Warhammer 40K Tabletop X: "Everybody Expects The Inquisition!"

[crazedloon]

Is it really allowed to buy a Drop Pod for a squad that already has a Razorback? Seems odd to me, to say the least, but the way it's formulated in the German codex is beyond inconclusive...

yes at least as it is worded in english. The rhino and razorback is an ether/or and then there is a period. If the unit is 10 you can have the pod with no caveat from the previous 2 options. It also makes sense to me for the strategies I have suggested allowing you to make full use of the combat squading ability (and abusing drop pod assault )

[Winterwind]

yes at least as it is worded in english. The rhino and razorback is an ether/or and then there is a period. If the unit is 10 you can have the pod with no caveat from the previous 2 options. It also makes sense to me for the strategies I have suggested allowing you to make full use of the combat squading ability (and abusing drop pod assault )

That's the way it's formulated in German as well; I just wasn't sure whether that "or" was not meant to extend into the next sentence as well.

How does that work though? I mean, you have to place the unit and its dedicated transport on the table at the same time, but there is simply no way to do that with a Razorback and a Drop Pod...

[crazedloon]

How does that work though? I mean, you have to place the unit and its dedicated transport on the table at the same time, but there is simply no way to do that with a Razorback and a Drop Pod...

where are you getting that rule from? The only restrictions for this situation would be the combat squad rules which would mean you must declare the unit split before the game (since you are deploying half the unit) but the other half can come down in their dedicated transport (drop pod)

[Winterwind]

where are you getting that rule from? The only restrictions for this situation would be the combat squad rules which would mean you must declare the unit split before the game (since you are deploying half the unit) but the other half can come down in their dedicated transport (drop pod)

The rules for dedicated transports state that they always must be placed at the same time as the unit they were bought for. Page 67 in both the big and the small rulebook, the box at the bottom right.

Therefore, it is illegal to have half a unit come down in a Drop Pod - you can't have half the unit on the table and the other half not when you deploy them.

Since, in this case, the unit would have two dedicated transports - the Razorback and the Drop Pod - you would have to place the unit and both of its dedicated transports at the same time. Which is not possible. Hence my question how this is supposed to work.

I always thought a unit could have only one dedicated transport, but the rules do indeed not seem to have any such limitation.

[Klose_the_Sith]

you could if you scrape 35 points out of the list you can buy a drop pod for one of the Tac squads. This allows you to round up to 2 (iron clads) and the other pod is a tactical option as ether an objective denier (if empty) or a quick solution to a single tank (with combat sqauded melta) a last second objective taker (with any combat squad in there) and more. But most importantly it gives you 2 dreds turn 1

edit:more specifically you could drop the combi meltas, a single marine (and the melta gun) and get 2 flamer Ironclads and 3 drop pods. If you drop 1 heavy flamer you can get back 1 marine (an get a free flamer as an option in the pod) or a combi melta (for a 2 melta squad drop in the 3rd pod)

...



That is so happening

Although looking over it now, I think I'm better off replacing the Lascannons w/Missile Launchers and dropping the combi-meltas. Keeps the troop count up while putting less of a dint in my firepower and still maximising the Flameclads.

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HQ

Librarian 100
Null Zone, Avenger

Elites

Ironclad Dreadnought 185
Twin Heavy Flamers, Drop Pod

Ironclad Dreadnought 185
Twin Heavy Flamers, Drop Pod

Troops

Tactical Squad (10) 310
Melta Gun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant w/Melta Bombs
+ Razorback w/Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun
+ Drop Pod

Tactical Squad (10) 270
Melta Gun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant w/Bolter
+ Razorback w/Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun

Tactical Squad (10) 270
Melta Gun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant w/Bolter
+ Razorback w/Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun

Heavy Support

Predator 120
Autocannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons

Predator 120
Autocannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons

[crazedloon]

I think you are reading that rule wrong....

It only states that the unit which bought the vehicle (and thus it is their dedicated transport) can start in that vehicle but after the beginning of the game anyone can use it. It is the rule which keeps you from buying a drop pod for one unit and dropping another in it. I do not see any reference to being place together.

[Winterwind]

I think you are reading that rule wrong....

It only states that the unit which bought the vehicle (and thus it is their dedicated transport) can start in that vehicle but after the beginning of the game anyone can use it. It is the rule which keeps you from buying a drop pod for one unit and dropping another in it. I do not see any reference to being place together.

In the box, first sentence of the second paragraph (translating now): "The only limitation of dedicated transport vehicles is that they may only be deployed together with the unit (plus character models that joined that unit) they were bought for.". I've always heard from everyone, including GW employees, that this meant that it was not allowed to, for example, deploy a transport but keep the unit it was for in reserve, or vice versa.

Could someone rules-savvy please clarify this?

[EndlessWrath]

Spoiled Winter's Quote for space

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The rules for dedicated transports state that they always must be placed at the same time as the unit they were bought for. Page 67 in both the big and the small rulebook, the box at the bottom right.

Therefore, it is illegal to have half a unit come down in a Drop Pod - you can't have half the unit on the table and the other half not when you deploy them.

Since, in this case, the unit would have two dedicated transports - the Razorback and the Drop Pod - you would have to place the unit and both of its dedicated transports at the same time. Which is not possible. Hence my question how this is supposed to work.

