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2012-08-23, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
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- Cambridge, UK
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Not sure I will get to your class today (I'm actually DMing tonight), but I'm almost there!
Originally Posted by Tavar
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-23, 06:12 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
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- Aug 2012
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- Spain, it's sunny
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
I would really love some playtesting, if you are ok with it, githzerai could have trapped the souls from heroes of the past in the limbo and be using them as tools for power. Originally Posted by Zaydos
Anointed heritors should be balanced around those levels, pick any hero you like, but if you need something to take hits a Battlelord based anointed heritor is probably the best option atm since he refuses to die and gains temporal hit points when attacking.
If you need help with building something or have any suggestion let me know
Working on: Anointed Heritor PEACHes are welcome.
Playing with: Firia & Cadaver
Awesome avatar by Strawberries
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2012-08-23, 06:28 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
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- Jun 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
The Persona could use some playtesting as well, if the class would be interesting to you. She can fill in any role except a full caster.
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2012-08-23, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
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- Jul 2006
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- Cambridge, UK
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Right so time for another PEACH... whats up next...
The Persona
Sounds interesting lets take a look.
Title Image and initial fluff...
SpoilerSpoiler
[/CENTER]
"I gather you've heard of the tale of the good ol' Dr. Jekyll and big bad Mr. Hyde? What they never told you about was the story of the few others that shared that body with the two of 'em." - an old storyteller.
Personas are essentially the Jack of all trades type of class, able to adjust to what is needed for the task at hand, mostly through mundane means, though they do exhibit supernatural abilities, and through one of their multitudes of personalities, are able to exhibit arcane magic or psionic powers. And though they are good at dabbling with everything, they also excel at focusing their talents into one particular aspect.
I love the image, its very cool indeed (though a re-size would probably be good). The introduction also gives us a good idea of what to expect.
Lets move on...
Pre game rule information stuff...
Spoiler
Adventures: Life on the road is almost a given for the Persona, whose life is a but a long series of being rejected, for who they are or what they are capable of. They find comfort in anonymity, and thus travel from place to place. Due to harsh circumstances that they have been through, most try to seek approval from others by trying to achieve great deeds, while others just try to show their superiority over others who have placed them as outcasts and lowlifes.
Characteristics: Personas are capable of filling almost any role in a party. They could very well live up to being the Jack of all Trades of the group, though through choosing the right abilities, they could pretty much excel at one role.
Alignment: Alignments can be as varied between Personas as there are Personas. And even in an individual Persona, some of her other personalities may exhibit a different belief systems from her, and could lean to a different alignment. However, being a Persona means having the will to control the multitude of voices in her head, that means reigning in their actions to the direction she would generally go for.
Religion: Different Personas worship different gods or goddesses, depending on what leanings they have, most probably worshiping the deity who exhibits the ideals that they strive for the most, or those they could see as someone who would understand their situation the most.
Background: Personas tend to come from turbulent and traumatic childhood, such that they develop coping mechanisms to protect themselves. These coping mechanisms may involve creating an outer shell, a persona, that comes out and takes all of the negative experiences and is also a means of outlet to express themselves when their true selves feel they have no power to do so.
Some Personas may develop rather later in life, and not through traumatic experiences. Some actors and players, for example, delve too deep in their subconscious to try to emulate roles that they are playing, and sometimes go beyond the boundary and create a different "self" entirely.
Races: Most intelligent beings can become Personas, most notably humans and their complex social interactions. Having multiple personalities does not equate to being a Persona; it is having enough willpower to reign in these different personalities to use to your advantage. Thus, races with high Wisdom scores tend to produce good Personas.
Other Classes: Most classes tend to be wary of Personas, as they can drastically change their personalities in an instant, and may seem them as unstable and dangerous, but once they are able to go through that prejudice, they could find worthy allies in the Persona.
Role: The Persona can be anybody, and thus she can do any role in the party. Thrown into an existing party, she can tailor her abilities to fit what is most needed of her or what is lacking in the group. Her primary weakness would be at being a primary spell caster, as the class does not focus too much on spells, though she could do a decent job of being a secondary spell caster.
Adaptation: Since Personas are mostly a mundane class, there are not too many things needed to change to adapt it to any campaign setting, though some of their abilities might be flavored differently or removed entirely to fit some settings that do not involve magic or psionics.
I like it, your kind of making something quite similar and yet also very different thematically from my dimensional conduit.
I always enjoy reading through the adaptation sections and was a bit disappointed by the lack of anything here really, but to be honest i understand why you have drawn a blank... this is ultimately little reason to adapt them at the moment.
I suppose you could re-theme it so they were the victems of multiple spirits being infused within them or some kind of magnet for ghosts who want to possess their body for a while (kinda like Whoopi Goldberg's character from ghost. lol).
Anyway, apart from my random thoughts its all very solid and has a nice flavor to it.
Game rule information...
Spoiler
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Personas have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Willpower is the most important attribute for a Persona, thus Wisdom is the key ability score for her. Constitution helps to mitigate low Fortitude saves and an average hit die. The third ability score would depend on what role you want to focus in the most.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Starting Age: As bard.
Starting Gold: As bard.
Class Skills
The Persona's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Psionic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier
Great range of skills, solid hit dice and good number of skill points. My first thought was maybe to allow them to pick X skills to make class skills at first level as they can pretty much do anything.
Class Table...
Spoiler
The Persona
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Personae, Jack of all Trades
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Multiple Personalities, Split Personalities (1 effect)
3rd|+2|+1|+1|+3|Jack of all Trades
4th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Hypnotic Induction
5th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Jack of all Trades
6th|+4|+2|+2|+5|Hypnosis (suggestion)
7th|+5|+2|+2|+5|Jack of all Trades
8th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+6|Overdrive
9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+6|Jack of all Trades
10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+7|Hypnosis (modify memory), One Mind
11th|+8/+3|+3|+3|+7|Jack of all Trades
12th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Split Personalities (2 effects)
13th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Jack of all Trades
14th|+10/+5|+4|+4|+9|Hypnosis (psychic reformation)
15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+9|Jack of all Trades
16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Hyper Overdrive
17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Jack of all Trades
18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|Hypnosis (dominate monster)
19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Jack of all Trades
20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|One Mask[/table]
No dead levels and well paced out... first impression: looks good.
Class features...
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
Spoiler
The Persona is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Personas are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Bardish types then. Seems solid enough.
Personae (Ex):
Spoiler
The defining ability of the Persona is to switch personalities as easily as switching masks. Personas have experienced multitude of different circumstances both negative and positive to draw on, and an equally numerous personae may be formed, however they generally fall into six distinct archetypes, as detailed below. Each archetype is associated with an ability score, and whenever the Persona switches from one archetype to the other, she switches her Wisdom score with the ability score associated to that archetype. In the case of the Sage archetype, she instead gains a +2 bonus to her Wisdom score. In addition, all skills that have their key ability score the same as the associated ability score of the archetype they are in are treated as trained even without any ranks in them as long as the archetype is in effect.
At 1st level, the Persona can switch freely into any 3 archetype as a standard action for a number of times equal to his original Wisdom modifier per day. This can be any 3 of the 6 archetype per day; once she has switched through 3 archetypes, she can no longer switch to another archetype except between the 3. She can choose different archetypes each day, and this is determined only as soon as she switches into them. At 6th level, she can switch between 4 archetypes, 5 archetypes at 11th, and all archetypes at 16th level. The Persona can stay in an archetype for a number of hours equal to her class level for each instance she switches into a particular archetype. Switching back to normal state (no archetype) does not count as one use of this ability, but shares the same type of action required to shift into an archetype.
Each personality is a different entity on its own such that the Persona cannot remember anything that transpires around her during the time she is in a persona other than her normal self.
The Warrior – The Warrior archetype encompasses all the personae stemming from aggression, rage, anger, ferocity, and hatred. The Warrior is associated with the Strength ability score.
The Trickster – The Trickster defines all personae that exhibit playfulness, deftness, whimsicality, chaos, and adaptability. The Trickster is associated with the Dexterity ability score.
The Braveheart – The Braveheart archetype includes all personae that deal with fortitude, courage, honor, resilience, and the desire to protect. The Braveheart is associated with the Constitution ability score.
The Scholar – The Scholar archetype represents personae that reflect learning, thirst for new knowledge, curiosity, order, and dedication. The Scholar is associated with the Intelligence ability score.
The Sage – The Sage is the embodiment of all personae exhibiting unbending will, steadfast determination, clarity, perseverance, and enlightenment. The Sage is associated with the Wisdom ability score.
The Leader – The Leader archetype deals with all personae showing confidence, decisiveness, tact, cunning, and eloquence. The Leader is associated with the Charisma ability score.
I like it. Its a simple way of achieving a good amount of flexibility. I also love the fact you gave flavor for what each archetype represents.
Jack of all Trades (Ex):
Spoiler
Along with her different personalities, the Persona gains different abilities that stem from the unconscious retention of skills and abilities of each of the personae within her. At 1st level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the Persona learns one ability from the following list. Some of these abilities can be used by the Persona whether in normal state or switched into an archetype, while other abilities can only be used when switched to a particular archetype. Some abilities have synergies with particular archetypes, making them more potent when used while switched to that archetype, and some have more powerful versions called Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives which can be unlocked at higher levels.
Getting the benefits of synergy effects is not considered as one use of Jack of all Trades ability. However, Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives are equivalent to learning one additional ability. To be able to use the Hyper Overdrive of the Sneak Attack ability, for example, requires a level 18 Persona and 3 investments of the Jack of all Trades ability; one for the Sneak Attack ability, one for the Overdrive, and one for the Hyper Overdrive. They must also be taken in order, i.e. you cannot take a Hyper Overdrive option without taking the requisite Overdrive option, and you cannot take an Overdrive option without taking the requisite ability.
Jack of all Trades abilities are affected by the psychic reformation power or similar effects, and you can allocate a new set of abilities afterwards.
Not sure i like the terms "Overdrives" and "Hyper Overdrives" sounds like i'm driving a deathrace 2000 car.
Never the less, i like the abilities and the concepts behind them. I also like the way in which some have synergies with other aspects of the class. I think this does kind of make you feel obliged to build your character in a number of ways however, it would be nice if you created a way to benifit from a synergy without meeting its prerequisites (perhaps a feat which bonds the two aspects together as though they has a synergy?).
Anyway, looks good to me.
Multiple Personalities (Ex):
Spoiler
At 2nd level, the Persona's different personae continue to grow. Each of the gain their own meaning of "self"; each persona may call itself by a different name, have its own beliefs, identity, and personality distinct from the others. They also develop abilities distinct for each of them according to their personalities, as follows:
The Warrior - she becomes proficient with martial weapons, as well as one melee exotic and one ranged weapon of her choice. This choice must be made upon acquiring this ability, and cannot be changed.
The Trickster - she uses the good Reflex saves progression.
The Braveheart - she uses the good Fortitude saves progression.
The Scholar - she gains an insight bonus to all Intelligence-based skill checks equal to one-fourth her Persona class level (minimum 1).
The Sage - she gains an insight bonus to all Wisdom-based skill checks equal to one-fourth her Persona class level (minimum 1).
The Leader - she she gains an insight bonus to all Charisma-based skill checks equal to one-fourth her Persona class level (minimum 1).
These abilities are active as long as the Persona is switched to the particular archetype they are attributed to.
Seems pretty cool, I like the way this lets you switch up your character. I supose in game you would probably want to take some time to write yourself a character sheet for each Persona to help speed things up.
Split Personalities (Ex):
Spoiler
Starting at 2nd level, whenever the Persona switches from one archetype to another, she can choose to ignore 1 mind-affecting effect currently active on her, for as long as she is in an archetype different from the archetype (or normal state) she was in when she suffered that effect. At 12th level, she can ignore 2 mind-affecting effects at a time.
Can her ability to switch personas be supressed by a mind effecting ability. So for example could she be instructed to maintain her current persona for the duration of the spell/effect/whatever? Are her personas individually sentient? i.e can they react even when another is turned to act against them.
Also if you were ordered to, for example, “attack an ally” would choosing to switch personal be in keeping with that effect if your current persona could indeed launch such an attack? Basically I guess I’m wondering who exactly is being controlled here and if therefore other personas have the ability to overthrow a mind affected persona without that persona choosing to allow them to do so?
Hypnotic Induction (Ex):
Spoiler
At 4th level, the Persona learns to use hypnosis as a means to facilitate quicker switching from one archetype to another. Each day, she can spend a few minutes to undergo the process of hypnotic induction. The Persona has to roll an Autohypnosis check with a DC of 15. If she succeeds, for the rest of the day, she can utter a few keywords to make her switching into archetypes faster, making it as a move action instead of a standard action. If she fails, she can still switch as a move action, but due to errors in the process, she also becomes susceptible to suggestions from outside sources, receiving a -2 penalty to Will saves against mind affecting effects. At 14th level, the Persona takes only a swift action to switch archetypes.
