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  1. - Top - End - #871

  2. - Top - End - #872
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Last edited by 137beth; 2013-08-09 at 11:56 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #873
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    The sand elemental was in fact killed.
    The Order of the Stick death pool thread -- place your bets! (Yes, it's still ongoing and maintained.)

  4. - Top - End - #874
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniffnoy View Post
    The sand elemental was in fact killed.
    You mean the Silicon elemental

  5. - Top - End - #875
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  6. - Top - End - #876

  7. - Top - End - #877
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Thats just explaining a D and D rule though isn't it?
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  8. - Top - End - #878
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Haley looting wands from Z's body was not a call-out to forum speculation about why she doesn't normally use wands.

    Not sure this is worthy of inclusion. Could be relevant to discussion about how much the Giant is influenced by the forum, and whether (and how) plot-critical those wands are likely to be.

  9. - Top - End - #879
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Thats just explaining a D and D rule though isn't it?
    No, it's explaining a philosophical concept as it applies in D&D. Like alignment, it is very setting-specific, which means he is explaining something about the OOTS-world.

  10. - Top - End - #880
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Coat View Post
    Haley looting wands from Z's body was not a call-out to forum speculation about why she doesn't normally use wands.

    Not sure this is worthy of inclusion. Could be relevant to discussion about how much the Giant is influenced by the forum, and whether (and how) plot-critical those wands are likely to be.
    I'd say no:
    in a couple months, no one will remember the thread about why Haley doesn't use wands, so this quote would be obsolete.

  11. - Top - End - #881
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    I'd say no:
    in a couple months, no one will remember the thread about why Haley doesn't use wands, so this quote would be obsolete.
    Due in part to within the next couple of months, she may in fact be using them. Especially if V keeps getting absented from battles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Messenger View Post
    I really would rather Tarquin finally just went all George R. R. Martin on Nale.
    That's right - George R. R. Martin; a writer so ruthless, his name is a verb akin to Samuel L. Jackson. Valar morghulis.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    The only thing worse than the usual irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry.

  12. - Top - End - #882
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    I also believe we already have quotes of him saying he doesn't let others influence his writing.
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  13. - Top - End - #883
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Petey7 View Post
    I also believe we already have quotes of him saying he doesn't let others influence his writing.
    It's in the FAQ:
    Q: Hey, you used my idea I posted! Cool!

    A: No, I didn't. Even if your idea that you posted completely matches what eventually happened, you can be sure I was not inspired by your post. Largely because I probably didn't read it (see above question).

  14. - Top - End - #884
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl45DM! View Post
    Thats just explaining a D and D rule though isn't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    No, it's explaining a philosophical concept as it applies in D&D. Like alignment, it is very setting-specific, which means he is explaining something about the OOTS-world.
    I think it might be necessary to include that explanation. In D&D it is possible for Golems, Skeletons or Zombies to be Free-Willed, even though none of these creatures are sentient. All that Free-Willed means in this context is that the Golem, Skeleton or Zombie in question is not under the control of a Cleric, Sorcerer or Wizard, and are probably running amok and killing things randomly.

    A Wight, Ghoul, Vampire or Mummy that lacks Free-Will is still sentient, until it breaks free of the Cleric, Wizard, Sire, or whoever, that is Controlling or Dominating it. Then they become Free-Willed Undead. Wights and Ghouls created by the Create Spawn ability are created Free-Willed; Vampires and Vampire Spawn are not. Wights and Ghouls created using Create Undead are not Free-Willed.

  15. - Top - End - #885
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    I think it might be necessary to include that explanation. In D&D it is possible for Golems, Skeletons or Zombies to be Free-Willed, even though none of these creatures are sentient. All that Free-Willed means in this context is that the Golem, Skeleton or Zombie in question is not under the control of a Cleric, Sorcerer or Wizard, and are probably running amok and killing things randomly.

    A Wight, Ghoul, Vampire or Mummy that lacks Free-Will is still sentient, until it breaks free of the Cleric, Wizard, Sire, or whoever, that is Controlling or Dominating it. Then they become Free-Willed Undead. Wights and Ghouls created by the Create Spawn ability are created Free-Willed; Vampires and Vampire Spawn are not. Wights and Ghouls created using Create Undead are not Free-Willed.
    Fully agree. I think it should be included.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2013-08-13 at 12:43 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #886
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Agreed. Red Cloak's speech about undead being tools confuses a lot of people who aren't familiar with the rules. I'd include it as a general "Undead and free will" explaination.

  17. - Top - End - #887
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Where can I find the Giant's quote from Phantasm's sig file? "This is why The Phantasm maintains his useful Index of the Giant's Comments."

  18. - Top - End - #888
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by GameJudge View Post
    Where can I find the Giant's quote from Phantasm's sig file? "This is why The Phantasm maintains his useful Index of the Giant's Comments."
    Right here. For future reference, clicking the green arrow symbol in a quote will take you to that quote's source.
    Order of the Stick Avatar done by the talented Kymme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Half-Hamster template gives me advantageous size and ability score bonuses, and combos well with my inherited Elderberry Radiance (Ex). Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!
    I was eating THOSE BEANS!!

  19. - Top - End - #889
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by GameJudge View Post
    Where can I find the Giant's quote from Phantasm's sig file? "This is why The Phantasm maintains his useful Index of the Giant's Comments."
    See that little right arrow next to your name in the quote box? Click that, and it takes you straight to the original post.

