General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[Sanguine]

Right, clarified a bit:

Spoiler

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Supernal Fisherman Spirit
Cost: 3m; Mins: Survival 1, Essence 6; Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Food-Gathering Exercise

This charm supplements a dramatic action to go on a fishing trip. Such is the Lawgivers' mastery of the world that they may accomplish (Essence x 10) hours of catching fish, drinking beer, telling bigoted jokes, and complaining about joint pain, in the span of only 60 long ticks.

This is incredibly disturbing to look upon, and causes (Essence x 2)B dice of damage to mortals that witness it, which cannot be soaked with armor.

And of course it's perfectly valid. It's worth Essence 6 because you can put down mortal uprisings by broadcasting videos of your fishing trip/vacation (which is a priceless feeling). And it's not broken. Fits the criteria perfectly!

What I meant by Valid is I would allow it in a game I ran. Which is not something I can say about all canon material. I'm looking at you Primoridal Principle Emulation.

[tonberrian]

What I meant by Valid is I would allow it in a game I ran. Which is not something I can say about all canon material. I'm looking at you Primoridal Principle Emulation.

What's wrong with PPE?

[Mr.Bookworm]

What's wrong with PPE?

In my opinion? It's stupidly out of theme for Solars, and just adds fuel to the fire of the rather dumb "Solars can do everything ever" idea. That is to say, Solars can do (almost) everything ever with proper time, but the idea that they can do everything ever just by learning a Charm is dumb.

You could also probably use it to break the game in about twelve dozen different ways, but that's not unusual in Exalted.

[tonberrian]

I still don't see what's so bad about PPE when the Eclipse anima effect exists.

[Lochar]

Everything under the Sun(Pun intended) emulates the Eclipse anima. There is little good in playing an Eclipse when you have that and Power from Darkness to play with.

Diplomatic Immunity? Pshaw, you can kill 99% of the stuff that you have immunity against, and the other 1% requires some forethought before you kill it.

[Xefas]

I still don't see what's so bad about PPE when the Eclipse anima effect exists.

This assumes that the Eclipse anime effect should exist.

[tonberrian]

Everything under the Sun

Is this a charm or are you playing with words?

This assumes that the Eclipse anime effect should exist.

I never said I was in support of the Eclipse effect. I just think that, if one decides that PPE is antithematic, then they should consider the root ability (the Eclipse effect) both antithematic and more important, since it is a core effect. If you would take a D&D example, it's like calling the Draconic Polymorph spell (transforms into a creature with enhanced stats thanks to draconic influence, in a splatbook) broken without considering the basic Polymorph (core, changes into a different creature - generally, the brokenness comes from the creature's special abilities, not its stats).

[Mr.Bookworm]

This assumes that the Eclipse anime effect should exist.

Yeah, that.

I sort of like the stated idea of the Eclipse caste anima generalist effect, but I dislike the implementation.

But even if we're assuming that the Eclipse anima works as stands, do the Eclipses really need another kick in the balls? They're already the Chick of the Solars, there's no need to make it worse.

Diplomatic Immunity? Pshaw, you can kill 99% of the stuff that you have immunity against, and the other 1% requires some forethought before you kill it.

...Given that Diplomatic Immunity applies when you're waltzing into the home turf of the creatures in question, there's a good chance you would be dead if you didn't have that immunity. You can kill one raksha. You can't kill a thousand.

[Kyeudo]

You can kill one raksha. You can't kill a thousand.

Says who? My Dawn Caste would like to say otherwise.

[Lochar]

I'll point out the fact that there was a Solar that went into Malfeas just to wage continuous war. And did so for centuries, IIRC.

The Fae are even easier. Walk in there with built up Wyld Shaping, and drop Creation on them.

I don't think they have Underworld Immunity, which is probably just about the only thing that would be worth it, since a Solar can't respire essence in there.

[Kyeudo]

Yeah, the dead seem to be the only hole in the Eclipse Immunity oaths and yet the most glaring one.

