Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[Glass Mouse]

So, I have a date. Um, yeah that's basically it. This girl is like, my perfect match, so I hope I don't mess this up?

And small update of my own, unrelated to anything here, just if folks are interested...I've just found out that the group of people going to the concert has been reduced to just me and my crush due to other parties having things they're doing. Is that opportunity I smell?

Third date is in the works!

Oh my gosh, so many good things happening at once. Congrats, guys, and good luck!

[Triscuitable]

How is that relevant? The appearance is not what was being referred to regardless of whether you can see it or not, and t-folk aside, girls possess vaginas and boys do not. And having a vagina, as pointed out, does not make girls part of a hive mind. I'm not seeing why you felt the wrong word was being used.

Because it's a common misbelief. Otherwise, it's fine.

[The Bandicoot]

Because it's a common misbelief. Otherwise, it's fine.

The point. You missed it. The point wasnt the difference between vagina/vulva. It was girls =/= hive mind.

[Coidzor]

Because it's a common misbelief. Otherwise, it's fine.

Irrelevant as it was impossible for you to know as was pointed out, also, tangent-creating. So not conducive to aid-generation. Inefficient, even.

If you do this a lot IRL, I would recommend very strongly to rein it in, as it essentially just puts up unnecessary barriers to interpersonal communication and bonding.

So, I have a date. Um, yeah that's basically it. This girl is like, my perfect match, so I hope I don't mess this up?

Good luck and don't build her up onto too much of a pedestal.

Third date is in the works!

*fistbump 'n' pump*

And small update of my own, unrelated to anything here, just if folks are interested...I've just found out that the group of people going to the concert has been reduced to just me and my crush due to other parties having things they're doing. Is that opportunity I smell?

Carpe Hottiem. Carpe Basium, even.

[dehro]

Is that opportunity I smell?

more like a setup..but of the pleasant variety

[Form]

Aaaaand rose-girl has hooked up with someone else. I saw that one coming, but damn, it still tastes bitter.

[Triscuitable]

The point. You missed it. The point wasnt the difference between vagina/vulva. It was girls =/= hive mind.

But I don't believe in girls having a hive mind. These two, girl I asked for help and girl I will ask out are friends, who share the same interests. She gave the ice cream idea based on common interests.

[Dallas-Dakota]

*mutters* The one time.....stupid college...stupid lack of time....*/mutters*

So I actually flirted with a girl, she responded. That's happend before.
Frequent flirtings on the times I've seen her after that.
We've got a lot in common, like a lot of the same music, both very creatieve(Some fields we share, some differ), and we just get along great.

And then...dun dun dun, for a change....DD made the move!
And we kissed!

But (here comes the sad part. Come on, it's a post by me in RWA, ofcourse there's a sad part) then we realised that we're(and especially she) both far too busy with college and whatnot for us to have a relationship on the level we'd want. Her being practically married to her work(graduation year for her) and me being busy enough with college, volunteer work and chronich migraine....So we'd see if we were still into eachother in a couple of years or when we both had more time.

Normally I can get over a girl just fine, thinking to myself that she's happier if we just stay friends or just don't speak anymore. Now this time it's not the case and grah. So yeah. Annoyed, to say the least.

On another note, male friends repeatedly asking me how I'm single with the very high amount of women in my life does not help.

[Rawhide]

But I don't believe in girls having a hive mind. These two, girl I asked for help and girl I will ask out are friends, who share the same interests. She gave the ice cream idea based on common interests.

You should be more careful with what you write then:

Oh, fantastic! I'm passing all my classes in school (barely passing English, but that's easily rectified), I'm maintaining a healthy lifestyle, and I've found someone I'm going to ask out to frozen yogurt tomorrow (suggestion from a friend, she says girls love this place downtown. She has a girlfriend, so she knows these things. Convenient to have someone on the "inside").

Specifically, "(suggestion from a friend, she says girls love this place downtown. She has a girlfriend, so she knows these things. Convenient to have someone on the "inside")". That implies that you think either that all women think alike, or at least that a high enough percentage do.

---

Now, I know you have Asperger's Syndrome (you've mentioned it on the forums before) and I have experience working with people who also have Asperger's Syndrome. So, I know why you were so pedantic with your correction, but let me give you some tips.

First, as others have said, the "correction" was completely unwarranted, as no one was talking about a specific area that was incorrect. There was no correction necessary as nothing said about that body part was incorrect.

Second, as also already mentioned, you have completely missed the point. As crude as it was, the point was that women do not have a so called "hive mind", they do not all think completely identical, as your post implied that you thought.

