OOTS #808 - The Discussion Thread

[doodthedud]

At any rate that's a tremendous lot of skill points spent on a fluff skill rather than core warrior specialty. But I guess that's because he's supposed to be a 'real person' rather than an ultra-optimized combat guy.

Why would Roy do that? Does he plan to become a civil engineer when he retires from adventuring?


Respectfully,

Brian P.

I would imagine knowing architecture could have a very real strategic advantage. Knowing how buildings are laid out and their weak points and strong points could have very real strategic benefits whenever fighting in any sort of building. It's really not an "out-of-nowhere" skill for someone who values intelligence and planning in their fights.

[Cranica]

With a touch of No One Could Have Survived That.

This is Tarquin we're talking about here. He's waaaaay too aware of story conventions to let that happen.

[Dr. Strangelove]

I would imagine knowing architecture could have a very real strategic advantage. Knowing how buildings are laid out and their weak points and strong points could have very real strategic benefits whenever fighting in any sort of building. It's really not an "out-of-nowhere" skill for someone who values intelligence and planning in their fights.

HE STOLE MY POST!!!

[Shoelessgdowar]

Er, yes, found guilty by a Lawful Evil court whose main interest is probably providing a steady stream of gladiators for Tarquin's arena. We know of at least four gladiators (Roy, Belkar, and the two lizardfolk who escaped a few strips ago) whose sole crime was taking part in a bar-room brawl--but they were found guilty, so obviously giving them a sentence tantamount to death is all right then.

1) The first part of Lawful Evil is Lawful, they do bad things inside the law.

2) No, actually Roy and Belkar were convicted of a crime of not having proper papers and therefore being in the country illegally. In the Empire of Blood they don't deport criminals, because then the criminals can just come back, they imprison the illegal immigrants and put them to work {Scrubbed}. As for Gannji and Enor... their licenses do not protect them from violence when the violence is because they screwed up and grabbed the wrong guy for a bounty, not to mention Gannji tried to extort money from the government. All 4 were guilty of their crimes, and actually since the arresting event was a fight, their sentence was designed to fit the crime, and everyone else in the fight was let go, only the three that started it and Roy's associate were arrested (Funny how Belkar, the alleged evil one who is also the chaotic one, was arrested because the Lawful and Good ones committed crimes).

3) Actually, as we've seen, Roy could get a job out of it. That is not tantamount to death. And further more, Red and Geoff both prove that being in the arena is not tantamount to death... maybe life in prison, but then again we don't know if there is sentences to serve or not since even if there were, Geoff and Red would have decades tacked on for their many attempts to escape.

[hamishspence]

1) The first part of Lawful Evil is Lawful, they do bad things inside the law.

Except in cases where Lawful Evil means "crimelord who controls subordinates through severe discipline".

[doodthedud]

HE STOLE MY POST!!!

Mwahaha! My pickpocket skill is unstoppable!

[Chad30]

Except in cases where Lawful Evil means "crimelord who controls subordinates through severe discipline".

Wouldn't that be neutral evil?

[hamishspence]

Depends how important "order" over "law" is when determining whether or not someone is Lawful.

LE crimelords do seem to be quite common in Faerun splatbooks.

And, as somebody (Porthos) pointed out in their sig "Being lawful doesn't mean you have to follow the law".

[Chad30]

Um, yes it does? That's kind of the definition of lawful, isn't it? If you don't follow the law, you're not lawful. Unless you're at least trying to follow the law, you shift into neutral.

Alignment systems are confusing sometimes.

[Kish]

Um, yes it does? That's kind of the definition of lawful, isn't it?

Yes, it is the definition of lawful, the dictionary term.

No, it is not anywhere near being the definition of Lawful, the D&D term, which is about being ordered. See the Player's Handbook.

[hamishspence]

The link in question:

Being Lawful doesn't mean you have to follow the law

Sometimes it's more about Order- having a personal code + trying to make the world (or your part of it) a more orderly place.

[Wonton]

Spectacular!

I don't know if many people realize this, but at four panels, this ties #200 for "longest comic". Seeing as I wasn't around when #200 was new, this makes me incredibly excited.

[Valley]

Good Roy, using your head like that.
...
I am sure somebody already made a joke like that but I had to say it.

[Chad30]

The link in question:

Being Lawful doesn't mean you have to follow the law

Sometimes it's more about Order- having a personal code + trying to make the world (or your part of it) a more orderly place.

Ok, I think I have a better idea now.

[Peelee]

Except he's not? That was a flashback scene in 807. Belkar is kinda/sorta close, I guess... since we know the pile of gold isn't super far away, but birds have a decent movement rate - and we have no idea how many rounds he flew to deliver the belt to kitty - so Belkar could be a fair distance from the arena itself. Plus, it obviously isn't a high traffic area as the gold is still there and nobody was around for Belkar to kill.

So he's fine.

It obviously didn't happen directly above him, and if he was anywhere on the edge than his evasion class feat (rangers get at lvl 9; rogues at lvl 2) would enable him to reflex save his way out of it entirely.

Unless Z and V flew pretty far in their battle, they fought in the same hallway the gold was in, and which Belkar is now in. Given that we just saw Z being hauled away by guards, logically Belkar would be pretty friggin' close by. Of course, that's only an assumption. Author's power can easily change the details so Z was carried pretty far if he doesn't want Belkar and Roy meeting up anytime soon

[Thattaman]

You... you maniac! You killed the orc! Damn you! Damn you all to hell!

[Dracarot]

It would be even more epic, perhaps, if when this season ends, the last two panels are the rubble around Thog, and then Thog reaching his arm out of it.

It is also possible that this can be parodied, by Thogs hand in fact reaching out from the rubble, only to see that it has been severed from the rest of the body.

Of course then we'd have to make sure the rest of the body was there or the Order will simply be dealing with a one armed Thog (unless healed of course).

[Rules Lawyer #1]

This comic fulfills a lot of expectation that Roy defeat Thog, but I'll be a little bit sad if Thog meets his end because Thog is such an awesome foil. My favorite panel is the one with the stone going "plink", but the upside down arches are a close second.

Any truly epic fight cannot be contained within the boundaries of an arena. This is known. No matter how large the arena is, it will always be partially or wholly destroyed. I was surprised to be unable to find this listed among common tropes . I hear by coin it as "The Arena Must Be Destroyed". This trope is used to demonstrate the epic power of the combatants involved. Note: this trope also applies to cities, buildings, mountains, or any otherwise "permanent" features in the environment.

I would say Belkar hears the crash and runs over to where Roy is but… due to the absence of onomatopoeia, he'll probably fail his listen check.

[Italian Hippy]

This comic actually made me EXULT and go "Orrraaaa!" when Roy points up. This is, without a doubt, THE most Epic fight between two D&D... no, between ANY two characters that I've ever seen.

Congratulations, Mr. Burlew. You truly are a tiny god of visual narrative. I applaud you and your incredible talent. You make me feel for the characters in a manner no author ever managed to. Your skill is simply amazing, and I wish I cold play a D&D campaign with you as my DM, just to see what you throw at me out of the depths of your amazing imagination

Con rispetto,

Italian Hippy.

[Adicted To]

You serious? Did you even NOTICE Roy point out he is a murdering psychopath?

And your point is that murdering psychopath's can't be loveable?

To say so is HERECY!!!

[Gift Jeraff]

Yeah, I think Thog is flat now.

Holy smoke, he's a toon!

[Random832]

The link in question:

Being Lawful doesn't mean you have to follow the law

Sometimes it's more about Order- having a personal code + trying to make the world (or your part of it) a more orderly place.

I used to dislike this... but on a metaphysical level, there's no real reason the legitimate state's laws [and where does that legitimacy derive from?] should have a "special" status for D&D alignment. It also allows e.g. a Lawful Good Paladin to operate in accordance with the laws of their organization in a country whose government is evil.

[Doorhandle]

Excellent point. I mean, on the surface, slaying a horde of goblins isn't that lawful or good on the surface is it?


But that's off topic. The topic is Roy Breaking Things With His Face (With Thog's Help.)

To commemorate this glorious occasion, I have made posters.

[Gusion]

Unless Z and V flew pretty far in their battle, they fought in the same hallway the gold was in, and which Belkar is now in. Given that we just saw Z being hauled away by guards, logically Belkar would be pretty friggin' close by. Of course, that's only an assumption. Author's power can easily change the details so Z was carried pretty far if he doesn't want Belkar and Roy meeting up anytime soon

Negative.

In 799 V and Z are fighting outside above the arena. V goes invisible and goes off the dominate Yukyuk (which we find out he's kinda into)... then in 800 V+1 leaves the gold pile and finds Z just randomly flying around. There is no indication that it is in the same hallway as the gold. We do not see the gold at all in 802, for instance.

Yes, the bird flies to the treasure in 803 - but again we have no idea how long he flies... his standard movement is 40 ft per round... but without knowing how long or if he's moving more than average speed it really doesn't tell us anything more than flying to the cat. Could be a couple hundred feet maybe?

It did just occur to me, if Belkar DOES go the way of the dodo, I wonder if Yukyuk will become part of the OOTS more permanently, since Z did try to kill him and all.

[TheNovak]

Hell YEAH!

Roy friggin' Greenhilt, ladies and gentlemen!

[Doorhandle]

It did just occur to me, if Belkar DOES go the way of the dodo, I wonder if Yukyuk will become part of the OOTS more permanently, since Z did try to kill him and all.

I hope so, but it seems unlikley as they already have a rouge.

[Gusion]

I hope so, but it seems unlikley as they already have a rouge.

Maybe, but V thinks of it as a "Short Duel-Wielding Murderer" slot. Wouldn't be the first wizard to view "ranger. rogue. whatever...."

[legomaster00156]

Yes, Roy, this IS how you employ intelligence into a fight. Bravo!

[Chad30]

One thing I have found odd is that the ranger uses daggers, and the rogue uses a bow. shouldn't that be the other way around? Not that it really matters, if you can still sneak attack with a bow. I can see Belkar preferring to be in his victim's face, so he goes with knives.

[Tobimaro]

And Roy brings down the house.

*ducks incoming magic missiles and runs*