General Exalted Discussion V: Our Armies are Pants

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Please avoid discussion of real-world religion.

[Kris Strife]

Oh. That one certainly is a Solar, yes.

Some more examples.

[DeadManSleeping]

Stabbing the Neverborn won't work, they cannot die. You have to convince them to forgive their murderers. That is a bit more epic, and entirely fitting in with Exalted. There is a reason that join combat trumps join debate; its easy to solve your issues with violence, but it usually isn't the right answer.

It's still "conflict", even if there's no physical stabbing involved. But, yes, confronting the Neverborn with your heart is considerably more epic.

Though part of high-action games tends to be "you can always stab something to solve your problems. You might just need a better sword."

[Story Time]

That...totally makes me think of an army of Celestial Exalted giving all the disgruntled Primordials a Care-Bear Stare(!) one by one.

[Drascin]

I think we're done here. Also, I'm pretty sure I sympathize with your thought process. But you're making claims you can't back up, at all. Remember that Solars are *Universally crazy*. To support that this originates with humanity means you need to demonstrate that people 100% of the time go bonkers. You're not going to have an easy time of this.

Well, in truth, it would only be necessary to assert that only crazy people exalt as solars, rather than the fact that humanity as a whole is crazy. Solars are just 300 dudes, after all, not even a 0.5% of the total population.

But I don't think only crazy people Exalt as Solars. Is it statistically skewed towards crazies? Yes, because a dose of megalomania or psychosis helps you fulfill the requirement for the Exaltation, so a greater percentage of Solars will be crazy than the percentage of crazy normal people - simply because of selection bias. But, is it necessary? No, and therefore there will be non-crazy Solars, absent the Great Curse.

[RPGuru1331]

Well, in truth, it would only be necessary to assert that only crazy people exalt as solars, rather than the fact that humanity as a whole is crazy. Solars are just 300 dudes, after all, not even a 0.5% of the total population.

But I don't think only crazy people Exalt as Solars. Is it statistically skewed towards crazies? Yes, because a dose of megalomania or psychosis helps you fulfill the requirement for the Exaltation, so a greater percentage of Solars will be crazy than the percentage of crazy normal people - simply because of selection bias. But, is it necessary? No, and therefore there will be non-crazy Solars, absent the Great Curse.

Well, if only crazy people exalted, the blame would still lay on the selection criteria or the selector, for only selecting the unstable humans. I don't think I agree that it skews towards the unstable, but that's at least supportable, and I see the logic you're using for it, I think.

[Xefas]

If you like, but I will always think that Gurren Lagann is better than any Gundam series ever made, and you essentially described the ending of GL perfectly. Stab the right thing and humans win forever.

Alright, well, I respect your preference, even though I don't share it, and we can agree to disagree here.

EDIT: Also, we need to start discussing the next thread title D:

[Turalisj]

If you like, but I will always think that Gurren Lagann is better than any Gundam series ever made, and you essentially described the ending of GL perfectly. Stab the right thing and humans win forever.

As a fan of both series, I can say that they each have their niche. But TTGL is a late comer to the genre, where as Gundam has a long and powerful fanbase. When someone makes a Gurren Lagann statue to scale, then I'll consider them on the same grounds.

Besides, Kamina is obviously the reincarnation of Domon Kasshu, with G Gundam being the First Age to the Earth in TTGL.

edit: General Exalted Discussion IV: We Can Dance if We Want To

[Xefas]

edit: General Exalted Discussion IV: We Can Dance if We Want To

Obviously voting for
General Exalted Discussion VI: Ascendancy Mantle of the Playground

[Yuki Akuma]

Obviously voting for
General Exalted Discussion VI: Ascendancy Mantle of the Playground

I second this.

[IcarusWings]

I'll go with General Exalted Discussion VI: Mountains were made to be thrown.

And on the transhumanism vs. Great Curse debate. I side with Xefas. It builds so much more drama to have the Exalted having to contend with their own descent into madness than them fighting against a curse put on them. This is pretty much what Clarity is, and I would personally say that Clarity is the best written Limit Track mechanic (along with maybe Subservience for Nocturnals, but that's non-canon).

Bear in mind that I (and I assume Xefas also) am not saying that all 300 Solars invariably went mad and decadent. There were definitely some heroic Solars that remained so throughout the First Age. But a substantial enough portion gave into their nature and acted like jerks, for the Sidereals to think that they needed to be deposed.

