(New RPG) Rogue: Clandestine Operations (comments are welcome)

[Vixsor Lumin]

They couldn't build compound bows, no. That's a modern invention. A straight up recurve would probably keep the same stats as a bow, but smaller and rare. And yes, the recurve bows that Gengis Khan's area used would be my suggestion for a model to follow. That was about as good as small bows went.

My google-fu has shown me that those were reflex bows, not recurve bows. The difference between the two was that recurve were shaped so that the the string rested against part of the limbs when not drawn and the tips of them curled away from the archer. This caused the bow to change shape when drawn and confer a mechanical advantage to the arrow.

Reflex bows are shaped kind of the same but, but the real difference shows up when they are unstrung. Recurve bows turn into almost straight lines with curved tips, whereas reflex bows look like a capital C that you have to turn inside out to string. the advantage here is that it provided more energy because the arms were under much more tension. In fact they were under so much tension that if they were made from wood or other lighter materials, they would shatter. They were usually made of horn or some other composite material.

[Eldest]

My google-fu has shown me that those were reflex bows, not recurve bows. The difference between the two was that recurve were shaped so that the the string rested against part of the limbs when not drawn and the tips of them curled away from the archer. This caused the bow to change shape when drawn and confer a mechanical advantage to the arrow.

Reflex bows are shaped kind of the same but, but the real difference shows up when they are unstrung. Recurve bows turn into almost straight lines with curved tips, whereas reflex bows look like a capital C that you have to turn inside out to string. the advantage here is that it provided more energy because the arms were under much more tension. In fact they were under so much tension that if they were made from wood or other lighter materials, they would shatter. They were usually made of horn or some other composite material.

Whoops, wrong name for it. But yes, they were made of layers of horn and a type of very bendy wood that they had on the steppe.

[Vixsor Lumin]

Whoops, wrong name for it. But yes, they were made of layers of horn and a type of very bendy wood that they had on the steppe.

Gotcha haha :p Jack is gonna have issues drawing the darn thing haha I was looking at the old laws for these and it turns out recurve bows were for the upper crust and reflex bows were generally used for the military. They weren't "miltary only" but most civilians didn't need a bow that powerful. So I'm thinking a collapsable silenced reflex would definitley fall under flat out illegal, but does maybe making it non collapsible make it military only? I wouldn't mind carrying around a flat out illegal thing but a guile check would probably be easier if it was lower on the legality scale.

Of course depending on the next mission we might not walk straight in. I'm thinking we avoid people from now on. We sneak past them instead of lying our way around, if my team is ok with that.

[SamBurke]

In other news, compound bows are freakishly hard to make.

Just hope you know that. I can't make one (it takes a year or more to make a good one), but it's buyable.

[Vixsor Lumin]

It takes a year of in game time to? Hmm do you think I could requisition one from the quartermaster?

[Kensen]

I can almost hear the QM saying: "Jack, you want me to get you a bow from the steppes..? Why Jack, why?"

Anyway, a traditional composite bow cannot be made collapsible. The horn, wood and sinew is all glued together and it takes a lot of time for it to dry. Otherwise it would break when drawn, with very dangerous results. Modern materials are more durable and I believe the draw weights are much smaller, so it's possible to make collapsible bows. (I'm still no bow expert, but this is how I understand things work. )

Moreover, a bow used in the dry steppes is incompatible with the climate of most parts of the Aurelian continent, and therefore such a bow would not last very long.

A recurve or reflex bow is smaller than a longbow, but still big enough to go to the "large" category.

I don't know if it is possible to make a collapsible wooden bow durable enough to withstand a draw with enough poundage to reliably kill a human, but I'll allow it. When the limbs are removed, it's a medium-sized object, i.e. small enough to carry in a backpack (without penalties) or on your belt (with minor penalties). It takes about one minute to attach the limbs and string it. The difficulty of making such a bow pushes it into the rare category, and its legality rating is "requires licence but may be considered illegal by some authorities" because officially, no such bows exist.

[SamBurke]

What's the TN to make it?

