OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread

[Seerow]

Personally I loved Elan's take on Holy Word.

[rewinn]

So what does a Masked Debt Gourd do? Inquiring minds want to know..

OK, here's a Masked Debt Gourd, used to mask (conceal) your gold against debt collectors ...

Spoiler

Show

[faustin]

Question: where was Nale hidding "his new wand" the whole time? it´s a little bigger than, let´s say, Ian´s healing potion

[The Giant]

Question: where was Nale hidding "his new wand" the whole time? it´s a little bigger than, let´s say, Ian´s healing potion

The same place Elan is hiding his rapier. They are twins, after all.

[CloakedDancer]

Can't wait to see what happens next here. This could get very interesting.

The same place Elan is hiding his rapier. They are twins, after all.

I thought it was the same kind of place that Elan was hiding Haley. But his rapier makes sense too.

[Luzahn]

...If only Durkon had gotten a Massive Death Worg.

[Darkroot]

Don't be utterly ridiculous. The fact that Nale owns a relatively inexpensive magic item is not even remotely surprising or unexpected, given his level, wealth, and the fact that last time we saw him, he said he was going to shop for magic items. (Second to last panel.)

How exactly do you expect me to foreshadow each and every magic item that they have? Did you want me to dedicate an entire strip to Nale standing around saying, "Look at my new wand!"?

Come on. Surprises are not Deus (or Diabolous) Ex Machinas, they're surprises. Nothing more or less. If you want to know every little thing that is going to happen before it happens, go read another comic.

A recurring villain getting new tricks is par the course is any work. I think he meant that Durkon's counterspell, which could have done a lot against Nale/Sabine (depending on whether they keep using Death Wardable spells) failed because Thor and his angels couldn't work out what Durkon said. Which I admit, is fairly out of left field - DO clerics have a failure chance on spells, or was this purely rule of drama/funny? I don't play D&D...

[Seerow]

A recurring villain getting new tricks is par the course is any work. I think he meant that Durkon's counterspell, which could have done a lot against Nale/Sabine (depending on whether they keep using Death Wardable spells) failed because Thor and his angels couldn't work out what Durkon said. Which I admit, is fairly out of left field - DO clerics have a failure chance on spells, or was this purely rule of drama/funny? I don't play D&D...

They generally do not, but since this was a spell that Durkon had researched, and in this world is fairly obscure, there could have been a ruling saying it has a failure chance.

It's not like we haven't seen Thor giving the wrong spells due to misunderstandings before.

[Darkroot]

Erm, forgot my thoughts on the strip.

Cleric's Feather Fall is awesome, and I must find an excuse to use it.
And I'm really hoping to see a Masked Debt Gourd show up in the near future. Although that this is the first thing that springs to Thor's mind makes me wonder about his worshippers...

[H Birchgrove]

"I know right!"

Great strip.

[rewinn]

They generally do not, but since this was a spell that Durkon had researched, and in this world is fairly obscure, there could have been a ruling saying it has a failure chance.

It's not like we haven't seen Thor giving the wrong spells due to misunderstandings before.

As far back as 007, which is almost as far back as you can go.

For Elysium's sake, folks - these are JOKES!

[Gift Jeraff]

A recurring villain getting new tricks is par the course is any work. I think he meant that Durkon's counterspell, which could have done a lot against Nale/Sabine (depending on whether they keep using Death Wardable spells) failed because Thor and his angels couldn't work out what Durkon said. Which I admit, is fairly out of left field - DO clerics have a failure chance on spells, or was this purely rule of drama/funny? I don't play D&D...

It's not really left field. Durkon failing to cast the spell was first seen in #750.

[Porthos]

It's not really left field. Durkon failing to cast the spell was first seen in #750.

One might even consider this a clever/funny way of showing Spell Research Failure.

And the idea that something not in Core/SRD has to be researched properly, even if it is a Cleric spell, isn't that uncommon of an idea.

[One Skunk Todd]

Doesn't Durkon have a spell to reduce level draining effects? Or is he now too low a level to use it?

Also is it just me or is the Giant being unusually communicative of late?