The Persona can also initiate hypnotic induction on any one target she can see, and the target must be able to see and hear the Persona for this to work. As a standard action, the Persona makes a Autohypnosis roll. If the target fails a Will save with the DC equal to the Autohypnosis roll, the target suffers a -2 penalty to AC and Will saves for a number of rounds equal to the Persona’s class level. If a target succeeds on its saving throw against this ability, it is immune to this effect for 24 hours.
At 14th blank, the action required to do this ability is reduced to a move action.
While thematic on paper, I’m not so sure if this will really be played out in such a way in practice. More likely the character will simply roll a dice at the start of the day and simply suck up the penalty if it comes there way. Plus any such character would surely eliminate any chance of failure asap.
Actions are the most valuable resource in dnd so it would be folly not to attempt a process which allows you to get more bang for your buck if possible. Of course if this is what your expecting then don’t worry about it, I just thought I would make you aware of it.
Anyway, its a very nice ability. I like it.
The second part of the ability is also cool, but keep in mind that there are many ways to make skill checks far outstrip will saves, so a savvy character will make it extremely difficult for them to not overcome their victims save.
Hypnosis (Ex):
Spoiler
At 6th level, the Persona begins to learn different hypnosis techniques. Whenever an enemy is under hypnotic induction, as a move action, she can utter a few key words to make the target obey her commands. The target behaves similar to being under a suggestion spell, but the duration uses the remaining duration of the Hypnotic Induction ability.
At 10th level, the Persona can use this ability to modify her target's memory, as if the target is affected by the modify memory spell. At 14th level, she can use this ability to reformat the target's psyche, as the psychic reformation power. She and the target must pay the XP cost as normal. At 18th level, she can control her target similar to a dominate monster spell, with the duration using the remaining duration of the Hypnotic Induction ability.
The target gains a Will save for all of these effects, with the DC equal to 10 + 1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier.
At 14th level, the Persona can use this ability as a swift action.
Its very cool that hypnotic induction scales. I like the way you have implemented this.
Is a subject aware at any point that they have been the victim of hypnotic induction? I'm amusing not if you succeed? but would they be aware if you failed?
Maybe the target should get a save at the start of each round and again i worry that a skill vs save check has only 1 winner.
Overdrive (Ex):
Spoiler
At 8th level, the Persona can channel the very essence of her persona to achieve a heightened level of synergy with a particular ability. The Persona can now use the Overdrive option for certain Jack of all Trades abilities. She must be switched into the archetype that has synergy with the particular Jack of all Trades ability. Using this ability pushes the particular persona over her limit of concentration, sending her back into the Persona's subconscious and immediately reverts her into her normal state at the end of the ability.
Hate the name of this ability. Mechanically it works well though.
One Mind (Ex):
Spoiler
At 10th level, the Persona’s various personae gain awareness of each other’s existence, breaking the boundaries between them. She no longer forgets any events that happen when switching to other personas. In addition, she can gain the benefit of the Multiple Personalities ability of any one archetype she is not currently switched into for a number of times equal to half her Persona class levels per day. Each use lasts for a number of rounds equal to her original Wisdom modifier.
I hadn't noticed before that the other personas are not aware of each other and forget.
To be honest, while I love the theme I think the reality of acting like you have forgotten everything which has happened will get extremely repetitive and may prove very clunky and frustrating - especially in combat.
If a persona is not aware they are in a battle and then "bang!" all of a sudden they are... would they not be flat footed?
Roleplaying this may become quite tedious for everyone involved as they have to sit there and explain everything to the new persona for the umpteenth time. Sure the first few times it may be fun, quirky and interesting but I can see it being fraught with problems from a role playing perspective. Personal opinion only of course.
Hyper Overdrive (Ex):
Spoiler
By 16th level, the Persona unlocks the highest potentials of her abilities. She can now use the Hyper Overdrive options for certain Jack of all Trades abilities. As with the Overdrive ability, the Persona must be switched into the archetype that has synergy with the particular Jack of all Trades ability. This is more taxing than the Overdrive ability in that aside from the Persona immediately reverting into her normal state at the end of the ability, she cannot switch into any persona for 1d4 rounds.
Again I really dislike the name of this ability. However, mechanically its very sound. I like it.
One Mask (Ex):
Spoiler
At 20th level, the Persona has full control over his different personalities, being one of them and at the same time being all of them, and she is able to be who she wants to be on a whim. She can now switch into different archetypes as a free action once per round even without having to rely on hypnosis. She also gains immunity to all mind-affecting effects.
In addition, whenever she is switched into an archetype, she gains the benefit of another archetype as if she is switched into that archetype as well, gaining the Multiple Personalities ability of that archetype as well as being able to synergize with and use Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives of Jack of all Trades abilities linked to that archetype. She does not, however, gain the bonus of the Personae ability for that second archetype. This second archetype is chosen every time the Persona switches into an archetype.
A good capstone, nice and themeatic and some solid power. I very much like this!
Summary
I really like this class, its one of my favourites so far actually. Though, for me, a few issues and quirks keep me from fully "loving it". Also a horrid choice of name for two of the classes abilities makes me a sad panda.
Still apart from those minor gripes I think you are onto a winner here. I would certainly like to see how this one performs in the field and may well adapt one into an npc whom I'm running in my current campaign. I think it can be re-themed to represent someone with an insane genius and split personality disorder very well indeed.
All in all this is a dark horse class in the contest in my eyes. Work at it a bit more and you may well go all the way.
p.s: sorry it took so long to write this one up by the way. I've had a busy few days.Last edited by kanachi; 2012-08-24 at 08:55 AM.
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-23, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Spain, it's sunny
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Loads of thingies added to the anointed heritors I start to fear to run out of space
Working on: Anointed Heritor PEACHes are welcome.
Playing with: Firia & Cadaver
Awesome avatar by Strawberries
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2012-08-23, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
- Join Date
- May 2012
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- In the Playground. Duh.
- Gender
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
New Avvy, GI?
White is my color for internal monologue. (without the black highlight, of course)
Judge's choice in the Pathfinder Grab Bag XIX
Spoiler
Avatar by the ever-brilliant Ceika
Paizocarnum - A 3.p update of Incarnum, now in PDF!
The Beastmaster: Master of Beasts! (Pathfinder homebrew class)
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2012-08-23, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)Firbolg in the Playground
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- Nov 2008
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- Minnesota
- Gender
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
He switched to a kobold a week or two ago. Probably searching for a favorite. Originally Posted by malonkey1
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-08-24, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
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- Spain, it's sunny
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
This one is probably going to stick though. I like the Imp
Working on: Anointed Heritor PEACHes are welcome.
Playing with: Firia & Cadaver
Awesome avatar by Strawberries
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2012-08-24, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
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- Cambridge, UK
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
I finally finished my peach of The Persona, which is well worth a look by the way.
So, whats next you might be thinking... well another peach of course!OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-24, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
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- Cambridge, UK
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
The Jack of All Blades
Surely a car jack with blades protruding from it is counter logical?
oh...
Spoiler
Spoiler
A Jack of All Blades taking his time deciding what style to crush his foes with.
"Jack of all blades, master of none,
Certainly better than a master of one."
- Attributed to [/center]
The Jack of All Blades has asked themselves the question "why specialize in a few disciplines?", and found the answers wanting. They do not seek to master any one discipline, but to master the sublime way as a whole.
Sadly while they maybe potential masters of the book of nine swords I am not... so I appologise in advance if i'm not that good at peaching your class.
I will give it my best shot however, and the image and starting fluff both seem interesting. Opening the image blows the walls clean off the forum though, so you might want to think about a re-size.
Pre game rule information stuff...
Spoiler
Adventures: To test themselves. To prove their detractors wrong. For vengeance, love, or duty. The fact that their path is one tied to violence only makes adventuring a more attractive option.
Characteristics: Jacks of All Blades are a varied lot, though it is undeniable that they are focused on combat, and melee combat most of all.
Alignment: Jacks of All Blades favor no single alignment, though many who know of them associate their skills with the more chaotic side of the spectrum, but this is due to the often more flamboyant and obvious nature of those souls. There are plenty of lawful adepts, who tend to change styles based on logical reasoning, rather than feelings.
Religion: They are more inclined to follow martial deities, but it is generally up to the adept in question to follow a god of their choosing.
Background: Jacks of All Blades are the dreamers and wanders of the martial Adepts. Often times they trained at multiple sites, learning much but never quite fitting in with other students.
Races: Any race known for either short attention spans or a desire to be well rounded have a slightly higher predilection for Jacks of All Blades. Being martially inclines is also a plus.
Other Classes: Jacks of All Blades tend to look down on those who are more focused than themselves, most often in a sort of patronizing way. Interestingly, Masters of the Nine are generally looked down upon with something like pity, as if they are missing some truth that the Jacks know. Factotums, Bards, Non-specialized wizards, and theurges of almost all sorts tend to be given more respect. Masters of one, Wizards who have given up more than 2 schools, or other such specialists tend to be looked upon with some small amount of contempt.
Role: As with most Martial Adepts, Jacks of All Blades focus on combat, generally melee combat. Their wide range of options, however, does allow them to branch out into other areas a tad, as the situation calls for it.
Adaptation: Jacks of All Blades work in essentially any setting that allows Tome of Battle and the like.
Seems pretty solid. It’s a shame to not see a slightly more ambitious adaptation entry in here, which is always one of my favourite things to read when looking at fluff, but I understand why.
Game rule information...
Spoiler
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Jack of All Blades's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: As a combatant, the physical scores are all important, though the exact priority depends on what you want the Jack to be: an archer needs higher dexterity, while the Two handed fighter needs higher strength. constitution is almost always useful, moreso if you want to be a tank.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: As Bard.
Starting Gold: As Fighter.
Class Skills
A Jacks' of All Blades class skills are Balance(Dex), Craft(Int), Concentration(con), Heal, Knowledge [Local, History](Int), Listen(Wis), Martial Lore, Spot(Wis), Tumble(Dex)
Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier
Just what i expected really. Good stuff.
Class Table...
Spoiler
JACK OF ALL BLADES
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Readied
1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Jack of All Trades(2), Master of None |3|1
2nd|+2|+0|+3|+3|Flexible Arsenal: Martial Proficiency|3|1
3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3||4|1
4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Flexible Arsenal: Martial Proficiency|4|1
5th|+5|+1|+4|+4|Flexible Training: Enchantments|5|2
6th|+6/1|+2|+5|+5|Jack of All(3), Flash of Inspiration 1/encounter|6|2
7th|+7/2|+2|+5|+5||7|2
8th|+8/3|+2|+6|+6|Quick Focus 1/Day, Flexible Arsenal: Martial Proficiency|7|2
9th|+9/4|+3|+6|+6||8|2
10th|+10/5|+3|+7|+7|Flash of Inspiration 1/encounter|8|3
11th|+11/6/1|+3|+7|+7||9|3
12th|+12/7/2|+4|+8|+8|Jack of All(4)|10|3
13th|+13/8/3|+4|+8|+8|Flexible Arsenal: Exotic Proficiency|11|3
14th|+14/9/4|+4|+9|+9|Quick Focus 2/Day|11|3
15th|+15/10/5|+5|+9|+9||12|3
16th|+16/11/6/1|+5|+10|+10||12|4
17th|+17/12/7/2|+5|+10|+10||13|4
18th|+18/13/8/3|+6|+11|+11|Quick Focus 3/Day|13|4
19th|+19/14/9/4|+6|+11|+11|Jack of All(5)|14|4
20th|+20/15/10/5|+6|+12|+15|Flash of Genuis 1/Day|15|4[/table]
Quite a few dead levels but then I suspect you know that. It’s hard to judge the class table fully as a result though. Looks promising none the less!
Class features...
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
SpoilerThey are proficient with Simple weapons and Medium Armor.
Short and to the point i guess... i like to see these entries follow the traditional format however. What about shields by the way?
Are they not proficient with light armour? only medium? Also i expected martial weapons from a class like this.
Jack Of Trades(Ex):
Spoiler
Through various sources, Jacks have learned many styles of fighting. They have access to at least all 9 of the disciplines found in Tome of Battle, and can access homebrew ones with permission(See Notes at the Bottom). However, they can only focus on so many different styles at once. At first level, they may focus on two school, at 6th 3, at 12th 4, and at 19th 5. In any school currently in focus, a Jack of All Blades is considered to know all maneuvers and stances his initiator level would qualify him for.
He may change Focuses by spending 5 minutes meditating, going over weapon forms, or similar exercises to retrieve the knowledge, though this ritual needs to be repeated for multiple disciplines if applicable. This knowledge stays with him until he lets it recede or he changes focus.
In addition, they get a bonus equal to their levels in Jack of All Blades divided by 4 on Martial Lore checks to identify maneuvers due to their extensive experience.
Having such a wide pallet from which to draw their stances and manoeuvres makes this a pretty darn powerful ability to take as a 1 level dip.
I get why you have given them such a broad tool box and as its the key class feature I guess it’s hard to pull out but maybe you should consider some kind of nerf for a character who has 2 or 3 times the class levels in another class other than this one?
Still a pretty good ability none the less, flexibility equals power after all.
Master of None (Ex):
Spoiler
Not all of the common saying is false, as much as Jacks of All Blades would like to deny it. Their far-ranging attention does impede their prowess, to a degree. As such, Jack of All Blades levels count as 3/4 of an initiator level, rounded up, rather than the normal one or 1/2.
Quarters (or 3/4 in this case) are not always the neatest thing to deal in, but i have no real problem with it.
Maneuvers and Stances(Ex):
Spoiler
Simply having the knowledge isn't enough: a Jack of All Blades must prepare himself for the exertions. A minute of concentration allows him to select which maneuvers he considers readied, up to a maximum shown on the chart above. He is not able to freely pick these without restriction, though, due to his inexpert grasp of the techniques. He may have at most 1 of his highest level maneuvers his initiator level qualifies him for, 2 of the second highest level, and 3 of his third highest, with the rest being unlimited, and there is never a limit to the number of level 1 maneuvers he may know excepting his normal maximum. At level XXX these values increase by 1 (2 of highest, 3 of next highest, 4 of next), and again at level xxx. As discussed below, Stances count as maneuvers for these numbers.
The Jack of All Blades has 2 methods of regaining maneuvers in combat. First of all, if he has no maneuvers readied or has just expended his last readied maneuver, then he may spend a swift action, and replenish all of his maneuvers. Alternatively, he may take a Standard Action at any point in time, and replenish a number of his maneuvers at the start of his next turn equal to the highest maneuver level known.
In addition, while most Martial adepts can freely switch between Stances they know, Jacks are not so fortunate, though they make up for this in sheer versatility: they may have a number of stances readied at a time equal to the chart above, all from disciplines currently in focus. He may switch between any of these as normal for a martial adept. Stances are readied or changed along with maneuvers, and count for maneuvers for the purpose of the number of a given level of maneuvers that you can ready.
When Changing focused Disciplines, readied maneuvers do not change, but any maneuver from a school he no longer knows is lost, as the knowledge of it's workings recedes from his mind. He may change his maneuvers readied at any time by spending a minute.
The restrictions here are good and fit the theme well. I still say this is a great class to have a 1 level dip in though, especially if you’re not a martial adept.
There is nothing wrong with this as such, I personally don’t scoff at 1 level dips as long as they fit the theme of the character a player is building.
Flexible Training:
Spoiler
During his varied studies, a Jack of All Blades internalizes not just the specific techniques involved, but the weapon play associated with the styles, leading to his flexible arsenal ability. This manifests in the following ways:
Flexible Martial Proficiency(Ex): The Jack of All Blades can chose one martial weapon that is a preferred weapon of any one of the school and be treated as if he is proficient with said weapon. He first gains this ability at Level 2, and gains an additional choice at 4th and 8th Level. These are chosen at the same time as choosing disciplines, and can only be changed if the focus discipline the weapon is tied to is changed.
Flexible Enchantments: The largest restriction on the weapons a combatant wields is not the proficiency, but the magical nature of the weapons: a normal sword against a Dragon or Demon is of limited use, and using one in a fight against a highly magical blade can easily end in disaster. At 5th level, the Jack of all Blades begins to find a method past this restriction. By focusing on a weapon they own(in this case, meaning one that either they have legally purchased or one that has been in their possession for over 24 hours), they are able to draw it's enhancements forward, allowing them to apply them to any weapon they are proficient in, with the following restrictions:
The original weapon has it's magic properties surpressed while this effect is active, though it still counts as a magic item for sunder checks and the like.
The Jack of All Blades may only transfer magical properties up to the gp costs show in the chart below, as if he was purchasing the weapon with enhancements. Thus, weapons made from materials such as Cold Iron may have fewer enhanments transfered.
The Enhancements must be legal for the weapon: Vorpal cannot be applied to a Warhammer, and any weapon must first receive the minimum +1 bonus, but the weapon does not need to be masterwork.
Any weapon the Jack of Blades weilds benefits from the transfered enhancements as long as he is proficient with it. If the weapon leaves his hand, it reverts to its normal state.
If the weapon recieving the enhancements has magical properties already, they are overwritten by the new properties.
Spells with a duration less than permanent cannot be transferred: a greater magic weapon spell can only boost one weapon.
While under this effect, the weapon that receives the enhancement bonus and the weapon that gave it count as the same item for purposes of dispel magic's ability to suppress magic items, or Disjunction's ability to destroy them.
[snip!]
Though many have tried, no one has yet managed this with artifacts and legacy weapons.
Flexible Exotic Proficiency(Ex): At 13th Level, the Jack of All Blades is experienced enough to use even Exotic Weapons. Choosing such a weapon requires him to forgo 2 Marital Proficiency granted by Flexible Training, and it must be a preferred weapon in one of his focused disciplines.
I like the idea behind flexible martial proficiency but not getting your first weapon choice at level 1 feels a little weird. I guess you were maybe trying to make a 1 level dip less attractive and make players stick it out for the long haul. The problem however is that most players who do dip into this class will likely have their weapon choice sorted already, while those actually interested in playing this thing out have to actually wait until level 2 before they get that long sword they had their eyes set on.
However are a feature and a way of balancing the classes many powers it’s not a bad idea.
I like the idea behind the Flexible Enchantments ability but I’m not sure about its application. I personally would have allowed them to select specific magical boons which they can gift their weapon at the start of an encounter and which remain in play for as long as they are holding said weapon or until the encounter ends. Just an idea though.
Flexible Exotic Proficiency maybe kicks in a little late? By 13 level you probably have your weapon system refined. It’s useful don’t get me wrong but I would personally have it start sooner.
Flash of Inspiration(Ex):
Spoiler
Once per Day at level 6, as a free action Jack of All Blades boosts his initiator level to equal his character level, and may sacrifice any number of readied maneuvers. If he does so, he may select any maneuver in his currently focused disciplines and use it, provided he it is legal at the time for him to do so (one could not use this ability to take a standard action attack on someone else's turn, but you could use it to use an immediate action if you had one available). The Jack takes non-lethal damage equal to the level of maneuver used, cannot recover maneuvers for one round, and counts as fatigued until the end of the encounter.
At 10th level this ability is upgraded to be usable once per encounter.
I really like this, its a great way of boosting yourself for that all important moment. The aditional boon at level 10 is also a sound move. Bravo!
Quick Focus(Ex):
Spoiler
As the Jack of All Blades continues his study of the Sublime, he becomes ever more adept changing the way he applies his findings. Once per day at level 8, with additional uses gained at level 14 and 18, he may switch one of the disciplines he has focused as a standard action, and may replace any maneuvers or stances from the changed discipline with the ones from his new area of focus as a move action.
Fits the flavour well, I like this.
Flash of Genuis(Ex):
Spoiler
Once per day at level 20, as a free action a Jack of All Blades may expend 15 readied maneuvers. In doing so, his Initiator level equals his character level for 1 action, and he may use any maneuver he wishes, even ones that are not from Disciplines he has currently focused on. He must be able to chose that discipline as a focus, and he must be able to use the maneuver he chooses, as described in Flash of Inspiration. He counts as fatigued until the end of the encounter, takes non-lethal damage equal to twice the level of maneuver he used, and cannot recover maneuvers for 1 round.
I’ll be honest i just don’t have enough insight into the mechanics of the book of nine swords to really give you a balanced view of this ability. I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful in this regard, but to be honest you probably know a lot better than me how this weighs in.
Summary
As I stated in my caveat at the start of this peach, I may be utterly wrong about all of the above, so take my thoughts with a few pinches of salt. I would really like to see someone out there with a greater understanding than myself step in and give you a hand because i like the vision you are building this towards but feel you maybe could use some more sage advice than i can offer in regard to the exact direction you should take your work.
That being said I will say that for a build in progress like this there is a lot to like. Obviously some of the edges are a little rough, but I have no doubt you shall polish them out.
The theme is strong and the vision is there to match it, so I have no doubt you will produce something of quality.Last edited by kanachi; 2012-08-24 at 04:05 PM.
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-24, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Erutnevda
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Question: If I make/post a martial discipline for general use, can I note that my contest entry can pick it up with the rules most of the homebrewed disciplines have of switching things out? If the answer is yes can I include a link to my entry?
If the answer is no, I'll wait to add that till after the contest.Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
Current Projects:
Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2
Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.
Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)
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2012-08-24, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)Firbolg in the Playground
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Minnesota
- Gender
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
If you make it for this contest, sure. If you've posted it outside of the contest before, no. Originally Posted by Zaydos
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-08-24, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Cambridge, UK
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Ok, well firstly i must say sorry to Tavar for my last peach being a bit naff... I’m afraid you’re knocking on the ceiling of my expertise with that one. I would really encourage someone out there to help pick up the obvious slack I have left though.
but with that said its time to roll out and see who is next in line... oohh i've been looking forward to this one.
The Mime
Marcel Marceau is back and hes here to kick your ass in silence.
Spoiler
[QUOTE=Jester of Doom;13761970]Mime
"My name is Gogo, Mimic Exstrordinarie! The basis-no, the very soul of mimicry is the ability to aptly imitate anything, no matter the situation. Thusly, I will imitate your every move! When you attack, I will attack, when you cast a spell, I will cast a spell. Could you imitate me, you'd certainly win. More likely, it will be curtains for you!" -Famed Mimic Gogo.
The Mime is a class based upun a seemingly simple concept: mimicking the abilities of other classes. As such, their abilities can change drastically from day to day, and even encounter to encounter. This is a class for those who play a fighter and wish they had magic, play a cleric and wish they had sneak attack, and play a rouge and wish they had firebreating.
I really like the image, its got a really nice unfinished quality to it which expresses the crazy eccentric nature of the class.
You also spell out what the class is all about farely well, so no problems here.
Pre game rule information stuff...
Spoiler
Adventures: Most mimes adventure simply to witness more skills to learn, others to test the skills they already know, but a large fraction adventure simply to put a roof over their head or right what they percieve as a great wrong.
Characteristics: Mimes have the esoteric ability to mimic actions performed by others, and as they grow in power they develop ever-improving mimicking skills, as well as learning some abilities permanently. In addition, mimes are masters of impersonation, and the most skilled of their kind do such even better than doppelgangers.
Most (but not all) mimes tend to wear heavy, concealing robes, face paint, masks, or anything else that coceals their face, as if no-one knows their face it is all that much harder to recognise them when they are in disguise.
Alignment: Although many would belive they tend towards chaos, the sheer amount of training, devotion and above all focus required to become a mime means that just as many are lawful. Ultimatly, however, the loss of self that results from copying others to the smallest detail, day in, day out, week after week, year after year, leads most mimes to a detached True Neutral.
Religion: Most mimes simply feign devotion to whatever god seems apropriate, whith a similarly apropriate level of fanaticism, very few mimes actually have religious beliefs of their own, and those that do generally worship their true faith only in secret.
Background: Most mimes learn from wandering sages, a few learn from ancient texts and in some settings secret scools exist, teaching the next generation of infiltrators. A very small amount are self-taught, and those that are almost always posess some strange, supernatural ability that facilitates their abilities.
Races: Most mimes are humans, simply because of their open-mindedness and large population, but the single race most likely to become a mime is probably changelings, followed by half-elves. Dwarves are extremely unlikely to become mimes, as such an extreme level of open-mindedness is somewhat alien to the dwarven mindset, and halflings ar also unlikely to become mimes for almost the oposite reason: halflings rarely sum up the devotion to master the art of mimicry. Any race that is unusually intelligent has a natural aptitude for miming.
Other Classes: Monks respect their discipline but are unnerved by their chaotic attitude, divine casters highly distrust mimes as they copy divine magic without any religious devotion, rouges are wary of them as master of deciet and disguise, fighters and other martial classes regard them much as they do rouges, and arcane casters scoff at their pathetic attempts at magic but deeply and horribly fear their ability to send someone's most powerfull spells back at them. Mimes' reactions to other classes vary greatly from mime to mime, but as a general rule, feel a deep sene of kinship and respect towards the more disciplined classes such as monk and psion, as well as a brotherly attitude towards rouges, ninjas, and factotums.
Role: A mime's role in a party greatly depends on the party makeup and their chosen abilities, but as a general rule they fall closest to rouge.
Adaptation: You could take away all spellcasting and Supernatural abilities and just use them for a "master of disguise/infiltrator" type of character, or you could restrict their entry to a secret sect that has mastered some kind of magical ability to memorize and perform viewed tecniques.
Each entry is concise and to the point but also very well written. I approve!
Game rule information...
Spoiler
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Mime's have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Intelligence is the most important stat for mimes as it effects both their casting and most of their class features.
Charisma is useful for most of their skills as well as a few class features, Constitution helps for hit points, incarnum, and rage,
Strength helps if you try to fight in melee, and Dexterity is a necesary buff to Armor Class.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8
Starting Age: As cleric.
Starting Gold: As fighter.