I always thought a unit could have only one dedicated transport, but the rules do indeed not seem to have any such limitation.

I read the rule your talking about.. what it says is "When the transport is deployed it can only carry the unit it was bought for (+ an independent character) So I'm not sure where you're getting the limitation that it HAS to carry the full squad. My understanding of combat squads is that at deployment (whether you deploy them in reserves or not) you say they'll be separate units. Separate units that share the slot on force organization.
If I'm wrong on this.. and you can't have the squads separate when deploying with a transport (what I mean is what you said, the squad has to be in the transport together at deployment) Than the other options is deploying the squads and having them OUT of the transport... then beginning of game, 1 squad enters and moves with the transport.

Didn't know you can buy separate transports for the squad though.. I'm not sure I think that works.. There's a special note for drop pods since it requires ten models to be a choice, you can combat squads when it drops. The wording is sketchy though so idk... but I'm pretty sure you can only take one.
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Sidenote.. I've been running Cato + 5 tactical squads and a Landraider with Chronus and MM/ H-killer / and stormbolter upgrades. Even though its a massive point drop.. its still awesome.

[crazedloon]

not to sound like an *** but your translation is wrong it should read

"The only limitation of dedicated transport is that when deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters).

The intention of that box is that a dedicated transport can only ever have the unit (and any characters which have joined that unit) start inside. After that however anyone can get in. But it does not state that they must start in or be deployed at the same time. If you wording were true there would be no need for the clarification in the FAQ of drop pods dropping empty.

Also the rules about drop pods effecting combat squads are just a rule which allows you to split later in the game than you normally have to (i.e. when the pod drops) You can choose to split earlier and deploy normally. In this case you are choosing to split and have 1/2 arrive in the drop pod and the other deploy normally.

edit:

However on further reading of the FAQ I will have to eat some of my words. You can not deploy half a unit in the pod as you can only combat squad when deployed. There fore you just have an empty pod which is still useful for objective contesting (and drawing anti tank weapons away from your ironclads )

That being said I would swap a missle for a multi melta and run that squad in the pod with the librarian. give the librarian force dome (and avenger) and use that squad as an objective taker. They come down rapid fire their bolters (multi melta gets a pistol shot) and get a 3+/5+ if they are not killed than you have a big gun to deal with pretty much any threat and a full squad.

[EndlessWrath]

not to sound like an *** but your translation is wrong it should read

I was paraphrasing

The intention of that box is that a dedicated transport can only ever have the unit (and any characters which have joined that unit) start inside. After that however anyone can get in. But it does not state that they must start in or be deployed at the same time. If you wording were true there would be no need for the clarification in the FAQ of drop pods dropping empty.

Also the rules about drop pods effecting combat squads are just a rule which allows you to split later in the game than you normally have to (i.e. when the pod drops) You can choose to split earlier and deploy normally. In this case you are choosing to split and have 1/2 arrive in the drop pod and the other deploy normally.

Yes. This is what I was getting at.

edit:

However on further reading of the FAQ I will have to eat some of my words. You can not deploy half a unit in the pod as you can only combat squad when deployed. There fore you just have an empty pod which is still useful for objective contesting (and drawing anti tank weapons away from your ironclads )

See this always seemed odd to me. I always figured you were deploying the unit into reserves. That way it was possible to say... use a scouts ability to outflank (scout rule), separate the squad via combat squads, have one group scout out with one group outflanking. (I do this with tactical squads... so Its not good to hear I can't . Referee's felt that I could...) It seems odd that I can't. I am deploying both squads.. one is deployed into reserves and the other is deployed on the field with a transport..

That being said I would swap a missle for a multi melta and run that squad in the pod with the librarian. give the librarian force dome (and avenger) and use that squad as an objective taker. They come down rapid fire their bolters (multi melta gets a pistol shot) and get a 3+/5+ if they are not killed than you have a big gun to deal with pretty much any threat and a full squad.

This is an interesting strategy, I might try this out.
-Wrath

[crazedloon]

wasn't talking about your translation, I just didn't add winterwinds quote to my post. Sorry for the confusion.

The problem with combat squading is that you deploy 1 unit and than it splits. It is the reason that you can put 2 tac squads on the table in dawn of war and split them into 4 units, because they are still the same "unit." You can not deploy half a unit. Pretty much winterwind's misinterpretation of the transport rules ironically is how combat squads work

[Winterwind]

Spoiled Winter's Quote for space


I read the rule your talking about.. what it says is "When the transport is deployed it can only carry the unit it was bought for (+ an independent character) So I'm not sure where you're getting the limitation that it HAS to carry the full squad. My understanding of combat squads is that at deployment (whether you deploy them in reserves or not) you say they'll be separate units. Separate units that share the slot on force organization.
If I'm wrong on this.. and you can't have the squads separate when deploying with a transport (what I mean is what you said, the squad has to be in the transport together at deployment) Than the other options is deploying the squads and having them OUT of the transport... then beginning of game, 1 squad enters and moves with the transport.

My point was not that it has to carry the whole squad - it definitely doesn't have to do that - my point was that when you place a unit on the table, you have to place the entire unit on the table. That is, you can't deploy half the unit and keep the other half in reserve. You can place the transport and the unit apart from each other, but you have to do so at the same time.

