Doctor Who (again) [SPOILERS]

[Aidan305]

She WAS--she mentioned how the Doctor had something to do with her sister and a bunch of miners!

Nope, completely different Silurian. Different name.

Also, I'm pretty confident that the London Underground was never mentioned in The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood.

[Kato]

*incoherent babbling*

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Okay, so the epileptic trees really were ill... Okay, the idea has been around since... dunno, somewhere in season 5. The episode with the angels when Amy and River met? I think there was something happening then but I'm too lazy to go back, really.
I dismissed the thought wuite a while ago and didn't really dare going back to it but... well, I got it at the same time the Doctor did, slightly later because I just made the connection when he lost control over his facial muscles again. Okay, I got it slightly earlier but wasn't sure until that happened. It was the only explanation for such a slip of control.
I was actually suspecting the army chick until almost the very end...

Anyway, I liked the episode even though I felt the picking up of the people took a tad long and the Sith monks were... a bit too much Sith, I guess but meh. I was still pretty pleased with about anything else. (And I disliked the second flesh clone. That was... cheap but meh... never change a running system I guess.)

Yeah... dunno about the next episode. I don't fell like thinking of it yet. Too far away. The thought of the Doctor drilling Amy's daughter is bad enough...

As for all the stuff people suddenly seem to think to know for sure... wouldn't it be way too easy if River was the astronaut who killed the Doctor because she was made to kill him? Seems way too obvious to me... of course, mayb ethey will go for 'so obvious you never saw it coming'.
I won't make any decisions yet...

Oh my god, future Doctor, take that thing out of Melody, ew!!!!

[Mauve Shirt]

WHAT THE WHAT. AND NOW I HAVE TO WAIT TIL SEPTEMBER?!

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THAT'S SO WEIRD. They met their daughter when she was older than they were! It's going to be pretty hard raising that baby when they know who she's going to grow up to be.

Let's Kill Hitler. Good episode title.

[Triscuitable]

Cool, the series resumes in BLOODY FREAKING SEPTEMBER?!

At least I bought the first three SEASONS, not Series of the 1960's show. "The Daleks" is an amazing episode.

[The Big Dice]

At least I bought the first three SEASONS, not Series of the 1960's show. "The Daleks" is an amazing episode.

If you mean The Beginning box set, that's just the first three stories. Back in the day, Doctor Who was serials rather than self contained episodes. And a series could go for up to a year in the black and white days.

[Starscream]

Incidentally, for those who like me are horrified at the prospect of no Who until September, if you have a Netflix Account there are a good number of classic serials stream-able online.

I recommend The Three Doctors (featuring the first three together), the Mind Robber (my favorite 2nd Doctor story), and anything with Tom Baker.

[Weezer]

Incidentally, for those who like me are horrified at the prospect of no Who until September, if you have a Netflix Account there are a good number of classic serials stream-able online.

I recommend The Three Doctors (featuring the first three together), the Mind Robber (my favorite 2nd Doctor story), and anything with Tom Baker.

Actually thats a question I've been meaning to ask:
What are some of the best old Who serials? I'm really interested in watching some of them but don't have time to wade through decades of episodes, so far I've watched the City of Death and Genesis of the Daleks, both of which I really enjoyed. Anyone have recommendations of others to look up?

[Drolyt]

Pyramids of Mars is a good story.

As for the latest episode, just saw it, loved it. The whole thing was brilliant. I especially loved Rory taking yet another level in badass, and whatever he thinks the centurion outfit was awesome. He was also awesome going all Jedi on the headless monks. Seriously, ever part was awesome, right up to the reveal. It wasn't as good as The Doctor's Wife, but it was damn good.

[The Big Dice]

Anyone have recommendations of others to look up?

The Daleks, Tomb of the Cybermen, Inferno, The Brain of Morbius, Caves of Androzani, The Two Doctors and Remembrance of the Daleks. That's one serial per Doctor for the first seven of them. Should keep you busy for a few days

[Corvus]

Okay, River Song's timeline is so ridiculously convoluted that I don't think it can possibly make any sense any more.

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She is born to the 11th Doctor's companions - who she knew before she was born.

She was stolen at birth and at some stage the Doctor rescues her - she said she'd known the Doctor since she was young.

