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2011-04-26, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Wow, you're right. I don't like that--I see spirit charms not as something that can be learned but as something that is part of a god's job and being. Arcanoi on the other hand are tricks that a ghost learns. Also spirit charms are much better, why would any ghost learn Arcanoi when spirit charms do the same thing but cheaper and better?
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
--Will S.
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2011-04-26, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 12:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 12:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
That page says no such thing for me. In fact, it has one and a half Arcanoi descriptions, and the beginning of the Shifting Ghost-Clay Path.
Doing a quick search for that sentence reveals it does say so in page 112, but then the question is how is it amusing for errata to fix earlier stuff that was in fault?I use black for sarcasm.
Call me Rose, or The Rose Dragon. Rose Dragon is someone else entirely.
If you need me for something, please PM me about it. I am having difficulty keeping track of all my obligations.
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2011-04-26, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Is not one of the laws of thermodynamics that things always get, in general, less ordered? Is not another that you cannot create energy without taking it from somewhere? I can see an artifact that absorbs your enemies and turns them into motes for you to use as being reasonable, yes?
I think you have insufficient imagination if you think "Live a quiet life on a farm in the middle of nowhere" is not a heroic motivation. There was, after all, that greek guy who led 40,000 troops out of Persia after all their generals got killed. He didn't lose a single soldier. Or consider George Washington who after ruling the US like a king for 8 years walked away from it all to spend time on his farm. Or consider Odysseus who spent 10 years trying to get home. In short, wanting to live a quiet life is only non-heroic if you already are living a quiet life. If you are in the middle of a war, wanting to get home to the family farm can lead to lots of heroism.
Far from starving, creation would probably enjoy a food surplus not seen in a thousand years. As I understand it, "Heroic" means more "large scale and impressive" than "beat people up and take their stuff." So a heroically motivated farmer will look at his measly farm and the acres sitting unused next to it and figure out how to make them all blossom without his needing much more effort. Or he will just put in 20 hour days, work his cows nearly to death, and farm the whole thing the old way. His brother might decide to see the world, or at least the next town over, and next thing ya know, there is a new trade route open. Their cousin might decide to "heroically" sleep with every woman in town who he isn't related to. Make sense?
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2011-04-26, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Land of Amoral Thieves
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
In short, don't try to steal sheep from Heroic Farmer Bob !
World where everyone is capable of heroism certainly have a nice ring to it. Of course there would be a LOOT more "heroically lazy" folks too.Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.
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2011-04-26, 02:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I think the closest you would get to Heroically Lazy would be Heroically Hedonistic.
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Discussion Thread
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2011-04-26, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Tavar, can I ask that this be added to the Recruiting Games list?
Originally Posted by The-Mage-King;
Avatar by A-Rainy-Knight
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2011-04-26, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 05:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Also, on the whole Heroic Mortals living on a farm thing, 'the middle of nowhere' can be kinda dangerous anyway. I mean, shadowlands, the Wyld, the various big beasties, celestial exalts trying to evade the Wyld Hunt, the Wyld Hunt, if you live by a village, the Dowager doing her children kidnapping thing...
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2011-04-26, 06:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Sure thing.
Err, no, it isn't. The only one who gets out (barring PC actions in RotSE) is the Ebon Dragon. Look at the West; the Western front for the Reclamation actually fails without PC involvement. Even if they succeed, you don't see scenarios in which Malfeas emerges triumphant in the East, transmuting every inch of land into verdegrised brass as he roars his victory to the heavens.
The Reclamation itself is a wash; the Ebon Dragon never intended for any of the Yozis to escape except for himself. The only thing that could've made their impossible escape possible is the Green Sun Princes, and the likelihood of them remaining loyal enough to do so considering what the Yozis do to them makes it even less possible.
Thus, the Yozis except for Ebon Dragon are stupid because they fell for Ebon Dragon's tricks again. And the Ebon Dragon is stupid for a plethora of reasons.
...and then do nothing afterward. Nothing. Also consider briefly that "carving out large swaths of Creation for themselves" is far below their capabilities. Well, most of 'em, anyway. Screw Walker in Darkness.
Thorns means nothing. Thorns is but a lark, by which Mask of Winters shows off his new enslaved behemoth and gets to tell his bosses that he isn't just sitting on his thumbs.
Not only that, but if we're going with the RotSE discussion, Thorns may very well get nuked by the Realm Defense Grid.
