the biblical metaphors brilliantly, sometimes menacingly. Especially brilliant is the second of Balance Of Power.

Spoiler

Show

I will send the world to war
I will go out with great fury
To destroy all who reject my claim
And the chaos will reign
And nation will rise against nation
And kingdoms shall burn in flames
And every man's sword will slay

I will drench the world in blood
And the earth will shake in every place
And the world will seek my face
I will usher in the time of terror and alter
The balance of power for all time condemned
At the time of the end
The king of the South will attack
And the king of the North will come
With his armies cursed to fall

I will annihilate them all
And their flesh be consumed from their bones
And their eyes be dissolved in their heads
And the tongues from the mouths of the dead
Will scream in silent horror of defeat
As they stand on their feet
All the world will weep

Let them come up; proclaim to the nations:
"Prepare for war, and the horrors of hell that shall follow its son"

All the power of the devil has come

I almost feel as though Ayreon should be disqualified, as by definition concept albums need to (try to) have meaningful lyrics, but give Trauma a listen. Eric Clayton again, singing as Reason as he tries to convince a man in a coma that life IS worth living, opposed by Fear (Mikael Akerfeldt) and Agony (Devon Graves).

And finally (for now) Doesn't Matter Anyway by Savatage. This song is sung from the point of view of arms dealers capitalizing on war and suffering. Also worth a listen from that album are Starlight, which is about dropping bombs on people, and I Am, about the greed and jealousy that begins wars.

If you like these songs lyrics, look up the rest of their work, and I'll always be happy to give recommendations.

aethernox: Are you a fan of Laura then?