General Exalted Discussion II: No Longer Mortal

[Kylarra]

I'd probably say Dragonblooded. You don't need to worry terribly about combos, flaring your anima banner doesn't immediately get you killed, and you don't have to feel as contrived as for why 5 of them are working together, fate aside.

[knightMARE]

What kind of exalt do people recommend for a character whose thing is "moving and attacking so fast that all you see is a blur, making quick, precise attacks before moving off again". I was thinking Solar with a bunch of athletics charms, or maybe Infernal with Adorjan charms..

[TheCountAlucard]

Eclipse Caste Solar with both.

Or even better, Moonshadow Caste Abyssal with all three.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Spoiler

Show

... How? On all accounts. How did the ST goof, which sounded awesome ?

In one game we suprised him and each PC started to scheme behind backs of the rest of the Circle. Power hungry gnats, as You could easily guess. Players had a lot more fun, while ST was distracted with how lightly we treated fact that each of our Characters was lying with straigh face, and how disturbed ST was when we "stunted" explainations to him about our not so nice act.

Long story short I wanted to became a dragon. Like one from D&D. ST was against it, preferring more "traditional" Exalted. Then I started to talk to some demons and how they have no moral objections to body-modifications.

We travelled to Malfeas, saw Ebon Dragon's new palace ... and DB among us was really suprised. Later we tried to track back the Empress with Loom (our circle consisted of the bunch from every possible type of exaltation, I were the group's strategist and also a mutant in X-men style, Lunar was a socialite(in short assasin), Solar were a nominal leader and absolutely unable to fight(try emulating bard with Solar charms), Siddie was party's tank and alvays botched Craft(Fate) rolls, Half-Elemental Dragon-Blood was a party's healer ... but she most often healed the victims of ours and preached to the masses.) but botched and got a bunch of nasty Pattern Bites. And Siddies kicked him from the Bureau of Destiny very hard, never to return.
He was back next week.

We went to Rathess, butchered our way in, conviced Raksha to kill off the Solar's retinue ... anyway after our passing Rathess was in even poorer shape than in the beggining. ST spammed a lot of rogue vine-gods at us too, but we were prepared greatly and Siddie remade them all into tons of starmetal. I really hate SMAs, by the way. I got new fangirl in the form of Poisoned Carmelian Blade. After some ... "sparring training" I really needed all the healing I could get.

And decided to never, ever fight fair with anyone.^^

Later our Siddie commisioned Gundam for himself, and paid a lot of bribes to be re-accepted into Bureau again. Meanwhile homeless gods of craft were hired to rebuild Orrery, so we can track Empress's wherabouts.

Meanwhile we used our Heavenly connections to hire big amounts of workless gods and whipped them into an army. Siddie's friends found out for him several bunches of ED's cultists and we made a mess of them. While we were making all out shadow-war against Ebon Dragon's minions, putting dents into his plans ... I think. Orrery was rebuilt and Siddie first time in his life didn't botched fate-related roll. He made the backward prognostic. And found out extact date when Empress dissapeared and that was it. Orrery broke.

How did you convince Oramus to relay a message into the past, which sounds unbelievable ?

We conviced Dream-Weaving Raksha to kick my character into one of Oramus's nightmares. I were sent with majority of Circle's artifacts and all Essence, but 3 motes, commited. Fortunately I held out and managed to dream-speak with Oramus, wich took about a month and my comatose wreck had to be kept alive against all odds. The lazy creeps cyborgized me to not have to wake me up and continued merry slaughter of Ebon Dragon's minions. And one day a demon of Oramus showed up and told them that I'm stuck and can't get out of Oramus's dream. And the demon had instructions from me.

Circle were to free Oramus out of his wings, and were given extra magical artefacts and each of them got an demon specie to boot. Predictibly Solar wanted harem of angel-chicks, I wanted harem of succubi(like the ones from Diablo), Lunar wanted some chibis that can merge with the host in some sort of DBZ Fusion, Siddie ... wanted demons that change into ton of magical equipment, and Dragon-Blood wanted some sort of tiny demons able to share essence with their host. She alvays complained that we had more essence ... and I never use it outside of attunement or Thaumaturgy, so my guy doesn't count. In short, her Essence shortages dissapeared completely with several tens of thousands of sand particle sized demons living on her skin.