At least, that was my understanding so far, and what every single person I've ever talked about WH40k with has told me. Of course, they all used the same (apparently faulty) German translation...

not to sound like an *** but your translation is wrong

Well, that translation was definitely the correct translation of the German text I had in front of me; the fault lies with whomever translated it originally from English into German. It wouldn't be the first time that errors crept in during this translation; I've forgotten what it was, but I once ran across a far more egregious example.

"The only limitation of dedicated transport is that when deployed it can only carry the unit it was selected with (plus any independent characters).

Well, that's perfectly clear. Thanks.

It's also very definitely not what the German rules say. The funny thing is, as I said, every single person I ever talked to believes the rules are as I stated them, which leads me to think that because of this mistranslation, WH40k is actually played with different rules when it comes to this in Germany.

The intention of that box is that a dedicated transport can only ever have the unit (and any characters which have joined that unit) start inside. After that however anyone can get in. But it does not state that they must start in or be deployed at the same time. If you wording were true there would be no need for the clarification in the FAQ of drop pods dropping empty.

Good point. I never thought of that, but yeah, that's the ultimate proof.

See this always seemed odd to me. I always figured you were deploying the unit into reserves. That way it was possible to say... use a scouts ability to outflank (scout rule), separate the squad via combat squads, have one group scout out with one group outflanking. (I do this with tactical squads... so Its not good to hear I can't . Referee's felt that I could...) It seems odd that I can't. I am deploying both squads.. one is deployed into reserves and the other is deployed on the field with a transport..

By my understanding, "deploying" refers specifically to the act of placing a unit on the table (or at least the transport it is in). Units in reserves are units that haven't been deployed yet.

[Klose_the_Sith]

That being said I would swap a missle for a multi melta and run that squad in the pod with the librarian. give the librarian force dome (and avenger) and use that squad as an objective taker. They come down rapid fire their bolters (multi melta gets a pistol shot) and get a 3+/5+ if they are not killed than you have a big gun to deal with pretty much any threat and a full squad.

I've run squads like this before, but I've always gone for a Heavy Bolter/Flamer setup with a Powerfist Sergeant, seeing as objective squatters fall into one of two categories

1) Infantry
2) Static transports

I either force disruption on their plan, or I rush/dakka them off the board.

But either way, that isn't what this list is about. This list is about cramming as much hybrid agression as I can into 1500 and the triple Lasplas/Missile squads do a better job of it from where I'm sitting.

[EndlessWrath]

wasn't talking about your translation, I just didn't add winterwinds quote to my post. Sorry for the confusion.

The problem with combat squading is that you deploy 1 unit and than it splits. It is the reason that you can put 2 tac squads on the table in dawn of war and split them into 4 units, because they are still the same "unit." You can not deploy half a unit. Pretty much winterwind's misinterpretation of the transport rules ironically is how combat squads work

See... But that's where I think it's stupid. I feel like it should be people deploying into reserve. I don't think that's such a large game-changing option, but it makes sense to me. Why shouldn't a squad which is smart enough tactically to handle the battle separately, deploy separately.. one in reserve and one in play.. It just seems like a dumb rule to me.. and I don't just say that because I play Space Marines I'd let any other race do something similar (or have a separate ability hinging on "deploy"). Although I'll probably eat my words because I'm sure there's some extremely powerful ability that buffs the squad upon deployment or some such thing.. but that's what the F.A.Q and addendum are for. I don't see why that wouldn't work and the wording would allow you to play both a rhino/razorback + droppod...

[Tarinaky]

How do you Combat Squad Assault Marines who choose to Deep Strike?

Do you Combat Squad at the end of deployment and then roll reserves for the two teams seperately? (How I've been playing it)

[EndlessWrath]

How do you Combat Squad Assault Marines who choose to Deep Strike?

Do you Combat Squad at the end of deployment and then roll reserves for the two teams seperately? (How I've been playing it)

See this is my point... I play it they are two separate units because you deploy reserves.. but apparently that's wrong. Perhaps they work similar to drop pods.. or worse... because they deep strike they don't get the chance to combat squad. Which doesn't make sense to me.

-Wrath

[crazedloon]

This list is about cramming as much hybrid agression as I can into 1500 and the triple Lasplas/Missile squads do a better job of it from where I'm sitting.

I assumed as much,
-the multi-melta/melta gun give the squad the mech threat
-the bolters/avenger give you the troop threat.

The squad (if deployed out of the drop pod) will easily be in multi-melta range of any of your opponents squatting tanks (which can be a problem if they are hidden well) and thus can easily take advantage of that Str 8+ 2d6. Also the squad does not need the extra range provided by the missile option.

The other nice thing about running the squad out of the pod is it gives you the option to combat squad (meltas in 1 and bolters/librarian in the other) to make it harder to kill the unit (they need at least 2 units shooting/assaulting them now to remove them) or to increase your target options (melta hit tanks librarian and crew hunt troops)

edit:
as for assault squads you roll for the whole unit. Than when you go to deploy them via deep strike rule you choose if you wish to combat squad. Once you have made that decision you can deploy them as you wish noting the fact they need not be placed in the same location.

[WeLoveFireballs]

I recently became interested in squats and more recently found an official codex I think will work for them. Believe it or not: Witch Hunters!
They are the only non SM army with access to bolter and Power Armor Technology and plus all I need to do is rename the acts of faith to the Engineer's bag of tricks.