[Mantine]

Don't be utterly ridiculous. The fact that Nale owns a relatively inexpensive magic item is not even remotely surprising or unexpected, given his level, wealth, and the fact that last time we saw him, he said he was going to shop for magic items. (Second to last panel.)

How exactly do you expect me to foreshadow each and every magic item that they have? Did you want me to dedicate an entire strip to Nale standing around saying, "Look at my new wand!"?

Come on. Surprises are not Deus (or Diabolous) Ex Machinas, they're surprises. Nothing more or less. If you want to know every little thing that is going to happen before it happens, go read another comic.

I wasn't arguing about the item itself. While it IS fairly acceptable (from a reader's point of view) for him to possess such a wand at that present nick of time, it rings a bit too much of "deus ex coming to the rescue!" if you pair it with Zz'ditri's similar hijink of just a few strips before. Every time they lose the upper hand "something happens", and the odds are rebalanced, in spite of actual, shown combat prowess.
Which also kind of adds insult to injury seeing that Durkon's "surprise" got an arbitrary failure instead.

Anyways, just my 2 cents, not really important.

[The Pilgrim]

Durkon, you better have some restoration spells/scrolls at hand, or you are boned...

... unless your new friend Malak happens to be at hand.

[The Giant]

A recurring villain getting new tricks is par the course is any work. I think he meant that Durkon's counterspell, which could have done a lot against Nale/Sabine (depending on whether they keep using Death Wardable spells) failed because Thor and his angels couldn't work out what Durkon said. Which I admit, is fairly out of left field - DO clerics have a failure chance on spells, or was this purely rule of drama/funny? I don't play D&D...

Well, if that's the case, it's already been shown to be a work-in-progress that isn't ready yet. The exact cause of why it isn't ready is irrelevant to the plot. I could have just as easily had Durkon say, "Gosh, if only I had finished researchin' me spell in time!" if my only goal was to keep him from using it. I did it this way because it gave me a punchline.

Really, this idea some people have that I'm obligated to give my characters a fair fight at all times is bizarre, and I can only assume that it comes from people transposing their experiences in D&D to the strip, and treating me like I'm some kind of unfair DM. It's a piece of fiction, not a game. "Fairness" is not required or to be expected at any point. "Fairness" is dull.

[The Giant]

Every time they lose the upper hand "something happens", and the odds are rebalanced, in spite of actual, shown combat prowess.

This is generally how battles work in drama. Only in roleplaying games are they one-sided foregone conclusions which inevitably grind toward their predestined ending of 20% resource expenditure.

[CloakedDancer]

Well, if that's the case, it's already been shown to be a work-in-progress that isn't ready yet. The exact cause of why it isn't ready is irrelevant to the plot. I could have just as easily had Durkon say, "Gosh, if only I had finished researchin' me spell in time!" if my only goal was to keep him from using it. I did it this way because it gave me a punchline.

Really, this idea some people have that I'm obligated to give my characters a fair fight at all times is bizarre, and I can only assume that it comes from people transposing their experiences in D&D to the strip, and treating me like I'm some kind of unfair DM. It's a piece of fiction, not a game. "Fairness" is not required or to be expected at any point. "Fairness" is dull.

If they're transposing they must have had much nicer DMs than I'm used to. "Unfair" was an essentially laughable concept in the last campaign I suffered through... Personally I think an encounter like this would have been a nice break really.

[Mantine]

This is generally how battles work in drama. Only in roleplaying games are they one-sided foregone conclusions which inevitably grind toward their predestined ending of 20% resource expenditure.

Unpredictability and unfairness add spice to the drama, but in the end the result should be decided by the character's inner, own strenght.

Let's try to imagine how it'd have been if, say, Frodo and Sam reached the gates to Mordor only to find a conveniently-placed catapult aimed right into the volcano.
Or if Sauron pulled out an "Attract-O-Matic Wand" which would pull the One Ring from everywhere in the world right into his hands.
Or turn off the lava with a switch, for all that matters.

In my book, unfairness and unfunny tend to be quite close to each others, to be picked carefully.