[Kensen]

No need to make any checks, really. The rules don't really cover anything that happens during the downtime between missions, and Gadgetry is mainly intended for opening locks, disabling traps, sabotaging mechanisms, and for minor repairs and some McGyvering. But we can RP it so that Aly crafted the bow, if you wish. Normally it's the QM who gets you all the equipment you need, but that's just flavor, not part of the game mechanics.

For balance reasons, the limit of one rare item per person still applies even though you have a crafter in the group. However, as a special reward for completing missions, you may earn rare items that you get to keep.

[Vixsor Lumin]

Ok that seems fair I kind of want to RP the downtime at headquarters (talk to the QM, interrogate the captain, etc) What about the silencing factor? I don't think an unmodified reflex bow would be as silent as id like. Would adding some kind of padding to the arm work? If the "collapsable" component is that the limbs are removed, then it shouldn't add to the TN too much.

Also, does anyone else want anything? I feel like I hijacked the thread

EDIT: oops no TN haha so would that push the rarity and legality any farther?

[Kensen]

Ok that seems fair I kind of want to RP the downtime at headquarters (talk to the QM, interrogate the captain, etc) What about the silencing factor? I don't think an unmodified reflex bow would be as silent as id like. Would adding some kind of padding to the arm work? If the "collapsable" component is that the limbs are removed, then it shouldn't add to the TN too much.

Also, does anyone else want anything? I feel like I hijacked the thread

No need to worry about the silencing factor. Assume that some kind of padding is added.

RPing the downtime is fine - I just meant the are and there will be on rules for things like crafting because that's not what the game is about.

[SamBurke]

I'm cool... personally I'm thinking about going with an auto-crossbow and working from there.

And yes, there are such things...

[Eldest]

Repeating crossbow. Chinese invention, although it had poor draw strength because you would have to pull it back multiple times in seconds.

[SamBurke]

Repeating crossbow. Chinese invention, although it had poor draw strength because you would have to pull it back multiple times in seconds.

I was actually thinking of scaling down the polybolos, as it was completely automatic, as long as there was tension in the chain.

[Eldest]

*blink*
I actually don't know what that is...
MUST KNOW!
*googles*

[SamBurke]

*blink*
I actually don't know what that is...
MUST KNOW!
*googles*

GASP! I have won the war of the nerds! Your Google-fu is no match for my intrinsic knowledge of random military weapons from ancient civilizations! The world will bow...

OK, I'm done.

[Vixsor Lumin]

*blink*
I actually don't know what that is...
MUST KNOW!
*googles*

My thoughts exactly, haha but as for the polybolo, how does the firing mechanism work? It looks like you just keep cranking on it and it keeps firing right?


P.S. melee needs nice things to, any ideas?

[SamBurke]

My thoughts exactly, haha but as for the polybolo, how does the firing mechanism work? It looks like you just keep cranking on it and it keeps firing right?


P.S. melee needs nice things to, any ideas?

That's the best part: the trigger is activated by the rotating chain.

As long as there's torsion (either from a crank or other source), it fires full-auto... admittedly the RPM is low, but, still..

[Vixsor Lumin]

How would rapid fire correlate in game? More attacks per round? And extra action so you can move and attack twice? With the penalty for multiple attacks I think the second one sounds more effective.

[Kensen]

If I understand correctly, the polybolos is mounted on a stand which makes it easier to aim even if you crank the windlass at the same time. A crossbow, on the other hand, requires two hands to aim and fire. A portable polybolos would therefore be very difficult to use because you'd need two hands to keep it steady and a third hand to operate the windlass, not to mention that the added auto-reload mechanism would make it heavier and also clumsier to use if the stock is resting against your shoulder when you operate the windlass.

But as always, I'm willing to work with you to create a new weapon that's reasonably realistic and balanced.

[SamBurke]

If I understand correctly, the polybolos is mounted on a stand which makes it easier to aim even if you crank the windlass at the same time. A crossbow, on the other hand, requires two hands to aim and fire. A portable polybolos would therefore be very difficult to use because you'd need two hands to keep it steady and a third hand to operate the windlass, not to mention that the added auto-reload mechanism would make it heavier and also clumsier to use if the stock is resting against your shoulder when you operate the windlass.

