[3.P] Racial "fixes" (PEACH) (Gnolls First)

[NineThePuma]

Just to be clear, I'm balancing around the Pathfinder races.

First are the Gnolls, who went from "bruisers" to "hunters" and I generally wanted them to feel like they were less "GRAR, RAPE AND PILLAGE" who only want food and to be more "primal hunters" with Scent. Now the question is, "Is this race usable?"

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• Dexterity +2, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2.
• Size Medium.
• A gnoll’s base land speed is 40 feet.
• Scent.
• +1 natural armor bonus.
• Automatic Languages: Gnoll, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Orc.
• Favored Class: Ranger.

[Yitzi]

It's clearly +1 LA, but certainly seems a playable race.

[NeoSeraphi]

It's clearly +1 LA, but certainly seems a playable race.

I dunno, Pathfinder races are pretty strong.

The bonuses to its stats are standard, so what is superior about it?

It gets +1 NA, +10' speed, and the scent ability. That all is pretty strong, but I wouldn't say it's LA +1.

[NineThePuma]

Part of me wants to give them, say, Net or Bolos proficiency. But that might be a bit much..

[Seerow]

Part of me wants to give them, say, Net or Bolos proficiency. But that might be a bit much..

It's not like they're particularly strong proficiencies. I don't see any reason for it, but I also see no reason not to.

[Yitzi]

I dunno, Pathfinder races are pretty strong.

The bonuses to its stats are standard, so what is superior about it?

It gets +1 NA, +10' speed, and the scent ability. That all is pretty strong, but I wouldn't say it's LA +1.

Oh, I missed that it's Pathfinder. So yeah, then it's a +0 LA race.

[Tanuki Tales]

Just chiming in;

I know the playtest rules are borked and are being re-written, but since they're the only semi-official standard until April, I just felt that I'd like to say that the updated Gnoll is still weak by Pathfinder's current race building rule sets.

Scent is 4 points, +1 Natural Armor is 2 points and Speed increase by 10 feet is 1 point.

Base races are supposed to be 10 points (borked, as said, but also as said, only semi-official rules currently).

I can't remember if the Xenophobic Language array (which is what I believe these Gnolls have) was 0 or -1 points, but we'll go with 0 for now.

So the grand total is 7 points, 3 points shy of the current semi-official standard for base race power in PF.

[NineThePuma]

Link to standards?

[NeoSeraphi]

Just chiming in;

I know the playtest rules are borked and are being re-written, but since they're the only semi-official standard until April, I just felt that I'd like to say that the updated Gnoll is still weak by Pathfinder's current race building rule sets.

Scent is 4 points, +1 Natural Armor is 2 points and Speed increase by 10 feet is 1 point.

Base races are supposed to be 10 points (borked, as said, but also as said, only semi-official rules currently).

I can't remember if the Xenophobic Language array (which is what I believe these Gnolls have) was 0 or -1 points, but we'll go with 0 for now.

So the grand total is 7 points, 3 points shy of the current semi-official standard for base race power in PF.

Clearly they need scaling spell resistance then.

[Tanuki Tales]

Link to standards?

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcp6&source=rss

[Seerow]

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcp6&source=rss

Yes, the system that tells us +2 to a skill is worth as much as scaling spell resistance, and worth far more than +move speed.


Please, that system is a piece of crap and eyeballing wins out over even bothering to look at it.

[Togath]

Still the race here is a little dull, perhaps granting it a weak(but flavorful)
feat such as endurance or run as a bonus feat?
It would boost the race closer to other pf races, and make it a more interesting choice for a race to play as.

[AugustNights]

Please, that system is a piece of crap and eyeballing wins out over even bothering to look at it.

A curiosity, do you prefer or recommend a better system, or perhaps have one of your own?

OP: It's pretty boring, isn't it? Why not add some flavorful, uniquish abilities? As it stands, I wouldn't really want to play this race. The 40 move speed is nice, but not that nice. Scent is alright, but easy to get through other sources, and +1 Natural Armor class isn't really all that impressive. No Darkvision? No racial bonus to Hide (if only in a certain terrain type)? No EX ability based on the sheer horror that a Hyena is? Maybe a bonus on CMB on trip attacks? Maybe an ability to eat anything organic? I dunno. Right now it feels like more of a set of ability bonuses and a penalty without much to sink one's teeth into, which is my take on many races.
What makes a Gnoll unique?
Why should I play one?
Why not play an X instead?

[Tanuki Tales]

Yes, the system that tells us +2 to a skill is worth as much as scaling spell resistance, and worth far more than +move speed.


Please, that system is a piece of crap and eyeballing wins out over even bothering to look at it.

Scaling SR (6+HD) is worth more like Skill Focus since they already had racial feats for granting SR before the ARG playtest was launched, so it's not as crap as you say in at least that case.

And honestly, movement speed is still something not worth much anything since movement has no real impact on combat and is usually handwaved or roleplayed away out of combat.