Third, even if what they had said had been slightly incorrect (which, as mentioned, it wasn't), you need to learn when to let it slide and not correct it. This is one thing that I know many people with Asperger's Syndrome have problems with. You need to realise that in many cases, 100% accuracy is very much not important and you should say nothing or go along with it for the sake of the conversation. You will alienate people if they, for example, say they are breathing oxygen and you immediately correct them to say that they are actually breathing a gaseous combination consisting of approximately (rounded to a whole value) 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 1% argon, with trace elements of carbon dioxide and other gases. It is completely unimportant, irrelevant, beside the point, and will aggravate people.

Hopefully those points will be of help for you in understanding why the conversation went the way it did and how to better understand and guide other conversations, online and in real life, in the future.

[Triscuitable]

Hopefully those points will be of help for you in understanding why the conversation went the way it did and how to better understand and guide other conversations, online and in real life, in the future.

I appreciate it, and yes, your words did help. Some things on this forum I wish I could take back, but unfortunately, that's not possible.

[Kalmageddon]

Ok I feel kind of stupid speaking about this issue and I feel like it might make a lot of people go "" or even "", but a forum seems like a good place to get lots of opinions on the matter and I'm really feeling sort of lost.

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I don't understand love or romanticism anymore.
The key word being "anymore".
I did, in fact I was (and I still can be) very romantic and caring and sweet and all that good stuff. But I don't need to.
If I want something from a girl, be it sex, company, a relationship, whatever, all I need to do is just "go for it", like I couldn't care less.
Please, don't give me that "not all girls are alike" speech. I know, really! In fact I never find myself attracted to the exact same thing when it comes to girls. They, like every other human being, each have their own personality. Each one of them is a whole universe to discover. And yet this works with every single girl I've met.
Now of course this left me to realize something horrible: girls don't care about romanticism. I don't have to be interested in their problems, I don't have to care about their feelings, I don't have to say "I love you" (I never do), I just need to be confident and direct, a little funny, a little charming, but I don't need to do anything for them!
And they don't care!

And I know I sound crazy but this is horribile. Because you don't need love anymore. You don't need to give anything. In fact when you do you make yourself vulerable, for nothing! Beacuse everything you want from a girl you can get it faster and with less effort if you just think about yourself as long as you act decent enough with her.
And there is a part of me that says "you probably don't even need to be all that decent". I don't cheat on girls, I never did. I don't lie to them, never. Everything I say to them is what I honestly think. And even if being like this is just who I am, what I feel like doing, there's this idea that if I just tried, as an experiment, to actually not giving a **** about them, to treat them without any respect I would still get away with it. They would give me all they have to offer anyway.

This is probably a senseless rant now... But my problem is that I want to give, I want to be romantic. But I want it to matter, I want to see that what I do for a girl is making her happy, but right now it seems that none of it it's necessary to have an enjoyable relationship with any girl I want and instead it just needlessly complicate things.

You know how I feel? I feel like I just discovered that one broken weapon in an FPS videogame that does everything better then other weapons. I want to use other weapons I like, but if I do I get worst results, so why bother? I just stick with the broken one until I simply stop enjoying the game.

And this is what's happening to me. I'm slowly becoming more and more detached when it comes to girls.
And they're loving it!
I just want to shout "LOOK! LOOK OVER THERE! THERE'S THAT ONE SHY CO-WORKER WHO OFFERS YOU COFFEE EVERY MORNING! He's probably all kinds of sweet, caring and not remotely cyinical as I am, and you don't even look at the poor guy! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? I'm a jerk that will get bored of you in a few months and you go for me?!"

I'm sorry guys, it's 3 am here, I'm not making a whole lot of sense, but I had to take this off my chest. Hopefully some of you might help me see things differently, because I know I can't be right, I have to believe I'm not right on this one.

Also to all the women reading: if you got offended by my post I'm truly sorry, everything I posted here is just my personal experience and believe me, I'd love to be proved wrong, that would make me enjoy your company a whole lot more then I already do.

[Grinner]

Kalmageddon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOwTF_i6zOc

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Kalmageddon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOwTF_i6zOc

"I always wear sunglasses indoors."
"Why?"
"Because it makes it easier to lie to women."
*awkwardpause*
"Because I'm a bastard."

[DeadManSleeping]

@Kalmageddon: Congratulations on the revelation that you can get things out of people without caring about them. Perhaps next you can tell us how the grass is green.

Of course you don't need to love someone to make them like you, or even love you. Do you know how many millions of jerks are out there letting people swoon over them and just using it to feed their ego? If I had to guess, I'd bet that situation was MORE common than a relationship of mutual affection.

Look, maybe you're not in a place emotionally where you can invest yourself in another person. That's fine. Every person gets like that for some period in their lives. Just try not to think that you've somehow stopped being able to love, because thinking that will stop you from loving. Your body and brain are perfectly capable of producing those chemicals and those mental leaps that we call "love". There are just other factors in your life stopping you.

I can't tell your future for you. I just hope that when love tries to come back into your life, you've kept its seat saved.

