Goblins VIII: This Thread Contains An Unexpected Variable

[t209]

Let's move on to

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The healing water! IS there any of it in D&D? I'm believing that they will have to end the cycle of death. I have to remind you that they are in a race which they will have dejavu if all of them die and failed.

[Imgran]

I dont recall reading much dwarven hate for trees before oots. Most dwarves I read about just state a preference for caves. Not a hatred for greenery taller than they are.

You don't remember Gimli's fear of Fangorn Forest?

At least in the book, he moved into that forest only VERY reluctantly.

[Marnath]

You don't remember Gimli's fear of Fangorn Forest?

At least in the book, he moved into that forest only VERY reluctantly.

I thought that was because it was haunted?

[Claudius Maximus]

For anyone who cares, it looks like Thunt is using this instead of the official Extra Rage, because he thinks +2 rages for one feat is overpowered.

I disagree, but it looks like there's at least an explanation for the discrepancy.

[Imgran]

I thought that was because it was haunted?

A bit, but it was also a thing later in the series.

Gimli didn't like forests, but loved caves

Legolas loved forests, but hated caves

When they struck up a friendship, they sort of made an exchange in an effort to beat their fears. Gimli would take Legolas to see the mineral beauty of certain cave formations they discovered during their adventure, and Legolas would, with Treebeard's permission this time, explore the old wood with Gimli.

[~j~]

I was thinking the same thing:

They rode in silence for a while; but Legolas was ever glancing from side to side, and would often have halted to listen to the sounds of the wood, if Gimli had allowed it.

"These are the strangest trees that ever I saw," he said; "and I have seen many an oak grow from acorn to ruinous age. I wish that there was leisure now to walk among them: they have voices, and in time I might come to understand their thought."

"No, no!" said Gimli. "Let us leave them! I guess their thoughts already: hatred of all that go on two legs; and their speech is of crushing and strangling."

"Not of all that go on two legs," said Legolas. "There I think you are wrong. It is Orcs that they hate. For they do not belong here and know little of Elves and Men. Far away are the valleys where they sprang. From the deep dales of Fangorn, Gimli, that is whence they come, I guess."

"Then that is the most perilous wood in Middle-earth," said Gimli. "I should be grateful for the part they have played, but I do not love them. You may think them wonderful, but I have seen a greater wonder in this land, more beautiful than any grove or glade that ever grew: my heart is full of it..."

Here is a link to the rest of that section: http://www.iment.com/maida/tv/lordof...olasquotes.htm (about two thirds down the page)

[Traab]

A bit, but it was also a thing later in the series.

Gimli didn't like forests, but loved caves

Legolas loved forests, but hated caves

When they struck up a friendship, they sort of made an exchange in an effort to beat their fears. Gimli would take Legolas to see the mineral beauty of certain cave formations they discovered during their adventure, and Legolas would, with Treebeard's permission this time, explore the old wood with Gimli.

But thats the thing, he hated the forest of lothlorien, not because of the trees, but because of the "evil sorceress" or whatever description he used to describe galadriel. He didnt want to go into fangorn, not because "TREES AAAAGGH!" but because he had heard all sorts of horrible rumors of what goes on in there. (Turns out he was right) He didnt like forests, but he wasnt afraid of them.

[t209]

Now that explains the Durkon's (and OOTS) dwarves fear of trees).
I though OOTS is the only comic to show Tree fearing dwarves. But many games show Dwarves harvesting trees (Dwarf Fortress).

[The Glyphstone]

Level in Barbarian, totally called it.

[Anteros]

I think it stems more from the rivalry between elves and dwarves in fiction than anything. Elves are hippy tree huggers. Thus dwarves must dislike trees.

For anyone who cares, it looks like Thunt is using this instead of the official Extra Rage, because he thinks +2 rages for one feat is overpowered.

I disagree, but it looks like there's at least an explanation for the discrepancy.

Not really in character for MinMax to take a sub-optimized feat instead of a better one just because the other one is overpowered though...

[Qwertystop]

What do you want to bet that the water isn't just healing. Maybe it's immortality for reptiles only, and since Kin is half-snake, she gets just healing. Maybe it has random effects, and she got lucky. Maybe it relates somehow to the nature of the Maze. Whatever happens, I bet Minmax is not going to come out of it well.

[The Glyphstone]

I think it stems more from the rivalry between elves and dwarves in fiction than anything. Elves are hippy tree huggers. Thus dwarves must dislike trees.




Not really in character for MinMax to take a sub-optimized feat instead of a better one just because the other one is overpowered though...

No, he's saying that in Thunt's world, there is no Extra Rage +2 Rages feat, because Thunt believes it to be overpowered. Minmax took the best feat he had access to.

[Marnath]

No, he's saying that in Thunt's world, there is no Extra Rage +2 Rages feat, because Thunt believes it to be overpowered. Minmax took the best feat he had access to.

