OOTS #808 - The Discussion Thread

[VanBuren]

As much as I like Thog, I am hoping he's actually dead. IMO, this is a great and epic sendoff for him.

[rbetieh]

I just realized that Belkar is supposedly in the same area of the arena right now....rocks could fall on him too, now wouldnt that be Ironic? A little too Ironic?

[Chance Gardener]

That...

<insert Gordon Ramsay style dramatic pausing here>

...was excellent.

[FujinAkari]

That's a lot of hp, so if Thog was already hurt, it could leave him on death's door before the rockfall.

Unlikely. a lot of the damage was Subdual

[Lidya]

Stop talking.

These past few comics have incredible firsts for the protagonists:

1. Vaarsuvius doesn't let her anger get the better of her, even when she wins.
2. Belkar has a legitimately sweet moment with Mr. Scruffy and takes into responsibility his actions (to a point guys, it's Belkar).
3. Roy has an epic conclusion to a fight - and possibly moreso, his first fight won on terms of intelligence, not simply strength.

Great stepping stones, Giant. Even though characters like Belkar are bound to leave us soon, you never fail to develop them, do you?

[Lidya]

As much as I like Thog, I am hoping he's actually dead. IMO, this is a great and epic sendoff for him.

It would be even more epic, perhaps, if when this season ends, the last two panels are the rubble around Thog, and then Thog reaching his arm out of it.

[Gift Jeraff]

Imagine all Roy did was give Thog a playpen.

And does anyone else imagine Roy's last line in Red Forman's voice?

[Beeskee]

That was incredible.

And I'm thinking it's a toss-up between whether Thog is dead or not. Unless we start to see blood leaking out from that pile of rubble or something, I'd say the author is leaving it ambiguous.

[whitelaughter]

Nice to see Roy use his high intelligence score in a fight.

By the wasy, in panel 10, shouldn't Roy say "yourselves" instead of "yourself"?

No, in a crisis, it's best to force people to act as individuals: frex if you say "someone ring an ambulance" everyone will assume that someone else will do it, you're better off pointing to a specific individual and saying "you, phone an ambulance". By saying 'yourself' Roy makes every individual think they are the only person Roy is speaking to. (In short, Roy is using his Chr modifier well).
Example: any "[your country] Needs YOU!" recruitment poster.

Roy, Roy, Roy - crossclass skills are the rules' way of telling you that you chose the wrong class! If you wanted skills as well as butt-kicking, you should have gone Ranger or Barbarian! Or maybe take a level of Cleric with the Domains of Knowledge and War.
A Fighter with skill points belongs on a horse, using Ride and Handle Animal.

[Shoelessgdowar]

Awesome Roy! I hope Thog is finally dead.

Revenge for all those innocent people!

Actually, most of the beings Thog has killed had been found guilty, that is why they were in the arena. As Thog pointed out, most of his killing happened off-panel, and is therefore hearsay, inadmissible in court due to no corroborating evidence that verifies that Thog is not being falsely accused of the actions of another. Besides the killing he did at Nale's orders under Roy's supervision and the police he killed under Nale's orders, all of Thog's kills are not innocents until proven not guilty of whatever reason they were in the arena or are false charges as Thog is innocent until he is proven guilty. Heck, the police sketch looked nothing like Thog :)

Nice! Roy layeth the Smackdown on Thog's Candyass! Can you smell what the Roy has Cooking?

Um.... nothing... Roy doesn't cook. Belkar's the one with the cooking craft skill, Roy has the architecture and engineering knowledge skill... big difference.

Schrödinger's thog ?

Why not?

Bravo!

Loved it.

(although had to suspend disbelief a little since any human skull would fracture before a stone column surely... D&D or no D&D)

People break bricks with their head plenty... bricks just don't usually hit back (but Thog seems to be learning that they sometimes do)

Why do people keep saying things like this? I thought it was clear that Tarquin wanted Thog dead.

Depends, Tarquin doesn't care either way, Thog is entertaining, so he lives, and Tarquin may prefer Thog alive to dead because he is more profitable alive then dead. Malack wants Nale dead, and Sabine, Thog, Yikyik, and Z are all just means to getting Nale. Thog likes Nale-Pop, just like Thog likes Not-Nale, and Thog is easy to direct, so he might be better alive to Tarquin as a lure for Nale and a weapon to aim at foes then a useless corpse.

I just realized that Belkar is supposedly in the same area of the arena right now....rocks could fall on him too, now wouldnt that be Ironic? A little too Ironic?

No, not Iron-ic, cause the place is made of stone. It might rock. We could take it for granite that it just mite happen, heck it could still lag and the mite happen later to someone else... Heck Roy still lacks might at the moment and might just cave-in or crater at this point. But definitely not Iron-ic.

Is Roy going to be smart enough to check the body and coup de grace it?

Nope, Roy lacks the genre saavy, so he'll just go to try to be a hero.

7 per level? As a fighter? Roy's smart, but he's not that smart.

Third page, second through fourth panels.

