Metal Thread VI: We're So Kvlt, We Have Frostbite On Our Devil Horn Fingers

[ex cathedra]

I love Acid Bath, but Kylesa's in a league of their own...

Also, I prefer Dax Rigg's post-Acid Bath stuff. How can you touch this? You can't touch this.

Well, there's this and this and this and this.

[eyeofsaulot]

It exists, you know. *points at Def Leppard*

Indeed. Word of the wise: don't succumb to road rage if you enjoy the use of your limbs.

[Faulty]

Well, there's this and this and this and this.

You guys are confused. As far as things being amazing, I think you guys are confusing stuff that isn't Acid Bath with Acid Bath.

[Moff Chumley]

I am fully aware of which one's Acid Bath, and which one I prefer.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

I am not much of a heavy metal fan, but seriously, King Diamond's Abigail is amazing. Really amazing.

YES. It is incredible, although I really prefer Mercyful Fate to King Diamond's solo project. Still, listening to Abigail is quite an experience, and it's one of the King's finest works.

[Faulty]

YES. It is incredible, although I really prefer Mercyful Fate to King Diamond's solo project. Still, listening to Abigail is quite an experience, and it's one of the King's finest works.

You're the second person to say MF > KD. I've only heard Melissa. Is Don't Break the Oath the tie breaker or something?

[Triscuitable]

Just went back into some old Metallica history, and found something interesting. Despite being credited to Kirk and James, Metal Militia was actually written by Dave, before he was kicked out of the band.

Man, they really didn't like his name.

Also, who's heard The Four Horsemen, or The Mechanix? Don't worry, if you've heard one, you've heard the other. Seriously.

[Nameless]

Just found some seriously awesome Atmospheric Black Metal. Like... Seriously awesome.

[Faulty]

Just found some seriously awesome Atmospheric Black Metal. Like... Seriously awesome.

I listened to them long ago and wasn't too fond, but I've heard that their best is Dol Guldur. Interestingly, I read an interview with them in Metal Maniacs in '07 or '08, and they described themselves as composers, not musicians, and that they enjoyed composing and completing music, but hated playing the instruments themselves.

[Nameless]

I listened to them long ago and wasn't too fond, but I've heard that their best is Dol Guldur. Interestingly, I read an interview with them in Metal Maniacs in '07 or '08, and they described themselves as composers, not musicians, and that they enjoyed composing and completing music, but hated playing the instruments themselves.

That's interesting, because apparently the members have been in bands before Summoning as well. Time for a new career path, maybe?

[Faulty]

That's interesting, because apparently the members have been in bands before Summoning as well. Time for a new career path, maybe?

They're in a lot of electro based projects (martial industrial, dawkave, etc), which is really more a compositional rather than musicianal domain of music. I think it's why Summoning is so synth focused. They're more interested in exploring a sort of compositionally focused neoclassical/black metal hybrid than black metal which is more focused on its rock roots and creates its atmosphere via traditional instrument use.

[eyeofsaulot]

I listened to them long ago and wasn't too fond, but I've heard that their best is Dol Guldur. Interestingly, I read an interview with them in Metal Maniacs in '07 or '08, and they described themselves as composers, not musicians, and that they enjoyed composing and completing music, but hated playing the instruments themselves.

If you were gonna like any Summoning album, I imagine it would most likely be their debut album Lugburz. It's much more guitar-oriented and raw than any of their other releases.

[Faulty]

If you were gonna like any Summoning album, I imagine it would most likely be their debut album Lugburz. It's much more guitar-oriented and raw than any of their other releases.

It's also kind of meh. No wonder they switched to synths.

Also, I feel the sudden need to reaffirm my hatred for gimmick bands like Van Canto and Alestorm.

[Nameless]

They're in a lot of electro based projects (martial industrial, dawkave, etc), which is really more a compositional rather than musicianal domain of music. I think it's why Summoning is so synth focused. They're more interested in exploring a sort of compositionally focused neoclassical/black metal hybrid than black metal which is more focused on its rock roots and creates its atmosphere via traditional instrument use.