Hand of the Emperor becomes: Stop! Drop! Roll! IMPACT!
Divine Guidance becomes: Laser Sights
The Passion becomes: Stims!
Light of the Emperor becomes: Oaths you have taken!...
Spirit of the Martyr becomes: Force Field Generator Online!

For models I plan to harvest armor bitz and boltguns from the SM battleforce and combine them with the Dwarf Battleforce (the organ gun and Rhino could make a decent Exorcist Tank). And I had an Idea for a penitent Engine crewed by Slayers....

[Fcannon]

How do you Combat Squad Assault Marines who choose to Deep Strike?

Do you Combat Squad at the end of deployment and then roll reserves for the two teams seperately? (How I've been playing it)

GW ruled "squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads" in the FAQ

[nolispe]

Is a Tau army that refuses to take mecha (suits) viable?

[EndlessWrath]

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I recently became interested in squats and more recently found an official codex I think will work for them. Believe it or not: Witch Hunters!
They are the only non SM army with access to bolter and Power Armor Technology and plus all I need to do is rename the acts of faith to the Engineer's bag of tricks.

Hand of the Emperor becomes: Stop! Drop! Roll! IMPACT!
Divine Guidance becomes: Laser Sights
The Passion becomes: Stims!
Light of the Emperor becomes: Oaths you have taken!...
Spirit of the Martyr becomes: Force Field Generator Online!

For models I plan to harvest armor bitz and boltguns from the SM battleforce and combine them with the Dwarf Battleforce (the organ gun and Rhino could make a decent Exorcist Tank). And I had an Idea for a penitent Engine crewed by Slayers....

Spoiled for space...
This sounds awesome! definitely let me know how this goes. We have a lot of people doing "counts as" armies and modeled armies. The Manager of the store I play at runs a Mech guard army.. but with Orks. Most of the tanks are kustom built. Another guy runs Tomb Kings as necrons, but that's kind of expected. And my other friend has a "Sisters of battle/Gray knights army" which... is basically a Tau force with "chameleon suits". They have the guns and everything. I think my favorite was a D&D mini he made if a knight errant with a shield and sword... as a shield drone.

EDIT:

Is a Tau army that refuses to take mecha (suits) viable?

well... that kind of depends on what you want to do with it. Firewarriors have the best Rapid fire gun in the game... But kroot are terribad. Only good use as a speed bump.. and you can do the same with piranha drone drops. I suppose it could be a strong enough list to play if you took hammerheads and were willing to use lots of drones. I'm not super familiar with tau codex.. but if your leader isn't a suit does that mean he has to be the ethereal? I don't know if there is a 3rd option...

It also depends on what game mode, terrain, and what army your facing.. But honestly .. why would you want to take that kind of list? The mech suits are by far one of the best units (if not the best) in tau. The Jet packs and massive firepower are ridiculous enough as is, let alone the ability to target separately.

-Wrath

[nolispe]

Thanks!
Yeah, mech suits are powerful. But I just don't like the flavor - for me Tau are about actually being efficient, and fighting like you care about your soliders. For me, mechanised suits just feel stupid - if I wanted to play an army with giant mecha, I would play imperial guard or something. Tau, for me, are sane people thrust into a crazy world. And if they have too mind control and or forcibly sterilize a few planets, that just makes them easier to empathise with. Make sense? What I was thinking was a bunch of firewarriors and pathfinders, with Hammerheads as railgun support. Is it doable, and if so, what should I be doing?

[EndlessWrath]

Thanks!
Yeah, mech suits are powerful. But I just don't like the flavor - for me Tau are about actually being efficient, and fighting like you care about your soliders. For me, mechanised suits just feel stupid - if I wanted to play an army with giant mecha, I would play imperial guard or something. Tau, for me, are sane people thrust into a crazy world. And if they have too mind control and or forcibly sterilize a few planets, that just makes them easier to empathise with. Make sense? What I was thinking was a bunch of firewarriors and pathfinders, with Hammerheads as railgun support. Is it doable, and if so, what should I be doing?

Hey, This is your army, you don't need to take things you don't want . That being said...
Hammerheads would be necessary (IMO) for the extra firepower. Also you need to keep tau tactics in mind. The Jet pack suits have the ability to outmaneuver the enemy, staying out of line of fire if necessary. This is a useful tool.. without it.. you'll be stuck footslogging or having a transport.. Or.. your firewarriors will be sharpshooting but forced to stand still. Who knows. Pathfinders are good (IMO). Devilfish transport with them, scout ahead, drop them off and put the devilfish in a way that the enemy can't easily get to your pathfinders while they snipe the hell out of the enemy. Kroot might be helpful in this army, as they infiltrate I believe.. you can use them to distract the enemy and assault, then back out of assault. Tie up the enemy then run off You'll still have a good amount of trouble with Drop pods (tau always do). Just remember to keep your tau out of assault and keep them shooting. Prioritize targets ... but not just based on how dangerous or valuable they are... Base it on where they'll go and what they'll hit next, and on how close they are to doing that.

