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Thread: How good is Blink?
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2013-02-26, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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How good is Blink?
As a 4th level Wizard, I've been thinking about which spells to take at next level. Besides the staples like Haste, Fly, and Stinking Cloud, I've been considering Blink. It looks to me like it has decent utility for sneaking through walls, and providing an escape route, though the short duration is killer. But I've never seen it on any lists of good spells. Is there something I'm missing? Is it just not that good in practice?
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2013-02-26, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Great on archers, especially on Rogue archers.
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2013-02-26, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
As said, it's mostly for rogues as it enables sneak attack. Combine with Seeking for best results.
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2013-02-26, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
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2013-02-26, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
It provides utility and defense, both of which aren't that special. And as a squishy wizard do you really want to be alone on the other side of a wall or door, where there may or may not be enemies, while you take an unknown amount of time to figure out how to let your party in?
So that leaves defense, which displacement does just as well except it can target party members and it doesn't give you a 20% failure chance. Even then, I'd rather be attacking. For defense I instead prefer all day buffs like mage armor and false life. Defensive immediate action spells or abilities are sweet too. Combats are so short that losing even one early round greatly reduces your effectiveness.
A ring of blinking OTOH is a common rogue item for sneak attacking. It's also good for scouting because you can cross a wall and come back quickly all day long, rather than burning a spell slot every time you want to check a side passage.Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-26 at 02:42 AM.
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2013-02-26, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
The really annoying thing about the Ring of Blinking is that it's an item that you could have active all day, in every combat... if you refresh it every 7 rounds. Which isn't very practical.
It's pretty good when you have a buff round, or when you just don't have any other way to get off some Sneak Attack, and for utility, but it's not some kind of godsend.Halfling healer avatar by Akrim.elf.
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2013-02-26, 04:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
For all its properties, Blink has a few drawbacks.
You can be hit reliably with force effects.
You can be hit reliably with abjurations. Dimensional anchor comes to mind, which would negate the effect for a good amount of time.
Pierce Magical Protection I believe can get through the miss chance.
True Seeing states that you can see into the Ethereal, but it does not cover very well if it negates the miss chance as well.
See Invisibility does the same as above, I believe.
Transdimensional Spell will ignore it completely, but force effects do the job just as well.
I-m sure there are more spells, feats or even PrC that can see through a blink. Ghostfaced Killer springs to mind.
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2013-02-26, 05:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
If you can survive the Angels...
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2013-02-26, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
*snrk*
Actually, that spell would be an exercise in absolute frustration for the Weeping Angels. If we assume that they can move while you're Blinking, by definition they'd be able to touch you only when they cannot move and unable to touch you when they CAN move. How annoying would that be!
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2013-02-26, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
I'm not sure you're using that term properly in this context. The things you mentioned are more like counters than drawbacks; in addition, forcing the enemy to counter your buff is a win for you because that's a round where they're not doing anything else. This is especially true for silver bullets like Dimensional Anchor, which deals no damage and otherwise has no effect on the outcome of the fight. That one even has an attack roll and SR to worry about, and can be dispelled if you really need it off.
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2013-02-26, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Handbooks:
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2013-02-26, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2013-02-26, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
RAI the combo shouldn't work because you're on another friggin' plane. Even with RAW that's a bit of a logical contradiction because the spell does say you are on another plane 20% of the time. The combo basically grants seeking the ability to cross planar boundaries by converting the effect of crossing planar boundaries into a miss chance.
Blink does have the small advantage of becoming ethereal way earlier than normal. You can go through a wall or door and quickly back. You can give yourself essentially 10% failure (50%*20%) at casting spells against incorporeal foes instead of 50% failure. If such challenges are common I might prepare blink instead of displacement; otherwise I wouldn't. And the thing is, I don't even prepare displacement that often. I'd be more likely to use [empowered] magic missile against low level incorporeals because it's also reliable against other things, disintegrate walls when at high enough level that bypassing barriers actually matters, etc.Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-26 at 11:53 AM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
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2013-02-26, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Are you? In actuality, you're flashing back and forth between them very rapidly. Not only is it RAW, it's pretty easy to justify - say the enchantment on the projectile allows it to leave your presence at the exact moment that you are on the Material, every single time you fire, without fail. It's not like you're sitting on the Ethereal and firing potshots into the Material - that obviously wouldn't work. It's merely a timing thing, and the enchantment simply makes your timing impeccable.
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2013-02-26, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Actually ethereal is better than incoporeal, incorporeals can't by RAW go through a wall (they can inside a wall though) since a wall has bigger space than them.
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2013-02-26 at 11:57 AM.
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2013-02-26, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
The combo basically finds a way to plane shift via seeking... you can try to provide a fluff explanation for it but that's what's going on. If you can find ways to turn some other effects into miss chances, you could do some interesting things with seeking. Like if you could somehow get an ability to turn cover into a miss chance, seeking could go through walls.
