Habits that kill fun in a session.

[HalfDragonCube]

Seems to me that if they're planning on you killing them they should have no problem with it.

I'd still like to avoid PvP if possible, but thanks anyways...

[DontEatRawHagis]

There are three or four people in my current group who are roll players while me, the Gm and several others(about 10 people in the entire group btw) are roleplayers. So while we are doing stuff like making plans and getting information, they are sitting around screaming when is combat when is combat, I want to kill something.

[Firechanter]

I'd still like to avoid PvP if possible, but thanks anyways...

To paraphrase LOTR, "PvP is upon you, whether you want it or not". What the Goliath player did there was an extremely unfriendly act. Just because he didn't attack you doesn't mean it's not PvP.

For the future, however, it would be wiser to agree on just even shares after expenses, regardless of who did what in the adventure.

[Gnoman]

The groups I play with don't even divide loot much. It just goes into a big chest on the boat/starship/zombie dinosaur/BattleMech and everyone grabs what they need, as long as it's reasonable. (Small amounts, or money gained from selling items, is generally kept by one player, but that's only a portion of the loot.)

[HalfDragonCube]

To paraphrase LOTR, "PvP is upon you, whether you want it or not". What the Goliath player did there was an extremely unfriendly act. Just because he didn't attack you doesn't mean it's not PvP.

For the future, however, it would be wiser to agree on just even shares after expenses, regardless of who did what in the adventure.

Awesome quote-thing.

The groups I play with don't even divide loot much. It just goes into a big chest on the boat/starship/zombie dinosaur/BattleMech and everyone grabs what they need, as long as it's reasonable. (Small amounts, or money gained from selling items, is generally kept by one player, but that's only a portion of the loot.)

You lucky, lucky person.

[Sipex]

Awesome idea. I already have several possible ways of killing them and am having dificulty deciding which one to go for. Even better, I'm a Wizard/Archivist, so I kill them as a standard action and still go to bed with more spells slots than others wake up with. The problem is I would rather avoid PvP, since there is already far too much.

What bugs me is that the entire party did agree on my larger share because of the risk. And, they deliberately dent and damage the magic weapon they bought so even if I kill them I still don't get back anywhere near as much as I put in.

OOC solutions are always the best. Talk to them first and explain how underhanded that was and ask why they didn't say something if they had a problem with it.

If that doesn't resolve the issues then have your character act cold towards the group but civil.

Then, right after the BBEG dies, kill the lot of them.

[Silus]

You know, I think that most of the fun in playing horror games is the distinction between player and character knowledge. So if I encounter a book in CoC I will read it. Because my character is curious. Because I know it will move the plot along and I'm curious, but I will know it will cost me sanity at least.
Prodding the body, reading the book, opening the door. As a player I know it will end badly, my character doesn't know this and I'm curious anyways. I want to do the stupid thing, but I really don't want to do it. This conflict makes it fun and scary.

I'm thinking the player in question just wasn't genre savvy in the least. At least the guy playing the Paladin had an excuse (Mormon = not a large horror movie pool to pull from), but this guy...he nor his character batted an eye when the previously right-side-up autopsy room became corkscrewed with everything adhering to the "floor" except the players. Or the shadows literally oozing out of the walls and devouring anything they touch. Or the fact that they were in a Lovecraftian Genius Loci on Carceri that ate souls and could warp reality on a larger extent than the hotel room in 1408.

*Stops and thinks* Of course, the guy is a roll player, at least after my experiences with him...

[HalfDragonCube]

OOC solutions are always the best. Talk to them first and explain how underhanded that was and ask why they didn't say something if they had a problem with it.

If that doesn't resolve the issues then have your character act cold towards the group but civil.

Then, right after the BBEG dies, kill the lot of them.

That looked like a perfectly normal response until the last line.

In the campaign the biggest thread so far is a level 20 sublime chord.

Called William.

He also introduces himself as 'The Bard'.

I think I might I might make a bluff check and get them to call him Vibrapole or something like that.

[Sipex]

Actually, a better (less fun ruining) idea is just work with the DM to play tricks on the PCs as your character getting revenge.

Stuff which gets them back without interrupting the game negatively (ie: not at a crucial moment) and in the end causes no damage to their loot or stats.