Firewarriors/ Pathfinders / Drones/ Devilfish/ Hammerheads are your friends at this point. I don't know how to help with your HQ choice... I am not a fan of the Ethereals. But to each his own. Use Hammerheads as anti tank while the Pathfinders and firewarriors hide behind your drones. Yay for a 4+ cover save
Wrath

[Renegade Paladin]

Thanks!
Yeah, mech suits are powerful. But I just don't like the flavor - for me Tau are about actually being efficient, and fighting like you care about your soliders. For me, mechanised suits just feel stupid - if I wanted to play an army with giant mecha, I would play imperial guard or something.

Funny, if I wanted to play an army with giant mecha, I'd play Tau, because they have the giant mecha. If you want an efficient army using war machines that wouldn't fall apart in five minutes under realistic battlefield conditions, just run a Guard regiment originating from a civilized world (as opposed to a death world/hive world/Cadia), don't take Commissars, fluff them however you like, and call it a day.

[Winterwind]

So, as promised, after some delay:

Once in a Blue Moon - the Battles of Craftworld Isil-Luin
Episode One: Fallen Brethren
"The worst thing about having prophetic powers - you can never claim you had no idea what you were getting yourself into afterwards..." - Aurellien Dreamsong, Farseer of Isil-Luin

Prologue
That the mon-keigh had set down on the maiden world, and had ignored all of our demands to leave it was bad, but tolerable. Biel-Tann may have so little self-esteem they need to start slapping semi-intelligent monkeys around over every world that once belonged to the Eldar, but we have better ways to waste our time than battling over a world we have no intentions of colonizing at this time anyway. Like, you know, trying to make our dying species proliferate again.

That the mon-keigh immediately started up massive mining operations, polluting the atmosphere and disfiguring the world's pristine beauty was worse, but we could have dealt with it; by the time we were ready to go there, we would have the means to restore it, without any doubt, and judging by their progress they would probably end up exterminating themselves by then anyway. How come we are the species that's dying out again?

But that they had put a corrupt worshiper of Her-Who-Thirsts into the office of governor and refused to believe our warnings of the seed of Chaos right in their midst was too much to bear. Call it a pet peeve, but we have a bit of a problem with people worshiping Slaanesh on our own Warp-damned worlds!

As chance would have it, our attack coincided with a raid by our dark brethren. We didn't even want to know what they were doing there, but they were all too happy to tell us anyway. I'll be scrubbing out my brain with wraithbone for the next century or two, maybe it will make the memory go away again. I can only hope.

Repulsive as they were to us, they remained our people; while on a better occasion we might have fought them just for their vile way's sake, against the forces of the mon-keigh and in opposition of Chaos we might as well stand united. And so we coordinated our plans and began our assault...

Forces
It was a 2v2 Annihilation game with 3,000 points per side; my Eldar alongside a Dark Eldar force against two Imperial Guard armies. Unfortunately, we only got three turns each before our opponents had to leave (Imperial Guard shooting phases. Take. Frakking. Forever. )

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My forces were:
Eldar of Isil-Luin:

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HQ
Farseer (Aurellien Dreamsong) - 178 Points
- Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune, Eldar Jetbike

ELITES
Fire Dragons (x10) - 192+130 Points
- Exarch, Dragon Breath, Crack Shot, Tank Hunters
+ Wave Serpent ('Fireheart') with Twin-Linked Eldar Missile Launchers and Spirit Stones

TROOPS
Pathfinders (x7) - 168 Points

Pathfinders (x7) - 168 Points

Guardian Jetbikes (x6) - 205 Points
- Shuriken Cannon (x2)
- Warlock on Jetbike, Singing Spear, Embolden

Guardian Jetbikes (x6) - 152 Points
- Shuriken Cannon (x2)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Fire Prism ('Herald of the First Beginning') - 170 Points
- Shuriken Cannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones

Fire Prism ('Requiem of the Last Ending') - 170 Points
- Shuriken Cannon, Holo-field, Spirit Stones

Total: 1533
(my ally saw no good way to spend his last 35 points and asked me to spent those instead, hence the odd number)

The forces of my ally, as far as I remember:
Dark Eldar:

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Lelith Hesperax, with the Wyches

Archon (with dustblade, shadowfield, webway portal focus, maybe more), with the Inccubi

~9 Inccubi, in a Raider

~12 Cabalite Warriors

10 Wyches

~7 Hellions

And the forces of our enemies; might not be entirely accurate, it was such a huge ton of models I'm bound to be forgetting something.

Imperial Guard (both armies together):

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Commissar Yarrick

Colonel Straken

Lord-Commissar

Company Command Squad of some kind, with a whole ton of very different models; Yarrick and Straken were in there, too. Must have included a Medic, as they all had FNP.

3 Ogryns

10 Stormtroopers, two flamers, vox, maybe more

10 Stormtroopers, two flamers, vox, maybe more

5-6 units of 10 Veterans each, all with carapace armour and varying equipment, mostly flamers (including heavy flamers; I was rather shocked to find out this was possible, I mean, even Space Marines require Terminator armour to carry heavy flamers, but mere flimsy humans can take it just like that, too? What the Warp?! ).

Two units of I think Veterans (might have been regular Infantry squads instead though), one with a Heavy Bolter, one with a Lascannon

Leman Russ

Leman Russ Vanquisher, commanded by Pask

Leman Russ Vanquisher

Leman Russ Punisher

Basilisk

Turn I - Next Time, Run Faster

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Before the first turn:

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The mon-keigh were frantically scrambling around and digging in as our forces descended from the sky upon them, guns blazing.