I'm going to list the awesome things Roy does here.
1. Risks his life to save the civilians.
2. "I'm a big scary gladiator with permissive ideas about individual rights! BOO!"
3. The pillar destruction plan. So much.
4. "Stop talking." Ironic echo, anyone?
5. The last two panels.

This was completely worth the wait.

Arguable, but 6 or 7 skill points per level is really not that unlikely for him.

I may be failing basic arithmetic, but who's the third? We have Z and Thog down (at least thats what it seems). And as some one else pointed out, two for sure to go and a third is still possible.

Maybe Wanda is counting Qarr.

Okay.

So the fight status is as follows:

Haley: Stone. Neutralized.
Vaarsuvius: Plane-shifted. Neutralized.
Roy: Active, searching for new target.
Belkar & Mr. Scruffy: Active, seeking targets.
Elan & Durkon: Active, engaging Elan & Sabine.
Blackwing: Active, status unknown.

On the other side:
Nale & Sabine: Active, engaged with Elan & Durkon.
Kobold : Plane-shifted, neutralized.
Kobold animal companion: Unknown.
Zzd'tri: 0 HP, out of spells, captured by EOB. Neutralized.
Qark: Plane-shifted, neutralized.

And on the gripping side:
Tarquin and an unknown number of EOB allies: Active, not engaged.

At this point, it doesn't look like Nale will be able to win this one. But it also appears extremely likely that Tarquin will capture the lot. Then what?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Active Order: Elan, Durkon, Belkar, Blackwing, Mr.Scruffy, Roy
Inactive: Haley and Vaarsuvius (both of which are one spell away from being made active again)

Active Guild: Sabine, Nail, Unidentified Durkon opposite
Inactive: Sir Scraggly, Yukyuk, Thog, Qarr, Zz'dtri (Sir Scraggly, Z, and Thog are pretty much not able to return to the fight without a minimum of a day or more to be restored to combat capable, Qarr is not likely to return, Yukyuk is the most viable, and even then he may switch sides now that he and V are off on a madcap adventure)

6 to 8 vs 2 to 4... Guild is likely to be outnumbered real soon

If Thog is dead, it just gives Roy and Thog one more opposite: Roy died by a long fall to the ground, and Thog died by a long fall from the ground.

Actually to be a proper opposite, this would be Roy died from making a long fall onto the ground, Thog did not die from the ground making a long fall on to Thog. So to be a proper opposite, Thog has to live, despite not having a magical charm to try to save himself with.

I have to say I would like to see Thog dead simply so the order finally get an actual permanent victory over a plot important nemesis. However given their current luck against their foes i.e. the lack of permanent victories over plot important nemesises I am inclined to believe that Thog will be back.

Make it 1.2% and count me in. Please just let him be dead and give the Order a victory over something.
Well, and if he is still alive.. I like him still more than Elan (whom I really can not stand)

Yikyik, Yokyok, Miko, Mama Black Dragon? All gone and not coming back.

You serious? Did you even NOTICE Roy point out he is a murdering psychopath?

Roy's opinion could be wrong... Remember he did think Miko was attractive at first. Judge people by Elan's perspective, not Roy's. Roy's perspective is tainted and prejudiced.

With a touch of No One Could Have Survived That.

One in a million chance... which as we all know means he definitely did survive.

[VanBuren]

It would be even more epic, perhaps, if when this season ends, the last two panels are the rubble around Thog, and then Thog reaching his arm out of it.

See, I think that would be the point where Thog wears out his welcome in my mind. If he exits the stage here, it works for me as a send-off. This last time, he was introduced as the threat he actually was, rather than as... Thog. Thog being Thog, he can't stay that way if he keeps appearing, and it would be too jarring to reduce him back to comic relief after this.

Rich could surprise me, as he is prone to doing, but from where I'm sitting, the only winning move is for Thog not to play.

[paladinofshojo]

Anyone else curious as to why the fighter of the group sprung for cross-class skill ranks in knowledge of architecture and engineering?

[raymundo]

Yes. Besides, the "hand out of rumble"-thing is way to cliché to not have it parodied. I think it really would not fit to the style of the comic.. But maybe a dramatic multi shot close up to the rumble, switching to a worker scratching his behind and cleaning up the mess.

[Ping Pong Along]

Excellent comic. It's very understandable that a 4 page comic would take a little longer.

Here are my thoughts on Thog. I don't think he's going to make it out alive. This is the third attack by the Linear Guild. They've done an excellent job, but the OotS is rising to the challenge. I don't think we're going to see a fourth LG arise to take on our heroes. It would get too repetitive and it has already been rather unsuccessful. I think this comic has too much to cover still for there to be another appearance.

I would say that this was the last appearance of any of the members, but after thinking about it, that would be wrong. Sabine is a servant to the IFCC. Nale knows about the gates. Those two will make it out and I expect a more formal introduction between Nale and the IFCC.

[Anarion]

Anyone else curious as to why the fighter of the group sprung for cross-class skill ranks in knowledge of architecture and engineering?

Because the wizard was too busy taking ranks in knowledge (telling the laws of physics to shut up and sit down)?

[awibs]

Three cheers for a laugh-out-loud punchline!