It really would be overpowered for that world. You have to be an 8th level barbarian to get 3/day normally. In a world where a monk is as effective as the designers thought it would be and in which a ranger who can cast a spell is "high level" that's quite a benefit.

[Anteros]

No, he's saying that in Thunt's world, there is no Extra Rage +2 Rages feat, because Thunt believes it to be overpowered. Minmax took the best feat he had access to.

But trading your ability to wink for improved unarmed strike makes perfect sense and isn't overpowered at all.

I get the point he's trying to make, it's just a very silly point when you take it in context with the rest of the comic.

[VariaVespasa]

What do you want to bet that the water isn't just healing. Whatever happens, I bet Minmax is not going to come out of it well.

I'm betting on a River of Wonder variant, myself.

[The Glyphstone]

But trading your ability to wink for improved unarmed strike makes perfect sense and isn't overpowered at all.

I get the point he's trying to make, it's just a very silly point when you take it in context with the rest of the comic.

If you look at it right, it's not very silly at all. Most of the things Minmax has traded for aren't overpowered in the slightest - Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Proficiency: Furniture, +1 to hit...they are essentially something for nothing, which is overpowered from a certain perspective, but he's not actually getting much for his unbalanced trades objectively.

It fits his minmaxing munchkin personality, too, in that he's cheesing trade-offs like that for what ultimately amounts to negligible gain.

[Anteros]

If you look at it right, it's not very silly at all. Most of the things Minmax has traded for aren't overpowered in the slightest - Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Proficiency: Furniture, +1 to hit...they are essentially something for nothing, which is overpowered from a certain perspective, but he's not actually getting much for his unbalanced trades objectively.

It fits his minmaxing munchkin personality, too, in that he's cheesing trade-offs like that for what ultimately amounts to negligible gain.

None of it is that powerful in the grand scheme of things, but that's all pretty powerful for a first level character. Who knows what kind of wacky hijinks a higher level Minmax would get into.

[random11]

But thats the thing, he hated the forest of lothlorien, not because of the trees, but because of the "evil sorceress" or whatever description he used to describe galadriel. He didnt want to go into fangorn, not because "TREES AAAAGGH!" but because he had heard all sorts of horrible rumors of what goes on in there. (Turns out he was right) He didnt like forests, but he wasnt afraid of them.

Doesn't seem like Forgath reacted with fear.
It was just a minor comment, and a totally acceptable one after he just fell from a magical forest that could have kill him.

BTW, isn't it weird that references from OoTS are worthy of mentioning, but references from Tolkein are taken for granted and considered to be "a real definition" of fantasy things?

[Feytalist]

Fourth panel Forgath looks totally awesome.

Also, third level now. Second level spells. Could be interesting.

[Strawberries]

BTW, isn't it weird that references from OoTS are worthy of mentioning, but references from Tolkein are taken for granted and considered to be "a real definition" of fantasy things?

Nope. Tolkien's work is way more archetypical...if for no other reason that it was there first.

Speaking of OOTS, Minmax made me think of Thog: third level fighter is dumb level. Thog didn't take.

Also also, I had a bit of free time and a need to do something mindless between yesterday and this morning, so, if anyone wants them, OOTS-fied MM, Forgath and Kin avatars:

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{table]

Minmax

|

Forgath

|

Kin

||[/table]

[Feytalist]

Also also, I had a bit of free time and a need to do something mindless between yesterday and this morning, so, if anyone wants them, OOTS-fied MM, Forgath and Kin avatars:

Those are seriously kind of awesome.

[Radar]

I'm betting on a River of Wonder variant, myself.

That could be nasty.

Frankly, my first reaction for the healing water was a sense of imminent danger. If this dungeon tought me anything, it's that everything has a purpose and it's to screw you over.

[VariaVespasa]

That could be nasty.

Have you looked at this dungeon so far?? :P

Well of course you have, given your second sentence, but I couldnt resist. But the dungeon does have its good points too, like the sword and armor and, presumably, the jade teapot, so a healing river isnt wildly unreasonable. A bit of sweet with the bitter, an' all that. Especially given that since only one group gets out alive (per run) it isnt really all that sweet in any case.

[Giggling Ghast]

Maybe this is a simple case of suspicious dungeon master generosity.

[Radar]

Maybe this is a simple case of suspicious dungeon master generosity.

I was more thinking in line of an enemy taking full advantage of the healing river, while spewing poison or other conditions not treated by the liquid.

[Marnath]

Those are seriously kind of awesome.

I agree, they're really good. I thought about asking for Min-Max but really I don't think I'll ever get tired of Tabard. Bonus points if any of you even know who that is.

[zimmerwald1915]

Maybe this is a simple case of suspicious dungeon master generosity.

You monster.

[Giggling Ghast]

You monster.

Do you mean "You Monster"?

[Draconi Redfir]

New filler is up :P

[Surfing HalfOrc]

New filler is up :P

Could have been worse.

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Could have been MinMax in a cocktail dress...