Class Skills
The Mime's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are...
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Psionic Device (Cha) and 5 additional skills chosen at entry into the class.
Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier
Wow that’s a wide and flexible skill array. Having said that I am sort of surprised not to see forgery in there as I can imagine them not only mimicking people but the documents and objects they need to perfect their impression.
Also maybe a d6 for hit dice? I can see that they can mimic the skills of a warrior but that does not necessarily mean they can mimic the physical resilience of one. Just my 2 coppers though.
Class Table...
Spoiler
MIME
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Bad saves|Good Save|Special
1st|+0|+0|+2|Mimic 1/encounter, Spell Mimicking, Good Save
2nd|+1|+0|+3|Learn Lesser Class Feature
3rd|+2|+1|+3|Reassign Class Features (x1)
4th|+3|+1|+4|Emulate Magic
5th|+3|+1|+4|Learn Lesser Class Feature
6th|+4|+2|+5|Mimic (standard action)
7th|+5|+2|+5|Mimic 2/encounter
8th|+6/+1|+2|+6|Learn Lesser Class Feature
9th|+6/+1|+3|+6|Reassign Class Features (x2)
10th|+7/+2|+3|+7|Master of Repitition
11th|+8/+3|+3|+7|Learn Moderate Class Feature
12th|+9/+4|+4|+8|Mimic (swift action)
13th|+9/+4|+4|+8|Master of Disguise
14th|+10/+5|+4|+9|Mimic 3/encounter, Learn Moderate Class Feature
15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+9|Reassign Class Features (x3)
16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|Master of Counterspelling
17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|Learn Greater Class Feature
18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|Mimic (immediate action)
19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|Master of Mimicry
20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|Learn Greater Class Feature, Reassign Class Features (All)[/table]
Peeks my interest with the saves and no dead levels... looks interesting.
Class features...
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
Spoiler
Mimes are proficient with all simple weapons, with light and medium armor, and shields (exept tower shields).
feels about right, but for some reason i quite like the idea of a single exotic weapon proficient from a list of crazy weird stuff (like whip daggers) just to give it the WTF flavour which is currently in my mouth.
Mimic (Ex):
Spoiler
As a full-round action (that voids use of their swift action this turn) a mime may copy every action performed by a target on their most recent turn.
•You must have had full view of the target and been able to clearly see these actions, and they must have occured within the last 6 seconds.
•When you activate this ability, you may repeat every action performed by the target on their last turn, in the same order they performed them in,
such as move, then attack, then swift action class feature, or 5ft-step, swift action class feature, full-attack.
•You may not rearrange the order that the copied actions are performed in.
•You may not emulate any abilities that were not activated by the target on that turn.
•You gain modifiers from all class features, feats, base attack bonuses, ability scores, and skill bonuses that modified these actions,
but you do not gain any other capacity of these abilities.
•You do not gain access to racial abilities and modifiers other than skill bonuses and feats.
•You may not copy spellcasting or spell-like abilities without the use of the Spell Mimicking ability. The same goes for Psionics.
•You do not gain benefits from any magic items or active spell effects.
•You do gain any modifiers that active abilities such as a barbarian's rage, a bound vestige or an active soulmeld would apply to those actions,
but you do not gain any other benefits from those abilities, nor do you gain these benefits for more than one round.
Long duration effects whose activation is copied with this ability function normally.
•You may copy supernatural abilities gained by class features such as vestiges or soulmelds.
•You may not copy the binding of a vestige or the shaping of a soulmeld.
•You may copy martial manuvers activated by the target.
•You may not copy any action that takes more than one round.
•You must use the target's ability modifiers, attack bonus, and skill modifiers, even if they are worse than your own.
Example: A mime mimics a 4th level human monk with the cleave feat who just moved 40ft, killed an orc with his unarmed strike,
and then attacked another orc with the cleave feat. the mime would gain access to the monk's fast movement, cleave feat, and 1d8 unarmed strike,
but none of the monk's other abilities, as they were not activated on the monk's turn. The mime could then, after activating this ability,
move and attack as the monk did. He need not move 40ft, (and indeed can't if he is wearing any armor) nor must he move in the same direction as the monk (or even at all). he may then make an attack using the monk's base attack bonus and strength modifiers (even if they are worse than his own).
He need not use the monk's unarmed strike, instead using whatever weapon he may have, and if he kills his target he may make another attack (with the monk's modifiers) as a result of the cleave feat. he may not, however, make actions based opon his own abilities, such as additional attacks granted by great cleave, or damage bonuses from sneak attack.
At first level you may activate this ability once an encounter, you gain additional uses on levels 7 and 14.
Perhaps my favourite single class feature in this entire contest thus far... perhaps.
Wonderfully thematic, strong and robust. I only worry that your constant copying of other peoples and creatures moves and the resulting need to ask “what do i add here?” may bog things down. To be honest though, I don’t really care about that when an ability is this damn cool.
minor nitpick... you seem to have hit return in a few places which has broken up your text and made it a bit anoying to read. Either break thigns up with clear gaps or write them as the same solid paragraph.
Spell Mimicking (Su):
Spoiler
Once per day per mime level, you may use a spell, power, spell-like ability, mystery, Etc. when you use your mimic ability. It is treated as though cast by a member of the target's class with a level equal to your mimie level, and all save DCs are based on your Int stat, rather than the ability score that class normally casts with. If a member of the target's class whose level is equal to your mime level and whose casting stat is equal to your Int could not cast the spell you are mimicking,
you may not mimic the spell. If a psionic power is augmented beyond a manifester of your mime level's ability to augment, it is instead augmented to the maximum degree such a character could. If you mimic a spell that has been moified with metamagic or similar feats, you may not cast the normal versions, nor may you add your own metamagic effects to spells you mimic.
More of the same and very little more to add.
Good Save (Ex):
Spoiler
You select one of your three saving throws, and it then uses the "Good Save" saving throw progression, instead of the "Bad Saves" progression used by the other two.
look what i wrote before i got to Reassign Class Features. Oh ye of little faith eh? hehe
I’m a bit disappointed here actually when i saw the unusual class table design i expected you to be experimenting with something a little “more”. This just feels a bit meh to me.
How about allowing them to choose their good save (which is a horrid name for an class feature by the way) at the start of each encounter?
Learn Lesser Class Feature:
Spoiler
at levels 2, 5, and 8, you choose one of the following class features:
Rage (Ex) as a 1st level barbarian. This ability does not improve with level nor does it gain additional uses.
Fast Movement (Ex) as the barbarian class feature.
one Bonus Feat taken from the fighter list. You may select this ability multiple times.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency (Ex): You gain proficiency with All martial weapons, heavy armor, and tower shields.
Mime's AC Bonus (Ex): You add your Int bonus to Ac and get an AC bonus equal to 1/5 your mime level. This ability does not function in armor.
This otherwise functions as the monk ability.
Unarmed Strike as a monk of your mime level.
Mime's Lay on Hands (Su):Each day you can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to your mime level × your Inteligence bonus. This ability otherwise functions as the paladin ability.
Wild Empathy (Ex) as the ranger class feature.
Lesser Sneak Attack (Ex): You gain Sneak Attack +1d6. This does not stack with Moderate Sneak Attack or Greater Sneak Attack.
Trapfinding as a rouge.
Familiar as the wizard class feature.
or
Psicrystal Affinity as a bonus feat, even if you do not fulfill the prerequisite.
Please space out your text better this feels really horridly compressed and makes for an uncomfortable read.
again look what i wrote before i got to Reassign Class Features. lol you sir have out foxed me!
That being said its a good class feature but to be honest it feels a little safe. I want you to push the boat out on these things a bit more. I don’t view a mime as a cemented in their ways class.... why can’t they pick from this list at the start of each day? (once they get to level X) Now that would be a bit more flexible and a lot more interesting.
on a serious note i would probably elude to Reassign Class Features ability within this ability and the saves ability.
Also, consider giving your class features slightly more inspiring/imaginative names... I'm all for calling a spade a spade but I’m not in a garden centre today mate.
Reassign Class Features (EX):
Spoiler
Starting at 3rd level, after a full 8 hours rest you may reselect any choices made when you aquired one of the following class features:
Good Save, Learn Lesser Class Feature, Emulate Magic*, Learn Moderate Class Feature, and Learn Greater Class Feature.
*:Special restrictions apply when reassigning this ability, see its description for details.
At 9th level you may reselect 2 class features each day, at 15th you may reselect 3, and at 20th you may reselect all of them each day.
Again with the formatting issues.
But still this class feature put me on the naughty step for my earlier lack of faith. lol
Emulate Magic (Su):
Spoiler
At 4th level you get to select one of the following abilities:
At this point i will stop going on about the formatting issues, but you really need to sort them. You have a great class here but if you make it hard to read you should not be surprised when people don’t read it.
Anyway, i like this feature as it allows you to give a little bit of personal identity and specialisation to your character.
Mimic (Standard Action) (Ex):
Spoiler
As a standard action, you may activate a use of your mimic ability to copy a single standard action performed by the target within the last 6 seconds. This otherwise functions as the mimic class feature.
You really should state in the text which level your getting this at, it saves cross referencing. Other than this though I like it.
Master of Repitition (Ex):
Spoiler
Your mastery of perfectly replicating actions has made you incredibly good at common tasks. you gain the ability to take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so for the following skills:
Bluff, Concentration, Disguise, Move Silently, Perform, Slight of Hand, Spot and one other skill of your choice.
This is OTT in my book especially allowing you to pick a skill of your choice. Its NEVER supposed to be possible to take 10 on a use magic device check.
Learn Moderate Class Feature (Ex):
Spoiler
at 11th & 14th level, you choose one of the following class features:
More of the same goodness.
Mimic (Swift Action) (Ex):
Spoiler
As a swift action, you may activate a use of your mimic ability to copy a single swift action performed by the target within the last 6 seconds. This otherwise functions as the mimic class feature.
Little to say as it follows the same chain of good things.
Master of Disguise (Ex):
Spoiler
A mime of this power has taken the skill of disguise to a superhuman level. You gain a +5 competence bonus on all Disguise checks and can make a Disguise check as a full-round action.
I like it, it turns you into one of those quick change artist.
Master of Counterspelling (Su):
Spoiler
Your ability to mimic spells has reached its pinnacle:
if you ready an action, as normal for counterspelling, you may automatically suceed by mimicking the very spell you are countering. this uses one use of your Mimic ability and your Spell Mimicking ability.
Rather potent, it’s a mage killing ability. Maybe it’s too good?
Learn Greater Class Feature (Ex):
Spoiler
at 17th & 20th level, you choose one of the following class features:
Still just as good as it always has been.
Mimic (Immediate Action) (Ex):
Spoiler
As an immediate action, you may activate a use of your mimic ability to copy a single immediate action performed by the target within the last 6 seconds. This otherwise functions as the mimic class feature.
Maybe less useful but who knows, still good to have i guess.
Master of Mimickry (Ex):
Spoiler
It is a rare occurance to see a mime of this skill, and when encountered, they are truly frightening to behold.
Once per day, as an immediate action, you may activate Reselect Class Features as though you had taken a full 8 hour rest. This ability caps at 3 reselected abilities and cannot reselect Emulate Magic.
I really like this, Its simple and yet allows you to tailor yourself to take on a mega encounter. A good capstone.
Full Descriptions For Non-Core Abilities:
Spoiler
[Snip!]
I'm not sure you can post these up here. You might want to consider removing them or writing your own unique abilities.
Summary
Well this class is a case of the good the bad and the ugly to be honest.
The core theme and mechanics of the class are awesome, probably some of the best I’ve seen in the contest to date. However some features feel a bit broken and the formatting well... it’s torrid.
The fact is though that poor formatting can be changed while a poor class has to be scrapped. You have only the former to worry about because in my eyes this late comer is showing up to the contest with a cocky assurance which tells me that we may indeed have a strong contender on our hands here.Last edited by kanachi; 2012-08-24 at 05:57 PM.
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-24, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
I just posted the discipline without listing anything about the Morphic Claw. They aren't really thematically linked or anything.
Now to actually make feats for the Morphic Claw.Added a feat for each of the disciplines, also sorted things alphabetically within the level.Last edited by Zaydos; 2012-08-24 at 05:38 PM.
Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
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2012-08-24, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Some of them are also not quite dead: gaining a new manuever readied or stance can be pretty nice. Originally Posted by kanachi
Derp. Added Shields and Light armor. And, well, I thought limiting their proficiency would be a nice way to encourage changing disciplines, without being too harsh or anything. Originally Posted by kanachi
I'm not sure: if you dip you only get 2 or 3 schools(though 6 levels is hardly a dip), and your IL is going to be pretty low. If you took one level in this class, at level 20 you'd only be able to have 1 6th level maneuver and 2 5th level ones. Originally Posted by kanachi
It's certainly good, but most martial adept classes are good dips. Keep in mind Initiator Level is the limiting factor on what manuevers you can learn, and that classes only add 1/2 initiator level to other classes.The restrictions here are good and fit the theme well. I still say this is a great class to have a 1 level dip in though, especially if you’re not a martial adept.
