OOTS #806 - The Discussion Thread

[DougTheHead]

Why I'm spoilering a 60+ year old story, I have no idea, but here goes and simplfying hugely to avoid a lot of mess...

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I am referring to the fact that when Frodo got to Mt. Doom, Tolkein found that he simply could not have Frodo dump the ring into the lava because he made such a big deal about temptation.

Thus when writing his outline he came up with the idea of Hopping Happy Gollum plunging to his death when he failed his balance check.

It has been a bit of a source of commentary ever since it came out, you know.

Now mind, I still like the story. A lot, actually. But, really now.

Ah, kids today. I read LOTR before I knew the internet consisted of anything but AOL.

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Fair enough, I suppose. I thought it still worked as a natural outgrowth of what had gone before- Gollum's primary skill set seems to be in climbing sheer walls, and his slip shows how his desire for the ring robs him of something that had been second nature to him all this time.

At the same time, Frodo is not as corrupted as Gollum was- rather than killing anyone who tries to take the ring, he lets Gollum live despite it being against his own best interests. This leads to him surviving the episode, ironically because Gollum tries to turn on him in the end. The Mount Doom chapter is a lot more about the self-destructive nature of corruption and the possibility of redemption than any arbitrary plot-wrapping-up would be.

[Sith_Happens]

Yes, but in the thread for that strip the giant said he didn't look up the cast time. He knows what it is now.

And if you really want an in-universe explanation as well, Zz'dtri has been known to use house-ruled spells.

[the_tick_rules]

again with the wrong spells lol. Thor needs better assistants.

[NENAD]

What with all the negative levels being passed around, I'm starting to think the Giant wants to tell a lower level story. We currently have the Order pegged at around 11-12th, right?

[Alagaesian]

Waltz on over to the Geekery thread. They're estimated to be somewhere in the mid-teens.

[Killer Angel]

again with the wrong spells lol.

Care to elaborate, please?

Thor needs better assistants.

If you're talking 'bout the angels, I agree. But we all know that often Thor don't pay too much attention to things around Him...

[Anarion]

Does anyone else find it odd that Durkon actually pronounced all 3 words of the spell correctly (or at least they're transcribed for us without an accent)? I get the fact that he has a heavy Scottish/Dwarvish accent, but as Belkar said long ago
"He can pronounce 'stratosphere', but not 'the'?"

As for the negative levels, I think it's mostly that they happen to be one of the best ways to tackle a high level caster since you simultaneously deal damage and remove their strongest spells. Plus, there are relatively few ways to block negative energy, since turning into an undead doesn't really count and many others such as spell turning are short duration or of limited effect.

[Phishfood]

HAH! I read this one before making coffee, so the keyboard is safe.

Cleric Feather Fall, genius!

[Porthos]

Ah, kids today. I read LOTR before I knew the internet consisted of anything but AOL.

I'm not sure who you are calling a "kid", but it ain't the person who can trace his online usage to GEnie and FidoNet.

<SPOILER DELETED>

Your point is taken as well, but, remember, I was mostly kidding with my comments. Perhaps alluding to the comments that have been made surrounding the <SPOILERS DELETED> might be an even better way of putting it.

[factotum]

What with all the negative levels being passed around, I'm starting to think the Giant wants to tell a lower level story. We currently have the Order pegged at around 11-12th, right?

Given that Restoration is a spell easily within reach of even a level-drained Durkon, anything that happens here is likely to be temporary--unless Durkon himself is killed here, which is within the bounds of possibility (he's predicted to arrive back at his homeland posthumously, after all).

[Darthteej]

Geez, Giant got feisty yesterday, I can't recall the last time he made that many posts in a response thread. Guess all those complaints about the Linear Guild v. OotS matches finally got to him.

Great comic!

[Etcetera]

Holy Words?
baaaddddd pun.
Good comic, though.

[Burner28]

Alright!

[Onyavar]

Geez, Giant got feisty yesterday, I can't recall the last time he made that many posts in a response thread. Guess all those complaints about the Linear Guild v. OotS matches finally got to him.

Great comic!

Which is, in my opinion, not the proper way to treat a huge fanbase.

Mr Burlew, lean back and let the fans sort everything out themselves. If you jump in and explain every detail of how you composed the story and that you didn't look up this and that, you're really destroying the belief of several guys (like me), that you're the allknowing D&D+OotS god. If you don't lean back, the trolls will complain and nitpick until you revealed all your godly knowledge.

And yes, the update is great. As always.

[danielmayer]

yeeeeaaaah! Thor's back again!!!! I missed him so much, hope to see more of him. Durkon should discuss this matter via Commune :)
sounds really like colon tumors.

I vote for "bagel" as holy word! :)

[Icedaemon]

My bet is still the same: Durkon goes to get Malack's help, who does not turn out to have some convoluted reason to not wipe the floor with the linear guild.

