The Index of the Giant's Comments

[Dr. Gamera]

For the last ten years, the dependence of the very first OOTS strip on knowledge of D&D 3.5 has been a barrier to new readers.

[ChristianSt]

New comment is up.

New comment is up.

It would be really helpful to provide not only a link, but also a short summary, without any summary I* am forced to go through that link to only see that this is something I have already read - which makes it easier for everyone (Should make it easier for ThePhantasm if he is going to add something, also helps to stop double-reporting of the same quote).

*You could probably replace "I" with something else, I think other people could have the same feeling about that ;)

[Yendor]

Disintegrate is useful.

[Porthos]

The IFCC are not a nod to the Shadowlords from Ultima V in any way shape or form.

[Shale]

It would be really helpful to provide not only a link, but also a short summary, without any summary I* am forced to go through that link to only see that this is something I have already read - which makes it easier for everyone (Should make it easier for ThePhantasm if he is going to add something, also helps to stop double-reporting of the same quote).

*You could probably replace "I" with something else, I think other people could have the same feeling about that ;)

Agreed. Since we don't track every single thing the Giant says on the forum (we're stalkers, but not that stalkery), a post should have some sort of justification for why a particular comment warrants indexing.

[The Recreator]

For the last ten years, the dependence of the very first OOTS strip on knowledge of D&D 3.5 has been a barrier to new readers.

Personally, I am far more interested in what the Giant has to say in there on a series needing time to reach its full potential and why he thinks Avatar: The Last Airbender is one of the best series he has ever watched. We already know that the Giant considers the early D&D jokes to be a hindrance to accessibility, but I think it's a breath of fresh air to learn that the Giant doesn't work in a creative vacuum. Learning the Giant's perspective on other media also helps me to better understand the writing process and what makes great media great.

Mr. Burlew, if you are reading this, I would love to hear more about what storytelling lessons you pulled from works like Avatar and Babylon 5 - in fact, I finally watched Babylon 5 a year back because of your recommendation.

[ThePhantasm]

Somewhat agree but discussion of planes should not take place here. Discussions about whether something should be included in this Index is probably OK. Ideally this thread would simply list the Giant's comments, period.

No, ideally it wouldn't. That's not what the index is for. You can use the Google query listed above for that. You can use the Giant's post history for that (when that sort of thing gets reinstated... one day). This index was created to specially select quotes that addressed recurring issues or matters of confusion in forum discussions. From the thread guidelines (decided by vote in the thread):

c) The index is a forum tool, meant primarily to provide easy access to direct statements from the author for the purpose of forum discussion. Thus, while the index may be fun to read through on a whim, this is not its primary purpose or focus - it is a research aid more than it is a trivia collection.

If you feel like a thread is going off topic, the thing to do is to report it to a mod so they can nudge it back on track. What I'm seeing instead though is that for the past few pages people are expressing their frustrations over and over about the thread not being a sort of regularly updating feed of the Giant's comments with zero discussion. That's never what this thread has been about, and its been around for almost two years now.

Again, there's the Google query option (which works brilliantly, just bookmark it), and there's the "updates" tab at the bottom of the index itself which lists all the latest entries into the index. Those give you what you want, with no discussion in the way.

The only way there would be no discussion in this thread would be if I ran it like a tyrant, without a care for anyone's input. That's the opposite of what I want to do. I want this to be a community project.

[Geordnet]

I for one think that posts where the Giant talks about the literary process should be indexed too, though. After all, they're pretty helpful to aspiring authors who want to do some "research" by getting the introspective of a much more experienced author.

[theangelJean]

I for one think that posts where the Giant talks about the literary process should be indexed too, though. After all, they're pretty helpful to aspiring authors who want to do some "research" by getting the introspective of a much more experienced author.

I don't think that anyone has advocated, or decided, not to include a quote from the Giant about literary process.

There have been some recent ones that haven't made it onto the Index in the first post yet, but that's because ThePhantasm is the only one who can update the first post, so it only happens when ThePhantasm has time.

On the other hand, I agree that continuing discussion on the actual topics The Giant is posting about - such as The Recreator's response a few posts up - really belongs in the thread where The Giant posted originally, not this thread. If anything, he has more reason to read and respond to that thread than to this one.

[LadyEowyn]

I don't think so. The stated purpose of this thread is to help people who are discussing the comic; for example, if the Giant shoots a theory down or tells us a character's alignment, then people don't need to continue discussing that ad nauseum, and if they do there's a handy source other posters can point them towards.

