The Speedster [3.5 base class, PEACH]

[Grod_The_Giant]

I want to make a prestige class, advancing this class, and one of mine.
Unfortunately, Blitzkrieg strike isn't usable in rounds where you attack more than once (you even state it doesn't work on pounce), and the class I want to merge it with, it's key feature is dependent on hitting more than once/round

The restriction is largely one of balance. +28 damage on a charge isn't that absurd at 7th level, but with improved two-weapon fighting and pounce that number could go up to +112, which is more than enough to one-hit most CR 7 monsters. Perhaps if I add in language saying that the damage bonus only applies once?

I'd be interesting in seeing the PrC, though.

On an unrelated note, looking back at the Charge Mastery abilities, some of them are crap. Acrobatic Charge is rendered more or less useless by All Terrain (earth), Bob and Weave more-or-less supersedes Dive Roll, and Mobile Strike and Hit and Run do basically the same thing. I wanted to give options, but...

[Grod_The_Giant]

Updated Charge Mastery abilities to be cooler and more powerful. New/revised:

• Acrobatic Charge- While charging, you gain an untyped bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks equal to your bonus to speed. For example, a 7th level Speedster gains a +40 bonus to Tumble checks while charging.
• Hit and Run- attack without slowing down. This ability functions like the Ride-By Attack feat, except that he need not be mounted to use it. He can combine this ability with his Blitzkrieg Strike, dealing damage for the FULL distance moved, as long as he moves at least half the total distance before striking-- any less, and he's still accelerating, and only deals damage for the distance he's traveled before hitting his foe.
• Dancing Charge- When charging, the Speedster has a limited ability to change direction. For every 10 feet of movement, he can turn 45 degrees. This ability works similarly to a clumsy maneuverability while flying.
• Effortless Charge- A Speedster must have already taken Dancing Charge to take this ability. When making a Dancing Charge, he can turn 45 degrees for every 5 feet of movement.
• Pounce- Make a full attack at the end of a charge.
• Blitzkrieg Fury- If you wield two or more weapons, you may apply Blitzkrieg strike damage to the first attack made with each weapon. A Speedster must have Pounce to take this ability.
• Cheetah's Sprint- Once per day, a Speedster may move ten times his speed when he makes a charge.

[Lyndworm]

I really like the idea of this class, and I think that it's been executed fairly well. I'm not utterly convinced that it shouldn't be a PrC (as it is oddly an specific archetype), but I'm happy with it as it sits.

That said, I feel I should point out the horrible insanity that would be a Thri-Kreen Speedster. For example, at ECL 10 this monstrosity could have a quad-handed two attack Pounce (2.5x Str to damage), a base speed of 80ft, and a Jump check of over +100 (while charging). I'm not sure this is a bad thing, but it is most certainly delicious.

[Dr.Orpheus]

I realy like this class I also like the race quickling. I remember a lv 5 character I made could travel the distance a man on a horse could travle in 4 weaks in 2 minuets. I made psion nomads try to use the power trace teleport when ever I moved. I was rich because I stuffed everything I wanted in a bag of holding and ran. Away after I stole a wand of nondetection no casters folowed me. I had trackless step so no non-casters folowed me. I was not seen as a criminal because nobody saw me because of natural invisibility. What I am trying to say is speed is underrated there are lots of uses for it this class gives you more uses. I would like to create a gestalt quickling speadster/druid (with the druidic avenger variant for the barbarian fast movement and the other variant for the monk fast movement both in UA, the animal companion will not be fast enough to keep up and if i wild shape it will lower my speed.) If you reed sword and fist you read that creatures with higher base movement speeds get an more bonus speed from the monk fast movement, 40 ft. more per 10 ft. above 30 of base speed over 20 levels. That is 680 ft. of movement before magic witch can more than double it if you use 3ed expedious retreatand, then 3ed haste give you another action to move basicly multiplying the total movement by 1.5, take the dash feat for overkill, and cheetah's sprint is super, and so is faster than time. This totals to 114675 ft. plus i am likely forgeting somthing that could increase it more, but this is equal to 13031.25 miles per hour, about 70 times faster than a race car

[Grod_The_Giant]

That is mildly insane, although I'm pretty sure that in a gestalt game speed bonuses from two different classes wouldn't stack. Speedster + quickling is probably always going to be broken, though. What book is he from?