Guys followed my plan.2 of Oramus's wings were officially, under Cecelyne's law, given to my guy and Siddie used SMAs in his Gundam to rip these two wings off Oramus. Later it was a piece of cake when the Yozi fainted from pain, I awoke and had the wings grafted to my magic armor. ST said that thanks to the succubi ministrations i lost 3 stamina permamently and 6 willpower. Fortunately I had XP to buy it back, and two N/A artifacts to boot ! When Oramus were slowly waking we used his demons, in Yozi's name of course, to untagle rest of his wings ... tearing them apart rather messily. Lastly Siddie stole Peach of Immortality and barrel of Celestial Vine to cheer up the pained Yozi. These two artifacts helped Oramus to recover some dignity and it is then when I asked for a favor. Yozi found it messy and amusing and relayed message into the past.

And that was end of the campaign, ST had enough. But in the next campaign we asked if we could start ... 2 years before Empress's dissaperance with some of Oramus's gifts. I wanted to be a dragon !

And exactly how disappointed was the ED really ?

I did it in the most badass, "balls of steel" style and laughed at him when he was killing me. Costed me all my WP, though to ignore all the pain nad stuff he did to make my Char cry like baby and beg. ST was showing us a lot of *.JPGs with how the ED was dissapointed. Good laugh it was.

Really, this I just got to hear...

Sure read the above, although it isn't as awesome when known. You have been warned.

[Drascin]

Yes. Their charms are made by the Maidens, not by themselves.

Everyone else can make custom charms.

Of course, Sidereals can make custom Sidereal Martial Arts.

This is a tad more restricting than it sounds, though, because Sidereal Martial arts are both hard as hell to homebrew correctly, seem to always require a full CMA style as prerequisite, and seem to almost always have pretty steep Essence requirements. Having never seen a game go beyond Essence 4, the existence of Sidereal Martial Arts does not exactly comfort me .

But yeah, what Tavar and Tonberrian said. Somehow, the "players can't make Sid Charms IC" seems to have been twisted into "NOBODY SHALL HOMEBREW SIDEREAL CHARMS ON PAIN OF DEATH" or something similar, given the usual reactions to people posting Sid charms in other forums...

[knightMARE]

Eclipse Caste Solar with both.

Or even better, Moonshadow Caste Abyssal with all three.

Didn't even think of Abyssals, heh. Ontop of that, are there any CMA's that go well with the concept?

[Tavar]

I think this was missed. in the shuffle.

Are their any firm rules regarding reflexive attacks? Or just what's in the Ink monkey charms that use them?

Didn't even think of Abyssals, heh. Ontop of that, are there any CMA's that go well with the concept?

I think there's one in GotMH: Luna. Crystal something or other.

[SurlySeraph]

@^: Crystal Chameleon. Its shtick is moving fast, and stealth via filling the battlefield with brightly colored clouds and suchlike so no one can pick you out. Basically Disco Ninja Style. I'm not a big fan of it, but some people like it.

Also, on Sid charms, note that the nice thing Sidereals get is that there's plenty of rules precedent for martial arts that give you abilities that seem like they should be normal charms rather than MA charms. Citrine Poxes of Contagion Style has some medical charms that are much better than actual Sidereal Medicine, because it's about disease. Throne Shadow Style has excellent training charms and stealth-related charms, because it's about doing Sidereal-ish things that aren't actually in the Sidereal charmset. Dreaming Pearl Courtesan has good social abilities and also lets you turn into a flying gazellefish, because it's about social interaction and dignified combat, and those things apparently imply "flying gazellefish" to the writers.

[Drascin]

Crystal Chameleon is in GttMH: Maidens, not Luna, but otherwise, what they said. And it's even one of the most mechanically sound MA styles (as in, it actually works as written without fixes. Yes, in Exalted MA styles, this is rare enough to be considered a particularly good plus ). I've seen it used to great effect. You should give up any pretense at passing unnoticed when using it, though - it's not called Disco Ninja Style for nothing

While we're talking about MA... I've been tempted lately to homebrew a Heavenly Dragon Style based on a certain character's signature style, but I'm just not certain it would fit very well. It's not trascendental and weird enough to be an SMA, and CMA are supposed to be a good deal weaker than Exalted Charms, while the Hiten Mitsurugi Ryu list of techniques includes, among other nastinesses, an automatic nine-attack flurry and an ultmate attack that screws you over royally if it hits, and screws you only a little less if you block it. So I dunno whether to try to start writing it or not bother...

(You know, thinking of it that series does have a lot of interesting styles to crib from. Saito's philosophy and style could certainly make for the kind of MA style that the more ruthless and fast Soulsteel Alchemicals would use...)