[factotum]

Actually, most of the beings Thog has killed had been found guilty, that is why they were in the arena.

Er, yes, found guilty by a Lawful Evil court whose main interest is probably providing a steady stream of gladiators for Tarquin's arena. We know of at least four gladiators (Roy, Belkar, and the two lizardfolk who escaped a few strips ago) whose sole crime was taking part in a bar-room brawl--but they were found guilty, so obviously giving them a sentence tantamount to death is all right then.

[Killer Angel]

Anyone else curious as to why the fighter of the group sprung for cross-class skill ranks in knowledge of architecture and engineering?

Some reasons already listed:

A serious crunch answer would be that a PC could use his skill for:
* How to compromise a defensive fortification, with least effort
* How to design, improve, repair a defensive fortification
* When a structure was built
* What was likely behind a wall, as originally constructed
* Where the high priest's chambers is more likely to be, based on similar buildings for this god
* Where secret doors are more or less likely to be, thus cutting the tedious Search time down
* Design a charming appropriate-sized "bird house" for your air sylph SO

---------------

Unlikely. a lot of the damage was Subdual

And we all know that high level meleers can survive swimming in a lava pool...

[i6uuaq]

Nice! Roy layeth the Smackdown on Thog's Candyass! Can you smell what the Roy has Cooking?

I understand that the Roc had her meal marinated in beer, but otherwise raw.

[Gusion]

I just realized that Belkar is supposedly in the same area of the arena right now....rocks could fall on him too, now wouldnt that be Ironic? A little too Ironic?

Except he's not? That was a flashback scene in 807. Belkar is kinda/sorta close, I guess... since we know the pile of gold isn't super far away, but birds have a decent movement rate - and we have no idea how many rounds he flew to deliver the belt to kitty - so Belkar could be a fair distance from the arena itself. Plus, it obviously isn't a high traffic area as the gold is still there and nobody was around for Belkar to kill.

So he's fine.

It obviously didn't happen directly above him, and if he was anywhere on the edge than his evasion class feat (rangers get at lvl 9; rogues at lvl 2) would enable him to reflex save his way out of it entirely.

[Red XIV]

The question is, is Roy in the right area of the lobby to be able to retrieve his equipment before the guards show up?

[grimbold]

It would be even more epic, perhaps, if when this season ends, the last two panels are the rubble around Thog, and then Thog reaching his arm out of it.

this

this would be 100% OoTs and not surprise me at all
Lidya is my new favorite

[raymundo]

.. and not surprise me at all..

That is exactly why I think it will not happen. Well.. it would be kinda kick-ass nonetheless.

[SovietCommissar]

I know I'm 100% straggler, making a non-conversation-related post this many pages in, but what a strip. Seriously. I was actually going "what? What?" after the ceiling collapses.

Super-epic sendoff for Thog, if this is indeed "the end" for him. Also, yes, Roy's little speech is amusing, if strange in regards to the whole cross-classing remark.

[Icedaemon]

Loved the comic, Giant! The extra scenes and detail were definitely worth the wait. Also, Roy's rant at the end:

THAT'S how I use my Intelligence score in combat, DUMBASS!!

Absolutely brilliant!

The writing, I take it, what with Roy's comment indicating that he is not much more than a 'dumbass' himself, looking for flimsy excuses for why and how he could be considered superior?

[Kish]

The writing, I take it, what with Roy's comment indicating that he is not much more than a 'dumbass' himself, looking for flimsy excuses for why and how he could be considered superior?

Your mileage apparently varies, but I wouldn't call "I'm alive and the other guy's dead" a flimsy excuse for claiming superiority, m'self.

[SovietCommissar]

Your mileage apparently varies, but I wouldn't call "I'm alive and the other guy's dead" a flimsy excuse for claiming superiority, m'self.

Most heartily concurred. All the same, it's a bit of an action hero cheesy moment to say something to your downed opponent. Y'know, the whole "hasta la vista, baby" thing. It's like the opposite of villain monologuing.

[squidbreath]

Hell yeah! Way to go Roy!

[Raddish]

I just realized that Belkar is supposedly in the same area of the arena right now....rocks could fall on him too, now wouldnt that be Ironic? A little too Ironic?

I do believe you have confused Irony with coincidence.

It looks like a pretty localised collapse, there are a lot of pillars about so I would expect it not to really damage the structure of the rest of the building. The fact that 3 supports had to be taken out for a small collapse really shows that the place is pertty sturdy in my opinion.

[MoonCat]

Stop talking.

These past few comics have incredible firsts for the protagonists:

1. Vaarsuvius doesn't let her anger get the better of her, even when she wins.
2. Belkar has a legitimately sweet moment with Mr. Scruffy and takes into responsibility his actions (to a point guys, it's Belkar).
3. Roy has an epic conclusion to a fight - and possibly moreso, his first fight won on terms of intelligence, not simply strength.

Great stepping stones, Giant. Even though characters like Belkar are bound to leave us soon, you never fail to develop them, do you?

You know, these aren't firsts. There's been quite a few scenes with Belkar having a legitimately sweet moment.