So...while the current race building rules are somewhat borked, your particular issue with it holds not much substance.

[RedWarlock]

Plus, y'know, PF's skill focus scales. Not greatly, but it does improve, with precedent for more. (Does PF do epic in their core? 'Cuz I could see that bonus bumping at, say, 25/30 ranks..)

And it's an estimation, anyway. It's the edition-old question, what's better, power now, or power later? Which one IS better, well, it depends. In rough terms, they feel they're similar. (Plus, it's a beta. Values and judgements could change.)

[NineThePuma]

How about the following racial trait?

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Necrotic Resistance: When a Gnoll would receive a negative level, they may make a fortitude save to avoid taking the negative level. This save is at the same DC as it would be 24 hours later. In addition, Gnolls take half damage from negative energy.

And here's the next race.

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Warforged scouts possess the following racial traits.
• +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, –2 Strength, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
• Type: Construct (Living Construct)
• Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
• A warforged scout’s base land speed is 30 feet.
• Stealth*Plating (Ex): The stealth plating used to build warforged scouts provides a +1 armor bonus. This plating is not natural armor and does not stack with other effects that give an armor bonus (other than natural armor). This composite plating occupies the same space on the body as a suit of armor or a robe, and thus a warforged scout cannot wear armor or magic robes. A warforged scout can be enchanted just as armor can be. The creature must be present for the entire time it takes to enchant him.
Stealth plating also provides a warforged scout with a 5% arcane spell failure chance, similar to the penalty for wearing light armor. Any class ability that allows a warforged scout to ignore the arcane spell failure chance for light armor lets him ignore this penalty as well.
Stealth Plating provides a +2 circumstance bonus to both Hide and Move Silently checks, as though it was a Masterwork Tool.
• Light Fortification (Ex): When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a warforged scout, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally.
• +2 racial bonus to Spot and Listen checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus Languages: None.
• Favored Class: Does anyone use these rules anymore?

[Hyudra]

They're scavengers, what about...

Carrion Eater: Gnolls are capable of subsisting on a diet that would leave others ill or dying. They get a +4 to saving throws to avoid contracting diseases from foods they eat, and a +2 to saving throws against ingested poisons.

[NineThePuma]

Way too circumstantial. I've yet to have a DM cover ingested diseases. I mean... Are there any ingested diseases right now?

[Hyudra]

Way too circumstantial. I've yet to have a DM cover ingested diseases. I mean... Are there any ingested diseases right now?

Blue guts, and depending on how your DM handles it, eating the flesh of other humanoids can cause ghoul fever.

[NeoSeraphi]

Favored Classes in Pathfinder are relevant, Nine. You get extra hit points or skill points when you take levels in them. (I don't think Pathfinder has multiclassing XP penalties)

[NineThePuma]

Favored class would be Magitech Templar, then.

[Cieyrin]

Favored Classes in Pathfinder are relevant, Nine. You get extra hit points or skill points when you take levels in them. (I don't think Pathfinder has multiclassing XP penalties)

Indeed, not to mention alternate favored class bonuses that can really make a difference, like Half-Elf Summoners getting bonus evolution points or Human Sorcerers getting bonus spells known. It's a nicer system, where you get a benefit for straight classing, as opposed to a penalty for uneven multiclassing.

[Tanuki Tales]

Favored class would be Magitech Templar, then.

That's not how Favored Class works in Pathfinder.

[NineThePuma]

That's not how Favored Class works in Pathfinder.

MagiTech Templar is a class. The Warforged in my 'verse favor it.

How does that not work?

[Tanuki Tales]

MagiTech Templar is a class. The Warforged in my 'verse favor it.

How does that not work?

Races don't have "Favored Classes" anymore.

You pick a base class and whenever you take a level in it you get 1 HP or 1 skill point (depending on what you selected) or the special racial benefit you get for selecting a specific class as your Favored class.

[NineThePuma]

... Okay, as of this moment, that is not how favored classes work in my Pathfinder Campaign Setting book. Therefore, I'm ignoring it.

I don't care what the "Advanced Races Guide" might do. It's not out yet.

[Tanuki Tales]

... Okay, as of this moment, that is not how favored classes work in my Pathfinder Campaign Setting book. Therefore, I'm ignoring it.

I don't care what the "Advanced Races Guide" might do. It's not out yet.

Um, that's from core, not the ARG.

Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Prestige Classes) can never be a favored class.

From the Pathfinder SRD.

[NineThePuma]

That's from the APG, sorry. They changed how it worked later on.

Either way, it doesn't matter.

[Cieyrin]

That's from the APG, sorry. They changed how it worked later on.

Either way, it doesn't matter.

It was expanded in the APG but it's been that way since Core released. Races having specific classes they can only use as their favored classes was last seen in PF Beta. But yes, as you say, it doesn't really matter.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That's from the APG, sorry. They changed how it worked later on.

Open up your core book and look at the races chapter. Now.