[Dr.Orpheus]

Quickling is from the tome of horrors some 3rd party publisher as far as I know but it was later put in pathfinder and a quickling was incuded in a part of the drizzt books

[Hanuman]

Level 17 ability needs a cap.

If people are going to use this class to abusive levels, perhaps you should add rules for exactly how fast is too fast.

Here's an example, a 6 str 6 con wizard already runs about as fast as the fastest man in the world currently, and moderately faster with the Run feat.

I'm a big believer in "Ex can bend physics", but at some point you're going to need to flavor it Su, have DR, cold and heat reduction, altitude sickness immunity, ect. just to counteract the little things, some sort of vision effect as if you move as a blur, or invisible it's relative and everything else is also going to be just as disorienting as you appear to be. Something to think about anyway.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Eh, not important enough to warrant any changes in the class. Might steal the speed-granted-concealment bit, though.

EDIT: This was a response to Dr. Orpheus only.

[Dr.Orpheus]

I'm a big believer in "Ex can bend physics", but at some point you're going to need to flavor it Su, have DR, cold and heat reduction, altitude sickness immunity, ect. just to counteract the little things, some sort of vision effect as if you move as a blur, or invisible it's relative and everything else is also going to be just as disorienting as you appear to be. Something to think about anyway.

I think that when a creature gains incredible speed resistance to friction, quickend vision, immunity to motion sickness, and the ability to stop quickly is included. Definetly if it is racial or from feats, probobly if it is from your class, and maybe if its magic however you should should not benafit from this when friction, bluryness of vision, and traction of your shoes are altered for the worse.

Eh, not important enough to warrant any changes in the class. Might steal the speed-granted-concealment bit, though.

you should look up the quickling to see its blur effect it gets whenever it moves

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think that when a creature gains incredible speed resistance to friction, quickend vision, immunity to motion sickness, and the ability to stop quickly is included. Definetly if it is racial or from feats, probobly if it is from your class, and maybe if its magic however you should should not benafit from this when friction, bluryness of vision, and traction of your shoes are altered for the worse.

And let's be honest. In a world where scrawny wizards can alter reality with a wave and a word, do we really care about physics? Especially when they make things more complicated, not less.
In any case, this is a class that is designed around running really fast. I'm not going to introduce mechanics that make it weaker or less fun to play.

you should look up the quickling to see its blur effect it gets whenever it moves

Did so on the Pathfinder wiki, and added Blur as the advanced Speed Stealth ability.

[flabort]

Besides, if you DO run so fast that you treat pieces of gravel as huge ramps, which send you into the ionosphere, it's only your fault if the DM makes you take massive cold damage. Same if you get infinite hits with Aptitude+Lightning Maces (and whatever), and he drops rocks on you. Or if you chain-gate solars, and he sics pup-pun on you.

But if you're running that fast, I'll bet you you'll regret nothing. You'd be able to "see your house from here", no matter where you went.

[Hanuman]

And let's be honest. In a world where scrawny wizards can alter reality with a wave and a word, do we really care about physics? Especially when they make things more complicated, not less.

DnD is a balance, but it's more of a balance of pepper than salt, some people like more realism and complexity, some like less.
Hell, people play Monostat, You are a 7, roll +7 for every roll

Mind you, we keep the suspension of disbelief by classifying some effects as "beyond explanation" which is the correct definition of magic or "supernatural" effects.

Besides, if you DO run so fast that you treat pieces of gravel as huge ramps, which send you into the ionosphere, it's only your fault if the DM makes you take massive cold damage.