[Tavar]

Well, there wasn't and organized force down there to deal with, except the Neverborn, and they're...different.

As for fey, well, it's been stated that Pre-Crusade Fey were much stronger, and they are those...I-things. The same kind of beings that Balor and that guy who almost beat the Unconquered Sun was.

[Lochar]

It's kinda dumb, because the Underworld was created by the deaths of the Primordials. If anyone could be bound, it would be dead enemies.

*shrug*

But then it completely hamstrings the Deathlords, as they are bound against the Eclipse.

[TheCountAlucard]

Hmm... and here I thought the fluff in other books supported them having diplomatic immunity in the Underworld as well... yet strangely, the closest the Core really gets to that is where it says, "the spirit world," which is pretty vague.

[Lochar]

Nope. Fluff from Malfeas and GWM both state how the Eclipse got immunity. Both were through oaths ripped from the throats of the governing entities.

Since the Neverborn sleep and as we've seen waking them up is a fairly bad idea, no oath from the governing beings of the Underworld have ever been made.

[TheCountAlucard]

Since the Neverborn sleep and as we've seen waking them up is a fairly bad idea, no oath from the governing beings of the Underworld have ever been made.

Err, we did wake them up, at least five of them. And slapped them in the face until they gave us Necromancy. Remember? That's explicitly how we got it.

And that's kinda how they're aware of everything now, and trying to end Creation. A decent trade, I suppose.

[meschlum]

Open-ended-ish question. What's everyone's favorite explanation for why the Lunars don't seem to have done much since the Usurpation?

Mine is that they ran into the following Oneiromancy before the Usurpation. Over, and over, and over. And each time they did, and mentioned the fact to the Solars, Sidereals, and Dragon Bloods they worked with, they were promptly ignored. Repeatedly.

So when all those idiots got themselves killed and they were free to do as they wished, the Lunars decided it was time to go into the Deep Wyld and... explain... a few things to the (insert chain of shapechanging expletives here) who created it.

They're still looking.

The Mockery of Definition

This spell is one of the great works of the Raksha art, forged when they learned that Creation's structure tied one meaning to each word, rather than all of them. This was, of course, utterly false - and so the Mockery was made.

When the spell is activated, it wraps itself around an immense portion of Creation, and insinuates itself within each Creation-Born there. Pouring vast amounts of Wyld energy into its victims, it imposes the most drastic of all changes upon them: none at all.

By the power of this Oneiromancy, one quarter of all Creation-Born in its reach become Tyrant Lizards - and are unchanged. One quarter become jellyfish - and their souls, minds, and bodies are untouched. One quarter are transmuted into eagles - and are unaltered. The last quarter is not affected at all. Every other day, old forms are abandoned and new ones assigned at random, to no effect.

Despite this total lack of results, the realms held in the Mockery's grip a eerie places filled with wonder, containing man-sized Tyrant Lizards with blunt teeth and opposable thumbs, jellyfish that drown in water and walk on their two legs, and eagles that neither fly nor hatch eggs, but instead use tools and clothing.

To anyone but a Lunar, this is perfectly normal. To most Lunars, it is maddeningly wrong, and Not Once has a single other Exalt listened. Instead, they've set forth to hunt jellyfish while riding eagles and using Tyrant Lizards for bait.

They deserve whatever they got, but right now, the Lunars have some Fair Folk to hunt down and inflict some extreme chastisement upon. Or they might make more.

5-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of the Living Kingdom: huge area of effect
Bestial Transformation (Tyrant Lizard): adds the Mute mutation, preventing those transformed from speaking to Tyrant Lizards. Also adds a few Delusions, that any sound coming from animals are animal sounds. Thus, no real effect on the transformed target.
Bestial Transformation (Jellyfish): see above.
Bestial Transformation (Eagle): see above.
Mad God Mien: because if Countermagic did something, people might suspect there was something going on.

How does it work? Anyone with Survival less than 4 cannot realize that the entirely unchanged people in the spell's area of effect are actually people rather than the beasts they've been 'turned' into. Anyone who has been 'transformed' remains unaware that others are transformed too, as they can't communicate.