[Reynard]

It's not trascendental and weird enough to be an SMA, and CMA are supposed to be a good deal weaker than Solar Exalted Charms,

Fixed that for you. All CMAs were supposed to be balanced in power against the Lunar charmset.

I say supposed, because they're often nowhere near it, one one side or the other.


And, again, speaking of CMAs, I've been scratching my head trying to turn some of the D&D 3.5 Tome of Battle Disciplines into CMAs. I've got a couple of charms down for most of them, but can't really decide on one to focus on.

[The Rose Dragon]

Fixed that for you. All CMAs were supposed to be balanced in power against the Lunar charmset.

Or rather, slightly lower than the Lunar Charm set. More balanced against Alchemicals, in an ideal world, since Terrestrials, spirits and Dragon Kings can access it, who should not be as good as a Lunar in his focused field.

[Drascin]

Fixed that for you. All CMAs were supposed to be balanced in power against the Lunar charmset.

I say supposed, because they're often nowhere near it, one one side or the other.

Really? I've mostly heard they are supposed to be weaker than Lunar and Sidereal, but higher than Terrestrial.

And yeah, that's part of the problem - we don't have much in the way of baselines for comparison, no

As for the ToB disciplines - I'd focus on Tiger Claw first. Dual-wielding is sadly underrepresented in Exalted, and having more and better savage-type martial styles would make so many Full Moons happy campers

[Reynard]

Really? I've mostly heard they are supposed to be weaker than Lunar and Sidereal, but higher than Terrestrial.

And yeah, that's part of the problem - we don't have much in the way of baselines for comparison, no

As for the ToB disciplines - I'd focus on Tiger Claw first. Dual-wielding is sadly underrepresented in Exalted, and having more and better savage-type martial styles would make so many Full Moons happy campers

Yeah, that's one of the ones that I've made the most progress on. The issue with it is the main lines of attack in Tiger Claw are "Jump against their AC and get bonus damage" And "flurry like a madman."

There are about 5 maneuvers for each of them, but making charms of each would bloat the style too much. I could make one charm of each and use all of Tiger Claw's boosts and such for the rest of the style. Or make charms that get more powerful as you increase in Essence, but doing that in an MA strikes me as off.

But the real problem is working out how the leap attack charms would actually work.
Roll Str+Athletics against their Parry DV? Would likely never work.
Compare total Str+Athletics total (as jumping is normally calculated) against Parry DV? Seems a bit much.

Bleh.

[Drascin]

Don't just focus on the attacks - Martial Arts styles have a lot more that attacks and Tiger Claw does have sweet boosts. Let's just think what Tiger Claw is about: savagery, dual-wielding, death-of-a-thousand-cuts, and mobility through insane jumping capability (it's not a coincidence that a Tiger Claw boost is basically the same as a Solar Athletics Charm).

So, rather than convert each attack, let's keep the essence of the style. As I envision it... it probably begins with a Charm that helps with jumping and a charm that helps with dual-wielding, then each of these goes to their respective attack style (Death-From-Above and Dual-Madness Flurrying), then the Form, which could be some kind of "enter wild state of mind" with effects not unlike Blood in the Water or similar stances (say, each hit that causes at least 1 level of damage gives you bonuses for a few actions. Dynamic Form activated from wounding an enemy, of course), and then after Form some upgrade charms to the pre-form ones finishing in a crazy flurrying capstone. I dunno, that's just the first schematic that comes to mind. About nine or ten Charms in the tree, all told.

About the jumping attacks... well, the main effect of "Jump against AC" is that it's a simple way of making hitting much easier, because in D&D skills go much higher. So, instead of porting it directly, we could maybe roll with the "jumping leopard is hard to stop" vibe and play it as the jump making it harder to defend? Say, when you use the charm and jump, roll Strength+Athletics before rolling attack, and the number of successes becomes an external penalty to the opponent's DV for your attack? Again, dunno, just rattling what first comes to mind.

[Reynard]

Don't just focus on the attacks - Martial Arts styles have a lot more that attacks and Tiger Claw does have sweet boosts.

Oh I know. It's more that it has so many attacks that do similar things. I've got a scene-long charm that effectively gives you Scent. I'd say about 5 charms are finished, and 3 more are sketched out.

Let's just think what Tiger Claw is about: [snip]

Cool ideas, thanks. The TWF aspect is important, something which I had tried to help Solars with already*, but I agree that others need the help. Maybe I'll post what I've got so far in the Homebrew Forum later.

*Shameless plug.

[The Rose Dragon]

Guys! I need something to reinvigorate my appreciation for Exalted!