The Imperial tanks on the right flank didn't look like they took kindly to space-elves around here, and I didn't feel like losing my favourite toys to a tank phalanx just yet, so my Fire Prisms veered off to the left, hiding behind the Fortress of Redemption and the forest respectively; only the Fireheart, the Fire Dragons' personal transport, cheerfully dashed towards the tank formation at maximum speed to teach them not to play with fire. At her side, the Raider of our dark brethren glided noiselessly and released its load of Inccubi, ready to unleash sweet delicious overkill on the Veteran formations ahead. The Hellions, screaming wildly, followed in tow.

The Dark Eldar Warriors, sulking over being left behind, spread out on the Thunderbolt wreckage to mope and write poems about how life is only pain. Which, to be fair, is quite accurate as far as Dark Eldar go.

The jetbikes scattered around the Fire Prisms, preparing to finish off whichever infantry formations the heavy tanks decided to vaporise first. However, in a sudden moment of irresolution, the Fire Prisms changed their targets - the Herald of the First Beginning found a hole in the forest, just big enough to direct its focused energy beam straight into the prismatic matrix of the Requiem of the Last Ending, which unleashed a blinding blast of pure, incandescent light into the front of the Vanquisher tank ahead.

The mon-keigh rejoiced when they found the Vanquisher still standing (if sporting a massive gaping hole in its front armour now - if you ask me, it only served to improve its appearance). When they realized they couldn't get any response from the tank anymore though, their joy evaporated just as quickly as the Vanquisher's crew had, the warmachine now just a useless, smoldering heap of metal.

The Pathfinders began to thin down the Stormtroopers on the right a bit, while the other squad targeted the Ogryns. Which proved to be a dumb move, inspired mostly by me thinking I should use my guns against whatever they were effective against and other guns weren't, failing to realize the Ogryns wouldn't likely play much of a role in this game, while the infantry much closer to the front - would. And their shooting proved very unlucky anyway...

The Jetbikes were luckier, thinning down the Stormtroopers ahead, though the mon-keigh armour absorbed the majority of the shuriken barrage, before they retreated behind the calmingly massive shape of the Fire Prisms.

The Inccubi sprinted ahead, towards the fearful humans. For a very, very slow definition of sprinting anyway, that bears more resemblance to "slowly stumbled in their general direction". Still, they were almost on top of the Imperial Guard troopers now, just a tiny sliver of rough ground between them and their prey.

So obviously, their charge failed.

To this day, we haven't been able to figure out what malady befell the children of the Dark Phoenix that caused them to stumble around like this in confusion; maybe they felt the nearby presence of the Fire Dragons and were torn between their orders and their urge to hunt Aspect Warriors.

We'll never know, as the only ones who might have had an answer were turned into a crater, as the vast majority of Imperial tanks and forces opened up with a massive barrage upon them. At the end, only the Archon remained standing, looking rather dazed to have lost his retinue so quickly, but still protected by the powerful unlight shielding of his Shadowfield.

One more Veteran unit still had not opened fire; they raised their lasguns and unleashed a hail of fire upon the unfortunate Dark Eldar leader.

The very first lasbolt that was on target broke straight through the Shadowfield.

The Archon was turned into an unsavory mess of punctured flesh, and countless worlds in the galaxy could sleep soundly from then on.

Further explosions tore through the ranks of the Hellions, killing a fair part of the squad; a few anti-tank weapons were fired at the Fire Prisms, but missed; a hit erupted against the Fireheart's protective shielding, stunning the crew, but with the silent murmur of voices unheard in millennia, the soulstones flared up and took over control over the Wave Serpent. The Stormtroopers opened up with high-energy fire against the Jetbikes ahead of them. Farseer Aurellien gritted his teeth as a lasbolt exploded straight on the runic armour protecting his chest, but the runes easily warded off the attack and left the Farseer unharmed. "That wasn't so bad, now, was it?", he asked, clapping the Warlock at his on the shoulder, and the Warlock's head fell off, cleanly sheared off by a lucky lasbolt hit against his neck, in spite of the Farseer's protective powers. Other than that, the losses were minimal though on the Eldar side.

Turn II - Fight Fire With Fire

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Before the second turn:

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I really couldn't make up my mind where to direct the Fireheart and the Fire Dragons inside. On the left side, there was the Leman Russ, sending powerful blasts with its Battle Cannon, which I would have loved to see silenced, and perhaps I could have had the Wave Serpent block the way for the Ogryns stationed nearby and saved the Fire Dragons from being assaulted, most other infantry formations that could have posed a danger perhaps unable to follow me across the rough ground. On the right side, there were the Basilisk and the Vanquisher on the hill, but too far away to reach at cruise speed, preventing me from releasing the Aspect Warriors this turn. Finally, on the right side as well, but much closer, was the Punisher (who would likely shoot the Fire Dragons to pieces if they left their transport and directed their fire against anything else); this one was easily reachable at lower speeds, but left the Dragons exposed to vast numbers of the Imperial army.

Finally, I decided to try and reduce the fire they might be exposed to by ordering the Fireheart to tank shock the Stormtroopers and the Veteran formation right next to them, carrying it as far as possible while still allowing the Fire Dragons to exit and destroy the Punisher. Unfortunately, both infantry units retained their discipline and simply regrouped.