Be honest. When creating a non-Lunar character, have you ever spent more than the strict minimum on Survival?



For the Appearance gig, Fair Folk manage reasonably well too. Without artifacts, they can reach 8 at character creation (Glorious Hero Form), and temporarily boost themselves to 9 via Soul Consuming Hunger. No ways to double that, though - but Charms for uncapping the Appearance MDV modifier, making people love them in a single scene of interaction, and turning hatred into love all exist. Only the last one can be resisted (3 wp to resist, easily boosted to 4 with Beguilement), so it's an option.

Plus, Assumption of Dreams and Passion helps, as does Assumption of Bestial Form for extra tentacles. Or not.

[Lix Lorn]

Yeah, that.

I sort of like the stated idea of the Eclipse caste anima generalist effect, but I dislike the implementation.

But even if we're assuming that the Eclipse anima works as stands, do the Eclipses really need another kick in the balls? They're already the Chick of the Solars, there's no need to make it worse.

I was always thinking of some kind of generalist system. I'd allow something like this:
All Celestial Exalted may take charms from other creatures, provided they have
A: A tutor
B: Meet all requirements
C: Have an Essence rating at least five higher than the minimum required for the charm.

For Terrestrial Exalted, C says six instead of five.
For Eclipses and analoguges, it instead says three.

This way, Eclipses do have an advantage, but they don't (yes, I'm going to make this pun) eclipse everyone else at higher exp.

[The Rose Dragon]

Nope. Fluff from Malfeas and GWM both state how the Eclipse got immunity. Both were through oaths ripped from the throats of the governing entities.

Since the Neverborn sleep and as we've seen waking them up is a fairly bad idea, no oath from the governing beings of the Underworld have ever been made.

The Underworld book states that Eclipse immunity oaths still apply there, and ghosts are spirits. It is weirder that it applies in the Wyld, because raksha emphatically are not spirits.

[Drascin]

Well, there wasn't and organized force down there to deal with, except the Neverborn, and they're...different.

As for fey, well, it's been stated that Pre-Crusade Fey were much stronger, and they are those...I-things. The same kind of beings that Balor and that guy who almost beat the Unconquered Sun was.

The word you're searching for is Ishvara . And yes, we could do with more detail on more Ishvara like Balor and Laashe were.

[Sanguine]

The Underworld book states that Eclipse immunity oaths still apply there, and ghosts are spirits. It is weirder that it applies in the Wyld, because raksha emphatically are not spirits.

It's not weird at all totally separate oaths; it even makes a point of separating them in the caste description, it does the same with demons to for some reason. In my personal Creation there are a handful(by Raksha standards) of Unshaped who have never interacted with Creation at all and are thus free from such oaths however. So on Eclipse Caste adventuring around in Pure Chaos isn't necessarily a smart thing.

[Indon]

Nope. Fluff from Malfeas and GWM both state how the Eclipse got immunity. Both were through oaths ripped from the throats of the governing entities.

The Eclipse should have protective oaths regarding Stygia, which was the government of the underworld during the First Age.

[Lochar]

Yeah, I missed those. Oops. :P

[Indon]

Yeah, I missed those. Oops. :P

Well, I don't know if it's written out anywhere, but the situation can be worked out logically.

Stygia was the power in the underworld in the first age, and so Stygian authorities are bound by the appropriate Eclipse oaths.

Since then, the Deathlords have largely displaced Stygia's authority, so the Eclipse caste now only benefit in the areas still under Stygia's control - so more or less, the city of Stygia itself.

[SurlySeraph]

Thanks.

Also, you know Vermillion Clouds of Sunset Style, the SMA that the sun knows? I've got an outline for a homebrew. Feedback on ideas, and improvements to the Sutra because it's pretty bad, would be appreciated.