Well I mean more like freezing to death as all your heat is conducted off of you, or if you move fast enough then igniting your clothing. I can't imagine breathing, seeing, ect. at that speed either... I mean if my players tried to move 100 squares a round I'd probably start giving them reflex saves for turning or each obstacle vs. falling damage =S

[Dr.Orpheus]

I think after some point you will be moveing to fast to hit dispite your AC. 114675ft. is alot. You will be outside your opponents field of vision and then do a hit and run and you will once agian be outside there vision, you canot be attacked even if you could be located (with a spot check DC your hide check + 5733 from range) because you would be out of range. Even a 20th level caster with a spell that has long range and if the spell enlarged that is 2400ft. max for any non-epic caster.

[jojolagger]

I am currently trying to find a way to use this class and other things to run through the earth. I'm only up to about 300,000 ft per round right now. will most method and tricks later, as I'm away from books and running this from memory right now.

[Dr.Orpheus]

what methods do you have so far this class is usefull but I know a few other tricks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think after some point you will be moveing to fast to hit dispite your AC. 114675ft. is alot. You will be outside your opponents field of vision and then do a hit and run and you will once agian be outside there vision, you canot be attacked even if you could be located (with a spot check DC your hide check + 5733 from range) because you would be out of range. Even a 20th level caster with a spell that has long range and if the spell enlarged that is 2400ft. max for any non-epic caster.

...holy crap. Where are you getting... oh, I see. You're using a monster race (that I can't find in 3.5), gestalt rules (which I think aren't applied right? Wouldn't you just use whichever speed boost was higher) and a couple of 3rd edition spells. Not to worry about.

I am currently trying to find a way to use this class and other things to run through the earth. I'm only up to about 300,000 ft per round right now. will most method and tricks later, as I'm away from books and running this from memory right now.

UNholy crap! That's...mildly insane.

I agree that Improved Blitzkrieg Strike might need a cap, although it IS worth noting that no matter how insanely high you get your speed, you need to have line of sight to charge your target.

[flabort]

So, concerning the PrC I said I wanted to make.

I have it so that you need three levels each in the two classes, requiring blitzkrieg strike + mobile strike from this side, and Barrage +2d6 from the other.

It advances the speed bonus, and gives +50 ft. over 10 levels. If you only take enough of the other class to qualify, and fill any left over with Speedster, you end up with 90 feet at 20th level, which makes sense for having 7+10 levels advancing that. Does that sentence make sense?

It also advances Barrage damage (from the other class), and I have a few ideas for extra abilities so that it actually meshes. I'm wondering a couple things, though.
A) what to name this prestige class.
B) when to give it extra Blitzkrieg Strikes per encounter
C) since it will never get Faster than Space/Time, or even Faster than Sound, what kind of Capstone do you think might be most... fitting.

edit: nevermind B). I'm giving him extra strikes at 1st, 4th, 7th, & 10th. This means he can potentially get 6 strikes (1st Speedster, 5th speedster, plus the four from the PrC, because the other class steals 3 levels, it can never get the 10th level strike from the base class).

Edit 2: So far, the only unique ability the PrC grants, is Blitzkrieg Volley, which allows you to deal 1.5 the bonus damage from blitzkrieg strike on a single charge, for two uses. You also have to hit twice (which usually means either having pounce, or eating a -6 to hit) to use it. I need more ideas

[Grod_The_Giant]

So, concerning the PrC I said I wanted to make.

You could always go the quick-and-easy route and call it the Speedblade, although that might already be a thing.

If you keep advancing basic abilities from two classes, you probably don't need many new abilities. Maybe an ability to temporarily trade land speed boost for more attacks/round, or a bonus on attack rolls for the round? And for a capstone, maybe allow Blitzkrieg Strike damage to apply to all hits in the round. It's not as cool as time stop, but it's hella powerful.

[Dr.Orpheus]

...holy crap. Where are you getting... oh, I see. You're using a monster race (that I can't find in 3.5), gestalt rules (which I think aren't applied right? Wouldn't you just use whichever speed boost was higher) and a couple of 3rd edition spells. Not to worry about.