By the way that's worded an incorporeal can go through a wall as long as it is 5 feet thick or thinner, which is most walls. At 6 feet the incorporeal is in trouble, unless he's large size.Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-26 at 12:04 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2013-02-26, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
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2013-02-26, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
The point of that combination, as I understand, is to foil people who can see through Invisibility. You create a spell that does nothing against someone who doesn't have See Invis or True Seeing up - including yourself - but successfully hides you from people who are running those effects. So you can stand ten feet away from a guy with See Invisibility and laugh as he stumbles around blind when everybody else can see.
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2013-02-26, 12:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
No, it's not. YOU are plane shifting, back and forth rapidly, for the duration of the power. The Seeking enchantment is simply able to target, without error, those brief windows when you are material - possibly even slowing or speeding up the arrow on a quantum level to make sure it hits that window. (Note that it doesn't even matter whether the enchantment is on the bow or on the arrows themselves for this - the result is the same.)
Remember that when the projectile leaves you, it is not subject to the spell anymore as it is no longer in your possession. So if you are material when it leaves your square, the arrow will stay material until it hits your target.
Your other example doesn't apply; walls and other solid barriers count as cover (AC bonus), not concealment (miss chance.)Last edited by Psyren; 2013-02-26 at 12:28 PM.
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2013-02-26, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
The thing is, if you find a way to convert anything else at all into a miss chance it would also apply. And explaining it is more patching on fluff than anything.
Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-26 at 12:49 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2013-02-26, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2013-02-26, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
What's worse is that hitting incorporeal creatures in general is often described as a "miss chance". That's how the 50% chance to not hit incorporeal creatures with a magic weapons is described in the rules compendium for example; in fact it says that it will not stack with other miss chances such as concealment. In other places the same rule is described as a "50% chance to ignore any damage." The first lets seeking include ghost touch for the same price as ghost touch, while the second gives no additional benefit.
So going by that, the Rules Compendium upgraded seeking.
... Or you could say "The weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply" only allows veering.Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-26 at 12:59 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2013-02-26, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
That's not actually a miss chance, it's a 50% chance to be ignore the damage. ("Incorporeality - Harming", RC 64). Effectively similar, but the difference is still key.
I do know that it's erroneously compared to concealment elsewhere in the book, but the primary source for Incorporeal rules is under the Incorporeal entry on the page I cited.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2013-02-26, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
Pierce magic concealment counters blink, not pierce magic protection. So you need mageslayer and blindfight to get it. Which leads us to the efficacy of mage killers that don't use magic outright.
PMP ignores and dispels AC boosters like shield, luminous armor, and barkskin. But not bracers of armor, amulet of natural armor, regular magic armor...
It might've been said, but True Seeing lets someone see you while you're ethereal. It doesn't do anything to let you hit soemone on the ethereal plane, or time your attacks to wait for them to appear on the material plane. And since you can see them, you're not flatfooted against an invisible person.
If you can see them, they're stationary (ery?), even if you're Blinking. That's how their quantum thing worked. So they just have to get behind you and keep swiping/grabbing until they get you on the material plane.
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2013-02-26, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-02-26, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
I know. It was my first thought when I saw the title of the thread.
That episode was my real intro to the show (what happened in the 80s doesn't count), I spent a good while thinking about it while waiting to get my hands on more episodes.
Probably pretty frustrating for the angels to be sitting there and unable to move, even when the room is empty (on the material plane). Too bad for them, there's an ethereal person staring at them.
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2013-02-26, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
You could just as easily say that the "miss chance" in blink is an erroneous description. It probably is.
The RAW method of hitting the target is still veering regardless. If you try to add a new method every time you see a new source of miss chance unrelated to accuracy, then well that is completely made up. You can try to force it to work with varying degrees of success depending on the source, but it is an arbitrary addition regardless of how plausible or ludicrous (depending on the source) that fluff may be.Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-26 at 03:11 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2013-02-26, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
You could, but that's irrelevant to RAW.
I'm not disputing that; "veering" doesn't contradict my explanation at all. My fluff justification for the RAW was this - the enchantment ensures the projectile hits the "material window" via quantum adjustments to the timing of its flight. As the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, any adjustments to the trajectory of the arrow (say, to make it a slight arc) will affect the timing of the strike. Thus "veering" fits right into my explanation.
You don't have to follow my narrative - you're free to come up with your own. That's the beauty of fluff. But the RAW is that Seeking arrows ignore the miss chance from Blink, so the flavor path taken to get there is ultimately irrelevant.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2013-02-26, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
The reason I asked is not because of the Seeking enchantment (which seems to work here) but because you cannot sneak attack if your target is obscured by any kind of concealment.
Originally Posted by PHB/SRD
Originally Posted by PHB/SRD
Originally Posted by PHB/SRD
What I'm asking is this: is the 20% miss chance of "not being there" the same effect as concealment, or is it a separate/different effect entirely?Last edited by Darrin; 2013-02-26 at 03:56 PM.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2013-02-26, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: How good is Blink?
It's the same 20% miss chance attackers have against you when they can see Ethereal creatures, which removes the concealment aspect of it (that you are effectively invisible to material creatures while Ethereal.) It's not concealment; you can aim perfectly well while Blinking, there's just a chance your target won't physically be in the space you are intending to strike when you make your attack.