General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[tonberrian]

Man, I really wish I had Elloge's charmset, because I want to build a character who links worlds via books a la the D'ni in Myst et al.

[Xefas]

I may have made an Adorjan Pony. What do you guys think?

Spoiler

Show

[Lix Lorn]

Ahem.

SQUEE.

I think that answers your question. :P

[Jinn Master]

That looks... interesting.

[Fearan]

Hi. I'm pretty new in Exalted, so I'd like to ask for an advice. I'm making a character focused on martial arts. Right now, I'm trying to understad, which one is worse taking. I need a celestial ma with no weapon and no armor (tricks like "count as unarmed when using x" are ok). What can you recommend me?

[DeadManSleeping]

The only CMA White Wolf has ever published that doesn't allow weapons with unarmed is Celestial Monkey Style, which has only three good Charms at most, and they're all after you get some fairly useless starting Charms. And one of those three Charms is a Charm that lets you use the style with weapons and armor.

Honestly, just take a Martial Arts style you like and don't bother with the weapons. Unless it's an Immaculate style or Righteous Devil Style (which shouldn't exist), nobody's expecting you to need weapons for any of them.

Since you're new, I'm guessing you're making a Solar. Solar Hero style is pretty decent as far as MA styles go. It's flavored as barroom brawl, but that doesn't mean you can't be agile and fun. It just means you focus quite a bit on delivering singular blows and throws with a lot of force.

Snake Style and Mantis Style are good flavorfully, but don't tend to play well mechanically. Tiger Style is also good flavorfully, but some people whine about overpoweredness. Still, all three are based around using your body to emulate powerful animals, which is fun.

That's about all I've got. There are other styles, but they tend to have some extra tricky-trick to them, and aren't based solely around turning your body into a weapon.

[Fearan]

Oh, right. Actually, I'm making an Abyssal. Is Dark Messiah as ok as Solar hero? Thanks for the advices.

[SurlySeraph]

DMS is mechanically alright except for Void Avatar Prana, which is game-breaking. It's not a very powerful MA because it's so focused on hitting people, with little defensive ability or interesting tricks. But if you just want to grapple people or punch their limbs off, it's perfectly good.

[DeadManSleeping]

DMS is mechanically alright except for Void Avatar Prana, which is game-breaking. It's not a very powerful MA because it's so focused on hitting people, with little defensive ability or interesting tricks. But if you just want to grapple people or punch their limbs off, it's perfectly good.

But I don't have Void Avatar Prana. I don't use Dark Messiah Style!

Also, an alternate reading of the Charm makes it useless instead of overpowered. I can't remember exactly how, though. Either way, it's a downright terrible Charm.

Great style, though.

[Friv]

But I don't have Void Avatar Prana. I don't use Dark Messiah Style!

Also, an alternate reading of the Charm makes it useless instead of overpowered. I can't remember exactly how, though. Either way, it's a downright terrible Charm.

Great style, though.

IIRC, Void Avatar Prana has a duration of Instant, specifies that it can only be activated when the character activates Dark Messiah Form, and proceeds to not actually say anything about staying on for all of DMF's duration. As a result, a strict reading of the Charm is that you have to activate it against every attack made in the tick that you activate your Form, after which it vanishes. To do what it wants to do, it would have to be a Permanent Charm which increases the cost of DMF to grant additional powers.

It's moderately clear that it's meant to be active for the whole scene, but that's stupid overpowered, so no one does it either.

[SurlySeraph]

Hey, that's interesting. What if we read VAP such that you have to reactivate DMS Form every time you want to use it?
It's now a Speed 6 action that costs 7m, 1 wp.
If anyone attacks you on the single tick it goes active on, you get a perfect block. Pay 1m per block.
If anyone's touching you on that tick, they take unsoakable lethal damage each time they do.
If you can somehow make a hand-to-hand attack on that tick (I don't see a way short of Charcoal March of Spiders Style, because it lacks a combo keyword, but maybe there's a way counterattack charms!), you add said unsoakable lethal damage to your attack. 1m per attack, if you somehow get several.
Your anima flashes totemic on that tick.

That actually looks kind of OK to me. DMS Form can't be activated in a grapple, so you can't just clinch someone and burn them with unsoakable damage every 6 ticks until they die. You only get the ultracheap perfect defense and enemy-harming if you have good timing. As for the anima, paying 7m, 1wp and taking 6 ticks just to scare mortals isn't exactly overpowered at Essence 4. Kinda weak for a capstone, actually. Looks like Dean Shomshak was good at balancing things all along!

Oh wait, except he said he intended it to be a scene-length perfect block. Balanced by it not being applicability-trumping (so unblockable attacks work on it), the ability to run out of Essence, and flaws of invulnerability. Damn it, Dean.

[Indon]

Oh wait, except he said he intended it to be a scene-length perfect block. Balanced by it not being applicability-trumping (so unblockable attacks work on it), the ability to run out of Essence, and flaws of invulnerability. Damn it, Dean.

If you want to weaken it, I'd make the mote expenditure on attacking or being attacked involuntary.

Now, the charm can be defeated by just wailing away at the user with flurries, as the blind thrashing of the void lacks the finesse to identify and withhold its' energy against weak attacks, and in doing so saps the essence of the user to nothing.

[SurlySeraph]

Yeah, but all paranoia combat consists of wailing away with flurries and waiting for your opponent to run out of motes. Scene-long VAP would cost only 1m per PD, 2m cheaper than any other PD I know of except Crossed Wings Denial (which increases in cost every time you use it).

[Indon]

Yeah, but all paranoia combat consists of wailing away with flurries and waiting for your opponent to run out of motes. Scene-long VAP would cost only 1m per PD, 2m cheaper than any other PD I know of except Crossed Wings Denial (which increases in cost every time you use it).

Normally in such combat, the flurries have to be threatening enough to beat the defender's DV in order to drain their motes - if you're attacked with a flurry that's not likely to hit, you use a post-step-2 defense.

With that VAP, they wouldn't have to be.

[SurlySeraph]

Oh, so Voidy the Abyssal would be forced to spend motes perfecting away the attacks of Doomed Mortal #301 as well as the attacks of Invincible Sword Princess. OK, that would be situationally more balanced.

People on rpg.net suggest houseruling it so when you activate DMS form you get the 1m perfect parries and bonus effects until your DV refreshes, so you can enter the form in the middle of a fight without being hurt, and harm anyone who tries to hit you while you're powering up. That seems like a great solution, certainly better than my suggestion of "It only works on that one tick." With that, I'd start fights by putting up whatever the Abyssal mirror of Ready in Eight Directions is, and then put up VAP on the last action that Ri8D is active.

[Indon]

Oh, so Voidy the Abyssal would be forced to spend motes perfecting away the attacks of Doomed Mortal #301 as well as the attacks of Invincible Sword Princess. OK, that would be situationally more balanced.

I was thinking more along the lines of someone who figured this out picking up a handful of rocks and pelting away Voidy's motes, but that'd apply too.

Are there any war-command-oriented martial arts styles out there? I'm designing one (The White Lotus Gambit style, inspired by Avatar) and was wondering if there was anywhere I could draw inspiration.

[Reynard]

I was thinking more along the lines of someone who figured this out picking up a handful of rocks and pelting away Voidy's motes, but that'd apply too.

Are there any war-command-oriented martial arts styles out there? I'm designing one (The White Lotus Gambit style, inspired by Avatar) and was wondering if there was anywhere I could draw inspiration.

Well, there's this Homebrew style.

I can't speak for it's effectiveness, due to Mass Combat being the terrible, headachey waste of time that it is.

[SurlySeraph]

Are there any war-command-oriented martial arts styles out there? I'm designing one (The White Lotus Gambit style, inspired by Avatar) and was wondering if there was anywhere I could draw inspiration.

Crimson Pentacle Blade is a pretty strong TMA about formation fighting
Throne Shadow has a few useful war-ish Charms
White Reaper is more about personally slaughtering armies than command but could be useful
Silver-Voiced Nightingale has various Charms for singing to encourage your allies and demoralize your enemies
Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield is an SMA that's useful for inspiration. Borked in places, like most SMAs, but useful for inspiration.