[Gensh]

We Can Dance if We Want To

Spoiler

Show

SANDY DANCE
Cost: 4m; Mins: Martial Arts 4, Essence 4; Type: Reflexive
Keywords: Combo-OK, Obvious
Duration: Instant
Prerequisite Charms: Lord of the Dance Form
The Exalt can dance if he wants to, but he'll have to leave his friends behind. His friends don't dance, and if they don't dance, well, they aren't friends of Cecelyne. In order to use this Charm, the Exalt must reflexively release one character from the effects of Go Dance. Loping casually like the rolling dunes of the Endless Desert, the martial artist prepares to disperse an oncoming attack like so many grains of sand. By waiting as patiently as an infinitely large immortal and rolling with the blow with the perfect timing and precision only possessed by a master dancer, the attack's raw damage is reduced to zero. The attack seems to make contact for a single moment before sliding away harmlessly with a slight spray of silver sand. This Charm constitutes a perfect parry against the attack with one of the Solar Flaws of Invulnerability. As an added benefit, the character who is freed from the effects of Go Dance is considered to be in a place of spiritual desolation until his DV refreshes.

[Turalisj]

Now I want to make a dance focused solar who uses Lord of the Dance style.... And challenges Malfeas to a dance off.

On a different note, anyone be willing to help with charm selection for an E5M5 solar hero stylistic zenith? 10 starting charms and enough xp for 20 more...

[RPGuru1331]

I'd be more apt to help if you could remind me what M5 is.

[Turalisj]

Sorry, MA5. I initially intended for him to be a sword swinger, but I've had more fun with a martial artist oriented character than I have with melee'sts.

I could send you the whole sheet if you want. I'm not looking for optimization or anything, just to know what charms work well together and what charms are needed for someone of medium-high xp (350) to not look weak. >.>'

[Edge]

Obviously voting for
General Exalted Discussion VI: Ascendancy Mantle of the Playground

This is the only correct answer.

[Recaiden]

I think we have to go with Playground Ascendancy Mantle here.

[Edge]

And now I have the beginnings of the First Excellency of Hcir, the Titan in the Game, stuck in my head.

[Kris Strife]

As a fan of both series, I can say that they each have their niche. But TTGL is a late comer to the genre, where as Gundam has a long and powerful fanbase. When someone makes a Gurren Lagann statue to scale, then I'll consider them on the same grounds.

Besides, Kamina is obviously the reincarnation of Domon Kasshu, with G Gundam being the First Age to the Earth in TTGL.

edit: General Exalted Discussion IV: We Can Dance if We Want To

As a fan of both G-Gundam and TTGL, I have to agree with that theory.

And which Gurren Lagann? Base? Super Galaxy Gurren Lagann? Tengan Toppan Gurren Lagann? Giant Kamina made out of raw Spiral Power?

[Recaiden]

When reading CoCD: Malfeas, the bit about causality and time, I imagined the Yozis rewriting the recent past like a bunch of kids arguing over a game of pretend.

"No way! That didn't happen!" And then time warps so that it never did.
"Uh-huh! Did too!"
"But it couldn't do that, it was night-time!"
"I wasn't anywhere near there!"
"Yeah you were, we all saw you!"
"I say I wasn't so I wasn't. It was brightly lit."
"No, there was a building in the way."
"No fair, you never said that!"
"Stop all the yelling."
"This is my city I say it didn't happen!"

And so on and so on. Just me?

Also, demons need to be less interesting and sympathetic. Some of them are terrible, yes, but for the most part they seem more likeable than humans >.<.
Erymanthoi seem, while overly violent, loyal and upstanding people.
Cecylene is admirable and adorable. It's a shame she's also so vicious and evil.
Adorjan just needs a hug a counselor/soul-surgeon to help her get over this obsession with silence.
While the Ebon Dragon is of course a terrible, terrible thing, Erembour...
Ocatavian is a beautiful tragedy of a character.


I have yet to see a likeable Solar. And few among the other types of Exalted. In Canon, that is. In games, they can be wonderful.

[Xefas]

Some of them are terrible, yes, but for the most part they seem more likeable than humans >.<.

Yes. Join us.

I'll have Gervesin spawn a race of First Circle Demons that exist as sentient ovens stoked with grievous nuclear fire, whose only purpose is to devour suffering and manufacture brownies.

And then we shall have a party with brownies.