Maybe it's because it's been three years since I started playing it almost exclusively, but I'm kind of getting tired of the setting. And the mechanics. I like reading about them, but the thought of playing the game gets me slightly down, because I can no longer come up with stuff that looks like fun and would actually be fun or viable in Exalted. And heavily modifying the setting so things are fresher no longer looks as fun as it once did.

Basically, I've become cynical where playing Exalted is concerned. What do I do?

[Kyeudo]

Guys! I need something to reinvigorate my appreciation for Exalted!

Maybe it's because it's been three years since I started playing it almost exclusively, but I'm kind of getting tired of the setting. And the mechanics. I like reading about them, but the thought of playing the game gets me slightly down, because I can no longer come up with stuff that looks like fun and would actually be fun or viable in Exalted. And heavily modifying the setting so things are fresher no longer looks as fun as it once did.

Basically, I've become cynical where playing Exalted is concerned. What do I do?

Honestly, I understand where you are coming from. The longer the line goes, the more baggage the system picks up and it gets frustrating. I think its that the more stuff they fill in, the more things that they put in that bugs me. I hate the Daystar. I hate Lytek.

My way of coping is to ignore anything that bugs me.

[DeadManSleeping]

Guys! I need something to reinvigorate my appreciation for Exalted!

Maybe it's because it's been three years since I started playing it almost exclusively, but I'm kind of getting tired of the setting. And the mechanics. I like reading about them, but the thought of playing the game gets me slightly down, because I can no longer come up with stuff that looks like fun and would actually be fun or viable in Exalted. And heavily modifying the setting so things are fresher no longer looks as fun as it once did.

Basically, I've become cynical where playing Exalted is concerned. What do I do?

Try playing Exalted in Strands of Fate: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189785

It's a completely different type of mechanic that still works for Exalted, and you've got pretty free reign on setting when you don't have to deal with the rulebooks also dictating the setting. And the best part is that, because of the mechanics, things which were once rather non-viable in Exalted are totally doable. You get to try something fresh! I know I'd play one of these so I could actually play a Solar who summons sun-energy weapons and have it WORK without me investing a tonbunch of effort.

Other than that...TRY PLAYING SOMETHING ELSE. Seriously, there are so many other RPGs out there that you should give a good chance. I'd find my RPG life dreadfully dull if I were even a little system-exclusive. With flexibility, I can play in pretty much any setting, with pretty much any type of mechanic. High sci-fi space opera with a focus on finding new frontiers? Doable. No-fantasy alternate history politics game? I've still got options. Find something else that strikes your fancy and just do it. Maybe it'll be something close to Exalted in tone, or in mechanics. Maybe it'll be something completely different. It doesn't matter. Just play something else.

[The Rose Dragon]

The problem is finding someone who plays the systems I like that aren't Exalted or M&M. They tend to be so obscure and I can't find a recruiting game for any of them.

[Tavar]

Hasn't Lytek been in the setting for a long time? And isn't he pretty unobtrusive? I mean, I can kinda understand not liking the Daystar stuff, as it really changes a lot in the setting, even if I like it. But to me, Lytek's always seemed pretty tame/integral.

But, yeah, The Rose Dragon, variety is the spice of life, and if you eat your favorite food 24/7, you'll soon grow tired of it, if not actually hating it.

The problem is finding someone who plays the systems I like that aren't Exalted or M&M. They tend to be so obscure and I can't find a recruiting game for any of them.

Try making one, then. Or a thread in this section, about the games. Sometimes people just need a push.

[SurlySeraph]

Guys! I need something to reinvigorate my appreciation for Exalted!

What do you want to see in the setting that it doesn't have? Homebrew that. What does it have that you dislike? Think up something better.

The problem is finding someone who plays the systems I like that aren't Exalted or M&M. They tend to be so obscure and I can't find a recruiting game for any of them.

Try a new system? Try a new site with a wider variety of PbP games, because there are a fair number of PbP sites out there?

[Tavar]

So, I know there's some big difference between Terrestrial/Celestial Gods and some difference between 1s/2nd/3rd circle demons. Is it a mechanically clear line? Like, Essence X? Or is it more vague?

[Yuki Akuma]

It's more vague. First-circle demons tend not to go much higher than Essence 3, second-circle souls tend not to go higher than 5 or 6, and third-circle souls tend to be around 8 or 9. 10 if it's a fetich.

Terrestrial and Celestial are not measures of power - a Terrestrial god could have an Essence of 10, if his domain were suitably huge. A Celestial God can easily have an Essence of 1 if he's a very minor functionary.