It may interest some people to know that the Giant likes Avatar: The Last Airbender or thinks Aquaman is awesome, but it's not really pertinent, and the index will get too large if we record everything he says. There's already tons of comments on a few smaller story topics (esp. Tarquin) just because people talk about them so much.

[ti'esar]

I don't think so. The stated purpose of this thread is to help people who are discussing the comic; for example, if the Giant shoots a theory down or tells us a character's alignment, then people don't need to continue discussing that ad nauseum, and if they do there's a handy source other posters can point them towards.

It may interest some people to know that the Giant likes Avatar: The Last Airbender or thinks Aquaman is awesome, but it's not really pertinent, and the index will get too large if we record everything he says. There's already tons of comments on a few smaller story topics (esp. Tarquin) just because people talk about them so much.

I have to say that I sympathize with this. It sometimes feels like the index is drowning in relatively-insignificant minutiae because Rich is more likely to comment on it than on plot-critical issues.

In fact, if I remember correctly, we didn't include that defense of Aquaman.

[Bird]

I don't know if this would just make things worse, but maybe there could be a secondary catch-all list that has all the minutia. Sort of like how the MitD thread has a showcase of the best fits, but anything with even a minimal defense has a place for inclusion.

*

To me, the post on Avatar is highly relevant, because it deals with the Giant's theories and attitudes on storytelling. It's a nice look behind the curtain of OotS, even if OotS isn't its direct subject.

I want to know everything he thinks about Aquaman, too (and I DC to hire him to write the book), but that's just me.

[Cizak]

Ideally this thread would simply list the Giant's comments, period.

Such a list exists. It's the very first post of this thread.

[Geordnet]

I don't know if this would just make things worse, but maybe there could be a secondary catch-all list that has all the minutia. Sort of like how the MitD thread has a showcase of the best fits, but anything with even a minimal defense has a place for inclusion.

I second this suggestion.

[DaggerPen]

I don't know if this would just make things worse, but maybe there could be a secondary catch-all list that has all the minutia. Sort of like how the MitD thread has a showcase of the best fits, but anything with even a minimal defense has a place for inclusion.

*

To me, the post on Avatar is highly relevant, because it deals with the Giant's theories and attitudes on storytelling. It's a nice look behind the curtain of OotS, even if OotS isn't its direct subject.

I want to know everything he thinks about Aquaman, too (and I DC to hire him to write the book), but that's just me.

I like that idea, but how would it work, logistically? Would they just be chronologically ordered, with no categorization, under an "errata" section or something?

(Also, I don't, not until they start treating their creators with more respect. But that's a conversation for a different thread.)

[Peelee]

Such a list exists. It's the very first post of this thread.

I think you may have won another thread.

[ThePhantasm]

I have to say that I sympathize with this. It sometimes feels like the index is drowning in relatively-insignificant minutiae because Rich is more likely to comment on it than on plot-critical issues.

In fact, if I remember correctly, we didn't include that defense of Aquaman.

Yes, and therein lies another potentially helpful measure we can take... if you guys feel that a certain quote is no longer needed in the index, nominate said quote and lets discuss it. It might not be a bad idea to trim the index down a bit.

However, I'm going to add the latest quotes to the index this weekend (tomorrow), so any reorganizing measures (removing quotes, adding tables, adding sections, cleaning up, etc.) won't happen until after that. Which is okay, these things take time to do right.

[Spoomeister]

You may use this Google query for that purpose.

This index is a community project, not just the project of one poster. Thus, discussion about the index (and suggested quotes) is not only permitted in this thread, it is encouraged.

Not to discourage or put down the good work done to try to curate the comment archive, but with that Google query available, is this thread even needed anymore?

[pendell]

Yes, it is. The phrase "The Giant" shows up in a bunch of places besides direct quotes. *I* find it useful, anyway. So does the Giant.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Shale]

Not to discourage or put down the good work done to try to curate the comment archive, but with that Google query available, is this thread even needed anymore?

That Google query is a good way to see every single thing Rich says on the forum. If you want to know what he's said about a particular topic, ThePhantasm's list is far far far more helpful.

[ChristianSt]

Not to discourage or put down the good work done to try to curate the comment archive, but with that Google query available, is this thread even needed anymore?