[SurlySeraph]

"No way! That didn't happen!" And then time warps so that it never did.
"Uh-huh! Did too!"
"But it couldn't do that, it was night-time!"
"I wasn't anywhere near there!"
"Yeah you were, we all saw you!"
"I say I wasn't so I wasn't. It was brightly lit."
"No, there was a building in the way."
"No fair, you never said that!"
"Stop all the yelling."
"This is my city I say it didn't happen!"

Brb, hugging Adorjan.

I have yet to see a likeable Solar. And few among the other types of Exalted. In Canon, that is. In games, they can be wonderful.

Demethus? Faka Kun? Karal Fire Orchid? Sayn?

[RPGuru1331]

Some of them are terrible, yes, but for the most part they seem more likeable than humans >.<.

Any sympathy I may feel for demons is inevitably tamped down by things like those builder virus things snapping infant necks for lulz.

I have yet to see a likeable Solar. And few among the other types of Exalted. In Canon, that is. In games, they can be wonderful.

Hm... sig Characters I consider *likable*... that's always a short list, setting and system be damned...

I suppose that personally, Tepet Arada, Admiral Sand, a pair of Sids I can't properly name (I'd make an arcane fate joke but I just have a poor memory in general), and the majority of Autobots qualify to me. Oh, and probably Roseblack, and some minor DBs from the books like the dorky Gateway nerd with an AI, Rain Deathflyer and his Husband/Wife. The Solar dude who is in the North and uses six five-shooters seems a pretty okay sort too, and totally personally, I love that Abyssal who is basically Waiting for Godot's Vladimir, though that would not be a definition of 'likable' I expect to extend to anyone but me.

Oh, and The Perfect. I used to hate him during 1E and a couple years in 2E, since he came off as a complete tool, but finally reading Perfect's writeup in the CoTD it's in, I was like "Well... that's completely understandable, actually". He's not a Solar, though.

[golentan]

Yeah. Alchemicals often come off to me as pretty cool guys, though there are some exceptions. That prison city planning to forcibly end free will, for example. A weird case for me: I am anti-free will, but once a being has it I think it is wrong to take it from them without their express consent, even if doing so is a net gain for all involved.

[TheCountAlucard]

Question - can hellstriders dematerialize?

Also, at what point does it get too noticeable that you've got a big horde of dematerialized demons following you around? Our Fiend's summoned quite a lot of demons; I've literally lost count of them. From my understanding, even a dematerialized demon leaves certain... traces that reveal its presence to those who would know what to look for...

[Rikandur Azebol]

Even one leaves noticeable traces ... horde of them make it look like demon-weather. Not to mention Sids getting gazillion Blasphemy alerts.

[Kyeudo]

Most first circle demons don't bring omen weather with them or ping off the Loom of Fate's blasphemy alerts. Second circle demons are when omen weather becomes a problem and third circles ping the blasphemy sensors.

[Drascin]

Also, demons need to be less interesting and sympathetic. Some of them are terrible, yes, but for the most part they seem more likeable than humans >.<.

I have yet to see a likeable Solar. And few among the other types of Exalted. In Canon, that is. In games, they can be wonderful.

Yeah, that's what you get with White Wolf writing. "Humans are terrible, they suck, look how bad everyone is, haha, aren't we edgy?", and so, since the demons are written as beings with good and bad, while humans are written through WoDisms, demons may come off looking better easily.

So glad that humans are apparently starting to get a better rap thanks to compass: Autochthonia.

Yeah. Alchemicals often come off to me as pretty cool guys, though there are some exceptions. That prison city planning to forcibly end free will, for example.

Yeah, Alchies seem the exception to the "the Exalted suck" rule of thumb I work with .

[aetherialDawn]

If I recall right, even those demons that snap the necks of babies do it because they want to care for children, and have zero idea how one goes about that except "Um... wrap them in tentacles so that they don't go wandering off?"

Or I may be thinking of a different first circle demon.

As for the older question of when demons become noticeable: Omen weather is for second circles, blasphemy is for third, but first circle demons are not always perfect. Ermanthoi are called out as unusually obvious, and leave a scent of blood or something like that, so probably scale back from there for an individual demon, but then keep in mind that if there's a lot it will be spread out over a large area.

Also, gods and elementals are probably going to flip out when they see this non-dragonblooded guy trailing an army of demons, since I'm pretty sure that a lot of them, if not all of them bar some elementals, can see dematerialized beings. And with a whole army... one is going to spot them.

And Alchemicals rock; I don't see any possible argument against that.

[tonberrian]

The Keychain thread already did the Essence jokes. I say we go with General Exalted Discussion: 6 Magical Materials.