There is nothing wrong with this as such, I personally don’t scoff at 1 level dips as long as they fit the theme of the character a player is building.
Not really the reason it's there: mainly, I was trying to think of something to stuff in second level so that it wouldn't be dead, and delaying the Martial proficiency one level didn't seem like it would be too great of a burden.I like the idea behind flexible martial proficiency but not getting your first weapon choice at level 1 feels a little weird. I guess you were maybe trying to make a 1 level dip less attractive and make players stick it out for the long haul. The problem however is that most players who do dip into this class will likely have their weapon choice sorted already, while those actually interested in playing this thing out have to actually wait until level 2 before they get that long sword they had their eyes set on.
However are a feature and a way of balancing the classes many powers it’s not a bad idea.
But, I have a better system, now. Might end up dropping BaB down to 3/4, but there will be more boons to make up for that.
That leads to a whole mess of things, and the ability is really simply supposed to allow one to use any weapon they wish, rather than one because they can't afford the costs associated with having multiple magical weapons.I like the idea behind the Flexible Enchantments ability but I’m not sure about its application. I personally would have allowed them to select specific magical boons which they can gift their weapon at the start of an encounter and which remain in play for as long as they are holding said weapon or until the encounter ends. Just an idea though.
What do you mean by this?Flexible Exotic Proficiency maybe kicks in a little late? By 13 level you probably have your weapon system refined. It’s useful don’t get me wrong but I would personally have it start sooner.
Understood. Personally, I don't think it's a problem, but it's easy to miss flaws in one's own work.I’ll be honest i just don’t have enough insight into the mechanics of the book of nine swords to really give you a balanced view of this ability. I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful in this regard, but to be honest you probably know a lot better than me how this weighs in.Last edited by Tavar; 2012-08-24 at 05:59 PM.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-08-24, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Right then... it’s been epic guys but I’m almost there only one class to go.
If anyone else posts up a class now I’m sorry but you have missed my peaching window. I need to turn my gaze back to my own work after all! Hopefully some other kind soul on here will oblige you.
That being said its time for one last peach... let’s do this
The Everready
Sounds eager to please, let’s see if it hits the spot...
Spoiler
Put an image of your class here!
You mages and your need to rest... Sad.. you could be doing so much more with yourself.[/center]
There are several orders of guardians whose sole task is to protect something, or someone. An Everready is, as its name implies, always ready to protect others from another's blows.
Well being someone of a pretty lazy disposition i have the feeling this guy/gal would have harsh words to say to me.
No image yet to judge. Interesting quote and fluff.
Pre game rule information stuff...
Spoiler
Adventures: Why your class might adventure.
Characteristics: An Everready is a combat oriented class. They are capable of many different styles of fighting, though each Everready focuses on one of three paths.
Alignment: Everready select who they train carefully. They only accept people who are either righteous enough to be trusted or disciplined enough to be controlled. All others are turned away; though possible, Lawful Evil and Chaotic Good Everready typically are looked down upon. Everready society requires tolerance however, and one of these Everready could even rise high in the ranks if they show talent.
Religion: Everready prefer to distance themselves from religion, seeing it as a distraction to their art. They are quite open to others though, and some even become Clerics later in their career.
Background: Everready typically train from a young age in the secret ways of the Everready at one of the even more secret Everready Acadamies. Each Everready is trained in a specific style, and masters a particular set of equipment, though frequently they follow in the footsteps of the Everready that trained them.
Races: Humans, with their adaptability, take the flexibility an Everready presents in stride. Elves, with their dedication to both swordplay and the arts, are also frequently Everready, seeking to master the art of weaponry, and the magic inherent in the Everready’s style. Half orcs and half elves find the inherent society of the Everready world to be a comfort, and occasionally are Everready.
Other Classes: An Everready, knowing something of both magic and swordplay, find both magic users and mundane combatants interesting. Chaotic Everready sometimes find companionship with Barbarians, or other savages. Lawful Everready find that they share some similarities in philosophy with Monks, though their methods are completely different.
Role: An Everready is a combatant, their role is defined by their current stance.
Adaptation: Everready are by nature, a small order of soldiers that are typically contracted to guard mages. Adaptation could be as simple as the Everready being from far away lands, or as complex as a secret magocracy that is protected by an even more secret order of Everready.
Not entirely finished but it seems pretty good. Theme sounds interesting enough and draws your attention.
Game rule information...
Spoiler
GAME RULE INFORMATION
EVERREADY have the following game statistics.
Abilities: An Everready needs a good Intelligence score, as it powers most of their abilities; a high Intelligence will also help them to focus on their skills, and several defensive feats require a moderate Intelligence. In addition, as a primary melee combatant, they need to focus on physical stats.
Alignment: Any Good or any Lawful.
Hit Die: d10
Starting Age: As Wizard.
Starting Gold: As Fighter.
Class Skills
An EVERREADY'S class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Essence and Skills: An Everready gains additional skills based on their Essence. A Nightstalker adds Hide, Move Silently, and Perform (Dance) to their class skill list. A Brilliant Commander adds Heal to their class skill list. A Grey Guardian adds Concentration to their class skill list.
Skill Points at First Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier
Seems fine to me. The skill selection is pretty wide however, still further reading will tell me if it’s all justified.
Class Table...
Spoiler
CLASS NAME
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Essence, Weapon Skill
2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Any-Weapon Familiarity, Quick Draw
3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Focused Kit
4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Secondary Stances, Morphic Armor
5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Insightful Grace
6th|+6|+5|+2|+2|Morphic Weapon
7th|+7|+5|+2|+2|Insightful Agility
8th|+8|+6|+2|+2|Bonus Feat
9th|+9|+6|+3|+3|Endurance
10th|+10|+7|+3|+3|Kit Enhancements (2 sets)
11th|+11|+7|+3|+3|
12th|+12|+8|+4|+4|Bonus Feat
13th|+13|+8|+4|+4|Everready’s Endurance
14th|+14|+9|+4|+4|Kit Enhancement (3 sets)
15th|+15|+9|+5|+5|
16th|+16|+10|+5|+5|Bonus Feat
17th|+17|+10|+5|+5|Improved Everready’s Endurance
18th|+18|+11|+6|+6|Kit Enhancement (4 sets)
19th|+19|+11|+6|+6|
20th|+20|+12|+6|+6|Bonus Feat[/table]
Obviously still a couple of dead levels, but this is still a work in progress so i'm sure you will sort that out. Looks interesting none the less!
Class Features...
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
Spoiler
Everready are proficient in all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Great selection of weapons and armour.
Weapon Skill:
Spoiler
Everready are skilled in using their uncanny skill with weaponry for many purposes, even outside of combat. An Everready gains a bonus equal to half her Everready level (though this may not exceed her Intelligence bonus) to skill checks involving weapons, and to Intimidate and Perform (Weapon Drill) checks if she can use a weapon in the attempt. A few examples of applications of this ability include: Appraise checks to identify a weapon, Bluff checks to feint, Craft checks to make a weapon, Sleight of Hand checks to hide a weapon, and Spot and Search checks to find a weapon.
I really like this, its a very simple ability which adds a lot of versitility to things.
One thing though, if i were to gain a class feature to treat an improvised weapon as a weapon would that then let me use this on pretty much any skill check where i can use a "thing"? It would be pretty powerful but also a pretty cool.
Essence (ex):
Spoiler
Each Everready specializes in a particular fighting style, described by her chosen Essence. At first level an Everready must choose an Essence from the list below. Once chosen, this may not be changed. The Everready gains the bonuses on their essences table as they level up, in addition to their normal class features. In addition, they immediately gain access to the stance their Essence favors, and add the bonus skills associated with their Essence to their class skill list.
Sounds cool, i'll just pick out the bits which popped out at me...
1) You gain shadow step at 8th level and the maximum you can shadow step is 70feet (before 20th level kicks in) once they hit 18th level. The maximum DC of a 70 feet shadow step is 20, and yet at 10th level they gain the ability to take 10 on the check... now keep in mind that your getting +3 to perform dance at 3rd level and will have another +4 from Shadow’s Childe by 16th level this means giving you a total bonus of +7 before ranks or ability modifiers. So if you can must 3 points between your ability modifiers or ranks you will bypass 20 automatically and thus never need to worry about the skill check.
Now I dont really have a problem with the ability but if your going to make the skill check all but irelivant at almost every level which its in play you may as well just remove it.
2) Shadowstep Momentum probably kicks in to late to be of any real worth to the player... its a bit late to go into the scout class at that point, for example.
3) Your Grey Guardian seems to referance some stuff you have posted outside of the contest. As far as i know i think this breaks the contest rules so you may want to remove it and come up with something different?
Everready Stances (ex):
Spoiler
An Everready uses a stance to achieve certain goals. They start with only the stance that their Essence favors at level one, but at level four they gain access to the other two stances. Changing a stance is a swift action that can be done while Morphing Armor (see below). The Everready may only be in one stance at a time. An Everready counts as three levels lower when figuring the bonuses granted by a stance that is not favored by their Essence. A stance may only be used while an Everready is in the appropriate armor. For instance, while wearing a Chain Shirt, the Everready may only use the Skirmisher stance, but only if they have access to it.
Looks good. Just to check though, does the "Favored by" entry in either this or the Essences have any effect? or any they just there for flavour?
Also you stated before that Cinereal Bastion would use something which was posted outside the contest, so you may wish to change this.
Any-Weapon Familiarity (ex):
Spoiler
Everready train in the use of all sorts of weapons, even weapons that most people have never heard of (such as a Tekkan) or things that aren't normally weapons (barstool, backpack, gnome, etc.). This feature grants an extra weapon proficiency above and beyond what they are normally familiar with. The Everready may change the feat granted by this ability once per round as a swift action. This feat may never be used to qualify for other feats or abilities. In the case of an improvised weapon, the Everready is considered proficient with only a single improvised weapon, such as a boot, arrow, or halfling.
So this brings about my earlier question again... can they combine this with Weapon Skill?
If so level 2 may be a bit soon to get such an ability as it can be worked to basically get a +X to most skills if you game it right.
Quick Draw:
Spoiler
Everready always seem to have a weapon when you least expect it, hence the name. At second level, an Everready gains the feat Quick Draw as a bonus feat. If they have this feat already, they may instead select one [Fighter] feat that they meet the prerequisites for.
Nice and simple. Fits the theme.
Focused Kit (su):
Spoiler
Everready bond with a set of equipment, seeing it as an extension of themselves. As a ritual that takes 8 hours, they may attune a set of equipment that includes (A) a single suit of armor they are proficient in, (B) a single shield they are proficient with, and (C) a single weapon they are proficient in (though this must be an actual proficiency, not the one gained from Any-Weapon Familiarity). Regardless of the quality of the equipment, bound equipment is treated as items of at least masterwork quality while the Everready uses them. An Everready with the feat Two-Weapon Fighting may attune a second weapon, but they may not attune a shield if they do so.
In addition to being masterwork, an Everready may enchant the items in their kit with magic. Doing this takes 1 hour. The magic the Everready imparts into their kit only functions for the Everready. An Everready may not enchant ammunition for their weapon. The following table lists the maximum amount of enhancements their equipment may have. Any weapon, armor, or shield the Everready enchants must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. If the Everready has bonded to 2 weapons, as described above, one of these weapons gains enhancements based on the Weapon portion of the table, and the other one gains enhancement based on the Shield portion of the table. The Everready may reenchant the items in their Kit, losing the old enhancements and applying new ones. This follows the rules above.
Consider breaking this into smaller paragraphs... its a big wall of text at the moment.
I like it, its pretty cool and gives them a lot of extra gp to splash out on other things. They can also taylor their most important gear to suit an upcoming situation, which is pretty powerful.
Does this stack with existing enchantments? If so its extreamly potent at high levels +7 is not to be scoffed at!
Morphic Armor (su):
Spoiler
An Everready may use magic to completely alter the armor they wear as a Standard action. They may only do this with a suit of armor that has been attuned to them. The armor takes on all of the statistics of the new armor, but retains whatever magical properties it may have. This effect is not removed by an Antimagic. If examined, the item will have a Faint Transmutation aura, in addition to its other properties.
Alter how? the shape and appearance or are we talking actual type of armour here? can you turn leather into full plate?
I'm not sure they should be able to bypass anti magic with this
Insightful Grace:
Spoiler
An Everready has studied several techniques to avoid dangers that may harm them. They add their Intelligence bonus (if positive) to all saving throws.
Pretty mega boost to saves if int is your core stat.
Morphic Armor (su): ?
Spoiler
An Everready may use magic to completely alter the weapon they wield as a Standard action. They may only do this with a weapon that has been attuned to them. The weapon takes on all of the statistics of the new weapon, but retains whatever magical properties it may have. Abilities inappropriate to the new weapon are either swapped out for a similar ability suitable to the new weapon (such as keen to impact) or ignored completely (such as vorpal). This effect is not removed by an Antimagic. If examined, the item will have a Faint Transmutation aura, in addition to its other properties.
did you mean Morphic weapon?
