LGBTAitp - Part Twelve

[Jokasti]

Uh... I think it's more (or more commonly) applied to innuendo and subtext than blatant homosexual relations. Top Gun is homoerotic. Brokeback Mountain is just gay

I always thought Brokeback Mountain was considered bisexual, but I haven't seen it.

[Heliomance]

/rant

Huh. That was unexpected.

Part of my trouble is that I honestly don't know what I want. I have on-and-off thoughts that I should have been born a woman, then I think I'm just being stupid. I remember at one point in my mid-teens, I spent a few days earnestly praying that I'd wake up the next day as a girl - and then being terrified that I would, and wouldn't be able to turn back. I wear a skirt in private and it feels comfortable and natural, but I don't shave off my beard because I look too girly.

I should probably see a specialist - but then I think that no, I just need to sort my head out and stop being such an idiot. Also I have no idea how to go about getting help on the NHS, especially without having to travel far. I don't know.

[KenderWizard]

Huh. That was unexpected.

Part of my trouble is that I honestly don't know what I want. I have on-and-off thoughts that I should have been born a woman, then I think I'm just being stupid. I remember at one point in my mid-teens, I spent a few days earnestly praying that I'd wake up the next day as a girl - and then being terrified that I would, and wouldn't be able to turn back. I wear a skirt in private and it feels comfortable and natural, but I don't shave off my beard because I look too girly.

I should probably see a specialist - but then I think that no, I just need to sort my head out and stop being such an idiot. Also I have no idea how to go about getting help on the NHS, especially without having to travel far. I don't know.

*hug* That does sound difficult, and it's really hard to know what to do when you're not sure yourself exactly how you feel about the issue at hand, no matter what it is, but especially when it's something central to your identity.

It might be worth talking to someone, to help you sort your head out, as you say, whatever gender identity you end up feeling most comfortable assuming. It sounds to me like you're conflicted both about your gender and, even more so, about that conflict, and being able to talk to someone who can help you through it, either a professional or a good supportive person in your life, might help you clarify things so you can feel happy and not have it bother you day-to-day. Or I'm sure people in this thread would be able to give advice and support too, but personally I think I'd like to talk in person to someone who knows me well.

[Worira]

Speaking of baths, there's a local gay bath house has tons of facilities at an insanely cheap rate. I would totally go there if it weren't for all of the gay men who would want to have sex with me.

[Serpentine]

I always thought Brokeback Mountain was considered bisexual, but I haven't seen it.

Uh... I've only ever heard it as a homosexual romance. The only/main bisexual element, from my understanding, was a "social pressures" type thing - he got married because he was expected to and because it was bad for him to be gay, not because he truly loved her.

[turkishproverb]

Speaking of baths, there's a local gay bath house has tons of facilities at an insanely cheap rate. I would totally go there if it weren't for all of the gay men who would want to have sex with me.

You aren't THAT desirable. Trust me.

[golentan]

You aren't THAT desirable. Trust me.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but are you sure about that? Particularly if the expectation there is that folks are looking for casual hookups...

Though I don't see how that takes away the option of saying "no." and just using the awesome cheap facilities.

[Coidzor]

I always thought Brokeback Mountain was considered bisexual, but I haven't seen it.

Nope. Just gay. Loveless placeholder marriage and all that jazz.

[RaggedAngel]

Nope. Just gay. Loveless placeholder marriage and all that jazz.

I don't know if it was loveless; they did seem to care for their wives. It was just the same way that you care for a friend or cousin. They treat them fairly well, and do have an emotional connection, but there's no strong sexual feelings or deep emotional bond. So, not loveless, just 'romanceless'.

However, that's just semantics; I agree with your statement.

[Ashtagon]

Huh. That was unexpected.

Part of my trouble is that I honestly don't know what I want. I have on-and-off thoughts that I should have been born a woman, then I think I'm just being stupid. I remember at one point in my mid-teens, I spent a few days earnestly praying that I'd wake up the next day as a girl - and then being terrified that I would, and wouldn't be able to turn back. I wear a skirt in private and it feels comfortable and natural, but I don't shave off my beard because I look too girly.

I should probably see a specialist - but then I think that no, I just need to sort my head out and stop being such an idiot. Also I have no idea how to go about getting help on the NHS, especially without having to travel far. I don't know.

NHS? I'm guessing that you are in the UK.

pm me for my skype details if you want to chat about this in depth.

[turkishproverb]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but are you sure about that? Particularly if the expectation there is that folks are looking for casual hookups...

Though I don't see how that takes away the option of saying "no." and just using the awesome cheap facilities.

That was basically my point. He's not desirable enough (face it, noone is) that he won't be able to get a moments peace in the place.

[Serpentine]

If he is, he's probably got bigger problems (possibly relating to part of The Craft, or if really unlucky then Perfume).
...but I'm guessing he's being facetious, guys. I hope...

[22Charisma]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but are you sure about that? Particularly if the expectation there is that folks are looking for casual hookups...

Though I don't see how that takes away the option of saying "no." and just using the awesome cheap facilities.

To be fair would you want to use the facilities someplace where people keep asking you for a casual hook up. Even if they weren't I'd be quite skeeved out just knowing OTHER people were doing that.

Also, referring to the "Bi" Brokeback Mountain, while I definitely think it was Gay and not Bi, I just think that goes to prove how dificult it is to get people to understand that a character in any given movie or tv show is bisexual. I mean you have a guy that:

a)Dates a girl - straight
b)Dates a guy - gay
c)Dates a girl THEN a guy - was closeted
d)Dates a guy THEN a girl - was experimenting
e)Dates a girl then a guy then a girl - experimenting/audience actually accepting bisexuality/run the risk of thinking the guy is just slutty
f)Dates a guy then a girl then a guy - the girl was just a beard/audience actually accepting bisexuality/run the risk of thinking the guy is just slutty

And with a girl, I'd imagine it'd be even more dificult. I mean a good part of those options would become: Guys think girl on girl is hawt. (Then thanks to the double standard, if we show a dating history then we're not proving bisexuality, we're proving sluttyness)

[AugustNights]

[note to self] Find bath house. [/note to self]

Pure curiosity, Heliomance, but when you wear the skirt do you feel obligated to shave your beard? I know sometimes when I switch gears I feel like I should commit fully to it, but at other times I kinda wind up middle of the road with something like facial hair and skirt.

[Heliomance]

As I only ever do it in the privacy of my own room, not so much.

Also, shaving it off is effort, and it takes ages to grow back.

[golentan]

To be fair would you want to use the facilities someplace where people keep asking you for a casual hook up. Even if they weren't I'd be quite skeeved out just knowing OTHER people were doing that.

I used my dorm's showers. Your argument is invalid.

[rayne_dragon]

Also, referring to the "Bi" Brokeback Mountain, while I definitely think it was Gay and not Bi, I just think that goes to prove how dificult it is to get people to understand that a character in any given movie or tv show is bisexual. I mean you have a guy that:

a)Dates a girl - straight
b)Dates a guy - gay
c)Dates a girl THEN a guy - was closeted
d)Dates a guy THEN a girl - was experimenting
e)Dates a girl then a guy then a girl - experimenting/audience actually accepting bisexuality/run the risk of thinking the guy is just slutty
f)Dates a guy then a girl then a guy - the girl was just a beard/audience actually accepting bisexuality/run the risk of thinking the guy is just slutty

And with a girl, I'd imagine it'd be even more dificult. I mean a good part of those options would become: Guys think girl on girl is hawt. (Then thanks to the double standard, if we show a dating history then we're not proving bisexuality, we're proving sluttyness)

From what I've seen you would either have to show the person in question dating both a guy and a girl at the same time (which propigates an unfortunate misunderstanding that bisexuals are also always poly) or make it something that they point out by constantly informing the audience of the fact that charact x is bi. It worked for 13 on House... although she also came off as a little slutty, but with at least a justifiable reason for being so.

[Asta Kask]

Hmm... I've just been called a homophobe. Do I come across as one?

[Lix Lorn]

Don't think so. Why were you called one?

[Worira]

Nope.

Also, the issue with the bathhouse isn't so much that that I'd be uncomfortable with being hit on, although that's a factor, it's that going to a place that is very much intended for casual hookups when you have no interest whatsoever in them seems rather rude.

[AugustNights]

On the topic of Bi characters, I have this problem in real life, or rather a problem similar to it.
Everyone assumes I am gay-and-only-gay.
Even my friends frequently tell me that they think I am gay-and-only-gay, and complete strangers seem to make the same assumption. The roll of the eyes at the word "bisexual", can be so very irritating at times.
Especially when people tell me to my face "You are only X, but you think you're Y."
I understand this problem is quite frequent among those with this sexual orientation.
Bah.

Edit:

Hmm... I've just been called a homophobe. Do I come across as one?

Do you fear sameness?
I think casually posting in the BATH community qualifies as non-homophobic.
Though I never much cared for the irrational fear association with the word 'homophobe.'

[KenderWizard]

Hmm... I've just been called a homophobe. Do I come across as one?

You certainly don't in here. Was it a randomer who called you this?

[Coidzor]

I used my dorm's showers. Your argument is invalid.

Your dorm was that improbably full of people propositioning you for sex but they also improbably did not do so at all when you were using the shower facilities?

Though I never much cared for the irrational fear association with the word 'homophobe.'

It did always seem to have a critical blind spot in regards to the people who, without an ounce of fear or even personal hatred in their hearts would gladly make glue out of everyone in this thread.

[Lyesmith]

The whole idea of it seems pretty disgusting to me, I must admit. Eurgh.

Brighton's men-only gay sauna is right next to some sleazy strip joint featuring "girls, girls, girls". Excellent placing, I must admit.

[Serpentine]

Though I never much cared for the irrational fear association with the word 'homophobe.'

*le *
Phobias incorporate irrational hatred or disgust, aversion and bigotry, as well all-out fear (and there's different types of fear, too, aside from "eek! Run away" - I'd consider "they're gonna gayify all our kids! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" a variety of fear).

[rayne_dragon]

On the topic of Bi characters, I have this problem in real life, or rather a problem similar to it.
Everyone assumes I am gay-and-only-gay.
Even my friends frequently tell me that they think I am gay-and-only-gay, and complete strangers seem to make the same assumption. The roll of the eyes at the word "bisexual", can be so very irritating at times.
Especially when people tell me to my face "You are only X, but you think you're Y."
I understand this problem is quite frequent among those with this sexual orientation.
Bah.

It is worse for bi people, but it can happen to any sexual or gender orientation and a number of other things too. You might want to point out that such comments are a form of discrimination/harassment to the offending parties.

Not that I ever do.

Do you fear sameness?
I think casually posting in the BATH community qualifies as non-homophobic.
Though I never much cared for the irrational fear association with the word 'homophobe.'

I have created a monster!

Hmm... I've just been called a homophobe. Do I come across as one?

Yes. Totally. Why are you even here?

Just kidding, of course. Are you sure it wasn't friendly mocking or otherwise in jest?

[Coidzor]

*le *
Phobias incorporate irrational hatred or disgust, aversion and bigotry, as well all-out fear (and there's different types of fear, too, aside from "eek! Run away" - I'd consider "they're gonna gayify all our kids! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" a variety of fear).

Yes, but it seems to make the actual evil somewhat... lessened and overlooked by holding killing people for being gay in the same realm as people who look pathetic whenever within 100 yards of a plastic spider.

It's mostly something that's just always struck me as a bit odd rather than a serious complaint.

[cycoris]

Yes, but it seems to make the actual evil somewhat... lessened and overlooked by holding killing people for being gay in the same realm as people who look pathetic whenever within 100 yards of a plastic spider.

It's mostly something that's just always struck me as a bit odd rather than a serious complaint.

Well, there are also some phobias that can have a serious impact on someone's life. Agoraphobia comes to mind, but I'm sure there are many others. And like homophobia, they can all range from mildly annoying to threatening to take over someone's life. So it honestly seems like an apt term for something that ranges from making me sigh to making me curl up in my room and cry all afternoon. Not to mention a useful one.

Anyway, I'm just happy that "homophobic" is the accepted/widely used term, since its meaning is clearly pejorative (or at least I think it is), whereas prejudiced is technically neutral.

[Lix Lorn]

So it honestly seems like an apt term for something that ranges from making me sigh to making me curl up in my room and cry all afternoon.

(hugs)

Whenever anyone uses the word to my grandfather, he gets pedantic about the literal meaning of the word. -_-

[Serpentine]

Hurrah! Mysterious internet chokkits and a wildly inappropriate card!