Habits that kill fun in a session.

[WarKitty]

The Ultimatum Issuer-"Compromise" is not in this guy's vocabulary, and you have a choice of either doing things EXACTLY like he wants, or not at all. This could be limited to in character ("We are either doing my plan or I am sitting this one out"), but often it is also OOC ("We are either going to do <x>, or I am leaving").

I had a player like that once and dropped him ASAP. Unfortunately he was the ride for 2 other players and I then had to spend an extra hour total driving around town collecting everyone and then dropping them off. That was totally worth seeing the look on his face when we told him to get lost though, he really thought he had more leverage in the ride department then he really did.

The DM doing this isn't much better. I've walked off of a game because the DM was doing stupid stuff.

[Aasimar]

When a new player (or a player making a new character, though thats even more annoying, hostile even) makes a character that completely subsumes another characters role in the party. For example, if your character is the pilot or the hacker or something primarily, something that doesn't really need two people in a team, and a new guy comes along who is just ever-so-slightly better, making your character obsolete and with lots of useless skill/feat/talent investments.

[Silus]

Was that the guy that read the floating, glowing book?

Yes. Yes he was. (At least his second character tried to after he retired his Owlbear)

In a story, you're pretty much doomed. Reading the evil demon book, or walking into murky basement of the evil castle, or licking your finger and jamming it into the eyeball of a rampaging Mummy Lord... sure, they're bad ideas, but you're going to die a cold and lonely death even if you just go home and hide under your sheets, so you might as well have fun first.

In a game, there's at least a chance that your character will still be more or less in one piece at the end of the session. Strategic thinking is a lot more welcome since most games -- railroading aside -- aren't a relentless march to oblivion.

That being said, I don't see what's "not keeping with the spirit" of the genre to play a character who isn't genre-savvy. If the character has a reason to mess with the demon scroll, then they can do it. Is it really good role-playing to avoid something for no other reason than, "I -- the player -- know this is a horror game and to avoid everything that looks even vaguely innocuous."

Well you have to remember the setting:

Plane: Carceri (The Prison Plane), layer 1
Location: A "normal" Victorian/New England style house (two floors), painted sky blue with a porch and porch swing. Looks to be in perfect condition and surrounded by a vast expanse of lush, green grass (which is on a layer composed mostly of jagged mountains, sulfur vents, and bogs).

Given that, most of the players had the right idea to be at least wary. Mr. Owlbear? Not so much. Even when things started coming out of the walls.

And as far as I could tell, the player's main reason for going upstairs along and doing most things on his own was simple greed. Trying to find loot and treasure and that sort of stuff. Heck, his second character (his Owlbear was left on the Wheel of Time world after some quick world-hopping to buy me time to think of what to do next. Second character was a Dread Necromancer worshipping a "Lich God/King" on Azeroth *Eye roll*) deliberately tried to read the book in the hopes of gaining excessive powers. All while he and the group was back in the house, in the Library which looked like Karazahn (World of Warcraft) mixed with M.C. Escher. Oh, and there was a sea of Shadows (And Nightwalkers) chasing them up through the Library.

[big teej]

I both agree with you and applaud your use of an excellent word like popinjay, which has unfortunately fallen into disfavor.

thanks

though I must confess I couldn't remember whether it was spelled with hyphens

When a new player (or a player making a new character, though thats even more annoying, hostile even) makes a character that completely subsumes another characters role in the party. For example, if your character is the pilot or the hacker or something primarily, something that doesn't really need two people in a team, and a new guy comes along who is just ever-so-slightly better, making your character obsolete and with lots of useless skill/feat/talent investments.

oooh I (sorta) have this problem in my school group.
the party consists of
My Knight
Halfing Rogue
Gnome Alchemist
Human? cleric
Warforged Fighter.
Half-Orc Barbarian

in the event my knight dies, I've got scores of character concepts ready to see play.

unfortunately, the barbarian's presents takes about half of them off the table, because I won't, categorically will not, purposefully show someone up at their job.

the Half-orc is our primary beatstick (whenever I'm not hogging the baddies) so I can't bring in a barbarian that does that job better. this eliminates essentially all of my Knight, Fighter, and Barbarian characters

my rogues are also removed due to the halfling.

this admitedly leaves me with few choices that I'm super excited to play.