Again this is very powerful especialy if it can bypass antimagic.
Insightful Agility (ex):
Spoiler
An Everready studies several techniques in order to avoid blows. They add their Intelligence bonus to their Dexterity bonus to AC, though this may not raise this above the maximum Dexterity bonus of their current armor. Everready use this ability frequently as they change armor types for their stances.
Makes lighter armour very strong... Leather for exampe has a max dex bonus of 6... so you could get +6 from your dex, +6 from your int and then +2 for the armour itself (total of +14). Compare this to full plate... +1 for dex, +1 for int and +8 for the armour (total of +10).
Also dont forget all this is before any magic item abilities are involved or even the Focused Kit ability!
Wow!
Bonus Feats:
Spoiler
At eighth level, and every four levels thereafter, the Everready gains a bonus [Fighter] feat that they meet the prerequisites for. At eighth level, they gain an effective Fighter level equal to half their Everready level for the purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.
I never object to bonus feats :)
Endurance:
Spoiler
At ninth level, the Everready becomes hardened to physical hardships. They gain the feat Endurance as a bonus feat. If they already have the feat Endurance, they instead gain one feat that they meet the prerequisites for.
Makes sense.
Kit Enhancements (su):
Spoiler
At tenth level, the Everready may enchant their kit to have multiple sets of enhancements that they can use depending on the situation. They may only have 1 set of enchantments active at any point in time. Switching Kit Enchantments is a Swift action, and the Everready may switch only 1 items enchantments per Swift action. The Everready sets up their Kit Enchantments when they are enchanting their weapon. Every four levels after tenth, the Everready may enchant an additional set of Kit Enhancements.
I know its their job to be ever ready, but combined with all of the above do you not think they are getting just a little bit OTT?
Everready's Endurance (ex):
Spoiler
At thirteenth level, the Everready becomes nearly impossible to slow down or make tired. They are immune to the any effect that bestows fatigue, and any effect that would make them Exhausted only renders them Fatigued. In addition, they only need half of the food, drink, and rest to function properly. However, if they are a spellcaster, they still need to rest for 8 hours to prepare spells.
Dont have a problem with this. A warforged ever ready would probably be a bit sad as it does nothing for them.
Improved Everready's Endurance (ex):
Spoiler
At seventeenth level, the Everready becomes completely impossible to slow down or make tired. They are constantly under the effects of a Freedom of Movement spell. They are also to immune to Fatigue and Exhaustion effects. Finally, the Everready needs only one quarter of the food, drink, and rest to function properly. This benefit now extends to any spellcasting they might have access to.
Much the same as the above.
summary...
Ok, so its obviously still just a work in progress, but i think you may want to seek ways to tone it down a bit. Its moved from being ever ready to ever owning in my opinion.
Also i was suprised that a class which focuses on being ever ready has no bonuses to initiative.
I may be wrong but i think some of your numbers and bonuses are a bit off and OTT you may wish to revise them to become more modist.
On the flip side i actually really like a lot of the mechanics and thought which has gone into this class. I really like weapon skill as a concept as well.
Keep plugging away at it, because i think its got a lot of promise!Last edited by kanachi; 2012-08-25 at 05:16 AM.
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-24, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)Dwarf in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
How did I forget FORGERY Originally Posted by kanachi
!? Fix'd.
I thought about d6 hit dice, but I want melee to be a serious option for them, so I put them on par with ranger & monk, rather than rouge & bard.Also maybe a d6 for hit dice? I can see that they can mimic the skills of a warrior but that does not necessarily mean they can mimic the physical resilience of one. Just my 2 coppers though.
Also thought about this, decided that if you want an exotic weapon, you can just take the feat at 2nd level, then swap it out when you get Use Any Item.feels about right, but for some reason i quite like the idea of a single exotic weapon proficient from a list of crazy weird stuff (like whip daggers) just to give it the WTF flavour which is currently in my mouth.
Really? thanks!Perhaps my favourite single class feature in this entire contest thus far... perhaps.
Will do.on a serious note i would probably elude to Reassign Class Features ability within this ability and the saves ability.
Sorry, I'll try to fix it. I originally wrote this up on notepad, and when I went back to remove all the line jumps, I missed... A lot.At this point i will stop going on about the formatting issues, but you really need to sort them. You have a great class here but if you make it hard to read you should not be surprised when people don’t read it.
Also, consider giving your class features slightly more inspiring/imaginative names... I'm all for calling a spade a spade but I’m not in a garden centre today mate.I just figured that since the whole idea is that they learned other class's abilities, I'd only name the new or modified ones.Possibly fixed.
This is OTT in my book especially allowing you to pick a skill of your choice. Its NEVER supposed to be possible to take 10 on a use magic device check.Actually, a rouge's Skill Mastery ability (which may be chosen at level 10) lets you always take 10 on 3 + Int modifier skills of your choice, including Use Magic Device.See Zaydos' post, below. Also, their spellcasting ability somewhat limits the usefulness of Use Magic Device.
That may be my single biggest fear with this class. I can't decide if mimic & spell mimicking usage is enough of a limiter, but I think its a really cool ability, so I think I'll wait till I've playtested before I change it.Rather potent, it’s a mage killing ability. Maybe it’s too good?
It looks that way, then the wizard casts celerity...Maybe less useful but who knows, still good to have i guess.
Again, thanks for the compliment.I really like this, Its simple and yet allows you to tailor yourself to take on a mega encounter. A good capstone.
Sorry, removed.I'm not sure you can post these up here. You might want to consider removing them or writing your own unique abilities.
Wow... My ego has not been stroked so much in a quite a while.in my eyes this late comer is showing up to the contest with a cocky assurance which tells me that we may indeed have a strong contender on our hands here.
Last edited by Jester of Doom; 2012-08-26 at 12:00 PM.
78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.
I started my first campaign on a spelljamming vessel disguised to look like a terrestrial zeppelin.
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2012-08-24, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Rogue's Skill Mastery does not affect Use Magic Device (it only lets you get around the "while threatened" problem).
However there are two base classes which can take 10 on UMD. Warlocks with Deceive Item at 4th level, and Artificers with Skill Mastery at Lv 13 (which explicitly works on UMD).Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
Current Projects:
Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2
Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.
Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)
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2012-08-25, 05:24 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Right well i've finally gone through and peached everything... it was an epic task but a lot of fun. I hope it was of help to everyone and look forward to seeing how they all evolve before the closing date!
Bravo one and all!OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-25, 08:33 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Right, I’ve added skills and ability score information to both the standard and magical variant conduit.
I've also included a description of how doubles may function outside of an encounter.
Finally and most importantly I’m trialling having all the conduits doubles having an equal level.
Anyway, for anyone who is willing I would be interested to see what you think of the class thus far.OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-25, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Looked over the updates and I still have to say it looks nice overall. Being myself, and being asked to look over homebrew I'm going to focus on the negative, since what works works and there isn't much to say about it. Also I'm not touching fluff (very rarely do in reviewing things).
Conduits and Buffs: Not a section on yours but I wanted to make sure how this worked. If a double was summoned and cast a spell on itself, mage armor for example, would mage armor be on the conduit afterwards? If no, how would Flesh to Stone and Baleful Polymorph interact with the double/conduit relationship.
Skills: I'd add Search and Diplomacy, but mostly I just don't see a theme to the skills as much as a random assortment. Not the worst list, but doesn't quite seem up to the high quality standard that the class as a whole sets.
Conduits and Spells: The progression bothers me for 2 reasons. One: while giving them a cross-double spells per day cap is a good idea, probably a necessary idea, I think capping their highest level spells at 5th level is not; I'd suggest giving them at least full bardic casting, perhaps even 7th level spells. Two: I don't like that it's a smooth every 2 level progression till level 10 and then cuts off. Besides creating a dichotomy where the cap doesn't matter which exists when Lv 4 spells are gained (Lv 4 is, in my experience, the big jump in a caster's power where they start leaving people behind; I've seen how it can be done at earlier levels, but not actually seen it done in game). I might look at bard for an idea of what levels they should get new spell levels maybe even (unlike bard) continuing the progression to Lv 7 spells at Lv 20.
In addition I have a question: how does this interact with Versatile Spellcaster (RotD). For example if one of my doubles was a sorcerer with Versatile Spellcaster and used 2 1st level spell slots to cast a 2nd level spell?
Warp Shield: It's obvious that the AC bonus is only against AoOs due to context, but you should probably change the wording to: Any double gains a +4 bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity provoked for moving or initiating a bull rush.
Void Keeper: I like it, but I can see times it would annoy your party members (not saying to change it, just noting the fact).
Endless Worlds: So now I need to actually check if things have spell components, or just get Eschew Materials. Not the worst thing, but you might want to allow the doubles to have non-costly spell components especially with the lowered level you're giving their max spells. Also what happens if a double summoned this way takes damage? Does it still simply vanish after 1 point?
Between Worlds: Note walls (less than your 1 round full movement through the ethereal) no longer mean anything to you. It's 13th level so it might not be too much, but if used cleverly this ability is a game changer.
5 World Step: You have 6 doubles at this level. Game balance-wise I don't know if 6 actions would be too much, but this almost seemed like it was a holdover from a version which got less doubles (don't remember if such a version existed or not).
Casting Variant: Trade 2 skill points/level, 1 hp/level, and +6 to Fort and Ref over 20 levels, for access to a small list of spells (there's a change to proficiencies too but going to be normally using my double's weapon proficiency anyway and armor will have to be wary of regardless). Personally I'd stick with the non-casting, but I can see why the casting one might be used at some point.Peanut Half-Dragon Necromancer by Kurien.
Current Projects:
Group: The Harrowing Halloween Harvest of Horror Part 2
Personal Silliness: Vote what Soulknife "Fix"/Inspired Class Should I make??? Past Work Expansion Caricatures.
Old: My homebrew (updated 9/9)
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2012-08-25, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Thanks for the PEACH! I'll try to give a PEACH back for your class. Though since a lot of better peachers have already pitched theirs, mine would most probably more on the fluff and layout.
Here are my answers and some further questions if you're interested.
SpoilerRight so time for another PEACH... whats up next...
SpoilerTitle Image and initial fluff...
SpoilerSpoiler[/CENTER]
"I gather you've heard of the tale of the good ol' Dr. Jekyll and big bad Mr. Hyde? What they never told you about was the story of the few others that shared that body with the two of 'em." - an old storyteller.
Personas are essentially the Jack of all trades type of class, able to adjust to what is needed for the task at hand, mostly through mundane means, though they do exhibit supernatural abilities, and through one of their multitudes of personalities, are able to exhibit arcane magic or psionic powers. And though they are good at dabbling with everything, they also excel at focusing their talents into one particular aspect.
I love the image, its very cool indeed (though a re-size would probably be good). The introduction also gives us a good idea of what to expect.
Lets move on...
Huh. Right. I should prolly roll over my lazy bum and resize the thing.
SpoilerPre game rule information stuff...
Spoiler
Adventures: Life on the road is almost a given for the Persona, whose life is a but a long series of being rejected, for who they are or what they are capable of. They find comfort in anonymity, and thus travel from place to place. Due to harsh circumstances that they have been through, most try to seek approval from others by trying to achieve great deeds, while others just try to show their superiority over others who have placed them as outcasts and lowlifes.
Characteristics: Personas are capable of filling almost any role in a party. They could very well live up to being the Jack of all Trades of the group, though through choosing the right abilities, they could pretty much excel at one role.
Alignment: Alignments can be as varied between Personas as there are Personas. And even in an individual Persona, some of her other personalities may exhibit a different belief systems from her, and could lean to a different alignment. However, being a Persona means having the will to control the multitude of voices in her head, that means reigning in their actions to the direction she would generally go for.
Religion: Different Personas worship different gods or goddesses, depending on what leanings they have, most probably worshiping the deity who exhibits the ideals that they strive for the most, or those they could see as someone who would understand their situation the most.
Background: Personas tend to come from turbulent and traumatic childhood, such that they develop coping mechanisms to protect themselves. These coping mechanisms may involve creating an outer shell, a persona, that comes out and takes all of the negative experiences and is also a means of outlet to express themselves when their true selves feel they have no power to do so.
Some Personas may develop rather later in life, and not through traumatic experiences. Some actors and players, for example, delve too deep in their subconscious to try to emulate roles that they are playing, and sometimes go beyond the boundary and create a different "self" entirely.
Races: Most intelligent beings can become Personas, most notably humans and their complex social interactions. Having multiple personalities does not equate to being a Persona; it is having enough willpower to reign in these different personalities to use to your advantage. Thus, races with high Wisdom scores tend to produce good Personas.
Other Classes: Most classes tend to be wary of Personas, as they can drastically change their personalities in an instant, and may seem them as unstable and dangerous, but once they are able to go through that prejudice, they could find worthy allies in the Persona.