Short answer: yes

Long answer: While it is certainly possible to use google, it really helps only if you know a certain quote exists. You can't really check that easily if there exists a quote on a certain topic, also it is much harder to guess whether a quote is what you need, a short synopsis is really helpful (especially with some of the more verbose quotes).

One of the bigger challenges is to find a good way to organize them, and I think we should be able to make something better than a simple list. Finding the right quote is hard, we want to make that as easy as possible. Also it is much easier if we can discard unneeded quotes beforehand. That both tasks that google can't handle that well.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes, it is. The phrase "The Giant" shows up in a bunch of places besides direct quotes. *I* find it useful, anyway. So does the Giant.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Brian,

Note that the Google query doesn't search for The Giant's screen name, but for a certain phrase in his signature that is only ever present in his posts. It is rather clever, actually.

GW

[ThePhantasm]

Not to discourage or put down the good work done to try to curate the comment archive, but with that Google query available, is this thread even needed anymore?

When the Index was started, we still had access to the Giant's actual post history on the forum. The Index wasn't redundant then, and isn't redundant now. But I've already explained this on this very page, and it is even explained in the thread "rules."

[The Giant]

OK, I think I’m going to have to chime in here.

I am fully in support of this project to document stuff I’ve said about OOTS so that people can stop arguing about it, but there has to be a line drawn. And I think that line is when I’m talking about other topics on other parts of this message board. Because otherwise, it’s like following me around with a tape recorder and everything I say about any topic becomes “on the record.” And that’s just creepy.

When I responded to that thread, I did so because I wanted to talk about that subject, not OOTS. But even as I did, a voice in the back of my head said, “They’ll probably link this for some reason in the index.” And here we are. Which means that ultimately, I can’t hold a casual conversation on the message board that I own—I can only make pronouncements that will be relinked and analyzed by the whole community. The end result of that will be me not talking about anything, because that makes me uncomfortable. So if your interest is in reading my thoughts on the creative process, linking them here is a surefire way to guarantee I never share such thoughts again.

If you want to follow everything I say about every topic because you like to read every word I write, I would ask that you do so under your own initiative. Please don’t just link here to every post I make. If it’s not about OOTS and/or it’s not in the OOTS board, I'd ask that it not be in the index.

[ThePhantasm]

Thanks, Rich.

Again, I'll reiterate for everyone:

This index was created to specially select quotes that addressed recurring issues or matters of confusion in forum discussions.

Its a way of clarifying things in discussions, not an encyclopedia of everything the Giant has said. Frankly, the reason it takes me so long to update the index is that I have a huge volume of quotes to sift through each time, some even suggested repeatedly, and a lot of them prefaced by "this probably doesn't belong in the index *but* the Giant said it so I'm posting it here..."

[pendell]

Brian,

Note that the Google query doesn't search for The Giant's screen name, but for a certain phrase in his signature that is only ever present in his posts. It is rather clever, actually.

GW

Noted. Thank you.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Fish]

Rich, do you feel that there are any links now in the Index that should, by that criterion, be culled?

Even if not, I would suggest to the thread that all links be revisited, and the list pared down. There may be many borderline cases of quotes not pertaining to specific OOTS controversies, but only to interesting tidbits about the creative process.

[ThePhantasm]

I would suggest to the thread that all links be revisited, and the list pared down. There may be many borderline cases of quotes not pertaining to specific OOTS controversies, but only to interesting tidbits about the creative process.

*Ahem* (further up the page)

If you guys feel that a certain quote is no longer needed in the index, nominate said quote and lets discuss it. It might not be a bad idea to trim the index down a bit.

There are certainly some quotes in the index that used to address recurring issues that just don't pop up as much anymore. These can be discussed on a case-by-case basis. First though, I need to figure out what to include in the latest update (I'll try to do it this weekend) and then we can figure out trimming / reorganizing the index.

[Dr. Gamera]

I am fully in support of this project to document stuff I’ve said about OOTS so that people can stop arguing about it, but there has to be a line drawn. And I think that line is when I’m talking about other topics on other parts of this message board. Because otherwise, it’s like following me around with a tape recorder and everything I say about any topic becomes “on the record.” And that’s just creepy.

Oops, sorry. Not trying to stalk you. Will be more careful in the future.

[War-Wren]

Because otherwise, it’s like following me around with a tape recorder and everything I say about any topic becomes “on the record.” And that’s just creepy.

'Stalk, stalk, stalk, stalk the Giant and record his every word!'