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2011-05-02, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Except that's not entirely true. Again, I refer you to Holden's little essay, which says that Samsara can be wrong, and that the PC's can break a prophecy fueled by Samsara.
When you attune to the artifact, your anima does show, but it decreases as normal. So, unless you're trying to attune under the eyes of a Immacualte monk or something, you should spend peripheral on attuning.He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2011-05-02, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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- Old Jersiaise
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2011-05-02, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2011-05-02, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Too close to the sun
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
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2011-05-02, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
What? No...anima banners only look at how much you've spent in a scene, not how much you've spend your entire exalted life.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2011-05-02, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
- Location
- The Land of Angles
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2011-05-02, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- England
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2011-05-02, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2011-05-02, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Draper, Utah
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Before, my character's choices mattered. My character could change the course of nations, bring prosperity or ruin to millions, and wear any shirt I wanted to. Now? All those decisions are pre-scripted. If I tople the Realm, it is because Samsara said the Realm would fall to my armies. If I wear a blue shirt, it is because Samsara said I would wear a blue shirt.
Does it matter at the table? Not practically. I still have free will and the outcome of my actions is uncertain, but only because I have free will in the real world and the outcome of a die roll is uncertain. In game, though, my character has no real choice. Everything that happens one way and not another happens because Samsara said so. I can't tell Samsara "Screw You!" because Samsara said I would tell Samsara "Screw You!"
A Book of Words: An Expanded Truenamer Fix
Masters of the Industrial Elements: An Exalted Supplement
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Avatar by Kymme
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2011-05-02, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Sweden
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
We surpass the impossible and kick reason in the curb, because that's the way of the Dai Gurren-Dan!
WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE!?
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2011-05-02, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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- Land of Magic and Ponies
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I am going to focus on just one subject of this discussion for now, if thats okay with you.
While the Sun would have to act or suppress his virtues if he walked through a city in creation I believe that he could go there without having to suppress his virtues even once (if we ignore his oath of non interference). Also from his personal history it is clear that the reason he don't act isn't and has never been that he is afraid to lose his powers. Because you know what? creating a situation where he has to suppress a virtue is very hard to do because he always can choose to stick to his ideals his panoply charms mean that he is greatest when he does so.Remember: Hope springs eternal. The dark days will pass and the sun will shine again.
The best way to learn something is to ask, so ask without shame.
Many thanks to smuchmuch for the awesome Ponytar.
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2011-05-02, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2011-05-02, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Too close to the sun
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
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2011-05-02, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- England
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2011-05-02, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Actually, unless we can somehow disprove causality, free will doesn't exist in the real world either. If logic exists at all, then we're just in a giant skinner box, reacting to billions of variables too discrete for the human mind to interpret. We'll always make the same choice, given the same variables.
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Discussion Thread
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2011-05-02, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- A long, long chain
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Hey, you need the full quote, there.
Originally Posted by HoldenLast edited by Guancyto; 2011-05-02 at 03:08 PM.
Rider avatar by Elder Tsofu
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2011-05-02, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
You know, I wish Samsara was sentient, because trolling Venus with constant "you will **** person x" would be hilarious.
Especially if "x" include Ma-Ha-Suchi, the Ebon Dragon and Joe the Farmer.
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2011-05-02, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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- Land of Magic and Ponies
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Remember: Hope springs eternal. The dark days will pass and the sun will shine again.
The best way to learn something is to ask, so ask without shame.
Many thanks to smuchmuch for the awesome Ponytar.
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2011-05-02, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Too close to the sun
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Don't worry, I'm only joking around. I'm used to being made to look stupid compared to the fine minds on this forum.
(That's part of why I always attatch something along the lines of 'that's what I thought anyway' to any objective statement I make, so when I am inevitably proved wrong, hopefully people realise I'm just ignorant, rather than an ass)
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2011-05-02, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
But what if they think you're an ignorant ass?
Edit: On second though, image leaching is bad, even if it's just an emote. Re-hosted.
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2011-05-02, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Draper, Utah
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
But they can't change Samsara. No one can.
You aren't a badass ninja if you take ESS. Trust me. You are a master of misdirection and avoiding being caught if you take ESS. Yes, that is part of being a ninja, but that doesn't make you a badass one, just a good one.