The Jetbikes rose up and flew over the Fire Prisms to get a clean shot against the advancing human infantry hordes again. The Pathfinders remained stationary; if they felt any kind of distress because of how close the enemy had already gotten to them, they didn't show it outwardly. What remained of the Hellions wheeled around and raced towards the big fortress, in an attempt to intercept the humans closing in on their non-fallen brethren.

Lelith Hesperax and her drug-crazed followers indignantly stepped onto the battlefield; the humans had ruined the intended flashy entry via Webway Portal they had intended by killing that useless Archon, forcing them to walk. How dared they? Didn't they know artists of murder when they saw them?

At least Lelith had no intention of walking; she split from the unit and got into the Raider, which had dashed back from where it had just delivered the Archon and his Inccubi to their doom; alas, there wasn't enough space for her retinue to come with her.

Between the Pathfinders and the Jetbikes, the Stormtroopers on the left flank were annihilated. The Fire Prisms started to rain death upon the approaching Veteran formations; one scattered wildly off-target and only killed some unimportant officer of Yarrick's and Straken's staff, but the other tore a big hole into the infantry formation, further followed up by the second Jetbike unit.

The Fire Dragons aimed at the Punisher and opened fire.

You can imagine I was both a bit perplexed and dismayed when all I got for my efforts was a single penetration.

It proved enough though, as it tore right into the fuel tank of the warmachine. With a booming thunder, the tank exploded, shrapnel tearing the closest Stormtrooper to shreds. The Pathfinders on the nearby tower followed up with further fire against the unfortunate squad, thinning their numbers down to half of the squad's original size.

The Imperial Guard didn't wait long for vengeance for their lost Punisher though. No less than three squads opened up with multiple flamers and lasguns from point-blank range against the unfortunate Firedragons.

I'm told that "Fried Dragon" is a popular fast food snack on that world these days. The main ingredients are grox meat and promethium.

A Veteran unit invaded the fortress and, after a surprisingly ineffective blast from their heavy flamer, charged at the Pathfinders in the tower above, wiping them out.

On the left flank, the lascannon team in the far back finally managed to score a hit against the Requiem; it only managed to stun the crew though, and the vessel's soulstones immediately took over. The entire fire of this wing of the Imperial army managed to drop only few of the Jetbikes, the vast majority of the fire dispersed ineffectively by the jetbikes' armoured frames.

Fate was less friendly to the Eldar on the right flank - the last pieces of the Hellions were blasted apart, huge explosions from the tank and artillery batteries tore the Wyches to shreds without exception, and Lelith's Raider was shot down, fortunately leaving the Imperials without any unspent dakka to shoot the Wych queen as well.

Turn III - Fallen Brethren

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Before the third turn:

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By this point, all that was left of our dark brethren was a meager unit of Caballite Warriors and Lelith Hesperax herself; all others had fallen. Well, fallen again, I guess, albeit quite literally this time.

The left Eldar flank fell back a bit, to gain more distance from the closing in humans; the Fireheart, now bereft of the Aspect Warriors it had carried to nothing but their doom set out upon a course of vengeance, boosted right above the astonished humans, and set down right beside the Basilisk, twisting south to present the humans no approach to its vulnerable rear. Lelith sprinted towards the closest Veteran squad, with murder in her eyes.

Between the roaring blast the Herald unleashed against the nearest big Veteran concentration and the hail of shuriken fire from the jetbikes, one of the Veteran squads was utterly obliterated, while the other was dropped to just one single warp-damned soldier. One. Gah.

The Pathfinders on the right flank had similar success - the Stormtrooper sergeant was quite astonished when suddenly, all members of his squad dropped dead with holes in their foreheads simultaneously. He turned around and fled.

The Fireheart's turret twisted right and fired a krak missile directly into the Basilisk's ammo chamber. It was rewarded by a blooming mushroom cloud and a satisfyingly large crater where the artillery tank had been; moreover, the shrapnel from the explosion tore the Stormtrooper sergeant, who was just finding out that this really was not his day, to pieces.
(not that it made a difference, as he would have run off the table when our opponent's turn began anyway)

At some point, one further Veteran formation was destroyed... I have to ashamedly admit, I can't quite recall how and by whom. I think it was on the right side and killed by the fire from the Caballite Warriors throughout the three turns; it may be I'm forgetting about another Veteran formation on the left killed by my Fire Prisms and Jetbikes instead. In any case, we killed one more thing somewhere, somehow, in there.

Meanwhile, Lelith Hesperax successfully charged at the closest Veteran unit (which also happened to be the one accompanied by the Lord Commissar. I beg your forgiveness for the tactical overlay not displaying that; I blame some fluctuation in the hololithic matrix, and most definitely not me completely forgetting about him ). Blades blurred as she performed pirouettes and strikes that would have broken a human body trying to perform them; the guardsmen just stared, bedazzled and terrified.

Then they realized that for all the show, they still all had all of their limbs and heads firmly attached to their bodies, and one of them clobbered Lelith.

(Yes, she didn't kill even a single one of them, and lost one Wound in the process. She stayed in place though.)