Spoiler

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The Student's Sutra of Loyalty: Once, there was a bronze-skinned maiden...
Rising in the East Method
who woke up late.
Like the sun rising on a night battle, you may be slow to approach but always welcome and inspiring when you arrive. You can choose to take your first action at tick 6 instead of rolling your Join Battle pool as normal. If you do so, roll your Join Battle pool at tick 6; all of your allies who can see you gain 1 wp and as many motes as you rolled successes.

Blazing Palpebra Atemi
She rubbed sleep from her eyes
Gives the target a First Circle spiritual illness that causes their eyelids to emit brilliant light. Touch charm, target must roll [Stamina + Resistance] or be blinded, and even if succeed get -2 to all Perception and attack rolls scene-long. Also, it's Speed 3.

Vision-Confiscating Sutemi
and her sight went with it.
Your glory forces an enemy to focus on you, regardless of what they thought their intentions were - and you can hold their attention long enough for your allies to take advantage. Lets you perfectly redirect an attack from its target to yourself. Original target can still make a counterattack even though not actually attacked, and said counterattack is unexpected if the attacker can't beat your [Appearance + Presence] with [Perception + Awareness]

Ash-Rind Atemi (prereq: BP Atemi)
“That's not a good sign,” she said.
Poke. Now you have melanoma.
Well actually, a Second Circle spiritual illness that closely resembles melanoma, except that the affected skin doesn't turn black because of damaged cells overproducing melanin. The inside of the victim's skin is on fire, and it turns black where it's burned to ashes. The illness imposes the equivalent of a -4 wound penalty due to pain, and deals 1L per action to anyone not immune to fire.

Horizon-Crossing Zanshin (prereq: Rising in the East)
But she stood up tall
Permanent. You achieve transcendence in successfully defending your companions, becoming nearly impossible to harm when victory is fresh in your mind. After striking an opponent, or after making a Defend Other action which prevents any damage to the person you used it to protect, you gain hardness equal to the sum of your DVs for one action.

Coronal Blast Rebuke
because it was someone's fault, and he couldn't hide from her
(prereq: Vision-Confiscating)
Counterattack charm, deals environmental damage in an area of effect by spewing solar fire over it.

VCoS Form
because she wouldn't hide from him.
(prereqs: all 3 Tier 2 charms)
Do you know why people's eyes hurt when they stare at the sun? It didn't use to be like that, you know. Through most of the First Age, it was difficult to look at the sun because of its tremendous brightness and glory, but it didn't actually hurt. So, why? Because the sun is punching you. Every time you look at it, it's punching you. It's too far away to hurt much, but that's what it's doing.
Once per action, you automatically make a punch against everyone looking at you; the attack successes are fixed at 1/2 your attack pool for a punch and the damage is fixed at your punch damage + strength -1 per 20 yards away from you, to keep calculation from being a total pain. Can add any supplemental Martial Arts charm to it, but that counts as your Charm activation and costs double the normal mote cost.

Radiant Fusion Kata (prereq: VCoS Form)
The Elder Sutra of Loyalty: She shone like a torch, he burned like a tree.
Lasts 5 actions. Does aggravated environmental damage around you, and you gain 10 motes per action that vanish instead of being added to your pools if you don't use them then by the end of that action. Also, you take 1L every action, because you are in fact making your flesh undergo the motonic equivalent of nuclear fusion.

Termination Shock (prereq: VCoS Form)
“It wasn't because you took my eyes,” she said
Put up a barrier around yourself that damages and halts anyone who approaches it, and every enemy adjacent to it must roll [Dexterity or Stamina + Athletics or Resistance] at a difficulty of your MA every turn, suffering knockdown if they fail.

Plummeting Deathstrike of Xi (prereq: VCoS Form)
as she took much more than his.
You do lots of damage, blind opponent, and knock them back. In fact, you can actually knock them into Malfeas, the Underworld, or the Wyld because you hit them with all the force of the setting sun. Might make it so there's still a chance of knocking them into another realm of existence even if they parry, unless they pay 1 wp to resist.