Role: The Persona can be anybody, and thus she can do any role in the party. Thrown into an existing party, she can tailor her abilities to fit what is most needed of her or what is lacking in the group. Her primary weakness would be at being a primary spell caster, as the class does not focus too much on spells, though she could do a decent job of being a secondary spell caster.
Adaptation: Since Personas are mostly a mundane class, there are not too many things needed to change to adapt it to any campaign setting, though some of their abilities might be flavored differently or removed entirely to fit some settings that do not involve magic or psionics.
I like it, your kind of making something quite similar and yet also very different thematically from my dimensional conduit.
I always enjoy reading through the adaptation sections and was a bit disappointed by the lack of anything here really, but to be honest i understand why you have drawn a blank... this is ultimately little reason to adapt them at the moment.
I suppose you could re-theme it so they were the victems of multiple spirits being infused within them or some kind of magnet for ghosts who want to possess their body for a while (kinda like Whoopi Goldberg's character from ghost. lol).
Anyway, apart from my random thoughts its all very solid and has a nice flavor to it.
I've actually tried to think about something but I didn't really quite find any other more suitable theme that would explain the extraordinary nature of the abilities other than having DID or being a player. Ghosts are actually a good idea, but it kinda gives a more supernatural vibe to it.
SpoilerGame rule information...
Spoiler
GAME RULE INFORMATION
Personas have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Willpower is the most important attribute for a Persona, thus Wisdom is the key ability score for her. Constitution helps to mitigate low Fortitude saves and an average hit die. The third ability score would depend on what role you want to focus in the most.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Starting Age: As bard.
Starting Gold: As bard.
Class Skills
The Persona's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Psionic Device (Cha).
Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier
Great range of skills, solid hit dice and good number of skill points. My first thought was maybe to allow them to pick X skills to make class skills at first level as they can pretty much do anything.
Yeah, the class has average HD, skill points, and skill list, as befitting a generalist. My first thoughts was that the ability granted by the Persona ability of being able to use the associated skills of an archetype even untrained was already enough to answer this. Maybe I could add another Jack of All Trades ability granting 3 skills as class skills each time you take the ability, or taken only once but you gain more as you progress in class levels. Thoughts?
Spoiler
Class Table...
Spoiler
The Persona
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Personae, Jack of all Trades
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Multiple Personalities, Split Personalities (1 effect)
3rd|+2|+1|+1|+3|Jack of all Trades
4th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Hypnotic Induction
5th|+3|+1|+1|+4|Jack of all Trades
6th|+4|+2|+2|+5|Hypnosis (suggestion)
7th|+5|+2|+2|+5|Jack of all Trades
8th|+6/+1|+2|+2|+6|Overdrive
9th|+6/+1|+3|+3|+6|Jack of all Trades
10th|+7/+2|+3|+3|+7|Hypnosis (modify memory), One Mind
11th|+8/+3|+3|+3|+7|Jack of all Trades
12th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Split Personalities (2 effects)
13th|+9/+4|+4|+4|+8|Jack of all Trades
14th|+10/+5|+4|+4|+9|Hypnosis (psychic reformation)
15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+5|+9|Jack of all Trades
16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Hyper Overdrive
17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+5|+10|Jack of all Trades
18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+6|+11|Hypnosis (dominate monster)
19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Jack of all Trades
20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|One Mask[/table]
No dead levels and well paced out... first impression: looks good.
Cool.
SpoilerClass features...
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:
Spoiler
The Persona is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Personas are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).
Bardish types then. Seems solid enough.
Bards I believe are the average joes of the base classes, so I think this is fitting.
SpoilerPersonae (Ex):
Spoiler
The defining ability of the Persona is to switch personalities as easily as switching masks. Personas have experienced multitude of different circumstances both negative and positive to draw on, and an equally numerous personae may be formed, however they generally fall into six distinct archetypes, as detailed below. Each archetype is associated with an ability score, and whenever the Persona switches from one archetype to the other, she switches her Wisdom score with the ability score associated to that archetype. In the case of the Sage archetype, she instead gains a +2 bonus to her Wisdom score. In addition, all skills that have their key ability score the same as the associated ability score of the archetype they are in are treated as trained even without any ranks in them as long as the archetype is in effect.
At 1st level, the Persona can switch freely into any 3 archetype as a standard action for a number of times equal to his original Wisdom modifier per day. This can be any 3 of the 6 archetype per day; once she has switched through 3 archetypes, she can no longer switch to another archetype except between the 3. She can choose different archetypes each day, and this is determined only as soon as she switches into them. At 6th level, she can switch between 4 archetypes, 5 archetypes at 11th, and all archetypes at 16th level. The Persona can stay in an archetype for a number of hours equal to her class level for each instance she switches into a particular archetype. Switching back to normal state (no archetype) does not count as one use of this ability, but shares the same type of action required to shift into an archetype.
Each personality is a different entity on its own such that the Persona cannot remember anything that transpires around her during the time she is in a persona other than her normal self.
The Warrior – The Warrior archetype encompasses all the personae stemming from aggression, rage, anger, ferocity, and hatred. The Warrior is associated with the Strength ability score.
The Trickster – The Trickster defines all personae that exhibit playfulness, deftness, whimsicality, chaos, and adaptability. The Trickster is associated with the Dexterity ability score.
The Braveheart – The Braveheart archetype includes all personae that deal with fortitude, courage, honor, resilience, and the desire to protect. The Braveheart is associated with the Constitution ability score.
The Scholar – The Scholar archetype represents personae that reflect learning, thirst for new knowledge, curiosity, order, and dedication. The Scholar is associated with the Intelligence ability score.
The Sage – The Sage is the embodiment of all personae exhibiting unbending will, steadfast determination, clarity, perseverance, and enlightenment. The Sage is associated with the Wisdom ability score.
The Leader – The Leader archetype deals with all personae showing confidence, decisiveness, tact, cunning, and eloquence. The Leader is associated with the Charisma ability score.
I like it. Its a simple way of achieving a good amount of flexibility. I also love the fact you gave flavor for what each archetype represents.
Thanks. I just want to represent here that you can actually have any number of personalities, but rather than actually attributing an ability for each different personality, I wanted to put in the affinity to ability scores part in the class, hence the archetypes. Actually, having more than one Jack of all Trades abilities that synergize with a particular ability could still explain the existence of personalities more than 6.
SpoilerJack of all Trades (Ex):
Spoiler
Along with her different personalities, the Persona gains different abilities that stem from the unconscious retention of skills and abilities of each of the personae within her. At 1st level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the Persona learns one ability from the following list. Some of these abilities can be used by the Persona whether in normal state or switched into an archetype, while other abilities can only be used when switched to a particular archetype. Some abilities have synergies with particular archetypes, making them more potent when used while switched to that archetype, and some have more powerful versions called Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives which can be unlocked at higher levels.
Getting the benefits of synergy effects is not considered as one use of Jack of all Trades ability. However, Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives are equivalent to learning one additional ability. To be able to use the Hyper Overdrive of the Sneak Attack ability, for example, requires a level 18 Persona and 3 investments of the Jack of all Trades ability; one for the Sneak Attack ability, one for the Overdrive, and one for the Hyper Overdrive. They must also be taken in order, i.e. you cannot take a Hyper Overdrive option without taking the requisite Overdrive option, and you cannot take an Overdrive option without taking the requisite ability.
Jack of all Trades abilities are affected by the psychic reformation power or similar effects, and you can allocate a new set of abilities afterwards.
Not sure i like the terms "Overdrives" and "Hyper Overdrives" sounds like i'm driving a deathrace 2000 car.
Never the less, i like the abilities and the concepts behind them. I also like the way in which some have synergies with other aspects of the class. I think this does kind of make you feel obliged to build your character in a number of ways however, it would be nice if you created a way to benifit from a synergy without meeting its prerequisites (perhaps a feat which bonds the two aspects together as though they has a synergy?).
Anyway, looks good to me.
A feat would be a good way to answer that, yes. Hmm, I'm wondering if I should get rid of the clause that says I have to spend a Jack of all Trades ability slot for accessing Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives. That would drastically increase the flexibility of the class. However, I don't know if it would still be balanced. Thoughts?
SpoilerMultiple Personalities (Ex):
Spoiler
At 2nd level, the Persona's different personae continue to grow. Each of the gain their own meaning of "self"; each persona may call itself by a different name, have its own beliefs, identity, and personality distinct from the others. They also develop abilities distinct for each of them according to their personalities, as follows:
The Warrior - she becomes proficient with martial weapons, as well as one melee exotic and one ranged weapon of her choice. This choice must be made upon acquiring this ability, and cannot be changed.
The Trickster - she uses the good Reflex saves progression.
The Braveheart - she uses the good Fortitude saves progression.
The Scholar - she gains an insight bonus to all Intelligence-based skill checks equal to one-fourth her Persona class level (minimum 1).
The Sage - she gains an insight bonus to all Wisdom-based skill checks equal to one-fourth her Persona class level (minimum 1).
The Leader - she she gains an insight bonus to all Charisma-based skill checks equal to one-fourth her Persona class level (minimum 1).
These abilities are active as long as the Persona is switched to the particular archetype they are attributed to.
Seems pretty cool, I like the way this lets you switch up your character. I supose in game you would probably want to take some time to write yourself a character sheet for each Persona to help speed things up.
Yeah, but I don't think it's necessary. Most of the things granted are identical, you just have to note for which ability score.
SpoilerSplit Personalities (Ex):
Spoiler
Starting at 2nd level, whenever the Persona switches from one archetype to another, she can choose to ignore 1 mind-affecting effect currently active on her, for as long as she is in an archetype different from the archetype (or normal state) she was in when she suffered that effect. At 12th level, she can ignore 2 mind-affecting effects at a time.
Can her ability to switch personas be supressed by a mind effecting ability. So for example could she be instructed to maintain her current persona for the duration of the spell/effect/whatever? Are her personas individually sentient? i.e can they react even when another is turned to act against them.
Also if you were ordered to, for example, “attack an ally” would choosing to switch personal be in keeping with that effect if your current persona could indeed launch such an attack? Basically I guess I’m wondering who exactly is being controlled here and if therefore other personas have the ability to overthrow a mind affected persona without that persona choosing to allow them to do so?
Yes, if there exists an ability to do so.Can her ability to switch personas be supressed by a mind effecting ability. So for example could she be instructed to maintain her current persona for the duration of the spell/effect/whatever?
Yes. They are aware of themselves, but they are unaware of each other.Are her personas individually sentient?
I don't quite get this. One persona is pitted against another?i.e can they react even when another is turned to act against them.
As the order says, the immediate response would be to attack with what means you have as you are, so switching into another persona is not possible as the order is worded IMO. However, in the case that your enemy does not know of said ability and you are ordered to switch personalities, you can then choose to end the mind affecting effect.Also if you were ordered to, for example, “attack an ally” would choosing to switch personal be in keeping with that effect if your current persona could indeed launch such an attack? Basically I guess I’m wondering who exactly is being controlled here and if therefore other personas have the ability to overthrow a mind affected persona without that persona choosing to allow them to do so?
SpoilerHypnotic Induction (Ex):
Spoiler
At 4th level, the Persona learns to use hypnosis as a means to facilitate quicker switching from one archetype to another. Each day, she can spend a few minutes to undergo the process of hypnotic induction. The Persona has to roll an Autohypnosis check with a DC of 15. If she succeeds, for the rest of the day, she can utter a few keywords to make her switching into archetypes faster, making it as a move action instead of a standard action. If she fails, she can still switch as a move action, but due to errors in the process, she also becomes susceptible to suggestions from outside sources, receiving a -2 penalty to Will saves against mind affecting effects. At 14th level, the Persona takes only a swift action to switch archetypes.
The Persona can also initiate hypnotic induction on any one target she can see, and the target must be able to see and hear the Persona for this to work. As a standard action, the Persona makes a Autohypnosis roll. If the target fails a Will save with the DC equal to the Autohypnosis roll, the target suffers a -2 penalty to AC and Will saves for a number of rounds equal to the Persona’s class level. If a target succeeds on its saving throw against this ability, it is immune to this effect for 24 hours.
At 14th blank, the action required to do this ability is reduced to a move action.
While thematic on paper, I’m not so sure if this will really be played out in such a way in practice. More likely the character will simply roll a dice at the start of the day and simply suck up the penalty if it comes there way. Plus any such character would surely eliminate any chance of failure asap.
Actions are the most valuable resource in dnd so it would be folly not to attempt a process which allows you to get more bang for your buck if possible. Of course if this is what your expecting then don’t worry about it, I just thought I would make you aware of it.
Anyway, its a very nice ability. I like it.
The second part of the ability is also cool, but keep in mind that there are many ways to make skill checks far outstrip will saves, so a savvy character will make it extremely difficult for them to not overcome their victims save.
For the first part of the ability, I just put it there as a very real drawback, though the chance to have so is slim, especially for minmaxers. However, putting it as it is without any drawback at all is not broken anyway, and at higher levels, you are meant to autosucceed on the check.