But as always, I'm willing to work with you to create a new weapon that's reasonably realistic and balanced.

Here's my thought: I'd pretty much auto-fail all mobility checks, moving at one square per round. I'd also be unable to hold much else. AND I'd either need an external winding method (tension from twisted bowstrings might work...) or someone else holding it... Perhaps a small stake/stand that I could plant, allowing me to balance it on one hand, while turning with the other?

Hrm... I'd probably also be very visible.... This could be bad.

[Eldest]

I should probably think of something to upgrade my person with.

[Snowfire]

Here's my thought: I'd pretty much auto-fail all mobility checks, moving at one square per round. I'd also be unable to hold much else. AND I'd either need an external winding method (tension from twisted bowstrings might work...) or someone else holding it... Perhaps a small stake/stand that I could plant, allowing me to balance it on one hand, while turning with the other?

Hrm... I'd probably also be very visible.... This could be bad.

Or set one up so that you can load it, wind it up with a set amount of tension, and then rig it to a tripwire or remote firing mechanism. You now have a Gatling crossbow turret - well ok, not quite, but close.

These are wonderful ambush weapons. For a portable version however...hmmm. Gimme some time, I think I have an idea that might just work. It depends on the level of clockpunk we can get, but...

[Eldest]

I have a sword (I stole the Captains, I'll need to know the stats for it before we start the next playtest), a big knife, and a little knife. My mobility and stealth is good. So the only spot I need to get better in is gadgetry.
I have two ideas for a custom item: a hidden blade (yes, I've been playing assassin's creed recently, why do you ask?) or a small toolkit that would give a bonus.
Any ideas for those?
Also, would I be able to have a magic item instead of the above? I'm thinking of a cloak that jumps me (or anyone else wearing it, really) from shadow to shadow within LoS or within a fixed distance, either/or.

[Laura Eternata]

*ahem* I stole it from the Captain and gave it to you.

Do hand crossbows exist in the game? Something less conspicuous than my longbow could come in handy.

[Vixsor Lumin]

Also, would I be able to have a magic item instead of the above? I'm thinking of a cloak that jumps me (or anyone else wearing it, really) from shadow to shadow within LoS or within a fixed distance, either/or.

This is a cool idea, I've actually been working on a story where that is one of the antagonists abilities. If this comes up id gladly sell Jacks soul to the 9th level of the underworld for it doubt it would get approved though and I'm thinking if any of our characters run into a mage or magic wielding soldier our only safe response will be run like children haha

[Eldest]

Or shoot him/her from very, very far away before they know we're coming. Or poison them. Or kill them in their sleep.
It all just depends on your creativeness.
And yes, you stole the sword and gave it to me. Thanks (belatedly).

Another idea, because I seem to have problems picking locks:
Custom Item: Thieves' Tools
Size: Small
Legality: Illegal
Bonuses: +3 on picking locks, +1 on all other gagetry.

Base item was the small tool kit, changes were adding the bonuses and making it illegal.

[Vixsor Lumin]

Or shoot him/her from very, very far away before they know we're coming. Or poison them. Or kill them in their sleep.

i stand corrected. let me rephrase that: if a mage/magic user/scary thing attacked Jack without him expecting it he would (provided he wasnt abondoning his team) run away and try to fight another day.

[Eldest]

i stand corrected. let me rephrase that: if a mage/magic user/scary thing attacked Jack without him expecting it he would (provided he wasnt abondoning his team) run away and try to fight another day.

I know that if we are working together next playtest and we met a mage, I would be right behind you.

[Cieyrin]

I know that if we are working together next playtest and we met a mage, I would be right behind you.

I was under the impression Rogue was No-Magic or at the least Low Magic...

[Eldest]

I was under the impression Rogue was No-Magic or at the least Low Magic...

There is virtually none and what little there is isn't understood very well. As such, anybody that's on the other side and knows enough magic to call himself a mage is scary in my book.