Yarrick's squad and the Ogryns advanced against the Jetbikes and, in a hail of fire, managed to destroy the secondary Jetbike unit. The Veteran squad that had just triumphed over the Pathfinders charged the Requiem, and a lucky hit by the sergeant's powerfist shattered its prismatic matrix, left the vessel itself still intact though. The Herald was shaken by a strike of the lascannon, but remained unscathed by all anti-tank fire directed its way otherwise. On the other side, the only Veteran squad close enough to follow the Fireheart charged at it, meltaguns blazing, and tore its main engine to shreds, sending the Wave Serpent plummeting to the ground, and then charged at it, meltabombs tearing off the turret with the missile launcher. The structural integrity of the hull remained intact though.

Lelith, ashamed of her earlier performance, went for something less showy and more effective this time. She ripped some four or five Veterans to shreds, while evading all counter-attacks by their fellows and the Lord-Commissar; under the guidance of the grisly old dog, they refused to buckle though, and the fight still went on.

Far Seer Aurellien surveyed the battlefield. They had inflicted severe damage upon the mon-keigh forces, and though every single Eldar lost hurt dearly, their own losses were still tolerable. However, almost all of their fallen brethren had truly fallen now, and the remaining human forces were preparing to focus entirely on the Eldar strike force now. It was time to withdraw for now, and hope this warning had sufficed.

(Our opponents had to leave, so we ended the game here, after each side had had three turns)

Conclusion

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After the third turn:

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At the end it was 7 killpoints for us (the Basilisk, the Leman Russ Punisher, one Leman Russ Vanquisher, both Stormtrooper units and two Veteran units) against 8 killpoints for them (the Fire Dragons, one Jetbike squadron and one Pathfinder unit from me, and the Archon, the Inccubi, the Raider, the Wyches and the Hellions from my partner). I was still pretty satisfied; of the 7 killpoints we made, 6 had been scored by my units (perhaps all 7; as I said, I'm not sure where that second Veteran unit we killed had been), and I felt I had done more than my share of the battle and that we could have easily won if the game had gone better for my opponent, who had some of the worst luck I'd ever seen and an army list that lacked some crucial key components (I urged him to please, please get Haemonculi as soon as possible, and ideally more Raiders, too).

It probably could still have ended the other way if, against my advice, my partner had chosen to attack the Lord-Commissar instead of the unit with Lelith; chances are this would have resulted in the Lord-Commissar dying and the unit breaking, scoring us two points at once. Also, there was this one dumb Veteran unit that was down to a single model... but no way left for us to kill it.

In any case, had great fun with my Eldar and they continue to prove effective.

[Ricky S]

@ nolispe: Yes a non mecha tau army is very viable. It is mechanized though. You take firewarriors mounted in devilfish for your troops. Make one unit 11 strong and put an ethereal in with them. Use this unit to hold your own sides objectives to reduce the chance of the ethereal being killed. Probably about 4 units of firewarriors is enough. Take 3 hammerheads with railguns for heavy support. Then depending on what size army you want add a couple of pirahnas to increase your anti-tank and a pathfinder unit to increase your armies accuracy. There was one guy who played an army like this. He has his own website and played in a tournament with it. It did pretty well. The only differences were that he did have a crisis suit commander and his firewarrior units were only 6 strong and stayed in the devilfish all the times.

Crisis suits aren't giant mecha like gundam are which are about 25m tall. They are only about 4-5m tall. Enough to fit a single tau in. At larger sizes they would lose their efficiency hence why Tau have no titans and instead use assault ships.

@ Renegade Paladin: Well all armies can be made to be realistic (disregarding the obvious unrealistic elements like chaos demons). You simply have to mechanize your entire army. That is how real armies work. The only time they aren't mechanized is if they are in jungle or cities or something.

Plus who says crisis suits couldnt be real? The military is already working on creating them (not them specifically but armoured suits). They have already made railguns and are working on making them more efficient. Theoretically all the tech in 40k is possible.

[Renegade Paladin]

Powered armor/exoskeleton and giant piloted robots are two entirely different beasts. As a combat vehicle, a giant mecha is grossly inferior for many reasons, primarily the high target profile, lesser capability to fire heavy ordnance than a tank of the same weight simply because of the high center of gravity, thinner armor for a given weight because it must cover more surface area, the hugely vulnerable propulsion system, and the maintenance nightmare that same propulsion system entails compared to wheels or tracks even if none of your enemies get it in their heads to shoot to immobilize. If you're looking to augment your infantry, then powered armor (worn, rather than piloted) is the way to go. If you're looking to replace the main battle tank as a weapon of war, then giant robots are not what you're looking for.

[hamishspence]

Funny, if I wanted to play an army with giant mecha, I'd play Tau, because they have the giant mecha.

Tau have the mini-mecha. When it comes to giant mecha, it's generally the other races that have them- Titans.

Tau are one of the few races that don't have anything Titan-like.

[Renegade Paladin]

Tau have the mini-mecha. When it comes to giant mecha, it's generally the other races that have them- Titans.

Tau are one of the few races that don't have anything Titan-like.

And I don't field Titans in Apocalypse, either. If I'm ever in a situation where they're a problem in my local metagame, I'll pick up a Shadowsword or two and call it a day.

[Incomp]

Plus who says crisis suits couldnt be real? The military is already working on creating them (not them specifically but armoured suits). They have already made railguns and are working on making them more efficient. Theoretically all the tech in 40k is possible.

Not to be pedantic, but I have to take a bit of issue with that.

Warp travel is pretty much impossible, unless you believe in psykers and daemons and chaos gods and such.