[Tavar]

So, I know that in Exalted, there are things called behemoths. Created by Primordials or the Fey for the most part, they are weird, strange, and powerful. But, where are they detailed? I mean, they're often supposed to be fought. Were are example stats? Or rules for building your own?

[DeadManSleeping]

So, I know that in Exalted, there are things called behemoths. Created by Primordials or the Fey for the most part, they are weird, strange, and powerful. But, where are they detailed? I mean, they're often supposed to be fought. Were are example stats? Or rules for building your own?

My theory is that the Exalted have wiped them out so thoroughly that even their stat entries were obliterated from all the manuals. And yes, White Wolf, you can use that as your excuse.

[Sanguine]

My theory is that the Exalted have wiped them out so thoroughly that even their stat entries were obliterated from all the manuals. And yes, White Wolf, you can use that as your excuse.

Except there are several statblocks for Behemoths throughout the Compass books.

Edit: Guidelines for building Fey Behemoths are in Graceful Wicked Masques. As far as I know there are no guidelines for making Primordial Behemoths.

[Xefas]

My theory is that the Exalted have wiped them out so thoroughly that even their stat entries were obliterated from all the manuals. And yes, White Wolf, you can use that as your excuse.

It's an upgrade charm for Ghost Eating Technique called "Rulebook Editing Redaction". Such is your magnanimity that you purge a creature so thoroughly that not even Exalts in alternate realities that have yet to exist will have to fight them.

[Lochar]

There's stats for one in the Underworld book, if I remember correctly. It's one of the heka(insert spelling attempt here).

[Sanguine]

There's one in the Malfeas book and two in the North book. Those are just off the top of my head, if I made a concerted effort I could probably find two or three more.

[Indon]

Well, there's this Homebrew style.

I can't speak for it's effectiveness, due to Mass Combat being the terrible, headachey waste of time that it is.

Crimson Pentacle Blade is a pretty strong TMA about formation fighting
Throne Shadow has a few useful war-ish Charms
White Reaper is more about personally slaughtering armies than command but could be useful
Silver-Voiced Nightingale has various Charms for singing to encourage your allies and demoralize your enemies
Scarlet-Patterned Battlefield is an SMA that's useful for inspiration. Borked in places, like most SMAs, but useful for inspiration.

Thanks for the suggestions! Reynard, I've not really run into any problems with Mass Combat. What kinds of things are you talking about?

[Lix Lorn]

There's stats for one in the Underworld book, if I remember correctly. It's one of the heka(insert spelling attempt here).

Hekathonkire? Something like that.

[MickJay]

Hekatonkheires (or hekatoncheires, if you prefer spelling closer to the original Greek). Switch the last "es" to "os" if you want a singular.

[DeadManSleeping]

Except there are several statblocks for Behemoths throughout the Compass books.

Edit: Guidelines for building Fey Behemoths are in Graceful Wicked Masques. As far as I know there are no guidelines for making Primordial Behemoths.

Well, you know, there used to be thousands of the things, and they probably kept some alive for sport and entertainment. Sometimes there's more fun to be had than killing!

[Friv]

So, I know that in Exalted, there are things called behemoths. Created by Primordials or the Fey for the most part, they are weird, strange, and powerful. But, where are they detailed? I mean, they're often supposed to be fought. Were are example stats? Or rules for building your own?

I believe the rules for building behemoths are as follows:

Take a concept. Give it whatever dots and magic powers seem appropriate, throwing balance to the wind. You are done.

As unique, strange beings, they don't really have construction guidelines. There are one or two in each of the Terrestrial Compasses, and some of the Celestial Compasses.

[Indon]

So, I was thinking about it as I read the Return of the Scarlet Empress...

I've never read the scenario, but I imagine it'd be easy enough to invoke liberal application of Green Sun Prince to make the scenario more difficult, as well as more personal if an Infernal circle focused its' efforts on the characters.