SilverClawShift did a good one but there are plenty of tricks you could do like this.

[HalfDragonCube]

Actually, a better (less fun ruining) idea is just work with the DM to play tricks on the PCs as your character getting revenge.

Stuff which gets them back without interrupting the game negatively (ie: not at a crucial moment) and in the end causes no damage to their loot or stats.

SilverClawShift did a good one but there are plenty of tricks you could do like this.

Sounds good, but maybe a little damage to a certain player's 'loot' and a certain amount of 'compensation' to mine.

Have you got a link? I need inspiration.

[big teej]

I've got one.

this may even get put up in the rp'ers of genius thread.


mister "borked up family tree"

this is the person who brings a character to the game that has a.... well. borked up family tree.

for instance, a minotaur bloodline tiefling that plans on going into red dragon disciple

that..... is a borked up family tree.

but it could be worse!

he could be a shifter on top of that! or something else!


for the record, this doesn't NECESSARILY kill a session, but it can on sheer ridiculousness.

[HalfDragonCube]

I've got one.

this may even get put up in the rp'ers of genius thread.


mister "borked up family tree"

this is the person who brings a character to the game that has a.... well. borked up family tree.

for instance, a minotaur bloodline tiefling that plans on going into red dragon disciple

that..... is a borked up family tree.

but it could be worse!

he could be a shifter on top of that! or something else!


for the record, this doesn't NECESSARILY kill a session, but it can on sheer ridiculousness.

And of course they are a doppelganger who just looks like one. And has all of the stats to go with it...

[Notreallyhere77]

I've got a little discussion going in the spin-off thread that I'll be happy to share.

Mr. Unconventional Character Maker

Spoiler

Show

Giant in the Playground Forums Presents: Real Role Players of Genius....
"Real Role Players of Geniuuuuuss!"
Today we salute you, Mr. Unconventional Character Maker.
Mr. Unconventional Character Maker!

To you, classical fantasy tropes are cliché and overused. While the rest of the party is using the beloved rogues, fighters, knights, and wizards, you break out the non-Core and pick a class that sends the DM running for the dictionary.
What the crap is a Factotum!!???

And you don't stop there- Humans, elves, and dwarves are all childish concepts to you. You play a real man's character, be it some half-dragon shifter or a warforged.
Why's there a medieval robooooot!!???

And just to prove that you're not bound by society's mores, you slap on an evil alignment to somehow prove that you're a hardcore anti-hero.
I kill the blacksmith!!!

So grab yourself a Cure Light, O Hipster of Roleplaying! Because if you can't prove that the age-old classics are all boring trash, no one can.
Mr. Unconventional Character Maaaaaker!!!

Guess we all have our tastes in fantasy.

I feel for you. one of my players has decided to play a fire elemental, savage species style. Worse, he convinced two other players to be an air and water elemental. The player in question is also the can't-stop-telling-dirty-jokes guy, and almost everyone in the group hates him for being a CE troll. I would like to kick him (and the other two; they're all trouble-makers) out of the game, but he has the maturity level of a 12-year-old, knows where I live, weighs as much as three of me, and carries knives everywhere he goes. Needless to say, I fear what he might be capable of.

Wow. That was more of a rant than I intended.

That sucks it's people like those that give creative players everywhere a bad name. I could see a fire elemental being a good character as long as you roleplayed it well and had a reason for being with the party. Say you are stuck on the material plane because of a botched summoning spell and then play up the alienation an elemental feels when in a world totally unlike its home.

It gets worse. They're claiming to be brothers. All created by a wizard. I tried to tell them elementals don't work that way, but they said "screw that, it's magic, we don't have to explain it." It's my world, guys. Not that they care.
I liked it better when he and one of the friends were plaing actual aasimar twins, paladin and antipaladin (I think they forgot their character sheets again and just wanted new characters). He was the antipaladin, of course, because he has such a skewed view of morality that he can't play lawful good for more than one or two sessions without goofing up. Speaking of which, the three of them, in return for letting them play elementals, they all promised to be LG and keep their alignment by not pulling the hostage/vendor/orphan-torturing shennanigans they usually do. There's already a betting pool in place for how long they can keep it up. The odds are heavy against them.

I'm going to have to move this to the other thread so I can rant properly. Here, I'm just getting in the way of cure light ads.