[CelestialMagpie]

This is generally how battles work in drama. Only in roleplaying games are they one-sided foregone conclusions which inevitably grind toward their predestined ending of 20% resource expenditure.

Well said


I enjoyed this strip, but I'm sad that Durkon's second attempt to be of use to the party didn't work because of a miscommunication. His first attempt - healing Elan - went very well.

Come on Durkon - you will be the lynchpin of the OOTS victory!!

Also:

Unpredictability and unfairness add spice to the drama, but in the end the result should be decided by the character's inner, own strenght.

Let's try to imagine how it'd have been if, say, Frodo and Sam reached the gates to Mordor only to find a conveniently-placed catapult aimed right into the volcano.
Or if Sauron pulled out an "Attract-O-Matic Wand" which would pull the One Ring from everywhere in the world right into his hands.
Or turn off the lava with a switch, for all that matters.

In my book, unfairness and unfunny tend to be quite close to each others, to be picked carefully.

I don't understand who this is not what just happened. Nale, being down a divine spellcaster, has in his possession a means of alleviating that shortcoming. He is being smart and using his own means - he is in essence thinking things through.
Also - it seems that this is a minor item, not an epic one - it's not a celestial needle and thread for detangling the Snarl. Should the enemy not have useful items which create problems for a party?

[CoffeeIncluded]

Thor really needs to invest in some better service.

[Porthos]

Unpredictability and unfairness add spice to the drama, but in the end the result should be decided by the character's inner, own strenght.

Let's try to imagine how it'd have been if, say, Frodo and Sam reached the gates to Mordor only to find a conveniently-placed catapult aimed right into the volcano.
Or if Sauron pulled out an "Attract-O-Matic Wand" which would pull the One Ring from everywhere in the world right into his hands.
Or turn off the lava with a switch, for all that matters.

Your complaint might have more merit if we were near the end of the story.

But, as far I know, we aren't.

ETA:

I also might, if I were you, choose a better literary example than, Lord of the "I can't figure out a way to end my story that rings* true to what I have already established, so I'll have a character slip and fall into lava while dancing about and end the main plot line that way" Rings.

* No pun intended.

[The_Ferg]

Huh, I would think that restoring Haley would take priority, maybe he doesn't have anything memorized for that.

Break Enchantment has a 1 minute casting time. Not the thing to cast under fire.

[WickedWizard17]

NOOO I WANTED HALEY BACK!
Great comic, Giant, so happy to see Durkon back in on the action! Although the mispronunciation punchline seemed a little contrived . . .

[Whiffet]

I also might, if I were you, choose a better literary example than, Lord of the "I can't figure out a way to end my story that rings* true to what I have already established, so I'll have a character slip and fall into lava while dancing about and end the main plot line that way" Rings.

* No pun intended.

That's what I wanted to say, but you beat me to it.

Why is it that so many people who read OOTS get upset every time something they didn't expect happens?

[Wanda V'Orcus]

She almost certainly had to research them specifically, though. For simplicity, I usually assume that all spells in the SRD are "common knowledge" and everything else is "obscure/non-existent" unless someone has researched it. That's because the bulk of the reading audience won't know about each and every spell in 3.5, but most of them have the Player's Handbook.

Plus, I didn't know Mass Death Ward was an actual spell until right this moment. I was merely extrapolating, I never checked any of the books for it. But it doesn't really affect the story either way, except for that I was pegging it at 7th level instead of 8th.

So that's why the spell fizzled!

Cheers, JohnH / Wanda

[LudiDrizzt]

This is generally how battles work in drama. Only in roleplaying games are they one-sided foregone conclusions which inevitably grind toward their predestined ending of 20% resource expenditure.

That sounds like such a Vaarsuvius line.

[Porthos]

That's what I wanted to say, but you beat me to it.

And the thing is, I like LotR. But, man, I can only imagine what would happen if it came out today. Especially in serial format.

[Blisstake]

Break Enchantment has a 1 minute casting time. Not the thing to cast under fire.

That didn't stop Zz'dtri in 800.