For some reason she uses the name that is a mistranslation from the people of the Gamma Forest. Was she raised there or did she just like the name better than her real one?

She ends up in a spacesuit in 1969 for some reason - and possibly kills the Doctor at some stage while in it. After getting out she dies and regenerates.

Somewhere along the line she is arrested and but in Stormcage. Repeatedly breaks out and in and has adventures with the Doctor, though always out of order. And she meets her parents before they had her.

Somewhere during this she apparently marries the Doctor - after killing him. Now if she is the grandmother of Susan does she marry the 1st Doctor? And if so, why don't later Doctor's recognise her? Even if she regenerated in between times don't Time Lords still recognise each other?

Later on she becomes a professor and the Doctor meets her for the first time - when she dies.

[Kato]

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For some reason she uses the name that is a mistranslation from the people of the Gamma Forest. Was she raised there or did she just like the name better than her real one?

Somewhere during this she apparently marries the Doctor - after killing him. Now if she is the grandmother of Susan does she marry the 1st Doctor? And if so, why don't later Doctor's recognise her? Even if she regenerated in between times don't Time Lords still recognise each other?

Two things...
1) she probably uses the name to avoid being recognized as who she is before it's the right time. Would be a pretty big SPOILER wouldn't it?

2) Are we sure they marry? wasn't that some crazy theory as well? And even if they marry, does not at all mean she is Susan's granny, she married an older Doctor for sure, none before the first.

[Androgeus]

I realised the revelation does kinda of widen a plothole I had from the start of the series.

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River obviously knows Rory in "The Impossible Astronaut", then how come in "The Pandorica Opens" she fails to recognize him when he's a centurion. It takes her a photo of him in Amy's house to make any connection. My personal retcon before this episode was that TIA takes place after TPO.
However Rory being her farther kinda of makes this worse (unless she didn't grow up with them which is possible, although she's seen him in Roman garb so *shrug*)

Also surely River's Gamma Forest name is Song River and they just happen to have picked the leaf up backwards.

[Nameless Ghost]

Okay, River Song's timeline is so ridiculously convoluted that I don't think it can possibly make any sense any more.

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She is born to the 11th Doctor's companions - who she knew before she was born.

She was stolen at birth and at some stage the Doctor rescues her - she said she'd known the Doctor since she was young.

For some reason she uses the name that is a mistranslation from the people of the Gamma Forest. Was she raised there or did she just like the name better than her real one?

She ends up in a spacesuit in 1969 for some reason - and possibly kills the Doctor at some stage while in it. After getting out she dies and regenerates.

Somewhere along the line she is arrested and but in Stormcage. Repeatedly breaks out and in and has adventures with the Doctor, though always out of order. And she meets her parents before they had her.

Somewhere during this she apparently marries the Doctor - after killing him. Now if she is the grandmother of Susan does she marry the 1st Doctor? And if so, why don't later Doctor's recognise her? Even if she regenerated in between times don't Time Lords still recognise each other?

Later on she becomes a professor and the Doctor meets her for the first time - when she dies.

I have a distinct feeling that the missing pieces will actually make it all the more puzzling.

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We know the Doctor will go to to the Gamma Forest, so there is the possibility that Melody is rescued from there. Unless he's already been there, but that seems unlikely based on his reactions in the episode.

Alternatively, Melody Pond starts being known as River Song because Amy/Rory/Eleven now know that Melody is/will be River Song, so as a result of River's explanation they begin referring to Melody as River. This feels a bit like cheating, but paradoxes often do.

[Tiki Snakes]

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By the time she is old enough to be 'River Song' we most see her in the company of the people for whom 'Melody Pond' would be a very hard to understand name, so she goes by the alias 'River Song'.

Also, she isn't necessarily romantically involved with the Doctor. There's certainly an attraction of some sort, but the big clue was she knew his name, which made him think she was his wife. BUT she has seen his Cot and apparently speaks Galifreyan, which means she likely is able to simply read it written on the front. And we know that the River of last episode is the past of the River who knew the name at the very least.

Which means that now we know who she actually is, we are back to square one about what she is to the doctor, basically.

But she's not Susan's mother. Because Tennant is the youngest Doctor she ever meets.

For my money, anyway. Still very interested to find out eventually who exactly it is who teaches River to pilot the Tardis...

[Androgeus]

Okay, River Song's timeline is so ridiculously convoluted that I don't think it can possibly make any sense any more.

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She is born to the 11th Doctor's companions - who she knew before she was born.

She was stolen at birth and at some stage the Doctor rescues her - she said she'd known the Doctor since she was young.

For some reason she uses the name that is a mistranslation from the people of the Gamma Forest. Was she raised there or did she just like the name better than her real one?

She ends up in a spacesuit in 1969 for some reason - and possibly kills the Doctor at some stage while in it. After getting out she dies and regenerates.

Somewhere along the line she is arrested and but in Stormcage. Repeatedly breaks out and in and has adventures with the Doctor, though always out of order. And she meets her parents before they had her.

Somewhere during this she apparently marries the Doctor - after killing him. Now if she is the grandmother of Susan does she marry the 1st Doctor? And if so, why don't later Doctor's recognise her? Even if she regenerated in between times don't Time Lords still recognise each other?

Later on she becomes a professor and the Doctor meets her for the first time - when she dies.

I see it more like this

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-Born on demon's run
-Stolen by Madame Kovarain
-Given to the Silents to raise
-Shot by Amy, then escapes suit
-spontaneously combustregenerates.
-???????
-Kills a good man (likely Doctor, but open for swerve), sent to storm cage
-???????
-"A Good Man Goes to War"
-"The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon"
-"The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang"
-"The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone"
-"Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead"

at some point she marries someone (likely the Doctor, but open to swerve).
I think that covers everything we know about her.

[Thufir]

Still very interested to find out eventually who exactly it is who teaches River to pilot the Tardis...

The Doctor. She says as much in The Pandorica Opens.
We can't be sure which Doctor, but definitely the Doctor.

[Goldfly]

Okay, I just saw the latest episode. It was brilliant, of course.

Ignoring the things that have already been said, I hope Vastra and Jenny get more screen time. I would love to see them being companions, if only for a few episodes. It's been a while since we've had a companion who wasn't a modern human.

[Flame of Anor]

Okay, I just saw the latest episode. It was brilliant, of course.

Ignoring the things that have already been said, I hope Vastra and Jenny get more screen time. I would love to see them being companions, if only for a few episodes. It's been a while since we've had a companion who wasn't a modern human.

It's only been a few episodes--don't you remember Auton!Rory?

[Foeofthelance]

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Regarding the confusion of why she wouldn't recognize Rory during the Pandorica opens...

Rory didn't exist anymore.

Remember, by that point he had already been deleted from history when they dealt with the Saurians. Amy didn't recognize him, why would River? The only one who knew who he was (and he wasn't even really him!) was the Doctor, and only because the Doctor knew to remember hard enough. She wasn't there when it happened, so never would have made the effort. River wouldn't have remembered who Rory was until they rebooted the Universe.

[Flame of Anor]

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Regarding the confusion of why she wouldn't recognize Rory during the Pandorica opens...

Rory didn't exist anymore.

Remember, by that point he had already been deleted from history when they dealt with the Saurians. Amy didn't recognize him, why would River? The only one who knew who he was (and he wasn't even really him!) was the Doctor, and only because the Doctor knew to remember hard enough. She wasn't there when it happened, so never would have made the effort. River wouldn't have remembered who Rory was until they rebooted the Universe.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present Fridge Brilliance.

[Starscream]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present Fridge Brilliance.

Agreed. Well reasoned.

...I need to stop spending so much time on that damn site. I actually wondered for a second why you didn't just type FridgeBrilliance and automatically link to that page.

[Sanguine]

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Regarding the confusion of why she wouldn't recognize Rory during the Pandorica opens...

Rory didn't exist anymore.

Remember, by that point he had already been deleted from history when they dealt with the Saurians. Amy didn't recognize him, why would River? The only one who knew who he was (and he wasn't even really him!) was the Doctor, and only because the Doctor knew to remember hard enough. She wasn't there when it happened, so never would have made the effort. River wouldn't have remembered who Rory was until they rebooted the Universe.

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While that explains why she didn't remember him it is now making me question why she existed in the first place. After all her father was erased from all of time and space. So how did River get conceived?

[Drolyt]

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While that explains why she didn't remember him it is now making me question why she existed in the first place. After all her father was erased from the universe; all of time and space. So how did River get conceived?