[The Succubus]

And the thing is, I like LotR. But, man, I can only imagine what would happen if it came out today. Especially in serial format.

Well, people would be whining about the fact that the Eagles couldn't fly the ringbearers straight to Mount Doom, there would be a long in-depth discussion about the gender of Celeborn and an even longer one about Boromir's alignment and Tolkien would cry himself to sleep every night after reading the Saurman/Wormtongue crack pairing.

Am I close?

[Feytalist]

Just checking in to say:

"cleric's feather fall", heh.

[faustin]

again with the wrong spells lol. Thor needs better assistants.

Yeah, of course, is the assistants´fault.

[Icedaemon]

I am somewhat baffled at some of the commentary in this thread. A potent do-gooder does not manage to immediately decisively turn the tide and people are whining about deus ex machina. Honestly, were I the whiny sort, I would at most complain about the Giant being allowed to double post, which seems about as petty as any 'the story did not go how I thought! This is wrong!'.

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I am referring to the fact that when Frodo got to Mt. Doom, Tolkein found that he simply could not have Frodo dump the ring into the lava because he made such a big deal about temptation.

Thus when writing his outline he came up with the idea of Hopping Happy Gollum plunging to his death when he failed his balance check.

It has been a bit of a source of commentary ever since it came out, you know.

Now mind, I still like the story. A lot, actually. But, really now.

That's a very good point you have there.

It's a pain in 3.5, too.

If by pain you mean 'mild nuisance unless your characters have atrocious saves', sure.

[ThePhantasm]

One of the absolute funniest strips in a long time. Also, I think just about every time Thor shows up he is hilarious. Great strip.

Unpredictability and unfairness add spice to the drama, but in the end the result should be decided by the character's inner, own strenght.

Let's try to imagine how it'd have been if, say, Frodo and Sam reached the gates to Mordor only to find a conveniently-placed catapult aimed right into the volcano.
Or if Sauron pulled out an "Attract-O-Matic Wand" which would pull the One Ring from everywhere in the world right into his hands.
Or turn off the lava with a switch, for all that matters.

In my book, unfairness and unfunny tend to be quite close to each others, to be picked carefully.

Frodo arrives at the river, which suddenly and unexpectedly attacks the ringwraiths.

The battle at Helm's Deep is going great until Saruman suddenly and inexplicably destroys the wall with magic.

There are countless other examples. These things happen all the time in literature. What you are talking about happening at Mount Doom would of course be ridiculous, because it would be anticlimactic for the end of the trilogy. This isn't the end of the OOTS, however, just mid-battle, and is maintaining the tension and the suspense. The characters will show their inner strength plenty by adapting to these challenges. They haven't failed to have inner strength just because they can't predict everything that will happen. They are finite beings, after all, not gods. That makes them a lot more "human" and interesting then if they just kick straight ass all the time, and to be honest I like them more because of it.

[Ingus]

Uhm... I'm guessing that when someone disappoints Thor, goes to hell.
If someone spits in his beer, goes to public relations office.

By the way, relax: the Linear Guild is still in the lower hand. Belkar and the now giant-strenghted cat are still around to help.

[Zorgophlats]

I wonder what would happen if Belkar ends up being the one who "saves the day". Given that he is just pretending to be good, would a truly good act end up shifting his alignment? I'm starting to see Belkar act more and more neutral as of late. He seems to be getting more selfless as he does his act, but then later tries to justify it as selfish. I can't prove what I'm saying here, it's just a feeling I'm starting to get.

And let's not get into an argument over it. I know I could be wrong. It's just a thought.

[Wanderer]

Restoration, Durkon. All clerics need to have Restoration prepared. It will solve your level-drain problem quite nicely.

[hewhosaysfish]

Eh, I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if he just decides Break Enchantment has a 1 round casting time from now on. Wouldn't really make much of a difference. I wasn't saying un-stoning would be the best option, only that you shouldn't be surprised if he does manage it in a single round.

Eh, I figure it's kinda like a forgotten bonus: now that we (and be we, I mean the Giant) know the actual casting time that will be the casting time from now on.

[Burner28]

I wonder what would happen if Belkar ends up being the one who "saves the day". Given that he is just pretending to be good, would a truly good act end up shifting his alignment?
.

It wouldn't, considering all that he has done.

[ref]

Now that the Giant knows MDW is an actual spell, can we as-retcon-sume that it fizzled because it was too high of a level?

[Frozen_Northman]

Loved the "Clerical Feather Fall" spell. It reminds me of the "Clerical Sleep" spell that was regularly invoked in my own game. It required a specific material component - namely a mace to the back of the head.

[Adeptus]

Poor Durkon, a loyal customer of a lousy service provider.

[ThePhantasm]

Now that the Giant knows MDW is an actual spell, can we as-retcon-sume that it fizzled because it was too high of a level?

Nah.

Don't think it matters.