It's not that I have anything against creative character concepts. Heck, I've wanted to play a fire elemental myself sometimes. It's just that this guy is the worst possible person to play things like that. He's got mad optimization skills, but can't imagine a personality different enough from his own that he can roleplay his character without slinging insults and drawing a weapon. I wish I had the guts to boot him, I really do.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I've got a little discussion going in the spin-off thread that I'll be happy to share.












It's not that I have anything against creative character concepts. Heck, I've wanted to play a fire elemental myself sometimes. It's just that this guy is the worst possible person to play things like that. He's got mad optimization skills, but can't imagine a personality different enough from his own that he can roleplay his character without slinging insults and drawing a weapon. I wish I had the guts to boot him, I really do.

If you're afraid of him attacking you if you kick him out, keep your cell phone on at all times and put 911 on speed dial.

[Notreallyhere77]

I don't have a cell phone. And I guess I'm not so scared of him really attacking me, but I wouldn't put it past him to wake me up several nights in a row with annoying phone calls or something. He's in his mid-to-late twenties but acts like he's still in junior high. Only two other people in the group like him. The rest of us either tolerate him or dislike him as much as I do. One time he had a tantrum and left a game, and nobody minded, but then he showed up uninvited two or three weeks later and no one knew what to say, so we let him play again.

In his defense, he knows RAW for 3.5 and PF better than anyone else at the table, so he's useful as a go-to guy for obscure or complicated rules.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I don't have a cell phone. And I guess I'm not so scared of him really attacking me, but I wouldn't put it past him to wake me up several nights in a row with annoying phone calls or something. He's in his mid-to-late twenties but acts like he's still in junior high. Only two other people in the group like him. The rest of us either tolerate him or dislike him as much as I do. One time he had a tantrum and left a game, and nobody minded, but then he showed up uninvited two or three weeks later and no one knew what to say, so we let him play again.

In his defense, he knows RAW for 3.5 and PF better than anyone else at the table, so he's useful as a go-to guy for obscure or complicated rules.

Then turn your cell phone off at night.

[ryu]

I think he meant a land line phone in the house. Reread his post.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I think he meant a land line phone in the house. Reread his post.

Oh. Then get caller ID.

[Claudius Maximus]

It would still ring though, which might be enough of a problem on its own.

I suggest you talk to the rest of the group and discuss a way to handle this without anyone getting too offended. Generic advice, I know, but this kind of thing is different enough in each particular case.

[Notreallyhere77]

Oh. Then get caller ID.

Well, that would be an option if I had my own house/apartment. Right now, I'm forced to live with a parent who doesn't want caller ID.

I think the biggest problem is that I don't like confrontations, and him being rather intimidating even when he's in a good mood doesn't help matters.

[The Glyphstone]

are the other people in your group who don't like him willing to stand up to him? If you get them on your side beforehand, they might be able to 'tank' for you.

[Morquard]

Here's what happened to me a few weeks back in a PbP game, pretty much all the things I hate happened at once.
I left it after not a very long time, in real-play time it would have maybe been 20 minutes into the game, if at all.

We were playing a pre-made pathfinder module ("Crypt of the Everflame") and I was playing a manipulative/seductive witch with decent charisma, even chose two traits that made Bluff and Sense Motive class skills, so I can play on that concept.
Now the story begins in a small town, the group gets send to fetch something from a cave a few days away. So we're all preparing to leave, packing backpacks etc. My character was just flirting a bit with the dwarven fighter, since she didn't want to carry the heavy tent they had been given herself, but on the other hand didn't want to sleep under the stars if she could have a tent. So she got him to carry it for her.

Suddenly, boom, a GM post "After a few hours of walking, you suddenly get ambushed by 4 orcs that jump out of the woods" (or thats a summery, his post was longer).
In the OOC thread "I wanted to get the game started" - uhm, hello, we were playing already. Role-playing. It wasn't just me and the fighter either, most of the others were engaged in conversations as well.
Oh, when I mentioned that I would have liked to finish this RP scene his answer was basicly "When you're done returning the flame (aka when the whole thing is over), you can spend time RPing in the town" ...


Should have been a warning for me right there.