I've since settled on either an incarnate or a duskblade

[Blazen]

When a new player (or a player making a new character, though thats even more annoying, hostile even) makes a character that completely subsumes another characters role in the party. For example, if your character is the pilot or the hacker or something primarily, something that doesn't really need two people in a team, and a new guy comes along who is just ever-so-slightly better, making your character obsolete and with lots of useless skill/feat/talent investments.

I've had the opposite happen to me. My first time playing Dark Heresy I rolled up an Assassin. Turns out the local munchkin who was already part of the group had an Assassin as well. This shouldn't have been an issue, but the munchkin decided to take every opportunity to show me that his character was better than mine, no matter what. Like I said, he was a munchkin so no matter despite me specializing in dual wielding, and him being a sniper, if I tried to melee he would rush in too just to prove he was better. Though this was slightly alleviated thanks to another habit of his:

The guy who plays 2 games. Since we're playing at a FLGS, he doesn't simply sit on his laptop, he's in 2 separate groups that run games at the same time. He would bounce between tables.

[Aasimar]

thanks

though I must confess I couldn't remember whether it was spelled with hyphens



oooh I (sorta) have this problem in my school group.
the party consists of
My Knight
Halfing Rogue
Gnome Alchemist
Human? cleric
Warforged Fighter.
Half-Orc Barbarian

in the event my knight dies, I've got scores of character concepts ready to see play.

unfortunately, the barbarian's presents takes about half of them off the table, because I won't, categorically will not, purposefully show someone up at their job.

the Half-orc is our primary beatstick (whenever I'm not hogging the baddies) so I can't bring in a barbarian that does that job better. this eliminates essentially all of my Knight, Fighter, and Barbarian characters

my rogues are also removed due to the halfling.

this admitedly leaves me with few choices that I'm super excited to play.

I've since settled on either an incarnate or a duskblade

Well, in a d&d group, I wouldn't really call 'dealing out lots of melee damage' a schtick that any one person can lay claim to. If there's a melee fighter who really shines, then just going a slightly different route is enough in a combat heavy game like d&d. A fighter, especially a shield wielding heavy armor fighter or a dual wielder would be sufficiently different for such play. Perhaps focusing more on melee controlling or something.

If you're talking 3.x it's even more true.

The problem I'm referring to comes into play only when the new guy makes your guy pretty useless to have around. Even at worst, two identical melee fighters are still able to cooperate and dish out at least double the damage of one melee fighter. Not so if you both go for 'party leader' or something. (it's more evident in games like when I was playing Starwars, and my character was the pilot, then a new guy comes along with a better pilot, and all of the sudden, my character must basically sit by and do nothing on trips. (or provide a passive +2 aid another bonus as co-pilot)

[big teej]

Well, in a d&d group, I wouldn't really call 'dealing out lots of melee damage' a schtick that any one person can lay claim to. If there's a melee fighter who really shines, then just going a slightly different route is enough in a combat heavy game like d&d. A fighter, especially a shield wielding heavy armor fighter or a dual wielder would be sufficiently different for such play. Perhaps focusing more on melee controlling or something.

If you're talking 3.x it's even more true.

The problem I'm referring to comes into play only when the new guy makes your guy pretty useless to have around. Even at worst, two identical melee fighters are still able to cooperate and dish out at least double the damage of one melee fighter. Not so if you both go for 'party leader' or something. (it's more evident in games like when I was playing Starwars, and my character was the pilot, then a new guy comes along with a better pilot, and all of the sudden, my character must basically sit by and do nothing on trips. (or provide a passive +2 aid another bonus as co-pilot)

I mostly was refering to playing a "better barbarian" which struck me as just rude

that said, i totally get it, I have a similar-sorta issue in a savage worlds campaign, I've taken the idea of the "badass normal" type guy... his only power is a healing factor, and he fights almost exclusively with firearms.
cue another player playing an assassin, who does the "fighting" thing better in general.

so now I've taken up the whole "nyah nyah I can pass for human" schtick haha

[Honest Tiefling]

I think I agree with Aasimar, especially when you have more then three people in the group! Just make a melee or rogue build to complement your buddy

If the barbarian is a beat stick, consider a trip build. Prone does give an AC penalty to melee attacks, after all. I'm better sure there are barbarian trip builds. I would still ask, but make it clear you intend to focus on tripping, not damage.