Same thing with Crane style. You don't become a great teacher by punching your students into sticky red paste, you become one by teaching them self control and not striking before they know the situation.
Humor aside, what about Crane Style actually makes you a better teacher? Only one Charm in the whole style lets you help anyone learn anything and then not by much.
He doesn't walk down the streets of Creation though. If he did, there wouldn't be an Immaculate Faith. He stays inside of the CPD because it means he doesn't have to deal with his virtues and with what is going on outside. If he stopped supressing his Temperance, then maybe he'd go outside and start fixing things.
Holden's essay does not say Samsara can be wrong. It makes an end run around the issue by saying that seeing something occur in Samsara doesn't mean your PCs can't do something else. That is a case of real life imposing itself upon the game. I can't tell you what you are going to do. I can't flawlessly predict it either. So if I tell you you are going to do something and you don't like it, nothing I do can stop you from doing it.
As an in-game concept, though, Samsara has never been wrong. There have been things the Maidens couldn't see within Samsara, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. It just means the Maidens couldn't see them. Having Samsara as the overscript is toxic to a setting about making choices and dealing with the consequences.
Then explain it to me in a way that doesn't strip free will from everything in the setting.
That they don't look doesn't mean they flipped Samsara the bird. If one Maiden were to observe Samsara as another Maiden acted without consulting Samsara, they'd see that Samsara perfectly predicts the actions of the ignorant Maiden. The Ignorant Maiden is just unaware of what Samsara is predicting. She's a fool believing herself to have free will.
A Book of Words: An Expanded Truenamer Fix
Masters of the Industrial Elements: An Exalted Supplement
Arena Trophy Case:
Spoiler
Avatar by Kymme
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2011-05-02, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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2011-05-02, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Samsara is like quantum foam. It's in many states at once and only collapses into a specific series of events if someone (the Maidens) looks at it.
That Yozi is such a big deal because if he woke up he'd look at all of it at once all the time and lock existence into predestination.
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2011-05-02, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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- Land of Magic and Ponies
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
NO. That is not why he act as he does, he stay in the pleasure dome because he is addicted, if it was just his charms (which don't turn off at the drop off a hat like you seem to think) he would go out there anyway.
You know how I know that? because thats what he did in the one cannon situation where that has happenned, back with Prince Lashe.Remember: Hope springs eternal. The dark days will pass and the sun will shine again.
The best way to learn something is to ask, so ask without shame.
Many thanks to smuchmuch for the awesome Ponytar.
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2011-05-02, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- BC, Canada
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Well, the way I understand Samsara from reading it and whatnot is that it's not this script saying everything that will ever happen. It's this recording of what has happened. So, it doesn't say "PC X will do Y." It doesn't say anything until after PC X does Y, and then it records it.
So that's not to say that free will doesn't exist, that's not what Samsara is. Free will exists, PCs exert it, and then Samsara writes it down afterwards. Some people can peer into the future and see what Samsara wrote, but that doesn't mean that people didn't decide to do those things, and I guess looking into the future and seeing what Samsara wrote about PC's decisions potentially gives PCs a chance to change those decisions. In setting, this has never happened before, because in setting, there have never been PCs before. And, you know, PCs are special.
Anyways, that's what I'm getting from all this.Originally Posted by Grifter, character in game I'm GMing
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2011-05-02, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- WI, USA
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
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2011-05-02, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- Draper, Utah
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
A Book of Words: An Expanded Truenamer Fix
Masters of the Industrial Elements: An Exalted Supplement
Arena Trophy Case:
Spoiler
Avatar by Kymme
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2011-05-02, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2011-05-02, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- A long, long chain
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Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Which means that in all probability Yuki can, in fact, troll Venus like that. I'm not sure I actually buy that explanation, but it has its merits.
One thing to note is that he says that the Maidens have never seen samsara be wrong, which isn't to say that it can't be wrong. The key here is that the Maidens are compelled to prove samsara right. For the times they don't consult it... really, who knows?Last edited by Guancyto; 2011-05-02 at 03:32 PM.
Rider avatar by Elder Tsofu
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2011-05-02, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: General Exalted Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Yeah, it's almost as rediculous as the world being flat. Or gods and stuff actually existing in some form of bueracracy.
O WAIT!He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune