LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen

[golentan]

I know I wouldn't mind doing some pillow biting now and again.

[Astrella]

Oddly, and more on topic(?), I've only ever heard pillowbiter as a term for women who prefer submissive positioning. The implications were that they were loose, easy, and prone to 'exaggerated endings' when used as an insult... I think I have only ever once heard it used to refer to gay men, and I just didn't get it.*

That's what I first figured.

Biting a pillow out of pain doesn't seem like the most desirable thing in (most) cases.

Edit: The most common term I hear are "top" and "bottom". I'm not that much a fan of them, cause it seems to exclude a lot of fun sexytimes stuff people can do.

[Serpentine]

You've got some reading to do, then.

That's actually something I keep in mind with my tasteless jokes - whether anyone around will participate seriously. So, for example, I now avoid making racist jokes around one friend, because I know he actually is racist, and so is on a different level of joking.

That reminds me of this.

Ha!

Yeah. I never got why the humans were so down on it in those movies. "Oh, no. Humanity has all it's needs taken care of for the foreseeable future and free reign to act as they please without long term consequences in a VR world. And because we're aware of it, we get to have SUPER POWERS! This is terrible! We must destroy this system and drag billions of people from the lives they've made for themselves into a blasted hellscape of a world where they're physically weak, probably can't find their loved ones in the crowd, and where agriculture is basically impossible because we broke the sky in our attempt to commit genocide on the species that kept us around and about as happy as we were beforehand in spite of that."

Cracked had an article about that... I think it was something along the lines of "Movie villains who were actually pretty decent".

But I have never come across pillow biting as a pain response, it's always been reflexive, akin to toe curling

My mother says things like "toe-curlingly good" a lot. It's only in recent years I've understood the implications of it...

[Kindablue]

More about the Matrix!

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I agree. But there's a difference between disliking newspaper horoscopes because horoscopes are obvious trash, and disliking astrology because newspaper horoscopes are obvious trash. I equate it with disliking all of fiction because you have an aversion for, say, romance novels. The lack of doing the research and coming to a conclusion based on understanding is what bothers me I guess. Everything else - the pattern recognition, the duping folks - would be its own conversation. I find value in otherwise useless paradigms because they give you a lense through which to examine yourself.

Oh, but. Hm. Welp. I just had something click that may completely invalidate that stance, I'll have to give it some thought...

*steeples fingers* Yes... excellent.

But the Matrix is full of plot holes, so don't look to hard into the canon for answers.

Canon's kind of a hyperbolic word for one movie, don't you think?

But the robot Overlords, like, werent a problem at all. They were like the illuminati; if they did exist, then they functioned on a level so far removed that they may as well not exist, because they don't influence your life at all. The difference between a human life, and a human life in the matrix, is functionally zero until the Chosen One comes along to mess everything up.

Siddhartha continued: "A thought, it might be so. I must confess to you, my dear: I don't differentiate much between thoughts and words. To be honest, I also have no high opinion of thoughts. I have a better opinion of things. Here on this ferry-boat, for instance, a man has been my predecessor and teacher, a holy man, who has for many years simply believed in the river, nothing else. He had noticed that the river's spoke to him, he learned from it, it educated and taught him, the river seemed to be a god to him, for many years he did not know that every wind, every cloud, every bird, every beetle was just as divine and knows just as much and can teach just as much as the worshipped river. But when this holy man went into the forests, he knew everything, knew more than you and me, without teachers, without books, only because he had believed in the river."

Govinda said: "But is that what you call `things', actually something real, something which has existence? Isn't it just a deception of the Maja, just an image and illusion? Your stone, your tree, your river— are they actually a reality?"

"This too," spoke Siddhartha, "I do not care very much about. Let the things be illusions or not, after all I would then also be an illusion, and thus they are always like me. This is what makes them so dear and worthy of veneration for me: they are like me. Therefore, I can love them. And this is now a teaching you will laugh about: love, oh Govinda, seems to me to be the most important thing of all. To thoroughly understand the world, to explain it, to despise it, may be the thing great thinkers do. But I'm only interested in being able to love the world, not to despise it, not to hate it and me, to be able to look upon it and me and all beings with love and admiration and great respect."

[Arachu]

[Poe's Law]

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You've got some reading to do, then.

That's why we don't joke like that in public - it's easy to be overheard, but hard to tell everyone in the room that you're just joking.

I had to explain it to another of my cousins not too long ago, though (he got that we didn't mean it, but the parody itself is apparently harder to detect).

I'm particularly wary of Poe's Law - I've actually seen people trick themselves into chauvinism (usually sexist or racist) with their own jokes. :some mixture of facial expressions that captures my reaction:

I don't know. I think jokes like that are a lot funnier when not everyone's sure whether you're being serious or not. That works a lot better in Meatspace, though, so I tone it down on the Internet.

Not so much when they explode on you before you can explain yourself...

[Crying]

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I cry a lot, since I was about 16, which was the lowest point of my school career, what with the bullying and ostracism and such. My theory is I kind of broke my crying blocker at that point, because I was so unhappy and stuck with groups of people. Before that, I was able to not cry if I was in front of people, but now I've kind of lost that ability. Once you've cried a whole bunch in public for a couple of years, it's really hard to convince yourself that awful things will happen if you do so you better hold it in until you get home. (What does happen is the staring and awkward conversations with teachers. REALLY awkward, sometimes. But you get used to all that.) But yeah, by 18, teachers had started to yell at me for crying because I'd done it so much they assumed I was putting it on, but yelling at a distressed person ONLY MAKES THEM WORSE. And then they thought I was putting it on EVEN HARDER to get out of trouble. I hated school.

*Hugs* A lot of people in my school (and both of my parents, for that matter) would actually take on harsh tones sometimes out of the assumption that whoever they were talking to would try to cry. Sometimes they just laughed at those who did, other times they would talk less without backing off.

One of my favorite teachers got me with it once... Apparently, people in other classrooms heard me shout back.

I've always had a reputation for stoicism and self moderation, so I've been blessed with people really freaking out whenever I actually cry. Which is less of a blessing when I just wanna cry and be comforted, but boy does it defuse high-risk situations.

'Control' over crying only takes about ten years of self-repression, of you're really interested. You shouldn't be. It's terrible.

*Nods* Yeah, as bad as it is to break into tears when you don't want to, it's worse not to cry when you do want to. Come to think of it, it's pretty much always worse.

[Pillowbiting] (love that term )

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It's rather neutral as a phrase, isn't it? Flaming implies annoying flamboyance, the other that I don't wanna type because it leaves a sickly feeling on my mental tongue implies dominance through sodomy, but pillow biter just sounds like you're really, really enjoying yourself. It's only derogatory if you ... Hm. How to phrase it.

It's only derogatory of you assume that the receptive partner in a relationship is inferior due to the "male equals person, female equals object to be acted upon" mindset, *and that them havin to bite a pillow implies anything about the other partner - that pillowbiter isn't a comment on the receptive person at all, but instead comments on the... Agh! When using receptive to mean receiving, what's the opposite called? You'd think I'd be able to recall these things...
It's only derogatory if you feel it dehumanizes the person it's applied to by only using them to describe the one who is in the dominant Position.

Boy I hope that makes sense to someone, I'm not even sure it makes sense to me anymore >.<

I could see it implying some derogatory things. It would be a slur on the whole relationship, though I could see it backfiring pretty easily.

[Matrix]

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Yeah. I never got why the humans were so down on it in those movies. "Oh, no. Humanity has all it's needs taken care of for the foreseeable future and free reign to act as they please without long term consequences in a VR world. And because we're aware of it, we get to have SUPER POWERS! This is terrible! We must destroy this system and drag billions of people from the lives they've made for themselves into a blasted hellscape of a world where they're physically weak, probably can't find their loved ones in the crowd, and where agriculture is basically impossible because we broke the sky in our attempt to commit genocide on the species that kept us around and about as happy as we were beforehand in spite of that."

But their needs aren't taken care of. They're human batteries, being kept just barely alive (with minimum nutrients) and just miserable enough not to question whether or not they're dreaming. Their heads have oversized USB's sticking out of them, and they can't even learn anything that hasn't been pre-fabricated by what amounts to a hyper-intelligent insect hive whose only obligation to keep them even remotely happy is to keep them quiet.

The simulation's a lot better than the physical alternative, but they can actually change the latter. All they can do in the simulation is pretend to be pretending to be happy.

[Misc.]

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So my little brother and I were just talking about how there wouldn't be transsexuals in the Matrix, and he asked me how I would react to waking up in a female body. I said that the first thing I would probably do would be to sign on here and tell you all about it. It would certainly be interesting to see whether I would become a transman or a ciswoman.

If I woke up with a female body... Well, I don't know how I'd react. I'd do so... Confusingly...

It's too bad I can't lucid dream. That and a little autohypnotism may be able to simulate the situation. How does one think? *mutters indistinctly*

[Coidzor]

But I have never come across pillow biting as a pain response, it's always been reflexive, akin to toe curling

Huh. I've only ever heard of it in a context of knowing that something very painful was about to be done to one's self by one's lover. Or someone being told to bite the pillow by their lover, rather, because they were in for a world of improperly lubricated hurt.

[Poe's Law]

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That's why we don't joke like that in public - it's easy to be overheard, but hard to tell everyone in the room that you're just joking.

I had to explain it to another of my cousins not too long ago, though (he got that we didn't mean it, but the parody itself is apparently harder to detect).

I'm particularly wary of Poe's Law - I've actually seen people trick themselves into chauvinism (usually sexist or racist) with their own jokes. :some mixture of facial expressions that captures my reaction:

Not so much when they explode on you before you can explain yourself...

...Then why is it funny to you if you have to put that much care into it? Sounds like it just becomes a chore.

[Lady Serpentine]

[Misc.]

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If I woke up with a female body... Well, I don't know how I'd react. I'd do so... Confusingly...

It's too bad I can't lucid dream. That and a little autohypnotism may be able to simulate the situation. How does one think? *mutters indistinctly*

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Doubtful. I do lucid dreaming all the time (at least, I think I do... I can choose what to say, and rewind it and such...), and I'm fairly certain it would simply simulate what you though, consciously and non, waking up with a female body would be like. You'd need to have done so at least once for your brain to reproduce the experience, if that make any sense...

[MoelVermillion]

Today I have found myself in a very confused situation and I kind of just need to let it out because its kind of eating me up inside a bit. My understanding of all the complex terminology you regulars use is a little low so try to just bear with me for a bit with that.

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For a very long time I've not quite been the most manly guy around. Even dating back to my childhood I was very happy playing with dolls though I was just as happy to with the toy trucks and things my parents bought me too.

When I got a little older and puberty hit (much earlier than it did any other male in my classes) I was always pretty uncomfortable with things like my body hair or deepening voice. At the same time I began noticing how the girls were developing such nice features and bodies and began to want that too. I was a pretty dumb and optimistic kid and began just imagining it happening to me eventually and inventing contrived situations in my head where it would happen. I made a point of wishing and even praying it would happen and began to take an interest in women’s clothing style over men’s and the like. I also never quite understood “male culture”, I don’t know if it’s the right term but the mentality of all my male friends and how they acted when it was just “the boys” and how they’d talk and how they’d act in what they’d call “blokes time” was something I could never fit in with. I’d just feel awkward and uncomfortable and want nothing to do with it. Girl talk I was much better at and most of my closest friends who have known the most about me and I’ve felt that I’ve connected the best with throughout my whole lives have been females.

At a certain point throughout this time I had also managed to gain way too much weight and have anxieties over that. I managed to lose most of that excess weight and even put on a bit of noticeable muscle and I was quite proud of my progress and a little proud of my body. I then went on to meet other people who had a much greater interest in working out than me and apart from feeling a little inadequate I once again stumbled upon these guy’s so called ideas of masculinity and how I not only didn’t fit within them but also that I didn’t want to.

At a certain point after this I came to the obvious realization that I wasn’t just going to wake up as a girl one day and that’s when I began to actively dislike my male body. I stopped liking anything about it and what used to be minor annoyances relating to it suddenly upset me majorly, I began to feel trapped and upset by a body I found ugly and didn’t want. At the same time I was discovering more about different gender identities and that just because my experience may not have been identical to ones for transpeople I’d heard of, just because I had some nerdy “male” hobbies (mainly video games) and just because I even still had what one could call rather male speech patterns, that did not necessarily mean I could be of a different gender to my sex. I began researching it further and the blocks just fell into place and it seemed like I knew what I was.

After spending a while in the closet about this I decided to confide in a few people who were very supportive of me. I also began doing just small things to express myself in the gender I wanted to. I started going shopping with one of my female friends a lot at female clothes store, I would just window shop and she’d actually buy things (it was a little embarrassing but at the same time I enjoyed it a lot). I also started doing things like appearing in online games with a female name and my gender field filled out as female and just not “correcting” them when they assumed I was a cisgendered woman. I enjoyed people naturally assuming I was a girl although putting up with sleazy weird internet guys hitting on you isn’t fun and for anyone born with a female body I am not envious of that part of your life whether its online or in real life. A few of my friends also rather politely started referring to me with female terms (She, her etc.) and I would get a little angry and upset when they slipped up and used a male one. I felt very comfortable and free when I was doing things to express myself like this but still trapped in a body I didn’t want.

Very recently I decided to just do a bit of research on transitioning sex and last night I came to the conclusion that it would in fact give me the body of an infertile female. I suddenly felt liberated and not trapped because if I really wanted to I basically could be a girl but there was some other stuff too. While I can gain female secondary sex characteristics and have surgery done to fix my face and genitals I am still doing that to what is essentially a very manly and block shaped body (I am wide across the shoulders with an overall thick frame). I’m still not sure if I would turn out as a very womanly woman and while it’s true it would still would have been preferable to being a man I don’t want to be thought of as a “butch” girl :(. More importantly than that I’m suddenly very uncomfortable at the thought of becoming infertile, it’s probably foolish to say I’d want to be pregnant as a woman though I at least feel I would be a lot more comfortable with that then impregnating a woman however the thought of being able to do neither scares me even more. The flip side to suddenly not feeling as trapped is though that a large amount of the resentment towards my male body is gone. This has confused me greatly though because prior to this I was scared and feeling terrible with myself but suddenly a lot of that resentment is gone and I guess I can’t help but associate that with suddenly feeling okay with my male body.

I am now quite confused as something that has plagued me for so long has a viable solution I find myself feeling less like it needs to be solved than in a long time. I feel like I might just be on a high for finding a viable answer but at the same time it’s a very confusing feeling. I also still have my reservations about transitioning that make me afraid of that whole process and those coupled up with all that resentment and fear of my current body being lifted (at least for the time being) makes me wonder if I actually do want to be a woman. But it’s something I’ve wanted for so very long that I can’t fathom wrapping my head around not wanting it suddenly and the bad feelings I’ve had towards being a guy have been very real and on bad days very surreal. Still I suddenly find myself questioning my gender identity over this and I’m not sure what to think about that. If I was wrong it invalidates many years of who I thought I was and what I thought I wanted not to mention a fair amount of suffering. I guess it feels like I may have been lying to myself the whole time but that’s a hard thought to get my head around.

tl;dr When I finally convinced myself there was probably an adequate answer to what I wanted I am suddenly questioning myself entirely.

Sorry I'm not even sure what I want back in response to this I just need to get it out.

[Kindablue]

Huh. I've only ever heard of it in a context of knowing that something very painful was about to be done to one's self by one's lover. Or someone being told to bite the pillow by their lover, rather, because they were in for a world of improperly lubricated hurt.

That's the only context I've ever heard it in.

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Doubtful. I do lucid dreaming all the time (at least, I think I do... I can choose what to say, and rewind it and such...), and I'm fairly certain it would simply simulate what you though, consciously and non, waking up with a female body would be like. You'd need to have done so at least once for your brain to reproduce the experience, if that make any sense...

Last week I dreamed I was a trombone, and I vividly remember dreaming that I was a girl once when I was twelve. I'm not sure if I've ever had a lucid dream, though, and I don't really understand what the difference between a lucid and a normal dream is other than control.

[Coidzor]

I'm rarely actually occupying my physical shell when I dream, so even when I am a woman, whether it's a completely different person or a female version of myself, it has the same lack of sensation or feeling that being male or not having a body in the dream and instead watching everything play out as a diembodied point of view. Sounds like I'm missing out.

[Lady Serpentine]

Last week I dreamed I was a trombone, and I vividly remember dreaming that I was a girl once when I was twelve. I'm not sure if I've ever had a lucid dream, though, and I don't really understand what the difference between a lucid and a normal dream is other than control.

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying; I've had some pretty odd dreams too (being a dragon, and I think I may have ended up female in one of my dreams as well.), so I'm certainly not saying it's impossible to dream of yourself as female if you're not.

What I am saying is that it wouldn't be the same as actually flying as a dragon, or being a woman, because you've never experienced that in your actual life; you have no way to reproduce the sensation of your wings beating in the dream, because you've never had an experience that would let you do so. The same thing applies to being the opposite gender. At least, I'd assume it does (provided the dreamer isn't trans, of course.)...

[Arachu]

...Then why is it funny to you if you have to put that much care into it? Sounds like it just becomes a chore.

We don't, really - it's not particularly hard not to do it in public, and explanations are rather rare. We didn't really have to discuss them at length, anyway.

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Doubtful. I do lucid dreaming all the time (at least, I think I do... I can choose what to say, and rewind it and such...), and I'm fairly certain it would simply simulate what you though, consciously and non, waking up with a female body would be like. You'd need to have done so at least once for your brain to reproduce the experience, if that make any sense...

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Of course. The dream would be heavily tinged with what I'd expect, and if I were still lucid it would just be displaying what I'm thinking anyway.

I suppose it's plausible to 'program' such a dream, but it'd require a delicate setup. It would only 'work' (for learning my own reaction) if lucidity disengaged without thought and reasoning going away... If anything can do that, it'd be hypnosis. But it would only be certain to work if one was already dreaming, hence the "lucid" requirement...

There's that headache again... Eh, I'll live. Just wish I could go lucid and test the concept out...

[turkishproverb]

Well, you guy's dreams all sound so fun compared to the weird psychedelic-apocalyptic visions I've been having in my sleep since childhood.

[Kindablue]

I think you're misunderstanding what I was saying; I've had some pretty odd dreams too (being a dragon, and I think I may have ended up female in one of my dreams as well.), so I'm certainly not saying it's impossible to dream of yourself as female if you're not.

What I am saying is that it wouldn't be the same as actually flying as a dragon, or being a woman, because you've never experienced that in your actual life; you have no way to reproduce the sensation of your wings beating in the dream, because you've never had an experience that would let you do so. The same thing applies to being the opposite gender. At least, I'd assume it does (provided the dreamer isn't trans, of course.)...

To go back to the Matrix, how would you ever know that the machines got the taste of oatmeal right or not? And if they did get it wrong, is the simulated oatmeal not really oatmeal because its collection of sensations doesn't match what would be called, in the real world, oatmeal, or is it, by our belief that it's oatmeal, just as oatmeal-ly as real oatmeal?


Oatmeal... oh, God! I've said it too many time and it's gone weird on me!

[SMEE]

http://mohandasgandhi.tumblr.com/pos...little-brother

Let's add some d'aww at your day.

[Heliomance]

Why isn't gomorrahy a word?

[Lady Serpentine]

To go back to the Matrix, how would you ever know that the machines got the taste of oatmeal right or not? And if they did get it wrong, is the simulated oatmeal not really oatmeal because its collection of sensations doesn't match what would be called, in the real world, oatmeal, or is it, by our belief that it's oatmeal, just as oatmeal-ly as real oatmeal?


Oatmeal... oh, God! I've said it too many time and it's gone weird on me!

I don't think that really applies here; Arachu was wondering about whether or not one could actually experience what it would be like to wake up as a member of the opposite sex, as an objective experience, using that method. To figure out how one would react to what one thinks being the other sex would be, you could just do a thought experiment, rather than anything complex.

For example, if one had always had a shaved head, they couldn't learn anything about what having hair on their head felt like unless they grew some, once they'd exhausted descriptions. All they'd be able to find out by imagining it would be what what they imagined it being like felt like.

[Astrella]

I think we might be getting a tad too off topic peeps. Not that I not enjoy friendly banter over angry arguing though.

*snip*

Hmm, this resembles quite a bit how I feel / felt. I think every trans* person questions themselves quite a bit; it's something I still do rather often. I don't really know any real advice to fix this though, except talking to people about your doubts and thinking about it.

About the infertile bit; that upset me quite a bit too, but (I don't know where you're from) normally you can freeze in sperm before you start transitioning (because being on hormones for long enough makes you infertile) so while you can't get pregnant yourself (though don't discount medical advances) you still have biological kids.

For the rest, I don't really know? How long have you been questioning again? Note that if you decide to transition you can still break it off if it ends up not going well. (Oh, and about looking as a butch girl; you don't really know, hormones have a different effect depending on the person, so you can't really know in advance.)

Anyways, lotsa hugs. *hug*
I hope you figure it all out, and you can always come to the thread for advice, a talk, whatever. My PM box is also always open.

http://mohandasgandhi.tumblr.com/pos...little-brother

Let's add some d'aww at your day.

That's so sweeeett. *tears up*

[Kittenwolf]

Crying:

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I cry a lot, since I was about 16, which was the lowest point of my school career, what with the bullying and ostracism and such. My theory is I kind of broke my crying blocker at that point, because I was so unhappy and stuck with groups of people. Before that, I was able to not cry if I was in front of people, but now I've kind of lost that ability. Once you've cried a whole bunch in public for a couple of years, it's really hard to convince yourself that awful things will happen if you do so you better hold it in until you get home. (What does happen is the staring and awkward conversations with teachers. REALLY awkward, sometimes. But you get used to all that.) But yeah, by 18, teachers had started to yell at me for crying because I'd done it so much they assumed I was putting it on, but yelling at a distressed person ONLY MAKES THEM WORSE. And then they thought I was putting it on EVEN HARDER to get out of trouble. I hated school.

I actually had the opposite reaction to a similar situation in high school. Around year 8 I kind of told myself "That's it, not letting them see me cry every again". Since then, well, I physically *can't* cry anymore, despite plenty of times when it was appropriate and times I've really wanted to. Don't think I've cried in about.. 14 years.

[Lady Serpentine]

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*snip*
I also never quite understood “male culture”, I don’t know if it’s the right term but the mentality of all my male friends and how they acted when it was just “the boys” and how they’d talk and how they’d act in what they’d call “blokes time” was something I could never fit in with. I’d just feel awkward and uncomfortable and want nothing to do with it. Girl talk I was much better at and most of my closest friends who have known the most about me and I’ve felt that I’ve connected the best with throughout my whole lives have been females.s a hard thought to get my head around.
*snip*

While I can't comment on any of the other stuff, I'm a bit confused as to why this, especially the bolded bit, would be taken as evidence either way... I'm a cisgendered male, and most of my close friends are female (eleven (twelve if you count my sister) of them are female, and six, or at most (if one loosens the definition a bit), eight (? I'm not sure if one of them is trans or not, which would make it thirteen female and seven male. I haven't seen that person in quite a while, at least not for longer than a few minutes, though they did show up at the final showing of a play I was in presenting as female, from what I could tell...) are male). And, too, I and all of my male friends don't really seem to act terribly differently when it's just us than when we're with our female friends, other than that, in some cases (though not all; a lot of my friends are interested in theater and art, due to having met them through two plays, which both included a very talented artist friend of mine, who I hung around with quite a bit), we might tend to talk about things that we're interested in that they aren't, as we tend not to do so when they're around so that they're not bored. Is there a reason I'm missing that this isn't a null clue?

[MoelVermillion]

While I can't comment on any of the other stuff, I'm a bit confused as to why this, especially the bolded bit, would be taken as evidence either way... I'm a cisgendered male, and most of my close friends are female (eleven (twelve if you count my sister) of them are female, and six, or at most (if one loosens the definition a bit), eight (? I'm not sure if one of them is trans or not, which would make it thirteen female and seven male. I haven't seen that person in quite a while, at least not for longer than a few minutes, though they did show up at the final showing of a play I was in presenting as female, from what I could tell...) are male). And, too, I and all of my male friends don't really seem to act terribly differently when it's just us than when we're with our female friends, other than that, in some cases (though not all; a lot of my friends are interested in theater and art, due to having met them through two plays, which both included a very talented artist friend of mine, who I hung around with quite a bit), we might tend to talk about things that we're interested in that they aren't, as we tend not to do so when they're around so that they're not bored. Is there a reason I'm missing that this isn't a null clue?

I cannot speak for your experiences but most of the guys I've known in my life have displayed a "guy culture" when there are no girls around that I found awkward and extremely uncomfortable. I don't know if its common but I do know I want nothing to do with it .

[Lady Serpentine]

I cannot speak for your experiences but most of the guys I've known in my life have displayed a "guy culture" when there are no girls around that I found awkward and extremely uncomfortable. I don't know if its common but I do know I want nothing to do with it .

I was mostly just wondering why it was that not wanting anything to do with that would be meaningful in determining whether or not you were trans.

[MoelVermillion]

I was mostly just wondering why it was that not wanting anything to do with that would be meaningful in determining whether or not you were trans.

Oh its just my friend's all seem to have this unified "Guyness" that I do not have. You're right though, its largely irrelevant compared to other stuff.

[SiuiS]

Huh. I've only ever heard of it in a context of knowing that something very painful was about to be done to one's self by one's lover. Or someone being told to bite the pillow by their lover, rather, because they were in for a world of improperly lubricated hurt.

I've heard similar too, just not with pillow. Pillow, specifically, always had more... Warm connotations. Jeans, cushions, corduroy (very specifically corduroy) willowbark, and leather all for the no-fun, don't bite through your tongue stuff, but not pillows.

I suppose I've just been a good combination of lucky and selectively amnesiac...

I am now quite confused as something that has plagued me for so long has a viable solution I find myself feeling less like it needs to be solved than in a long time. I feel like I might just be on a high for finding a viable answer but at the same time it’s a very confusing feeling. I also still have my reservations about transitioning that make me afraid of that whole process and those coupled up with all that resentment and fear of my current body being lifted (at least for the time being) makes me wonder if I actually do want to be a woman. But it’s something I’ve wanted for so very long that I can’t fathom wrapping my head around not wanting it suddenly and the bad feelings I’ve had towards being a guy have been very real and on bad days very surreal. Still I suddenly find myself questioning my gender identity over this and I’m not sure what to think about that. If I was wrong it invalidates many years of who I thought I was and what I thought I wanted not to mention a fair amount of suffering. I guess it feels like I may have been lying to myself the whole time but that’s a hard thought to get my head around.


tl;dr When I finally convinced myself there was probably an adequate answer to what I wanted I am suddenly questioning myself entirely.

Sorry I'm not even sure what I want back in response to this I just need to get it out.

Venting is always good
I personally can't be much help with the majority of your post, but this last part sounds familiar. I think it's a matter of pressure. All that time spent, worrying, aching, fretting, no way out, running, wondering, fearing, dreading... Mentally compressed.

And then, a solution. It is a solution. It would work! And suddenly the clock stops. It's no longer a chess-match where you have to worry about this thing, and you can slow your pace. The rush is gone. But you're so used to a fast pace, so geared up, the sudden change in tempo throws you off.

I don't know I that makes any sense to you, as it got away from me... But I don't think the sudden abating of stress over it is any reason to worry.

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Of course. The dream would be heavily tinged with what I'd expect, and if I were still lucid it would just be displaying what I'm thinking anyway.

I suppose it's plausible to 'program' such a dream, but it'd require a delicate setup. It would only 'work' (for learning my own reaction) if lucidity disengaged without thought and reasoning going away... If anything can do that, it'd be hypnosis. But it would only be certain to work if one was already dreaming, hence the "lucid" requirement...

There's that headache again... Eh, I'll live. Just wish I could go lucid and test the concept out...

Not too hard, but really the fun of dreams is in letting go. An overly analytical approach to it could possibly change the focus, from the dreamy soft tinge you want to the more narrow, contrasted view you don't.

Try setting an extra alarm every other day, either an hour or half-hour earlier that usual. Wake up, slap yoursel or sommat, get fully awake, then go backto sleep. You should dream rather vividly, and remember it easier.

Well, you guy's dreams all sound so fun compared to the weird psychedelic-apocalyptic visions I've been having in my sleep since childhood.

You know what they say about grass, and it's color relative to fence proximity

Your dreams sound pretty cool. Much more meaningful than my own, mostly.

[tangent] [oatmeal]

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To go back to the Matrix, how would you ever know that the machines got the taste of oatmeal right or not? And if they did get it wrong, is the simulated oatmeal not really oatmeal because its collection of sensations doesn't match what would be called, in the real world, oatmeal, or is it, by our belief that it's oatmeal, just as oatmeal-ly as real oatmeal?


Oatmeal... oh, God! I've said it too many time and it's gone weird on me!

Oatmeal? Are you crazy?
Ah well. In the end, does any of that matter? You cannot possibly read the same thing an author writes, because the words and the story all have connotations and connections for the author that you could never grasp. It doesn't make the story any less worth-while to read. Would robo-oatmeal really distress you? Roboatmeal is an experience all those regular oatmeal eatin' folks will never have; grass is always greener, after all, on the other side of the fence.

I actually had the opposite reaction to a similar situation in high school. Around year 8 I kind of told myself "That's it, not letting them see me cry every again". Since then, well, I physically *can't* cry anymore, despite plenty of times when it was appropriate and times I've really wanted to. Don't think I've cried in about.. 14 years.

It's possible to get over, but it requires either work or tragedy. If you have any interest in gettin the ability to cry back, I'd suggest working on it. Really sad stories, letting stuff get to you, not shutting out stuff that you'd normally shrug off. Its better than the alternative, methinks.

-

I have a question, also. Why does everyone put an asterisk after trans? It seems meaningful and I kinda feel out of the loop for not knowing >>;

[Astrella]

I have a question, also. Why does everyone put an asterisk after trans? It seems meaningful and I kinda feel out of the loop for not knowing >>;[/color]

Oh, it's sorta alternative to transgender, it's mostly used because it's shorter and meant to include everyone who's not gender-normative. (Since transgender tends to have various meanings as well, but I think it can just be used interchangeably with transgender.)

[Kindablue]

[tangent] [oatmeal]

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Oatmeal? Are you crazy?
Ah well. In the end, does any of that matter? You cannot possibly read the same thing an author writes, because the words and the story all have connotations and connections for the author that you could never grasp. It doesn't make the story any less worth-while to read. Would robo-oatmeal really distress you? Roboatmeal is an experience all those regular oatmeal eatin' folks will never have; grass is always greener, after all, on the other side of the fence.

But really. "Oatmeal." That's a weird word, right? oooohte-meeeeel. As a funny coincidence, I have never eaten oatmeal. But I could, I think, get the gist of what it tastes like without actually trying it.

[Asta Kask]

I know I wouldn't mind doing some pillow biting now and again.

Isn't that just a matter of getting chaoskristy and the right hardware in the same place?

[Astrella]

Isn't that just a matter of getting chaoskristy and the right hardware in the same place?

If she's comfortable with that, not every trans woman is. Then again, there's always other "aids".

[noparlpf]

@SiuiS: I think on the last page you said something about whether "cis" is pronounced "sis" or "kis"--it's "sis". Or at least that's how I learned it in Chemistry.

Today I have found myself in a very confused situation and I kind of just need to let it out because its kind of eating me up inside a bit. My understanding of all the complex terminology you regulars use is a little low so try to just bear with me for a bit with that.

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For a very long time I've not quite been the most manly guy around. Even dating back to my childhood I was very happy playing with dolls though I was just as happy to with the toy trucks and things my parents bought me too.

When I got a little older and puberty hit (much earlier than it did any other male in my classes) I was always pretty uncomfortable with things like my body hair or deepening voice. At the same time I began noticing how the girls were developing such nice features and bodies and began to want that too. I was a pretty dumb and optimistic kid and began just imagining it happening to me eventually and inventing contrived situations in my head where it would happen. I made a point of wishing and even praying it would happen and began to take an interest in women’s clothing style over men’s and the like. I also never quite understood “male culture”, I don’t know if it’s the right term but the mentality of all my male friends and how they acted when it was just “the boys” and how they’d talk and how they’d act in what they’d call “blokes time” was something I could never fit in with. I’d just feel awkward and uncomfortable and want nothing to do with it. Girl talk I was much better at and most of my closest friends who have known the most about me and I’ve felt that I’ve connected the best with throughout my whole lives have been females.

At a certain point throughout this time I had also managed to gain way too much weight and have anxieties over that. I managed to lose most of that excess weight and even put on a bit of noticeable muscle and I was quite proud of my progress and a little proud of my body. I then went on to meet other people who had a much greater interest in working out than me and apart from feeling a little inadequate I once again stumbled upon these guy’s so called ideas of masculinity and how I not only didn’t fit within them but also that I didn’t want to.

At a certain point after this I came to the obvious realization that I wasn’t just going to wake up as a girl one day and that’s when I began to actively dislike my male body. I stopped liking anything about it and what used to be minor annoyances relating to it suddenly upset me majorly, I began to feel trapped and upset by a body I found ugly and didn’t want. At the same time I was discovering more about different gender identities and that just because my experience may not have been identical to ones for transpeople I’d heard of, just because I had some nerdy “male” hobbies (mainly video games) and just because I even still had what one could call rather male speech patterns, that did not necessarily mean I could be of a different gender to my sex. I began researching it further and the blocks just fell into place and it seemed like I knew what I was.