    But for now, you can just click here.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  20. - Top - End - #890
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Thank you both.

  21. - Top - End - #891
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Two. ..........
    There will be seven books in total.
    Last edited by DeliaP; 2013-08-15 at 10:15 AM.
    Geez, what is it with that guy and needing to figure out all the fiddly little details?

    I know, right? It's called "Suspension of Disbelief"...
    Quote Originally Posted by Everyl View Post
    Some speculation turns out to be accurate, some doesn't. I'll deal with it the same way I deal with all other speculative theories I read and/or come up with: by continuing to read the comic, and enjoying it whether the speculation turns out to be right or wrong.
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  22. - Top - End - #892
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
    - The Flying Kipper

  23. - Top - End - #893
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    I think it might be necessary to include that explanation. In D&D it is possible for Golems, Skeletons or Zombies to be Free-Willed, even though none of these creatures are sentient. All that Free-Willed means in this context is that the Golem, Skeleton or Zombie in question is not under the control of a Cleric, Sorcerer or Wizard, and are probably running amok and killing things randomly.

    A Wight, Ghoul, Vampire or Mummy that lacks Free-Will is still sentient, until it breaks free of the Cleric, Wizard, Sire, or whoever, that is Controlling or Dominating it. Then they become Free-Willed Undead. Wights and Ghouls created by the Create Spawn ability are created Free-Willed; Vampires and Vampire Spawn are not. Wights and Ghouls created using Create Undead are not Free-Willed.
    I don't think Rich went so far (or it is accurate in the rules) to state that descriptionnon-sentient creatures as Golems and Zombies as having free will. I agree that the term "free-will" is used primarily by the D&D authors to mean the creature is not being controlled by some external intelligence, but I thought it also had the meaning that the creature was controlled by its own intelligence, hence excluding non-inteligent creatures.

    Edit: Hence I think it might be good to include it, but not with any implications about zombies.
    Last edited by Reddish Mage; 2013-08-15 at 01:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

  24. - Top - End - #894
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I don't think Rich went so far (or it is accurate in the rules) to state that descriptionnon-sentient creatures as Golems and Zombies as having free will. I agree that the term "free-will" is used primarily by the D&D authors to mean the creature is not being controlled by some external intelligence, but I thought it also had the meaning that the creature was controlled by its own intelligence, hence excluding non-inteligent creatures.

    Edit: Hence I think it might be good to include it, but not with any implications about zombies.
    Sentience is usually indicated by a wisdom score, not intelligence (and anything without a wisdom score is an object, not a creature). Zombies have wisdom scores.

    In any event, the "rules" for what constitutes free-will are setting-specific, so what is shown in the comic and what the giant says about it are all we have to go on.

  25. - Top - End - #895
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    Last edited by Sky_Schemer; 2013-08-15 at 02:50 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #896
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    I think this is the one which should be included since it gives the fullest answer.
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  27. - Top - End - #897
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    I think this is the one which should be included since it gives the fullest answer.
    Agreed, there's no reason to have both.

  28. - Top - End - #898
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddish Mage View Post
    I don't think Rich went so far (or it is accurate in the rules) to state that descriptionnon-sentient creatures as Golems and Zombies as having free will. I agree that the term "free-will" is used primarily by the D&D authors to mean the creature is not being controlled by some external intelligence, but I thought it also had the meaning that the creature was controlled by its own intelligence, hence excluding non-inteligent creatures.

    Edit: Hence I think it might be good to include it, but not with any implications about zombies.
    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Sentience is usually indicated by a wisdom score, not intelligence (and anything without a wisdom score is an object, not a creature). Zombies have wisdom scores.

    In any event, the "rules" for what constitutes free-will are setting-specific, so what is shown in the comic and what the giant says about it are all we have to go on.
    Zombies and Golems are non-sentient beings: they have no Intelligence score. A Zombie or Golem that breaks free of the spellcaster who created it will often run amuck and attack anything in sight. This is because it is "Free-Willed"; it still lacks an Intelligence score and is thus non-sentient. Tsukiko's Wights, Durkon while he was Malack's thrall, and Belkar while he was dominated by Nale or Malack, all lacked "Free-Will". Tsukiko's Wights, Durkon, and Belkar (all indications to the contrary), have Intelligence scores and are considered sentient, even while under Tsukiko, Malack or Nale's control.

  29. - Top - End - #899
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    Zombies and Golems are non-sentient beings: they have no Intelligence score. A Zombie or Golem that breaks free of the spellcaster who created it will often run amuck and attack anything in sight. This is because it is "Free-Willed"; it still lacks an Intelligence score and is thus non-sentient. Tsukiko's Wights, Durkon while he was Malack's thrall, and Belkar while he was dominated by Nale or Malack, all lacked "Free-Will". Tsukiko's Wights, Durkon, and Belkar (all indications to the contrary), have Intelligence scores and are considered sentient, even while under Tsukiko, Malack or Nale's control.
    Huh...I seem to recall a table in one of the books (possibly the MM1) describing a wisdom score of 1-2 as indicating a creature was "barely sentient"...
    let's see if I can track that down...

  30. - Top - End - #900
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    Default Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Huh...I seem to recall a table in one of the books (possibly the MM1) describing a wisdom score of 1-2 as indicating a creature was "barely sentient"...
    let's see if I can track that down...
    Barely sentient perhaps, but not sapient, which is probably what Sir Leorik meant.
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