Actually, that one's a little less stupid.
Mind you, those of us who generally point this stuff out also think it was a rather bad move to make them so stupidly-powerful, but still...
Not really. See above... Ebby's the only one that manages to escape, and he's stupid for pointlessly-betraying his brothers and sisters; can you imagine the torments they'll inflict on him when the Exalted host tosses him back down there? That's the nice option.
This.
The Neverborn are stupid for being such petulant, obsessive children who refuse to acknowledge an existence beyond the toy that was taken from them by the bully who knocked them down. If they could stop obsessing over Creation, chances are that they could either fall into Oblivion or reform in the Wyld to go find another playground, whichever suits them.
Well, of course not. The Yozis and Neverborn shouldn't be made to be the setting's antagonists. They've already been defeated; where's the story in that? And the Deathlords? They're training their replacements.
Eh, I'm sure he's got something stupid up his sleeve.
Also this.
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2011-04-26, 06:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
So, on reading up on God-Bloods for this story I'm writing, I've discovered something odd...
Half-Castes are specifically called out as being unable to learn perfect defenses. Makes sense.
God-Bloods (that is, actual children of gods or elementals), however, can learn Divine Dodge(/Melee/Martial Arts) Subordination, which can be used as a 5m, 1 wp perfect dodge(/parry).
I don't quite understand the charm text, though. It says "whether the attack can be blocked or dodged". Does that mean it doesn't work on undodgeable/unblockable attacks?
Either way, a Terrestrial-level PD isn't bad for a God-Blood.
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2011-04-26, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Oh, forgot something...
General Exalt Discussion?
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2011-04-26, 06:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
The book says God-Bloods normally only go to Essence 3. Storytellers are encouraged to let PCs be exceptional.
I just find it odd that alf-Castes are specifically caled out as being unable, while God-Bloods only have the fact that most God-Bloods never exceed Essence 3.
Here's the specific text if you don't believe me.
Originally Posted by Scroll of Heroes
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2011-04-26, 06:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Last edited by Sanguine; 2011-04-26 at 06:51 AM.
Avatar by Elagune
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2011-04-26, 06:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
So yes.
Truly exceptional God-Bloods can learn a Terrestrial-level PD, while Half-Castes are specifically called out as being absolutely unable to learn PDs.
Discuss.
Edit: I think I found what you were thinking of.
Originally Posted by The Scroll of Heroes
I like to think a protagonist with Destiny 5 qualifies. :P
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2011-04-26, 06:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-26, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Can't say I'm too familiar with god-bloods and half-castes, but I suppose it could be something like: Exaltation is an addition to a mortal, while gods have inherent power, so when the god has a child, more power is passed down to the child than the power given to an Exalt's child.
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2011-04-26, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Yeah, but even if they can go above Essence 3, don't they ascend at that point? So a God-blood learning an Essence 5 perfect dodge can do so because he is now a God. But for a Half-Caste, their method of ascension is Exaltation, which doesn't happen normally but does grant Perfects. So for both of them you can get hold of Perfects after ascension, it's just they ascend in different ways.
That's the way I see it anyway.
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2011-04-26, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Avatar by Elagune
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2011-04-26, 07:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
So I edited this into my post before other people posted. Just in case it got missed:
Originally Posted by The Scroll of Heroes
Likely possibilities, but still.
Yeah, I do think it's probably just a mistake and that all God-Bloods are meant to be incapable of PDs. Scroll of Heroes is hilariously badly written (Archery, Thrown or Brawl? Come on now). I just like that it doesn't specify that God-Bloods can't elarnt hem in general, because it helps with my quest to make my God-Blooded protagonist awesome. :P
Is he a Mary-Sue? A bit, yeah.
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2011-04-26, 07:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
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2011-04-26, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
I think it's important to remember that many of the Deathlords may not actually be all that enthusiastic about their ostensible goals. They're ghosts who refused to move on; their defining characteristic is their inability to let go of their existence. Sure, it's possible that some of them have been won over, and are genuinely working to bring about the end of everything... but I think it's much more likely that the majority of them are putting on a show for their masters while they enjoy their existence as awesomely powerful immortal beings. Sure, they're spiteful and wouldn't mind killing everyone who ever wronged them (and a lot more people besides), but do they want it enough to give that up? Probably not.