Is the hafling melee or an archer? Do the other one, or set up flanking bonuses. Heck, I think there are the Nightsong prestige classes are geared to this, unless I am hallucinating.

Take different non-combat skills. If they are a sneak, pick up gather information or sense motive. I would say double up on Spot and Listen, and just have your PC ask the other dude to help scout and keep an eye out. I don't think any PC really gets a right to claim that one for themselves.

[Traab]

Second character was a Dread Necromancer worshipping a "Lich God/King" on Azeroth *Eye roll*) deliberately tried to read the book in the hopes of gaining excessive powers.

You see now, in that context, his decision makes at least some sense. Obviously this glowing book has something to do with all the foul evil nightmarish crap going on. As a dread necro, (despite the stupid religion) it makes sense that he would want to try and claim that power for himself. It would be like a barbarian fighter grabbing a gigantic glowing axe that according to the lore, will kill something with every swing. A barbarian might not be bright enough to realize that that includes him and his party, not just his enemies. :p

[Flame of Anor]

thanks

though I must confess I couldn't remember whether it was spelled with hyphens

Nope, no hyphens.

unfortunately, the barbarian's presents

That, however, is spelled with a -ce.

[big teej]

Nope, no hyphens.



That, however, is spelled with a -ce.

indeed it is.
I wasn't paying attention apparently

that's not a mistake I normally make
odd.

[Hiro Protagonest]

indeed it is.
I wasn't paying attention apparently

that's not a mistake I normally make
odd.

The barbarian didn't get any presents?

[Flame of Anor]

The barbarian didn't get any presents?

no frightful presents? thog rage!

[archon_huskie]

Railroading GM script - Not only does the GM make you follow his plot, you have to follow the script that only he can see.

I was playing in a pbp. I had established that my character as a noble, who was admittedly a bit of a jerk. The GM started the game at the gates of the city where the macguff had been stolen from.

The city guard is searching everyone coming into the city. My character rides up to the guards and asks to know what is happening. I tell the GM that my intention is to relay this information to the people at the end of the line. Instead the guards tell me to go back to my place in line.

So I try pulling my noble rank. So the the captain of the guard tells me to go back in line or he'll have the guards beat me. I gain mention my noble rank and pull from my character background of my family having an alliance with the city for several generations.

I'm told, by the captain of the guard, that if I don't get back in line that the alliance will be ended, and war declared

So I turn and head home and quit the game. One of the other players pmed me and told me that HE quit when the GM claimed the Captain of the Guard was LG and a paladin.

[ScrambledBrains]

Not quite sure what to call this, but here's one I'm guilty of.

The Player who prefers the actual outcome of the event to the DM abjucating.

Ex. I was a halfling Rogue with a pair of gauntlets that made me immune to ice damage, at the expense of 1.5 times fire damage. The group ended up fighting a Red Dragon and after taking some other attacks, I got caught in his fire breath due to an extremely subpar Reflex Save. Everyone had forgot the Gauntlets, so we just thought I had been reduced to single digit health, and we won before I got hit again. After, my brain remembered the gauntlets and recalculated the damage...I would have died. The DM decided not to worry about it, but initially, I wanted my character dead so it would be the way it should have been, though the group convinced me to let it go. Ironically, my character died a session later due to a mis-fired Arrow of Disintigration.

[big teej]

Not quite sure what to call this, but here's one I'm guilty of.

The Player who prefers the actual outcome of the event to the DM abjucating.

Ex. I was a halfling Rogue with a pair of gauntlets that made me immune to ice damage, at the expense of 1.5 times fire damage. The group ended up fighting a Red Dragon and after taking some other attacks, I got caught in his fire breath due to an extremely subpar Reflex Save. Everyone had forgot the Gauntlets, so we just thought I had been reduced to single digit health, and we won before I got hit again. After, my brain remembered the gauntlets and recalculated the damage...I would have died. The DM decided not to worry about it, but initially, I wanted my character dead so it would be the way it should have been, though the group convinced me to let it go. Ironically, my character died a session later due to a mis-fired Arrow of Disintigration.

interesting... in the same given situation, I likely would have made the same call. "oh well... I'll just getcha next time"

although in a similar vein. I'd rather be killed off/horribly maimed/fail than have the DM pull a "miraculously! you survive"

[archon_huskie]

Not quite sure what to call this, but here's one I'm guilty of.