[Lochar]

Terrestrial gods also tend to be gods of actual physical things. Celestial gods tend to have sway over the idea or ephemeral.

[Xefas]

The problem is finding someone who plays the systems I like that aren't Exalted or M&M. They tend to be so obscure and I can't find a recruiting game for any of them.

Would "In a Wicked Age" be one of them? I've been interested in this recently, as I think it'd be able to play in the Exalted setting without any homebrewing required.

The only problem being that its primary mechanic is largely incompatible with Play-by-Post (though it might be doable with agreeable folk). An IM or IRC game might work, though.

[Kyeudo]

Hasn't Lytek been in the setting for a long time? And isn't he pretty unobtrusive? I mean, I can kinda understand not liking the Daystar stuff, as it really changes a lot in the setting, even if I like it. But to me, Lytek's always seemed pretty tame/integral.

Lytek always seems to violate one of the basic principles of Exalted - that no one can stop an Exaltation from finding a host. The whole nonsense of Lytek having a cabinet where all Exaltations come back to and just sit and wait until Lytek cleans the memories off them and then gets an Incarnae to rubber stamp a form before he lets them back out bugs me. WHY DIDN'T THE PRIMORDIALS JUST ORDER LYTEK TO NOT LET THE EXALTATIONS OUT OF THEIR BOX? Instantaneous end to all endlessly reincarnating Exalted.

Now, I don't mind that there is a God of Exaltation. I don't mind if that god has some influence on the when, who, and how of Exaltation. What I mind is that Exaltation can be stopped if a single pencil-pushing bureaucrat decides to lock a single door. Exaltation is supposed to be a wild card, an uncontrollable, unpredictable factor that upsets the order of Creation just by its very nature.

[The Rose Dragon]

For one thing, Lytek wasn't around in the Time of Glory. There was another god who had the duties of handling Exaltations in the first years of the War, who was murdered by the Primordials. It didn't help their side any. For another, Lytek cannot control Exaltations. At best, what he does with them can be explained as a negotiation. The Exaltation waits, because it trusts Lytek to do his job right. For a third thing, Primordials cannot order gods to stop doing their jobs. Keeping the cycle of Exaltation intact is Lytek's job, therefore he cannot be told to stop it.

[Tavar]

Also, in the fluff, I thought it was Autochthon who did that. After the war, Lytek took over, as it wasn't considered as vital a duty.

[TheCountAlucard]

The whole nonsense of Lytek having a cabinet where all Exaltations come back to and just sit and wait until Lytek cleans the memories off them and then gets an Incarnae to rubber stamp a form before he lets them back out bugs me.

To my understanding, he actually can't hold them there; he just cleans the past memories off of them as best as he can and makes sure there's nothing glaringly-wrong with them before it has a chance to flit to a proper host.

WHY DIDN'T THE PRIMORDIALS JUST ORDER LYTEK TO NOT LET THE EXALTATIONS OUT OF THEIR BOX?

To be fair, wasn't Lytek appointed after the Primordial War?

EDIT: Double-Sidereal'd!

[Indon]

So, I know there's some big difference between Terrestrial/Celestial Gods and some difference between 1s/2nd/3rd circle demons. Is it a mechanically clear line? Like, Essence X? Or is it more vague?

Terrestrial/Celestial diety is about where you work - a God with a job or office in Heaven is Celestial. What dictates who has an office in Heaven (some gods have offices in heaven that they never use), is all politics. Generally, though, Celestial gods are more powerful as well as better connected.

There are also rogue deities that work in the Underworld who do not fit into this schema.

Lytek always seems to violate one of the basic principles of Exalted - that no one can stop an Exaltation from finding a host. The whole nonsense of Lytek having a cabinet where all Exaltations come back to and just sit and wait until Lytek cleans the memories off them and then gets an Incarnae to rubber stamp a form before he lets them back out bugs me. WHY DIDN'T THE PRIMORDIALS JUST ORDER LYTEK TO NOT LET THE EXALTATIONS OUT OF THEIR BOX? Instantaneous end to all endlessly reincarnating Exalted.

Firstly, the Primordials aren't very smart. Secondly, the Exaltations don't need Lytek to perform this function.

Consider that Abyssal exaltations without their Monstrances will function more like Solar exaltations, for instance - and it's not mentioned that Lytek ever gets them in that case. If Lytek tries to contain an Exaltation indefinitely (as opposed to merely the higher soul of an Exalt, which he does illegally have a couple of, which is an interesting plot point vis-a-vis extra potential Deathlords but I digress), it probably fails.