Some of them may even be sabotaging the war effort intentionally; you could certainly interpret the conquest of Thorns as the Mask making sure that Oblivion's enemies are aware of the threat, and if the Dowager is correct about the Fair Folk invasion messing up the Great Contagion then there's a similar argument for the Lion (and maybe Eye and Seven Despairs).
Now, the Bishop is probably a true believer. The Dowager is loyal (or at least too convinced of the inevitability of Oblivion to oppose it), but she's also insane, and prefers to work through masterstrokes of mad genius or not at all. The Lover as presented is working towards Oblivion out of sheer boredom, but not very hard; ennui does not make a good motivator.
The Silver Prince hasn't shown his hand yet; he's building up power, but it's anyone's guess what he intends to do with it. He might be loyal, but I could certainly see him trying to seize power for himself instead. It's hard to say anything about Black Heron, because we haven't seen any schemes of hers that weren't aimed mostly at the Lion. Eye of Seven Despairs is simply self-absorbed or incompetent most of the time... unless he's actually a genius feigning incompetence (always an outside possibility) to lure his enemies into a false sense of security, in which case it's he's a wild card.
But the Lion and the Mask, definitely prime candidates for fifth columnists. They're not bumbling. They know exactly what they're doing, thank you very much.
(Actually, a campaign starring the Mask of Winters and the First and Forsaken Lion with this premise sounds like a lot of fun.)
Edit- Oh, right, forgot about Walker in Darkness because he's sorta boring. He can be loyal too, I guess.
That's an... interesting interpretation, but I don't think I've ever seen anything that suggests they could magically come back to life just by wishing it.
Succumbing to Oblivion is another story; if you think of them as ghosts with Creation as their fetter, I suppose you could make the argument that it's only their attachment that keeps them in their state of tormented half-existence. But I don't think it's fair to say "just get over it already." It's like expecting someone with severe depression or PTSD to just get over it; of course it would be better if they could wish their problems away, but it's not that easy.Last edited by The_Snark; 2011-04-26 at 07:10 AM.
Avatar by GryffonDurime. Thanks!
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2011-04-26, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
One more reason I find their statting out of the Deathlords to be so silly - do you think Mask of Winters' Motivation is really accurate? Think a being as powerful as he is would really fail to bring about the end of existence if it was his Motivation? Either his power level is wrong, or his writeup is wrong.
Agreed. Again, though, if that was the case, it should be in their writeup. As it is, however, their writeup implies that they're loyal, but are tremendously-incompetent at their jobs; unfortunately, it's not hard to see the inherent failings here.
See above.
If the First and Forsaken Lion wanted to, he could Black Faith his way into the Jade Pleasure Dome, and lay some serious whup on the Unconquered Sun, at no personal risk to himself. Either he doesn't really care about ending Creation, or he's even more of a colossal, short-sighted moron than we can imagine. Again, either the Deathlords need to be less-powerful, or their goals aren't really centered on bringing about the end of all things. Or both, that would be acceptable.
Actually, this was how I was running her in my game.
I throw my support to this one, simply because it's the more interesting one.
Sad but true; why even have her be a Deathlord if she's not going to have an impact on the setting?
See my previous bit on Mask and FaFL.
I know I've seen it somewhere, and now it's gonna bug me if I don't spend half my day hunting it down.
I never meant to imply it was easy, but given that this is Exalted, it's likely far from impossible, especially if the Exalted actually had had the good sense in the First Age to help them let go, instead of going down to their tombs and teabagging them.Last edited by TheCountAlucard; 2011-04-26 at 07:34 AM.
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2011-04-26, 07:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Being grounded is fun. What have I missed?
Also, AP exams are in a couple weeks but after that I'll see if I can throw up a recruitment thread.
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2011-04-26, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
Eh. 2500 XP is a bit less then what Deathlords actually get, and is a little less then what a 1000 year old Exalted gets. I'd go with the Charms simply for ease of use.
That said, restricting it to Essence 5- Charms, and then having unique panoply Charms for high Essence effects might be a good idea. I'm open to suggestions, if anyone has them.Awesome Cyborg Doom Monkey avatar by Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins. Offer up your robo-bananas to him.
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2011-04-26, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: General Exalt Discussion IV: Roll Join Debate
That's ridiculous, that is. Helping the Neverborn to move on deprives you of Necromancy, probably makes Soulsteel a nonrenewable resource and the effects on the Underworld itself are completely unknown. Why would anyone try to destroy such a useful resource whose dangers are so very contained?
Rider avatar by Elder Tsofu