Habits that kill fun in a session.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Mr. Worldbuilder
Ok, so your character has been built to excel at social interactions, manipulation, and general worldbuilding. Wonderful, nice to see that you've thought it out as much as you did.

But we're not doing a worldbuilding game, we're doing something else.

This is the kind of person that thinks you're playing Civilization as opposed to whatever tabletop game you are playing (D&D, Pathfinder, WoD, ect. ect.).

Guy in my group, about every 4/5 characters he makes are built with worldbuilding in mind, even when the campaign does not call for it.

How does one built a character optimized for "world-building?"

[Silus]

How does one built a character optimized for "world-building?"

Munchkining social skills to the point of absurdity is a good start.

It's not really optimization to be honest, it's the play style. Like he joined a WoD game with a murder mystery plot, and first thing he did was ask if his character could get a stock portfolio so he could make boatloads of money.

My first D&D campaign (survival horror, H.P. Lovecraft + 1408 type game), his second character was a Dread Necro that was built solely around raising and commanding undead (which didn't really come in handy when dealing with hive-minded Shadows controlled by a malevolent Genius Loci). Guy also falls under the "Power Hungry" and "Loot Whore" category of characters.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Munchkining social skills to the point of absurdity is a good start.

It's not really optimization to be honest, it's the play style. Like he joined a WoD game with a murder mystery plot, and first thing he did was ask if his character could get a stock portfolio so he could make boatloads of money.

My first D&D campaign (survival horror, H.P. Lovecraft + 1408 type game), his second character was a Dread Necro that was built solely around raising and commanding undead (which didn't really come in handy when dealing with hive-minded Shadows controlled by a malevolent Genius Loci). Guy also falls under the "Power Hungry" and "Loot Whore" category of characters.

Oh.

So he builds characters that are capable of achieving their in-character aims? Why is that a problem, exactly?

[Hiro Protagonest]

For world-building, you wanna put max ranks in knowledge (history), knowledge (architecture and engineering), diplomacy, and maybe sense motive. You also want leadership.

There's also the feats extra followers, improved cohort, inspirational leadership, and practiced cohort in Heroes of Battle.

You also want to maximize your charisma and intelligence scores.

[Silus]

Oh.

So he builds characters that are capable of achieving their in-character aims? Why is that a problem, exactly?

If I remember correctly, the Dread Necro wanted power (to the point where he actually read a Lovecraftian tome, much to my "WTF?"ness) and to raise an army of undead. Which is fine and dandy in a regular game. But in the game he was in, the party was stuck inside a Genius Loci with reality warping powers (like the hotel room from the movie 1408). Kinda hard (not to mention pointless) trying to take over undead creatures being controlled by an Epic monster...

*Shrugs* Probably should have put "Mr. Campaign Inappropriate Character Maker" instead.

[Greenish]

For world-building, you wanna put max ranks in knowledge (history), knowledge (architecture and engineering), diplomacy, and maybe sense motive. You also want leadership.

There's also the feats extra followers, improved cohort, inspirational leadership, and practiced cohort in Heroes of Battle.

You also want to maximize your charisma and intelligence scores.

Or just be a thrallherd.

[Oracle_Hunter]

*Shrugs* Probably should have put "Mr. Campaign Inappropriate Character Maker" instead.

Heh. Yeah.

I was more confused by the idea of a character optimizing for "world-building" since, in my experience, "world-building" is something either done by DMs or something that DMs would like their Players to do. In either case, mechanics don't enter into it.

Thanks for the enlightenment

[Silus]

Heh. Yeah.

I was more confused by the idea of a character optimizing for "world-building" since, in my experience, "world-building" is something either done by DMs or something that DMs would like their Players to do. In either case, mechanics don't enter into it.

Thanks for the enlightenment

*Nods* It's more of a "I'm gonna build me a kingdom" kinda thing. Except, like, larger. Empire Building on steroids.

[Hiro Protagonest]

*Nods* It's more of a "I'm gonna build me a kingdom" kinda thing. Except, like, larger. Empire Building on steroids.

Personally, I'd love to do that. Totally awesome.

[Tael]

How does one built a character optimized for "world-building?"

By playing Exalted!

[dsmiles]

Personally, I'd love to do that. Totally awesome.

You'd probably enjoy gaming with me, then. Very sandboxy, with a few RR Tracks running through it, just so that the players don't just sit around going, "I'm boooooored." Yes, I have players that won't get up and adventure without a set of tracks to lead them somewhere. (Other than that, they're the best group EVAR! )

[MlleRouge]

The Character Repeat Guy...the BAD kind: This dude wants to keep trying the same unsuccessful character concept over and over and over....it never works, for either mechanical or social reasons, and it really just gets sad after a while.

My group has a tendency to repeat characters, or at least keep retired characters close to our hearts. We used to have a guy (since booted. I've mentioned him in previous posts) who loved to repeat his character as well...except he was a) an Artemis Entreri clone and b) his bad 'novel' character that was basically what he wished he was IRL.

He played this guy at least three times in d&d, never once getting along with the party. He also played him once in Mage: The Awakening. Again, a flop.

Why did he get along poorly? Because every game, he had the same backstory and driving plot element..his wife had been kidnapped and "ZOMG I want her back!1". He always totally ignored the DM's plot and tried to force the game in the direction of getting her back. If the DM incorporated it into the overall stroyline (as 3 out of 4 did), it didn't happen fast enough for dude's liking. And since he never got to fulfill his quest, he would try to play it again in one of the next couple of games.

He harped on it constantly in character. I kid you not, his favorite line was a variation of "I don't give a *various creative swear* about your war/quest/storyline element, I just want my wife back!". If he wasn't harping on that, he was getting drunk and babbling about it 'Magic Missile at the Darkness' style; "DM! Roll the dice to see if I'm getting DRUNK!" or "Okay, current RP doesn't relate to my wife so I'm bored..I go find a BAR!" That was literally it.

I was able to mostly ignore this for years, somehow. Though I have to admit, I sometimes got secret chuckles out of it.

[Tyndmyr]

How does one built a character optimized for "world-building?"

Social skills, a full casting class. Spells like genesis and your various creation spells(wall of stone, iron for those materials. Complete...mage or arcane has one for wood, etc. Fabricate.)

Utilize the hireling rules from Arms and Equipment, abuse the various organization rules(complete champion holds some of my favorites), and make sure to grab SBG for fun things like magic traps and flying fortresses. There's also a feat in there to take care of little things like gold shortages in this.

Yeah, it's not terribly hard to control people, shape the world, and kill or manipulate monsters. In case you haven't guessed, I have a weakness for doing this myself. It can be a great deal of fun, but it definitely doesn't fit all campaigns.

I should point out that it generally tends to fit ALL of my D&D campaigns, as I trend toward sandboxy and tend to appreciate when players take the initiative.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Oh yeah, and for world building, you should always get leadership. If you're a caster, get a dwarf smith and stonemason for your cohort, if you're not a spellcaster, get a caster cohort, probably specializing in conjuration or transmutation.

[Choco]

The Outsider--While not playing anything setting/system/rules inappropriate, this guy always wants to play a character that does not fit in with your campaign setting. Campaign taking place in the heart of Dwarven lands and supposed to focus on the Dwarves? Yeah, he wants to be an Elf. Doing a desert campaign? Say hello to the Frost Mage. Aquatic/seafaring campaign? He wants to be a fighter in full plate or a caster that specializes in earth spells.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The Outsider--While not playing anything setting/system/rules inappropriate, this guy always wants to play a character that does not fit in with your campaign setting. Campaign taking place in the heart of Dwarven lands and supposed to focus on the Dwarves? Yeah, he wants to be an Elf. Doing a desert campaign? Say hello to the Frost Mage. Aquatic/seafaring campaign? He wants to be a fighter in full plate or a caster that specializes in earth spells.

Let him play his character, and see how he reacts to being next to useless.

[jguy]

Yes, but then you have a player in the group who is actually hurting the party more by being around then if they were not at all. If the fighter in fullplate falls into the ocean, others will try to help him because he is a teammate. An Elf in a dwarf campaign will make the quest much harder by the mistrust to him. Frost mage in the desert...might be interesting actually.

[Gamer Girl]

The Outsider--While not playing anything setting/system/rules inappropriate, this guy always wants to play a character that does not fit in with your campaign setting. Campaign taking place in the heart of Dwarven lands and supposed to focus on the Dwarves? Yeah, he wants to be an Elf. Doing a desert campaign? Say hello to the Frost Mage. Aquatic/seafaring campaign? He wants to be a fighter in full plate or a caster that specializes in earth spells.