Well, according to their bio, Protector was in a Death Metal band before Summoning and studied drums in music school for four years. Silenius was in a Doom Metal band and studied piano.
Oh well, all artists are hypocritical in one way or another. :3

It's also kind of meh. No wonder they switched to synths.

Also, I feel the sudden need to reaffirm my hatred for gimmick bands like Van Canto and Alestorm.

Eh, by that definition, pretty much much any band that uses anything outside of guitars, bass, keys and drums or has a strong image/theme could be considered a gimmick band, no?

[cleric_of_BANJO]

You're the second person to say MF > KD. I've only heard Melissa. Is Don't Break the Oath the tie breaker or something?

I would actually say that Melissa is the tie breaker, since it's one of the greatest metal albums ever. Don't Break the Oath is great, but I don't think it's as good as Melissa. Also, you have to consider historical importance and influence. Melissa influenced everybody, from Metallica to early black metal bands. I hear riffs that sound like they're ripped off from Melissa almost as much as from Venom's first two albums, and that's saying a lot. Abigail, on the other hand, had a much smaller impact on metal history. It's a good album, and fun to listen to, but it doesn't have the same feeling of originality that Mercyful Fate's first two albums had. Not saying that's the only reason I think MF is better, but it definitely plays a part.

[Moff Chumley]

Also, I feel the sudden need to reaffirm my hatred for gimmick bands like Van Canto and Alestorm.

I consider Liturgy a gimmick band.

Their gimmick is annoying me.

[Triscuitable]

I consider Liturgy a gimmick band.

Their gimmick is annoying me.

Any band that puts out music in which the instruments sound like nothing more than white noise is alone the lines of pure, unedited crap. I won't list the bands, for the sake of not irritating anyone.

Oh yeah, and any of those guy-bands. Bowling For Soup, The All-American Rejects, Breaking Benjamin, what the hell is that stuff? They may not be metal, but that's barely alternative. I think Cage the Elephant is the only band that put out music that I enjoy along those lines. And even then;

ENGAGE HIPSTER MODE

I liked them before they were cool.

I still like St. Anger, and RISK, and Lulu. Anything that detracts from what a band is known for is an opportunity that shouldn't be missed. And fans take that for granted.

[ex cathedra]

Being unique doesn't make something inherently better or worse, it just makes it different.

Additionally, none of those bands have absolutely anything to do with this thread or even each other. I don't follow your point. As far as I recall, Bowling for Soup was some pop-punk band and AAR was a semi-popular mid-2000's pop-rock/alt-rock band. Neither of them are particularly similar to Cage the Elephant, and all of those other albums you named probably suck. Also, you can't be a hipster unless you liked that band ironically, because they aren't particularly worthwhile.

Also I don't know exactly what you meant by that "white noise" comment but I'm pretty sure that if you're talking about fantastic fuzzy guitar textures of any sort we have a serious problem.

[Triscuitable]

Being unique doesn't make something inherently better or worse, it just makes it different.

Additionally, none of those bands have absolutely anything to do with this thread or even each other. I don't follow your point. As far as I recall, Bowling for Soup was some pop-punk band and AAR was a semi-popular mid-2000's pop-rock/alt-rock band. Neither of them are particularly similar to Cage the Elephant, and all of those other albums you named probably suck. Also, you can't be a hipster unless you liked that band ironically, because they aren't particularly worthwhile.

And thus paragraph structure falls apart.

Bowling for Soup, Breaking Benjamin, and TAAR are all bands that follow an alternative-rock feel. I mentioned them because they all have the same gimmick, lamenting about teenage lifestyles, and putting out stupidly popular songs 12 year olds use in YouTube montages. Cage the Elephant subverts that with bizarre subjects for alternative music.

Also I don't know exactly what you meant by that "white noise" comment but I'm pretty sure that if you're talking about fantastic fuzzy guitar textures of any sort we have a serious problem.

There's a NAME for that kind of noise? That's NOT a guitar! That SunO-parentheses band made a cover of For Whom the Bell Tolls. I dropped the hammer when I realized that was a cover of one of my favorite songs of all time. I'm glad they didn't cover Jump in the Fire.