I'm sorry about adding the fast movement from both classes together. However I overlooked the scout's fast movment which I think would stack, bcause the scouts fast movement is a set number that doubles at a particular level instead of an amount per X levels, they are distinctly different class abilitys dispite them having the same name. Also if the rules regurding a monks fast movement apply to the speedster then I could gain another 180ft. before multipication. I forgot the quick trait from the UA too. the new total is 221,000ft.

[jojolagger]

I'm sorry about adding the fast movement from both classes together. However I overlooked the scout's fast movment which I think would stack, bcause the scouts fast movement is a set number that doubles at a particular level instead of an amount per X levels, they are distinctly different class abilitys dispite them having the same name. Also if the rules regurding a monks fast movement apply to the speedster then I could gain another 180ft. before multipication. I forgot the quick trait from the UA too. the new total is 221,000ft.

Actually, I was using a graft the gave flight equal to twice land speed, Rapidwrath (which doubles speed), run (times 5) and fly like an arrow (times 10). Having x200 onto speed makes high numbers easy. Also an extended footsteps of the divine for more speed.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Actually, I was using a graft the gave flight equal to twice land speed, Rapidwrath (which doubles speed), run (times 5) and fly like an arrow (times 10). Having x200 onto speed makes high numbers easy. Also an extended footsteps of the divine for more speed.

I found a way to add on another 10ft. before multipication. If I apply that to what you have told me you get a total of 46,600,000ft. with an extended footsteps of the divine included. This speed is more than mach 4 one more mach and we will be faster than speed racer.

[flabort]

With DnD multiplication rules, that would only be x15 (10+(2-1)+(5-1)).
And with normal type maths, 10x2x5=20x5=100.

You must have included some numbers that you didn't post.

[jojolagger]

With DnD multiplication rules, that would only be x15 (10+(2-1)+(5-1)).
And with normal type maths, 10x2x5=20x5=100.

You must have included some numbers that you didn't post.

Flight equal to double land speed (x2) rapidwrath (x2) run (x5) fly like an arrow (x10).
Oh, and D&D multiplication rules only apply to exclusively in-game stuff (Damage). Real world values (distance, speed, weight) still use proper math.

[flabort]

Oh, right. Thanks, that makes more sense.

[Andion Isurand]

How about a system of energy points similar to a ki pool, to power each of the facets of moving quickly? I think the ethereal thing, cheetah's sprint, and the faster than X abilities could feed off the same pool of points.

The points could equal dex mod + class level.

I also think there could be room for adding a little sonic damage for striking someone at such a high speed.

And perhaps there could be a freedom of movement boost you could tap into as well.

[Hanuman]

That's pretty gross. I know a lot of people who play 4e because of stuff like this, considering the game is built around dungeon crawls with a LotR-esque flavor-- but I guess there's always fun in shooting the entire spanish invasion force dead with your space ray in space.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Added a damage cap to Blitzkrieg strike- no matter what you do, you can never deal more than ten times your class level bonus damage with it. Still a lot, potentially, but not abusive.

[Dr.Orpheus]

Added a damage cap to Blitzkrieg strike- no matter what you do, you can never deal more than ten times your class level bonus damage with it. Still a lot, potentially, but not abusive.

that sounds ok everything should have the ability to become powerful but not too powerful. My 2 power gaming specialties are movement speeds and undead fallowers, but I have started limiting myself to half of what I am capeable of, this way the DM does not leave the table to play dwarf fortress untill everyone has left his house.

[zegram 33]

im not sure how this would work mechanically without screwing up turn order, but what about allowing it to make attacks on multiple people in one turn, who arnt in a line?
like, ping ponging between three guys and then away to a safe distance, like an evolution of the ride by feat?
might not be possible, i dunno

[Grod_The_Giant]

im not sure how this would work mechanically without screwing up turn order, but what about allowing it to make attacks on multiple people in one turn, who arnt in a line?
like, ping ponging between three guys and then away to a safe distance, like an evolution of the ride by feat?
might not be possible, i dunno

Already covered by Mobile Strike, especially if you combo it with Hit and Run. But yeah, it's a pretty cool speedster-type staple.