Even worse is the Special Outsider--they fully want to be the Outsider and think its great and cool....but at the exact same time they want to fit it. If it's advantageous for them to be the outsider they will be one, but if it's a hindrance they want the whole Outsider thing ignored.

For example: That elf in dwarf town expects every dwarven shopkeeper to treat him exactly like a dwarf. And, in fact, he should get the 'dwarven clan discount'(as it's not fair that the other characters get it and he as an elf would not). No one would notice 'that group of dwarves with that one and only elf in the land' and so forth....

But if it was something 'good' he would suddenly want to be treated like an elf. He wants the 'elf discount' from the Treelord and he wants the guards to not arrest him and they would figure 'oh that elf is not part of the group, as dwarves and elves don't hang out together'.

And i'm not talking about having the fun of role-playing this all out...I'm talking about the player who just acts like a typical kill-loot-repeat adventurer, but expects everything to go their way.

[stainboy]

My favoritest thing ever is when Mr. Special Outsider is also Mr. Monster. He can't understand why all these NPCs are prejudiced against half-minotaur vampires. The DM is just picking on him and should have warned him at character creation. (The DM did warn him, like three times. He wasn't listening.)

[Traab]

My favoritest thing ever is when Mr. Special Outsider is also Mr. Monster. He can't understand why all these NPCs are prejudiced against half-minotaur vampires. The DM is just picking on him and should have warned him at character creation. (The DM did warn him, like three times. He wasn't listening.)

Could be worse, at least he isnt the half minotaur triple zombie double vampire lich lich we came up with in one of the other threads about playable undead. lol

[Seb Wiers]

Frost mage in the desert...might be interesting actually.

No doubt. Most deserts get quite cold at night. There isn't enough moisture for frost / ice to form, but its still COLD.
Also, not all deserts are equatorial sand deserts, though I'm guessing that's the type the OP had in mind. High altitude deserts in temperate zones can be a nice place to get freeze-dried.

[dsmiles]

No doubt. Most deserts get quite cold at night. There isn't enough moisture for frost / ice to form, but its still COLD.
Also, not all deserts are equatorial sand deserts, though I'm guessing that's the type the OP had in mind. High altitude deserts in temperate zones can be a nice place to get freeze-dried.

In a desert (IME), it really doesn't get that cold. It gets comparatively cold. When I was in Kuwait, our temper-tents were air conditioned at 90 degrees F (I think that's somewhere between 35-38 C), but it felt colder than a witch's bewb in a brass bra, if you take my meaning. When we did PT in the mornings at about 4:30, it was already in the high 80's (again, degrees F). We were (figuratively) freezing our man-parts off.

[Provengreil]

A frost mage in the desert might hit a lot of monsters he's very effective against, but his fire vulnerability would almost certainly bite him in the rear. Some players would purposefully not take that last level to avoid it, but it would feel kinda cheesy.

[BlackestOfMages]

In a desert (IME), it really doesn't get that cold. It gets comparatively cold. When I was in Kuwait, our temper-tents were air conditioned at 90 degrees F (I think that's somewhere between 35-38 C), but it felt colder than a witch's bewb in a brass bra, if you take my meaning. When we did PT in the mornings at about 4:30, it was already in the high 80's (again, degrees F). We were (figuratively) freezing our man-parts off.

lol.

though some types of frost mage in a desert would work. like stoping the party roasting to death.

also, they seem to be making their own ice a lot, else casting cone of cold or wall of ice WOULD make their current setting a desert unless they were in a pool. so frost mage would work...

now, when he wants to play a water based elemental manipulator, or an ice-based warforged made out of mechanical ice and snow in said desert (don't ask, it was a laugh for a few weeks) it beomes a problem. unless the whole parties doing it

[The Glyphstone]

lol.

though some types of frost mage in a desert would work. like stoping the party roasting to death.

also, they seem to be making their own ice a lot, else casting cone of cold or wall of ice WOULD make their current setting a desert unless they were in a pool. so frost mage would work...

now, when he wants to play a water based elemental manipulator, or an ice-based warforged made out of mechanical ice and snow in said desert (don't ask, it was a laugh for a few weeks) it beomes a problem. unless the whole parties doing it

Frosty the Snowforged,
was a violent, murderous soul...