Ok, so we dispatch the orcs relatively fast, turns out they weren't real, but just illusions, and we find footprints leading away, apperently from the caster that made the illusions, also some lingering magic auras.
My character (and at least one other), thougt it would be a good idea to investigate, there has been trouble with orcs before, and wants to make sure there's nothing like that preparing to attack the village for example. Or an orc shaman in our back, etc. The sorcerer (who knew the DM personally in RL) didn't think so. He thought it was some guy from the village playing a practical joke on us. He wouldn't even consider any other possibility. Also at this time, that character had practically insulted everyone else multiple times already, and that we now disagreed with him, didn't make him any less obnoxious.

We were still discussing what to do, when again a DM post happened "You keep walking south for a few more hours..."

Well that's when I stopped playing, there was obviously no point anymore to it. Not only do our choices apperently make no difference at all, in this case we didn't even get the choice in the first place. the DM was just running down the script as written down in the module, and even slight alterations to it where apperently not something he could deal with.
I don't mind some degree of railroading to keep us on tracks, but I at least want the illusion that my decissions mean anything and make a difference.
Not to mention the "My character is a jerk, so suck it up" player.

The next day I heard the GM basicly booted the dwarf from the game, because he was disruptive and kept arguing (with the sorcerer of course)... he was the best RPer of the bunch from what I saw, and among the only one that actually tried to play things logically. And certainly not the one that had started the arguments.

So yeah, not looked back on leaving that game.

[Traab]

Feh, should have told him, "If you want to play story hour, go to the library, im sure there is a group of children you can read to." I mean good lord! That wasnt even railroading, it was ignoring everyone else while you read the script. He probably would have had just as much fun if nobody else showed up and he could randomly roll for his made up groups battles all by himself. At least that way there wouldnt have been any whining from losers who actually want some control over what they do.

[Trellan]

I wouldn't say this one "kills" fun, but it's definitely annoying me right now: GMs that make you fight for the most insignificant things during character creation.

The example that's currently on my nerves: making characters for our first M&M campaign, second Ed. I'm making a shadow-based character, and thought it'd be fun to have some visual effects when I use powers, like a shadow aura when I throw a bolt or tendrils of shadow feeding into me when I create darkness, so I asked the GM if i could tack it onto my character. Mind you, I specifically mentioned I don't want any mechanical bonus for this, just something that I thought would be a fun visual effect, so I was curious if we could add it as some kind of free extra. His response? "just use hellfire or illusion or something"...

Now, after going back and forth a few times about how that's not even what I wanted to do in the first place, he's reluctantly agreed to a compromise that is kind of close to what I originally wanted. I'm just baffled as to why it was such a big deal to begin with.

[Traab]

That is odd, About the only reason I could think of for not wanting to allow that is if he was afraid you would find a way to use it mechanically anyways. "My shadowy aura blocks the view of the monsters of the player behind me, thats gotta be a minus to his chance to hit right?" Or something odd like that. Either that or he is just a contrary bastard, or someone lazy who wants to keep everything simple and straightforward so he doesnt have to remember any of these extras.

[Choco]

Railroad DM and jerk player story

Wow, I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did!

When it comes to jerk characters, I don't know what it is, but every time I think it would be fun to play a character that doesn't ignore everyone and/or isn't a total doormat, we get a player in the group who only ever plays condescending, insulting jerks. Then when I tell him OOC (after IC warnings had no effect, and for some reason the DM doesn't have consequences for constantly insulting the king..) that his character is VERY close to getting the fight he has been trying to pick, he of course snaps and screams that he is not going to change his character just to please me. Then again he is ALSO the kind of player who can only play characters of his own personality...

GMs that make you fight for the most insignificant things during character creation.

Oh that annoys the hell out of me too. I had a GM once who's only response to non-mechanical requests like that was "If you show me some place in the rules where this has precedent, then you can do it". Of course he was a:

Rules > Fun DM-This DM is attached at the hip to his rulebook. God help you if you want to do something that isn't specifically allowed by the rules: He never just makes a call, he spends sometimes half an hour sifting through countless books to find how something similar is done so he will know the exact mechanics of it. If you are lucky anyway, if he is in a bad mood he tells YOU to go find some sort of precedent or similar rule to what you want to do, and if you can find it then he will think about it. It doesn't matter if you are in the middle of a climactic battle or are just chilling in town after a grueling dungeon dive, the result is always the same.