The Player who prefers the actual outcome of the event to the DM abjucating.

Ex. I was a halfling Rogue with a pair of gauntlets that made me immune to ice damage, at the expense of 1.5 times fire damage. The group ended up fighting a Red Dragon and after taking some other attacks, I got caught in his fire breath due to an extremely subpar Reflex Save. Everyone had forgot the Gauntlets, so we just thought I had been reduced to single digit health, and we won before I got hit again. After, my brain remembered the gauntlets and recalculated the damage...I would have died. The DM decided not to worry about it, but initially, I wanted my character dead so it would be the way it should have been, though the group convinced me to let it go. Ironically, my character died a session later due to a mis-fired Arrow of Disintigration.

Sometimes, when a mistake happens it is more effort to retroactivly fix it. and if it is the mistake is in the player's favor . . .

[ScrambledBrains]

Sometimes, when a mistake happens it is more effort to retroactivly fix it. and if it is the mistake is in the player's favor . . .

True. Just the part of me that likes to make sure the rules are being applied equally to all parties, players included.

[navar100]

Not quite sure what to call this, but here's one I'm guilty of.

The Player who prefers the actual outcome of the event to the DM abjucating.

Ex. I was a halfling Rogue with a pair of gauntlets that made me immune to ice damage, at the expense of 1.5 times fire damage. The group ended up fighting a Red Dragon and after taking some other attacks, I got caught in his fire breath due to an extremely subpar Reflex Save. Everyone had forgot the Gauntlets, so we just thought I had been reduced to single digit health, and we won before I got hit again. After, my brain remembered the gauntlets and recalculated the damage...I would have died. The DM decided not to worry about it, but initially, I wanted my character dead so it would be the way it should have been, though the group convinced me to let it go. Ironically, my character died a session later due to a mis-fired Arrow of Disintigration.

I can understand this. When you realized the error it felt like you cheated. You didn't, and no one says you did, but it's just there. This isn't a bad habit. The concept could be with a hypothetical player being a hard-nosed Rules Lawyer who just can't let it go when a DM let's something slide by fiat or house rule a situation that favors a player character/party despite the rules saying otherwise. Said player gets a hissy fit over it and continually argues for the rules to be followed. In your case here, you weren't being a rules lawyer, just honest, and that honesty made you feel guilty of getting away with something even though you didn't get away with anything.

[Captain Six]

That is a somewhat no-win situation. Sure you might have made an error but letting that error slide was the best thing to do. Going back and reviving the dragon after what must have been a dramatic fight would shatter immersion and cheapen the battle for everyone. It might have wrecked the fight for you but I'm sure everyone else forgot about it, which is better than wrecking the fight for everyone.

[ScrambledBrains]

I can understand this. When you realized the error it felt like you cheated. You didn't, and no one says you did, but it's just there. This isn't a bad habit. The concept could be with a hypothetical player being a hard-nosed Rules Lawyer who just can't let it go when a DM let's something slide by fiat or house rule a situation that favors a player character/party despite the rules saying otherwise. Said player gets a hissy fit over it and continually argues for the rules to be followed. In your case here, you weren't being a rules lawyer, just honest, and that honesty made you feel guilty of getting away with something even though you didn't get away with anything.

Yeah, that was basically it. Course, I let it go once my fellow players convinced me to...and my character died next session anyway, so the universe balenced itself.

That is a somewhat no-win situation. Sure you might have made an error but letting that error slide was the best thing to do. Going back and reviving the dragon after what must have been a dramatic fight would shatter immersion and cheapen the battle for everyone. It might have wrecked the fight for you but I'm sure everyone else forgot about it, which is better than wrecking the fight for everyone.

True.

[Choco]

Mr. Don't Mind Me, I'll be Over Here Playing Video Games-As soon as he is not the focus of attention, this guy turns around and starts playing some video game, full volume, on his surround sound system which of course is all in the same room as the gaming table. Of course this inevitably distracts everyone else. Then when someone points this out, he gets pissy and complains that he has nothing else to do, so he can't see what the problem is.

[137beth]

Mr. Don't Mind Me, I'll be Over Here Playing Video Games-As soon as he is not the focus of attention, this guy turns around and starts playing some video game, full volume, on his surround sound system which of course is all in the same room as the gaming table. Of course this inevitably distracts everyone else. Then when someone points this out, he gets pissy and complains that he has nothing else to do, so he can't see what the problem is.

Wow, you get to play D&D once a week, and videogames as often as you want. He must have a really short attention span.

[big teej]

much to my chagrin, I have finally encountered a player that has been mentioned in this thread several times.


Mr. "sorry, I've got something better to do on my laptop"

whether it be Nyancat, wow, facebook, whatever.

hopping on the net and surfing while people are talking is something you do to someone that's wasting your time.

am I wasting your time?

and if I'm wasting so much of your precious time mayhap you should stop coming? so that you may put it to better use.





coupled with the above.

mister "I know you asked me to do x, but what I'm doing is obviously way more important"

this isn't someone who's had real life get in the way of gaming, this is someone who has decided to completely ignore the DM

case in point.

last session, we were running a combat, one player became privy to private information, since we play outside, I tend to ask my players to "take a walk with me" outside earshot of the table and tell them. I had just asked a player to take a walk with me, and as I left I stopped and called out the next 3 players and initiative and said "please plan your turn out so you know what you're doing when I get back"

so I walk out the 30 or so feet from the group as is customary, say my piece, answer any questions the player has, and walk back to the table.

DM:ME: "so -player- whatcha doin this round?"
30 second pause until player realizes I'm talking to them.
player: -looks at me in a rather bewildered manner- -player looks at grid and leans forward as if paying attention for the first time- "uhm...... I... advance... toooo... here and cast ... uhm... -scans list- Prayer




*in my particular instance, it's "miss" not mister, but whatever

[JediSoth]

Has anyone actually confiscated cell phones during a game? I mean really done it, not just talked about it. 'Cause I'm telling you right now, if I sat down at a table and the DM told everyone to hand in their phones, I would walk.

My wife doesn't call me during a game. She knows that's MY time. She will text from time to time (Do you think you'll be home on time?, etc.), but not to chit-chat. If she ever did call during a game, I KNOW it would be an emergency. Plus, I'm pretty protective of my personal property. I paid $200 for my smartphone. I pay the bill. Why should I give it to you? I'm an adult. If I'm being disruptive, I will apologize and fix my behavior.

Some of the solutions I've seen in this thread are just as bad as some of the behavior, just in the opposite direction. The lack of compromise and "my way or the highway" attitude kills MY fun.

The worst of the problems I've ever dealt with is attendance. No-shows with no warning just really irritate me, especially when I spent a lot of time on game prep. Most of the time that prep doesn't get wasted (I can just use it again next week), but when I was running D&D 3.X, a lot of the work of prep was making sure the encounters were appropriate to the party (I didn't want to have to constantly fudge and tweak on-the-fly to avoid TPKs), and that was really hard to do when I didn't know which characters would be at any one session. We even had a message board set up so people could RSVP to games, and inevitably, at least one or two wouldn't.

I did have one guy get killed, then make his replacement character using only books I expressly omitted from my replacement character guidelines (the initial set up was "anything goes," which I quickly learned was not good for that campaign, so I revised it for replacements and I did inform everyone, in writing & in person, so ignorance was NOT an excuse as he attended every session). The character was clearly designed to be the type to overshadow and overpower everything and anything that could possibly exist. I also suspect that he would often "forget" to track ammunition and damage (another player brought this to my attention, so it wasn't just me).

The one thing that gets my goat when I'm joining a new campaign is when the other players "haze" your PC and the GM won't put a stop to it, even though it's obvious they're just being mean to the new guy. What made it worse what that my character was not equipped to the same level as the other players, so even though I was the same level, I was not effective against them in PvP if I chose to defend myself. Perhaps, because of this, I despise PvP in all forms. I don't think it's an illegitimate way of having fun, but it is not something I enjoy, nor is it something in which I will willingly participate. A Confusion spell is one thing, shooting the new guy with arrows when you're traveling because "I don't trust him" is BS.

[big teej]

I've never confiscated phones, nor threatened to do so, that's outside my perview as a DM.

what IS within my power, is insisting that players turn them off unless they're expecting an important phone call or something.

best friend going through a bad break up in need of morale support? fine
on call at work - fine
parents need to be able to reach you - fine
non-gamer buddy "just wants to chat" - not so much.

I'm in the same boat though, if a group told me to turn in my phone/laptop/whatever at the start of a session, I'd tell them to stuff it and leave*



*naturally after pleading my case in a reasonable, mature, and calm manner.

as for "everything goes" sourcelists

everytime I get a new sourcebook, I read it cover to cover and then make a call on all material contained therein, on a case by case basis if necessary.

for instance, within my group, every book is on the table with three exceptions

Oriental Adventures is made available only upon request, as it falls well outside things needed regularly (I only use the equpiment and armor lists for shopping, everything else goes unused)

the Book of Vile Darkness - a proscribed work, few of my players really need something from here, and as such they're not allowed to go through it... because I use alot from there

the book of exalted deeds - debatebely more restricted than it's evil counterpart, mostly for its god-awful take on the morality of exalted characters.

so far there is a single thing from it in use, the sacred relic feat. by a paladin played by my best player.

[Silus]

You see now, in that context, his decision makes at least some sense. Obviously this glowing book has something to do with all the foul evil nightmarish crap going on. As a dread necro, (despite the stupid religion) it makes sense that he would want to try and claim that power for himself. It would be like a barbarian fighter grabbing a gigantic glowing axe that according to the lore, will kill something with every swing. A barbarian might not be bright enough to realize that that includes him and his party, not just his enemies. :p

Well you need to look at the context in which the book was found:

The house was "awake" when the Dread Necro ended up there. The walls were warping like in the LoZ:OoT's Forest Temple, the laws of physics were being thrown out the door, and the whole place had the feeling of 1408, Silent Hill, and Shadelight all rolled into one neat little ball of terror.

Thinking about it now, I should have killed his character off when he read the book. Seriously, this book was like if you mixed the Necronomicon, the Carcosa Codex, the Book of Vile Darkness and the F.A.T.A.L. book all into one (or at least F.A.T.A.L.'s sanity killing powers). And he picks it up and READS it.

*Shakes head and sighs* Gonna have to give it stats next time I use it. Two negative levels when a non-evil being holds it, will save to avoid turning Evil, another will save to keep sanity, and maybe a few other things just from holding it...

[Ashram]

More things that happen at my table that makes me want to strangle my players:

1. Mr. "That's Enough"

Be prepared to never get a legitimate roll total from this kind of player; he'll roll his die and say, "That's enough", no matter the actual total or even the roll. Saves? Attack rolls? Skill checks? He can clearly meet them all with such ease that he feels he doesn't need to tell the DM the outcome of his die roll.

2. Mr. "Deity Hipster"

Your Pathfinder games have the Pathfinder deities? Well tough cookies, because this player is going to go ahead and worship Mystra, Pathfinder pantheon regardless. Never mind the fact that whatever nonexistent/obscure deity the player chooses to venerate isn't even in your pantheon and the character would have never heard of them, they refuse to budge on it, possibly even stating, "If my deity doesn't exist, I'll just make them up; if I worship it it'll turn into a god."

[Hiro Protagonest]

2. Mr. "Deity Hipster"

Your Pathfinder games have the Pathfinder deities? Well tough cookies, because this player is going to go ahead and worship Mystra, Pathfinder pantheon regardless. Never mind the fact that whatever nonexistent/obscure deity the player chooses to venerate isn't even in your pantheon and the character would have never heard of them, they refuse to budge on it, possibly even stating, "If my deity doesn't exist, I'll just make them up; if I worship it it'll turn into a god."

His spells never work, because they weren't there in the first place. People see him as a crazy dude. All attack do double damage against him and you impose a penalty to his saving throws (he never needs to know about this), because he's actually a commoner, so all his saving throws have the bad progression and he has a d4 hit die.

[Ashram]

His spells never work, because they weren't there in the first place. People see him as a crazy dude. All attack do double damage against him and you impose a penalty to his saving throws (he never needs to know about this), because he's actually a commoner, so all his saving throws have the bad progression and he has a d4 hit die.

Usually, the player who pulls this isn't a divine caster to begin with, so spells are never a problem. People usually do see him as crazy. The player simply has a giant hard-on for Faerûn, no matter what the setting is.