Foes With Wax Wings Methodology (prereq: Termination Shock)
“It was because you took my eyes from my master.”
Permanently upgrades Termination Shock. In addition to around yourself, you can put it around a location, an ally, or an enemy, either to protect someone or to blast apart a formation of weak targets.
Also, if you have Radiant Fusion and a Termination Shock up around you at the same time, you add the amount of damage RF does to the knockdown difficulty.
Also, if you have Plummeting Deathstrike of Xi, you can reflexively pay its normal cost to use it on someone who's knocked down by a Termination Shock without it counting as a Charm activation.

Unchallenged Kamae Nimbus
“And I will not let my master be conquered.”
Can reflexively activate VCoS Form, Radiant Fusion Kata, and Termination Shock as if had them combo'd, and VCoS Form's punching has Blazing Palebra Atemi and Ash-Rind Atemi applied to it. Your devastating aura of nuclear fire from Radiant Fusion Kata now just feels pleasantly warm to your allies, who can take refuge at your side.
Enemies must succeed spend 1 wp each time they want to attack you or any ally protected by Termination Shock or Radiant Fusion Kata, scarcely capable of attacking due to the overwhelming, clearly indomitable glory and power you display.

[Sanguine]

Thanks.

Also, you know Vermillion Clouds of Sunset Style, the SMA that the sun knows? I've got an outline for a homebrew. Feedback on ideas, and improvements to the Sutra because it's pretty bad, would be appreciated.

Spoiler

Show

The Student's Sutra of Loyalty: Once, there was a bronze-skinned maiden...
Rising in the East Method
who woke up late.
Like the sun rising on a night battle, you may be slow to approach but always welcome and inspiring when you arrive. You can choose to take your first action at tick 6 instead of rolling your Join Battle pool as normal. If you do so, roll your Join Battle pool at tick 6; all of your allies who can see you gain 1 wp and as many motes as you rolled successes.

Blazing Palpebra Atemi
She rubbed sleep from her eyes
Gives the target a First Circle spiritual illness that causes their eyelids to emit brilliant light. Touch charm, target must roll [Stamina + Resistance] or be blinded, and even if succeed get -2 to all Perception and attack rolls scene-long. Also, it's Speed 3.

Vision-Confiscating Sutemi
and her sight went with it.
Your glory forces an enemy to focus on you, regardless of what they thought their intentions were - and you can hold their attention long enough for your allies to take advantage. Lets you perfectly redirect an attack from its target to yourself. Original target can still make a counterattack even though not actually attacked, and said counterattack is unexpected if the attacker can't beat your [Appearance + Presence] with [Perception + Awareness]

Ash-Rind Atemi (prereq: BP Atemi)
“That's not a good sign,” she said.
Poke. Now you have melanoma.
Well actually, a Second Circle spiritual illness that closely resembles melanoma, except that the affected skin doesn't turn black because of damaged cells overproducing melanin. The inside of the victim's skin is on fire, and it turns black where it's burned to ashes. The illness imposes the equivalent of a -4 wound penalty due to pain, and deals 1L per action to anyone not immune to fire.

Horizon-Crossing Zanshin (prereq: Rising in the East)
But she stood up tall
Permanent. You achieve transcendence in successfully defending your companions, becoming nearly impossible to harm when victory is fresh in your mind. After striking an opponent, or after making a Defend Other action which prevents any damage to the person you used it to protect, you gain hardness equal to the sum of your DVs for one action.

Coronal Blast Rebuke
because it was someone's fault, and he couldn't hide from her
(prereq: Vision-Confiscating)
Counterattack charm, deals environmental damage in an area of effect by spewing solar fire over it.

VCoS Form
because she wouldn't hide from him.
(prereqs: all 3 Tier 2 charms)
Do you know why people's eyes hurt when they stare at the sun? It didn't use to be like that, you know. Through most of the First Age, it was difficult to look at the sun because of its tremendous brightness and glory, but it didn't actually hurt. So, why? Because the sun is punching you. Every time you look at it, it's punching you. It's too far away to hurt much, but that's what it's doing.
Once per action, you automatically make a punch against everyone looking at you; the attack successes are fixed at 1/2 your attack pool for a punch and the damage is fixed at your punch damage + strength -1 per 20 yards away from you, to keep calculation from being a total pain. Can add any supplemental Martial Arts charm to it, but that counts as your Charm activation and costs double the normal mote cost.