And I'm sorry if it's a serious problem, but I really don't like that stuff. It doesn't appeal to me. You know what's a serious problem? Fans hating on St. Anger, Risk, and Lulu. I understand fan's dislike for Lulu. Those are Metallica fans hating on an album meant for Lou Reed fans. Lou Reed is a legend. Maybe not to any of you guys, but to me, he's one of my music-Heroes, up there with Cliff Burton and Dave Mustaine.

Spoiler

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[Triscuitable]

Oh dear god please don't remind me of that.

I'm just glad I imported it. From Japan. You know. The versions Megadeth releases that are always so much better than what we get.

In this case, Grabbag.

[Feytalist]

Just found some seriously awesome Atmospheric Black Metal. Like... Seriously awesome.

Summoning's members also form one of my favourite darkwave bands, Die Verbannten Kinder Evas. You can hear that influence in their work. I think that's probably why I like it so much, similar to Tharen's Armestigon (and Abigor, actually).

[ex cathedra]

There's a NAME for that kind of noise? That's NOT a guitar! That SunO-parentheses band made a cover of For Whom the Bell Tolls. I dropped the hammer when I realized that was a cover of one of my favorite songs of all time. I'm glad they didn't cover Jump in the Fire.

Sunn O))) is phenomenal, I think, and I place absolutely no value on bands like Metallica, Megadeath, or Judas Priest. I seriously don't think that they contributed anything of value to the genre.

And oh my god fuzz. Amps everywhere. The air in your lungs vibrating. All of those loud and fuzzy and noisy and occasionally lo-fi genres. So good.

And I'm sorry if it's a serious problem, but I really don't like that stuff. It doesn't appeal to me. You know what's a serious problem? Fans hating on St. Anger, Risk, and Lulu. I understand fan's dislike for Lulu. Those are Metallica fans hating on an album meant for Lou Reed fans. Lou Reed is a legend. Maybe not to any of you guys, but to me, he's one of my music-Heroes, up there with Cliff Burton and Dave Mustaine.

No problem. I don't really buy into that whole 'musical heroes' thing, though. Some people occasionally make okay music but there aren't a lot of them and I don't really think that they have much to do with their music after the fact. Similarly, I don't really take context into account when thinking about music. I like taking things exactly as they're presented and judge the music based on its own merits in comparison to my tastes.

[Triscuitable]

Sunn O))) is phenomenal, I think, and I place absolutely no value on bands like Metallica, Megadeath, or Judas Priest. I seriously don't think that they contributed anything of value to the genre.

I hope you realize that two of those bands you just bashed invented one of the most popular genres of Metal. Sun O))) tried something new. I applaud them. They have a dedicated fanbase.

I draw the line when they take a great song and turn it into noise.

No problem. I don't really buy into that whole 'musical heroes' thing, though. Some people occasionally make okay music but there aren't a lot of them and I don't really think that they have much to do with their music after the fact. Similarly, I don't really take context into account when thinking about music. I like taking things exactly as they're presented and judge the music based on its own merits in comparison to my tastes.

They're heroes of mine because listening to their music pressured me into learning to play the music they made. Dave Mustaine is an example of how you can seriously ******** up your life, and pull it back together anyways. Cliff Burton lost his brother, and wanted to prove he could be the best bassist he could be. Lou Reed made music that was so influential, he was given the title "The King of New York".

It doesn't matter if it's a hero to your, or just someone you look up to. They're idols to me. I adore them, and I show my support to them. If I ever visit Sweden, Burton's grave is my first stop.

[ex cathedra]

I hope you realize that two of those bands you just bashed invented one of the most popular genres of Metal.

Yeah, but I've never seen anything worthwhile come out of those genres so it's not much different to me.

Additionally, influences don't really matter to me, either. If a band influenced another band, good for them, but it doesn't make the influential band's music any better (or even different). I mean, if you liked thrash metal, and I liked you, nothing there actually implies that I should like thrash metal.

[Feytalist]

Rob Halford of Judas Priest pioneered the metal scream. Surely that's somewhat noteworthy.

[Killer Angel]

'bout Summoning:

I listened to them long ago and wasn't too fond, but I've heard that their best is Dol Guldur.

I've heard that too, but my fav. one remains Minas Morgul.

[Triscuitable]

Rob Halford of Judas Priest pioneered the metal scream. Surely that's somewhat noteworthy.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that.

Besides, *cough* *cough*

Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax. They're notable because they are the Big Four. They all had the same idea in the short span of a few years. They all took it to the stage, to the vinyl, the cassette, the CD, it doesn't matter. They made the music, and it became HUGE. Everyone knows who Metallica is. It doesn't matter if they like them or not, hate them or love them, you cannot honestly say you made it to ten without hearing a song, a mention, or their name. And that actually goes for all four bands. And to this day, they're all still in business, almost 30 years later. They still go multi-platinum with every album, still have hundreds of millions of fans, and keep innovating.

If they hadn't kept innovating, they would have fallen apart as a band. Every band falls apart, not always because of internal feuds, but because of boredom. You stick to the same thing, and you get bored. I consider the jump from Rust in Peace to Countdown to Extinction to be drastic, just as ...And Justice for All to the Black Album was.

[Feytalist]

AHAHAHA

Einherjer released a new album last year. I didn't know this. Why didn't I know this? After only 8 years of silence? I honestly thought they were disbanded.

Damn I hope it's good.

[Faulty]

Eh, by that definition, pretty much much any band that uses anything outside of guitars, bass, keys and drums or has a strong image/theme could be considered a gimmick band, no?

A gimmick band is more like a band that is novel, y'know? Like, hey, check it out, these guys do A CAPELLA takes on power metal. On the other hand, The Axis of Perdition infuse dark ambient and harsh industrial sound into a lot of their music, with themes influenced by the Silent Hill games, but they are musically and conceptually very strong.

I would actually say that Melissa is the tie breaker, since it's one of the greatest metal albums ever.

I think I will need to listen to Melissa some more then. I've listened to Abigail more times than the former, that might have something to do with it. Though, all else aside, I do absolutely love the way that KD pronounces "coven". It sounds like he wants me to drop by his cabin and become Lucifer's child.

I consider Liturgy a gimmick band.

Their gimmick is annoying me.

I want to hit Hunter-Hunt Hendrix in his dumb face, but I do quite like Renihilation. It plays with black metal in this really fascinating way, that has this circular feel to it, as if the structure has this amorphous form. Plus, for some reason the music sounds "bright" to me which is very interesting. I haven't given Aesthetica a full listen, so I can't say anything about it. The whole "transcendental black metal" thing though... yeah... yuck.

Any band that puts out music in which the instruments sound like nothing more than white noise is alone the lines of pure, unedited crap. I won't list the bands, for the sake of not irritating anyone.

I dunno why you think Liturgy sounds like white noise. Their music is very discernable. Anyway, noise music or related is essentially avant-garde, so the purpose of the whole thing is basically to complicate the generally held notions of music. Honestly, one of the reasons I love black metal so much is that it managed to question common precepts regarding music in a rock context, which is very interesting, because it was previously the domain largely of classical, jazz and industrial, for the most part.

There's a NAME for that kind of noise? That's NOT a guitar! That SunO-parentheses band made a cover of For Whom the Bell Tolls. I dropped the hammer when I realized that was a cover of one of my favorite songs of all time. I'm glad they didn't cover Jump in the Fire.

I suggest you never listen to Gnaw Their Tongues. :P

*cough*

I seriously don't get the hullabaloo about MoP. I think Metallica's best album (at least of what I've heard, i.e. the first three or four) is Kill 'Em All.

[Nameless]

Summoning's members also form one of my favourite darkwave bands, Die Verbannten Kinder Evas. You can hear that influence in their work. I think that's probably why I like it so much, similar to Tharen's Armestigon (and Abigor, actually).

This. I will have to check this out. The day I find a Darkwave band more awesome then London After Midnight is ice cream on waffles.

A gimmick band is more like a band that is novel, y'know? Like, hey, check it out, these guys do A CAPELLA takes on power metal. On the other hand, The Axis of Perdition infuse dark ambient and harsh industrial sound into a lot of their music, with themes influenced by the Silent Hill games, but they are musically and conceptually very strong.

I'm... not following you there, sorry.
Unless you're talking about bands that do something musically or aesthetically different/strong and are tongue-in-cheek. In which case, I still disagree.