Amy somehow existed after both her parents were erased from time, so I guess we shouldn't ask questions.

[Dienekes]

Amy somehow existed after both her parents were erased from time, so I guess we shouldn't ask questions.

I thought it was just her parents were dead and she re-imagined the world with them in it.

I'm probably wrong though.

[Reluctance]

I thought it was just her parents were dead and she re-imagined the world with them in it.

I'm probably wrong though.

It's strongly implied that they got eaten by the crack. Simply being an orphan wouldn't have left telltales like the too big house.

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While that explains why she didn't remember him it is now making me question why she existed in the first place. After all her father was erased from all of time and space. So how did River get conceived?

Partly due to being a step towards timelordism (River did seem to have more than half a minder at the end of The Big Bang, more than even Amy and whatever influence the crack had on her), partly due to the general protective effect that comes from being a time traveler, partly due to the general rules of whovian time that keep the present from being horribly mangled every time the past is interacted with, and a good chunk from general timey-wimeyness.

[Calemyr]

Completely unsolicited, here are my thoughts on A Good Man Goes to War:

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First, Rory finds new ways to be badass every episode, it seems. It's impressive to watch.

Second, I think the Doctor's "fall" was the revelation that he was a weapon. He'd never thought of himself like that. Oh, he'd been used as a charismatic nuke by his own people, sure, but he'd always seen it as being ordered to set things right. He's considered himself an adventurer, a hero, and a champion, but never as a weapon. It cuts him to the bone to realize he'd been fashioning his friends into weapons in the season 4 finale, how much worse is it to discover you're the most feared weapon of them all?

Thirdly, Rory is a dad! This is great, because if the Doctor was responsible, I would be cheering for a Roman to... cancel... this series with a rusty short sword.

Finally, all of the debtors were good, but they missed a great moment. When the Sontaran was going to die and stated he was a nurse, Rory should have said "So am I". Yes, Sonataran, you can be unbelievably badass and a nurse.

[Dr. Simon]

Surely Doctor Who has done a Jack the Ripper episode before some time in it's long history?

Nope. Closest would the Talons of Weng Chiang (a Tom Baker one), which draws in a lot of Victoriana and has women mysteriously vanishing from the streets of London's East End, but doesn't explicitly tie in with Ripper lore in any form. 'Tis a good one though, livened up by the culture clash of Leela in Victorian society.

Back to the latest episode, loved the Sontaran turning Rory's "I'm a nurse" line back on him.

[Edit: Ninja'd on the last!]

[Kato]

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Second, I think the Doctor's "fall" was the revelation that he was a weapon. He'd never thought of himself like that. Oh, he'd been used as a charismatic nuke by his own people, sure, but he'd always seen it as being ordered to set things right. He's considered himself an adventurer, a hero, and a champion, but never as a weapon. It cuts him to the bone to realize he'd been fashioning his friends into weapons in the season 4 finale, how much worse is it to discover you're the most feared weapon of them all?

[...]

Finally, all of the debtors were good, but they missed a great moment. When the Sontaran was going to die and stated he was a nurse, Rory should have said "So am I". Yes, Sonataran, you can be unbelievably badass and a nurse.

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Hm... dunno, I'll still take the fall as him being tricked and the consequences. The moment when the poem is recited in the background, when Amy is so devastated because she lost her child when all he tried to do in this episode seems to be for nothing (except he got Amy back but hell, what about the baby she just had?!) I think that's supposed to be his fall. Though I think I've seen worse.

Argh. I forgot to mention the nurse thing! I don't think it was necessary for Rory to answer on that one because we all knew what it was about. Rory might have become one of the most feared warriors to get back his kid but in heart he's not a fighter but a nurse who cares for people. He won't stick around as the Doctor's private mercenary but go back to being what he really is.

Also, I don't think it's necessary but I'll say it anyway: I liked how the captain referenced all the titles the Doctor was given in Pandorica Opens. Nice touch.

[The_Admiral]

3 words WHAT THE HELL!?!?! This explains everything. everything

[thegurullamen]

Amy somehow existed after both her parents were erased from time, so I guess we shouldn't ask questions.

Handwaved/Lampshaded/possibly Chekov-Gunned with "Amy, does it every bother you that nothing about your life makes sense?"

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Clearly, this is a hereditary trait. :P