[Wraith]

For example: That elf in dwarf town expects every dwarven shopkeeper to treat him exactly like a dwarf. And, in fact, he should get the 'dwarven clan discount'(as it's not fair that the other characters get it and he as an elf would not). No one would notice 'that group of dwarves with that one and only elf in the land' and so forth....

But if it was something 'good' he would suddenly want to be treated like an elf. He wants the 'elf discount' from the Treelord and he wants the guards to not arrest him and they would figure 'oh that elf is not part of the group, as dwarves and elves don't hang out together'.

To be fair, playing that DELIBERATELY - maybe as some sort of Charlatan or confidence trickster-type of character whose schtick is that he tries to con everyone he comes across - sounds like a lot of fun.

But yeah... the guy who plays a none descript Elf Ranger and still expects the same 'just because' really isn't as good.

[Tyndmyr]

Frosty the Snowforged,
was a violent, murderous soul...

I would allow this abomination. Oh yes, I would.

[Knaight]

In a desert (IME), it really doesn't get that cold. It gets comparatively cold. When I was in Kuwait, our temper-tents were air conditioned at 90 degrees F (I think that's somewhere between 35-38 C), but it felt colder than a witch's bewb in a brass bra, if you take my meaning. When we did PT in the mornings at about 4:30, it was already in the high 80's (again, degrees F). We were (figuratively) freezing our man-parts off.

It depends on the desert. The lack of humidity leads to higher variation in temperature in any given day, and general temperature is largely due to latitude and season. For instance, the Gobi desert averaging to below freezing, with about a 35 C variation in temperature common in any given day, with temperatures from -40 to 50 relatively common. Antarctica is a desert, and yet colder, though temperature varies less in short periods.

I would allow this abomination. Oh yes, I would.

Pun license: Revoked

[BlackestOfMages]

Frosty the Snowforged,
was a violent, murderous soul...

sigged so hard

probably already been mentioned, but mr my penalties are not the same as your penalties

this is a player who tries to circumnavigate the game's restrictions, without outright ignoring his penalties, tough at time they do look a lot like bonuses. in fact, they lok like his penalties make him more effective than you...

exampligratas: you're in magical darkness, and he's a mage. he has a homebrewed insta kill spell the DM said would only hit 10% of the time, and would only work on the living. this is an adult dragon, so alive. we knew we were probably screwed (mid-level party, with the effective, honest wizard failing his dragonfear test) so he casts it, after everyone praying he instead uses his teleport to get us the f**k out of there, and instead of it's stated 10% hit rate, it is instead, due to a half-hour long argument with the DM till we let him have it, a 50% miss rate due to him not being able to see the target. it hits, but no-one other than him seems happy. he also likes to DM warhammer fantasy battles games, from my earlier posts

or B) in the game warhammer fantasy battle rpg, there's a mental disorder that's effectivley split personality disorder. he picks it up Iafter being driven insane due to his fear of goblins...) and from that point on manages to mooch his 'evil' persona to become a devotee of the chaos gods long enough to moan his way into a suit of chaos armour (win) and the superhuman strength aspect. however, because this is only his 'evil' side (which is the same as the good side) he can still technically, bue to RAW, wield any good magic item/ability/whatever if his good persoanlity is in control when he first touches it...

and one last rant, about this douce's partner in douche-hood
Mr why are you taking that skill/feat/class/tool, you're bringiing down the party. btw, I'm playing dark herasy with a sewer cleaner who cannot physically shut up, wealding a power spade and cracking really crappy jokes all the time. Also, this diplomacy things kinda lame right, we should just kill the shopkeeper, it's faster and we don;t have to pay

well, the name could be shorter, but this guy is that one player you get every so often. he'll sit there, begrudging the non blood related RP events from other charactersw, trying to push them to play chaotic stupid or lkawful asswipe, depending on his current mood, and will actually throw a rant about someone not taking exactly this build because it's reducing the effectiveness of the party/could be better/he dosen't have a clue what anything does or he's making it up. yet his build is a total farce, he'll be playing the intelegence 3 deaf-blind wizard with the rabid mongoose familiar that attacks him on sight and tries to hump the cleric...

and if you ever loose at anything (like roll a natural 1) you will not hear the end of it

[MlleRouge]

I once played in a game where the DM asked for characters, then sprang a Norse campaign setting on us (after we gave him characters) and was upset that none of us were Norse...

I guess that's some estranged cousin of "Mr. Outsider"?