For the second part, I do admit it is very hard to beat a skill check with a save, but as is, the skill has a penalty that does not scale, so at higher levels it becomes but a setup for the Hypnosis ability.
SpoilerHypnosis (Ex):
Spoiler
At 6th level, the Persona begins to learn different hypnosis techniques. Whenever an enemy is under hypnotic induction, as a move action, she can utter a few key words to make the target obey her commands. The target behaves similar to being under a suggestion spell, but the duration uses the remaining duration of the Hypnotic Induction ability.
At 10th level, the Persona can use this ability to modify her target's memory, as if the target is affected by the modify memory spell. At 14th level, she can use this ability to reformat the target's psyche, as the psychic reformation power. She and the target must pay the XP cost as normal. At 18th level, she can control her target similar to a dominate monster spell, with the duration using the remaining duration of the Hypnotic Induction ability.
The target gains a Will save for all of these effects, with the DC equal to 10 + 1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier.
At 14th level, the Persona can use this ability as a swift action.
Its very cool that hypnotic induction scales. I like the way you have implemented this.
Is a subject aware at any point that they have been the victim of hypnotic induction? I'm amusing not if you succeed? but would they be aware if you failed?
Maybe the target should get a save at the start of each round and again i worry that a skill vs save check has only 1 winner.
Yes, they would be aware even if you succeed or not. For Hypnosis abilities, however, no. Well, except for the psychic reformation part. It must be noted that the Hypnosis abilities have a different save DC (a normal one) from Hypnotic Induction, so you actually have to go through 2 saves to be affected by a Hypnosis ability, even though the first one is easy to fail.
SpoilerOverdrive (Ex):
Spoiler
At 8th level, the Persona can channel the very essence of her persona to achieve a heightened level of synergy with a particular ability. The Persona can now use the Overdrive option for certain Jack of all Trades abilities. She must be switched into the archetype that has synergy with the particular Jack of all Trades ability. Using this ability pushes the particular persona over her limit of concentration, sending her back into the Persona's subconscious and immediately reverts her into her normal state at the end of the ability.
Hate the name of this ability. Mechanically it works well though.
The name actually fits, as you have the persona's mind go into overdrive to achieve the heightened effects of the ability.
SpoilerOne Mind (Ex):
Spoiler
At 10th level, the Persona’s various personae gain awareness of each other’s existence, breaking the boundaries between them. She no longer forgets any events that happen when switching to other personas. In addition, she can gain the benefit of the Multiple Personalities ability of any one archetype she is not currently switched into for a number of times equal to half her Persona class levels per day. Each use lasts for a number of rounds equal to her original Wisdom modifier.
I hadn't noticed before that the other personas are not aware of each other and forget.
To be honest, while I love the theme I think the reality of acting like you have forgotten everything which has happened will get extremely repetitive and may prove very clunky and frustrating - especially in combat.
If a persona is not aware they are in a battle and then "bang!" all of a sudden they are... would they not be flat footed?
Roleplaying this may become quite tedious for everyone involved as they have to sit there and explain everything to the new persona for the umpteenth time. Sure the first few times it may be fun, quirky and interesting but I can see it being fraught with problems from a role playing perspective. Personal opinion only of course.
Memory is a very complex thing. For the flat-footed part, I would say awareness of combat is also a physical response (adrenaline release, affecting heart rate, pupil dilation, breathing, etc), so sharing one body, they would feel the rush of combat coming in, and thus not be flat-footed.
For the role play part, it is what it is. For a person with DID, barring it being a real case or not (so I'm basing this on characterizations from whatever I have read on it), you cannot choose what you remember or not. As a player though, it could be seen as another drawback for the flexibility granted by the class. You become skillful in another aspect and forget stuff, or you fight as you are and retain your memory. At least before 10th level. Besides, there are lots of ways to go about this, like writing notes or other similar tactics.
SpoilerHyper Overdrive (Ex):
Spoiler
By 16th level, the Persona unlocks the highest potentials of her abilities. She can now use the Hyper Overdrive options for certain Jack of all Trades abilities. As with the Overdrive ability, the Persona must be switched into the archetype that has synergy with the particular Jack of all Trades ability. This is more taxing than the Overdrive ability in that aside from the Persona immediately reverting into her normal state at the end of the ability, she cannot switch into any persona for 1d4 rounds.
Again I really dislike the name of this ability. However, mechanically its very sound. I like it.
This, however, I agree. I just didn't know what to name this ability tbh. Any suggestions?
SpoilerOne Mask (Ex):
Spoiler
At 20th level, the Persona has full control over his different personalities, being one of them and at the same time being all of them, and she is able to be who she wants to be on a whim. She can now switch into different archetypes as a free action once per round even without having to rely on hypnosis. She also gains immunity to all mind-affecting effects.
In addition, whenever she is switched into an archetype, she gains the benefit of another archetype as if she is switched into that archetype as well, gaining the Multiple Personalities ability of that archetype as well as being able to synergize with and use Overdrives and Hyper Overdrives of Jack of all Trades abilities linked to that archetype. She does not, however, gain the bonus of the Personae ability for that second archetype. This second archetype is chosen every time the Persona switches into an archetype.
A good capstone, nice and themeatic and some solid power. I very much like this!
Thanks!
SpoilerSummary
I really like this class, its one of my favourites so far actually. Though, for me, a few issues and quirks keep me from fully "loving it". Also a horrid choice of name for two of the classes abilities makes me a sad panda.
Still apart from those minor gripes I think you are onto a winner here. I would certainly like to see how this one performs in the field and may well adapt one into an npc whom I'm running in my current campaign. I think it can be re-themed to represent someone with an insane genius and split personality disorder very well indeed.
All in all this is a dark horse class in the contest in my eyes. Work at it a bit more and you may well go all the way.
p.s: sorry it took so long to write this one up by the way. I've had a busy few days.
Thanks for the peach! Really appreciated, and it helped me gain more insight on what to improve.
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2012-08-25, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
I'm working on something, so I hope you guys aren't all PEACHed out!
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2012-08-25, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)Troll in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Hey, if it isn't sirp. Fancy seeing you in these parts of the interwebz. Looking forward to your class.
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2012-08-25, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)Bugbear in the Playground
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Originally Posted by GuyFawkes
Hey, if it isn't sirp. Fancy seeing you in these parts of the interwebz. Looking forward to your class. I've decided gitp has been too long without my homebrews, so I've started porting stuff over here (including Wardancer ) and entering contests. I've got an entry in ErrantX's prc contest as well.
EDIT: Why the hell did I decide on mechanics which are so difficult to write?Last edited by sirpercival; 2012-08-25 at 01:50 PM.
(member in good standing of the troll-feeder's guild)
I am the assassin of productivity.
Super boss Muscle Wizard avvie by Ceika.
gitp extended sig
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2012-08-25, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)Ogre in the Playground
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Response to Kanachi's PEACH (thank you for the PEACH by the way
).
SpoilerSkills:
While I understand the concern on the wide skill array. I really feel that most of them are ones that they need. At heart, I gave them some of the Social skills, the movement skills, several Knowledges (something everyone should have). A wide skill selection isn't neccassarily bad though, the number of skills you get really governs how skillful you are, and 4+Int isn't that great. Them being Int based might take it over though, should I drop it down to 2+Int?
Class Table:
Actually, with the stances and essences, none of the levels are dead, they look dead on the class table, but aren't. In fact, each of the Essences gives a Capstone of sorts.
Weapon Skill:
It doesn't explicitly say so, but I'd say if you were treating an improvised weapon as a weapon that you were proficient in, I'd say yes it counts.
Essence
Shadowstep Momentum is in place for the Skirmisher stance, which grants Skirmish on its own (albeit a better version), giving 3d6+5 damage at that point. A lot of the class features bounce back and forth on each other actually, making for some interesting interplay. Nightstalker essence and Skirmisher stance are one such example.
The Shadowstep DC was a typo, the base DC is 20, which makes taking 10 only relevant if you don't Shadowstep your maximum, or have at least 14 Charisma, as the base DC for the maximum is calculated to be attainable with a Charisma of 10, max ranks, and all relevant bonuses, with an 8. I'll admit, that the level 20 ability makes that redundant, but that is also when you can extend your Shadowstep as far as you desire, making the DC unable to calculate.
My understanding of the rules is that the class itself cannot be posted anywhere outside of the contest thread until after the contest is over. Mechanics, by my reading, are acceptable.
Emphasis mine. I'm not trying to come across as rude, I just don't think it actually breaks the rules. Originally Posted by Temotoi, on Base Class Challenge Rules
Everready Stances:
The Favored by section denotes which stance you get at full strength at level 1. If your stance isn't favored by your class, you don't get it till level 4, and then you get it as if you were level 1. The stance you favor, at that point, is treated as level 4. This was explained in the Essence and Stance sections, should I clarify this further?
Any-Weapon Familiarity:
It doesn't grant a proficiency that can be used to qualify for other things, Weapon Skill would not be effected. I'll clarify that.
Focused Kit:
I'll break it up into more concise paragraphs. The intent is to make it not stack with any outside enchantments. I'll clarify that.
Morphic Armor/Weapon:
It becomes the new item completely, yes you can turn leather into full plate, that's the purpose of the ability. It is powerful, but it is neccasary to be able to use the different stances, as they each require a certain type of armor. The Antimagic clause states its not removed by an Antimagic field. It still can't be activated in an Antimagic field. I'll reword it to be clearer.
Insightful Agility:
It's supposed to be Int+Dex to figure your max dex bonus. So someone in Leather with 18 Int and 16 Dex would add them together (4+3), then compare to your max dex rating, in this case 6. It's so that the Grey Guard built for plate can Morphic Armor into Leather for Skirmisher stance and still have a reasonable AC. I'll clarify the order in which it is calculated, your right that is unreasonable as worded.
Insightful Grace:
Big, yes, but look at the Paladin, who gets the same ability at level 2.
Kit Enhancements:
Ah, this is where I expected the most eye-raising, and I was not surprised. This is pretty much just 'I have the right weapon for the situation.' In most campaigns, you were going to enchant that +1 Holy Burst Shock etc weapon anyway. In addition, if you were careful, you'd have, say, a Ghost Touch capsule to enchant your weapon with. This gives you the option of having, say, +1 Shock Holy Burst Metalline Longsword as your primary weapon, and then have that +2 Ghost Touch Undead Bane Longsword of Disruption also. It might be a little over the top, would reducing the maximum amount of enchantments on your secondary Kits be sufficient do you think? Possibly by 1, any more would defeat the purpose.
Summary:
The class is designed to function, and function well, alongside spellcasters. It will never overtake a spellcaster, but it will definitely outshine a fighter or barbarian. I can understand your concern, but this is aimed at that high level of power. I don't think it will actually outshine a spellcaster, but it definitely gives a good run. I'm not precisely sure, but it might be a tad over a ToB class, if not on par. The weapon enchantments is really where they're going to break, if they do.
Temotoi, I'm curious as to whether I can use alternate mechanics that I have posted outside of the contest in my class. Its not a class, so the rules don't precisely forbid or deny it, but I'd like to be sure it wouldn't be a faux pas. The mechanics are a set of alternate shield rules that I prefer to use in most of the things that I design, I'm willing to use standard rules, and have already included adaptations for such, but again, want to know if basing some of my class's features on alternate mechanics would be inappropriate.Avatar courtesy of Ceika.
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2012-08-25, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)Firbolg in the Playground
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Minnesota
- Gender
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Originally Posted by Zaydos
Question: If I make/post a martial discipline for general use, can I note that my contest entry can pick it up with the rules most of the homebrewed disciplines have of switching things out? If the answer is yes can I include a link to my entry?
If the answer is no, I'll wait to add that till after the contest.
Originally Posted by Temotei
I'm going to rescind my decision on the martial discipline and allow you to use such things in your classes as long as no mention of the class or any part of the class was made in that homebrew. Originally Posted by Techwarrior
I'll be changing the original post in the contest to reflect this ruling.Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-08-25, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)Titan in the Playground
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- CA
- Gender
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
Made some updates to the storyteller. A bit of general tweaking, but mostly, added some "short version" descriptions of the abilities in spoilers below the basic version, added something to fill the dead levels, and created a variant that tones down the sheer flexibility (and probably cuts down a fair bit of the power) of most of the class features in exchange for expanded spellcasting options.
A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.
If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm witty like a vampire!
World of Aranth
M&M 3e Character Guide
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2012-08-26, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Cambridge, UK
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
I've done a peach of most the classes here, but i'm pretty tuckered out, so I may leave it for a bit if thats ok. I will try to take a look at some point though. Originally Posted by sirpercival
OMFGWTF!!
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2012-08-26, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)Orc in the Playground
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Spain, it's sunny
Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread II
If I finish the heroes soon enough I promise some peaches though at the moment I am exhausted after 7 hours of driving non stop.
Working on: Anointed Heritor PEACHes are welcome.
Playing with: Firia & Cadaver
Awesome avatar by Strawberries
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