After spending a while in the closet about this I decided to confide in a few people who were very supportive of me. I also began doing just small things to express myself in the gender I wanted to. I started going shopping with one of my female friends a lot at female clothes store, I would just window shop and she’d actually buy things (it was a little embarrassing but at the same time I enjoyed it a lot). I also started doing things like appearing in online games with a female name and my gender field filled out as female and just not “correcting” them when they assumed I was a cisgendered woman. I enjoyed people naturally assuming I was a girl although putting up with sleazy weird internet guys hitting on you isn’t fun and for anyone born with a female body I am not envious of that part of your life whether its online or in real life. A few of my friends also rather politely started referring to me with female terms (She, her etc.) and I would get a little angry and upset when they slipped up and used a male one. I felt very comfortable and free when I was doing things to express myself like this but still trapped in a body I didn’t want.

Very recently I decided to just do a bit of research on transitioning sex and last night I came to the conclusion that it would in fact give me the body of an infertile female. I suddenly felt liberated and not trapped because if I really wanted to I basically could be a girl but there was some other stuff too. While I can gain female secondary sex characteristics and have surgery done to fix my face and genitals I am still doing that to what is essentially a very manly and block shaped body (I am wide across the shoulders with an overall thick frame). I’m still not sure if I would turn out as a very womanly woman and while it’s true it would still would have been preferable to being a man I don’t want to be thought of as a “butch” girl :(. More importantly than that I’m suddenly very uncomfortable at the thought of becoming infertile, it’s probably foolish to say I’d want to be pregnant as a woman though I at least feel I would be a lot more comfortable with that then impregnating a woman however the thought of being able to do neither scares me even more. The flip side to suddenly not feeling as trapped is though that a large amount of the resentment towards my male body is gone. This has confused me greatly though because prior to this I was scared and feeling terrible with myself but suddenly a lot of that resentment is gone and I guess I can’t help but associate that with suddenly feeling okay with my male body.

I am now quite confused as something that has plagued me for so long has a viable solution I find myself feeling less like it needs to be solved than in a long time. I feel like I might just be on a high for finding a viable answer but at the same time it’s a very confusing feeling. I also still have my reservations about transitioning that make me afraid of that whole process and those coupled up with all that resentment and fear of my current body being lifted (at least for the time being) makes me wonder if I actually do want to be a woman. But it’s something I’ve wanted for so very long that I can’t fathom wrapping my head around not wanting it suddenly and the bad feelings I’ve had towards being a guy have been very real and on bad days very surreal. Still I suddenly find myself questioning my gender identity over this and I’m not sure what to think about that. If I was wrong it invalidates many years of who I thought I was and what I thought I wanted not to mention a fair amount of suffering. I guess it feels like I may have been lying to myself the whole time but that’s a hard thought to get my head around.

tl;dr When I finally convinced myself there was probably an adequate answer to what I wanted I am suddenly questioning myself entirely.

Sorry I'm not even sure what I want back in response to this I just need to get it out.

I don't have much useful advice, but I hope you can work things out. Good luck!

As for "guy culture", I know I usually act differently around guy friends from how I act around girl friends. It's interesting to notice the differences. Around guys I'm a lot more competitive, because obviously I need to one-up everybody else. I also feel like I swear more.

http://mohandasgandhi.tumblr.com/pos...little-brother

Let's add some d'aww at your day.

That's adorable. n.n

[Echoes]

On guy culture:

There are plenty of guys who are comfortably male who still feel intensely uncomfortable in hyper-masculine environments.

Growing up, three of my step-brothers were captains of the high school football team -- one has gone on to become a car mechanic, one joined the army, and one works as a security guard. As you can imagine, their interests don't extend far beyond sports, drinking, and barbecue. I like playing music and doing geeky things on the computer, and I'm very 'out of my element' in a sports setting. Though I am gay I hardly think of myself as feminine or flamboyant (and, from what I've heard from my friends, most can't seem to pin any sexuality on me either way), but that doesn't stop me from not being a 'manly man'.

Do not think that not having the same interests as a group automatically makes you the 'opposite'. Luckily for us, the world is not so cleanly divisible into neat dichotomies. (Saying somthing is "not red" is not the same as saying it is "green", its 'opposite' on the color wheel, for instance). It would be very, very boring if there were only two templates for human beings, and all within one template or the other came pre-packaged with the same conversation points. While having unique interests gives you opportunity to expand your horizons and consider other possibilities, don't feel pressured into a decision over out-dated and inaccurate gender associations. Trust me, sitting through 50 football games just isn't worth it, and at the end you will still only know about a quarter of the rules. >.>