[dsmiles]

Oh that annoys the hell out of me too. I had a GM once who's only response to non-mechanical requests like that was "If you show me some place in the rules where this has precedent, then you can do it". Of course he was a:

Rules > Fun DM-This DM is attached at the hip to his rulebook. God help you if you want to do something that isn't specifically allowed by the rules: He never just makes a call, he spends sometimes half an hour sifting through countless books to find how something similar is done so he will know the exact mechanics of it. If you are lucky anyway, if he is in a bad mood he tells YOU to go find some sort of precedent or similar rule to what you want to do, and if you can find it then he will think about it. It doesn't matter if you are in the middle of a climactic battle or are just chilling in town after a grueling dungeon dive, the result is always the same.

Oh, how I hate that. As a DM, if a rules search/argument takes more than the 1 minute 'combat round egg timer,' I just make the call, and we sort the rest out later, after the session. If I made a bad call, and it's something that can be fixed without impacting the story in such a way as to take away from the internal consistency, it get fixed. If fixing it impacts the story in such a way that would take away from the internal consistency, or I made a good call, it stands. To hell with looking up the rules during play, especially during the 1 minute you get to make decisions about what you're doing on your combat turn.

[Morquard]

Wow, I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did!

It really wasn't long. It was a PbP game as mentioned and those usually have a really slow pace to start with.
The first GM post happened around a day or maybe two or so after we started the game. If you know PbP, that's really just when things get started, since not all players post at the same time of day so sometimes you have to wait a while for an answer.
Basicly my character had said 5 sentences till that point.
Combat was really just 1 round, the sorcered cast Sleep and all 4 orcs failed the save. Add a few more to decide if its ok to coupe-de-grace them or tie them up (but the illusion of them ended then), and thats pretty much when we got railroaded along again.

As I said in RL-playtime it would have been around 20 minutes into the game at this point I think.

I might have to add, that before the game the DM seemed quite reasonable and worked with me to build a background for my character, especially all the roleplay parts. So I was looking forward to the game, and didn't want to bail at the very first sign of trouble.

That's another thing I don't like I guess: GMs that help you develop great backstories, make it seem as if thats important for them too, and then consider anything between combat encounters to be "wasted time"... yeah thanks for wasting my time making up all that background, or taking some feats/skills that are completely useless in combat, but fit the character or are for out-of-combat situations.

Originally Posted by Trellan
GMs that make you fight for the most insignificant things during character creation.

Well he might have been burned by it in the past, allowing seemingly harmless fluff into the game, that a few sessions later got turned around to kill the gods and rule the universe. So now he's extra careful.

[big teej]

Rules > Fun DM-This DM is attached at the hip to his rulebook. God help you if you want to do something that isn't specifically allowed by the rules: He never just makes a call, he spends sometimes half an hour sifting through countless books to find how something similar is done so he will know the exact mechanics of it. If you are lucky anyway, if he is in a bad mood he tells YOU to go find some sort of precedent or similar rule to what you want to do, and if you can find it then he will think about it. It doesn't matter if you are in the middle of a climactic battle or are just chilling in town after a grueling dungeon dive, the result is always the same.

I'm occaisionally guilty of this one.

but I feel that I'm pretty reasonable about it.

I think... =P

is it unreasonable to turn down cantrips - at will in 3.x?
for a bard?


I digress.

someone get this one in the rper's of genius thread so I can get another cure-light.

EDIT:
I totally forgot,
on the subject of play by posts.

DMs who run pbp as you would an IRL game.

for instance, in real life an exchange of
DM: gives description
player: asks a question
DM: gives answer
player: acts on information, asks new question
-repeat-
takes maybe 5 minutes at the table and isn't too bad.

when this same exchange is done on the play by post, you could take a week getting through putting the party together.

I suppose an alternate name for this DM would be "getting details is akin to pulling teeth" or "the detail dentist dm"

[Honest Tiefling]

Unless you want to check CharOp to see how many of the bard cantrips are broken, I think it is fair to deny them. I personally love it when I can use prestidigitation for some benefit, so I can see why at will is a no-no. Unless playing Pathfinder with that not expended business. Then, you don't allow them to prepare more then allowed.