Radiant Fusion Kata (prereq: VCoS Form)
The Elder Sutra of Loyalty: She shone like a torch, he burned like a tree.
Lasts 5 actions. Does aggravated environmental damage around you, and you gain 10 motes per action that vanish instead of being added to your pools if you don't use them then by the end of that action. Also, you take 1L every action, because you are in fact making your flesh undergo the motonic equivalent of nuclear fusion.

Termination Shock (prereq: VCoS Form)
“It wasn't because you took my eyes,” she said
Put up a barrier around yourself that damages and halts anyone who approaches it, and every enemy adjacent to it must roll [Dexterity or Stamina + Athletics or Resistance] at a difficulty of your MA every turn, suffering knockdown if they fail.

Plummeting Deathstrike of Xi (prereq: VCoS Form)
as she took much more than his.
You do lots of damage, blind opponent, and knock them back. In fact, you can actually knock them into Malfeas, the Underworld, or the Wyld because you hit them with all the force of the setting sun. Might make it so there's still a chance of knocking them into another realm of existence even if they parry, unless they pay 1 wp to resist.

Foes With Wax Wings Methodology (prereq: Termination Shock)
“It was because you took my eyes from my master.”
Permanently upgrades Termination Shock. In addition to around yourself, you can put it around a location, an ally, or an enemy, either to protect someone or to blast apart a formation of weak targets.
Also, if you have Radiant Fusion and a Termination Shock up around you at the same time, you add the amount of damage RF does to the knockdown difficulty.
Also, if you have Plummeting Deathstrike of Xi, you can reflexively pay its normal cost to use it on someone who's knocked down by a Termination Shock without it counting as a Charm activation.

Unchallenged Kamae Nimbus
“And I will not let my master be conquered.”
Can reflexively activate VCoS Form, Radiant Fusion Kata, and Termination Shock as if had them combo'd, and VCoS Form's punching has Blazing Palebra Atemi and Ash-Rind Atemi applied to it. Your devastating aura of nuclear fire from Radiant Fusion Kata now just feels pleasantly warm to your allies, who can take refuge at your side.
Enemies must succeed spend 1 wp each time they want to attack you or any ally protected by Termination Shock or Radiant Fusion Kata, scarcely capable of attacking due to the overwhelming, clearly indomitable glory and power you display.

I don't love it. Blazing Palpebra Atemi and Rising in the East method seem a tad underwhelming. Radiant Fusion Kata seems like a Charm someone emulating the Daystar would know not one the Daystar itself would. The same with Coronal Blast Rebuke.

Also, Foes with Wax Wings Methodology doesn't really seem to have anything to do with it's name which is a darn shame.

[SurlySeraph]

True. Especially Foes With Wax Wings; I couldn't think of anything better to do with it that wouldn't be basically "Termination Shock, except slightly different." I'd love ideas on how to do it better.

[Sanguine]

True. Especially Foes With Wax Wings; I couldn't think of anything better to do with it that wouldn't be basically "Termination Shock, except slightly different." I'd love ideas on how to do it better.

I would love to offer them. However the Muses see fit to deny my humble plea.

[Jokasti]

Well, the Sun kept Icarus from going any farther, so maybe a parylzation effect? Like in media, when a spotlight hits someone they stop in their tracks.

[Xefas]

My thought process for that charm name had something to do with The Sun being the idol of perfection, and Icarus having the hubris to try to reach its unattainable glory.

I was thinking of a charm that punished enemies for trying to be as good as you at stuff. Hence "Foes With Wax Wings" - they try to equal you, and you melt them for it.

So, maybe something that punishes foes for using more motes than you in a given round (this might go well with Radiant Fusion Kata), or having higher die pools, or making bigger stunts or something.