[noparlpf]

Your body and brain are perfectly capable of producing those chemicals and those mental leaps that we call "love".

I just ordered a book about that the other day. It should have arrived yesterday. It had darn well better be here tomorrow because I'm leaving for break tomorrow afternoon.

[Coidzor]

One does not have empathy because one gets something for it. One simply has it or one does not.

If you find yourself unable to care about anyone or anything when previously you could, then that sounds like it would fall outside of our purview to really comment on and you'd be better served by seeking professionals.

I don't know how the hell you're trying to explain having a mutual emotional connection without having a mutual emotional connection because last I checked that wasn't something you could charm, seduce, or coerce out of someone.

[Ceric]

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They would give me all they have to offer anyway.

*raises hand* This might not be what you want to hear, but I'm a girl and I don't consider it "giving". It's not a net loss for the girl. I enjoy it too y'know

I'm probably not representative though. I'm too busy with schoolwork and various emotional issues to want an actual relationship right now, so I don't want a lovely nice romantic guy. I just want someone who's confident and funny and fun to hang around with, and I consider those more important than how romantic he might be. I've dated a guy who was incredibly nice to an extreme and he always offered to get drinks and carry my bags and hold doors and whatnot, and I thought that was sweet because no one had ever done that for me before. But I always declined the offers as insistently as I could, and after a while they started to actively bother me because I'm perfectly capable of doing things myself - proud of it, in fact - and I wanted to do things myself, darn it :/ And then there was a guy who loved me and wanted to share everything in his life with me and I helped him find his purpose in life or something (hint: it was me) and he just weirded me out

I think it's becoming more and more culturally acceptable for girls to go out and do things that, in other times and places, would've gotten them labeled as sluts or worse.

I wouldn't want a long-term relationship with a guy who didn't care about me, but for the time being I'm perfectly fine with short-term relationships that are more about fun than romance.

YMMV.

[Triscuitable]

I just ordered a book about that the other day. It should have arrived yesterday. It had darn well better be here tomorrow because I'm leaving for break tomorrow afternoon.

Ever consider getting an e-reader? I've got one, and it's fantastic. Plus, books instantly, which is like going to a library at your home, except you pay for the books.

So, uh, Barnes & Noble in your home.

Anyways, I've come to realize my friend is a genius when it comes to setting up dates.

[noparlpf]

Ever consider getting an e-reader? I've got one, and it's fantastic. Plus, books instantly, which is like going to a library at your home, except you pay for the books.

So, uh, Barnes & Noble in your home.

Anyways, I've come to realize my friend is a genius when it comes to setting up dates.

I have a Kindle. I hardly ever use it though...
But yeah, I could probably have gotten a Kindle version of the same book, and maybe for cheaper.
Even so, I still prefer reading paper books.
And I liked Borders better before they closed.

[Kalmageddon]

*raises hand* This might not be what you want to hear, but I'm a girl and I don't consider it "giving". It's not a net loss for the girl. I enjoy it too y'know

I'm probably not representative though. I'm too busy with schoolwork and various emotional issues to want an actual relationship right now, so I don't want a lovely nice romantic guy. I just want someone who's confident and funny and fun to hang around with, and I consider those more important than how romantic he might be. I've dated a guy who was incredibly nice to an extreme and he always offered to get drinks and carry my bags and hold doors and whatnot, and I thought that was sweet because no one had ever done that for me before. But I always declined the offers as insistently as I could, and after a while they started to actively bother me because I'm perfectly capable of doing things myself - proud of it, in fact - and I wanted to do things myself, darn it :/ And then there was a guy who loved me and wanted to share everything in his life with me and I helped him find his purpose in life or something (hint: it was me) and he just weirded me out

I think it's becoming more and more culturally acceptable for girls to go out and do things that, in other times and places, would've gotten them labeled as sluts or worse.

I wouldn't want a long-term relationship with a guy who didn't care about me, but for the time being I'm perfectly fine with short-term relationships that are more about fun than romance.

YMMV.

Ok, you are right, that's totally not helping!

But seriously... I guess I'm just bitter from the realization that girls don't look for deeper things then us boys.
When you say you "enjoy it too", that's actually a pretty valid point... If a girl wants to stay with me even if I don't love her and she knows it, it's probably because she's fine with it anyway.

Then again there are those time when I am, as always, perfectly clear in my lack of commitment and the girl seem to be fine with it at first, only to later start moaning that she doesn't know "where we stand in a relationship" or "what kind of future can this story have", which makes me roll my eyes, because she clearly knew what our relatioship was about (hint: not about long term plans) but also makes me feel kind of guilty, like maybe I am taking advantage of her being unable to say "no" to me.

What I do know is that I don't want to have long term relationships anymore because of this but it bothers me to see other people looking foward to them with passion, it makes me think I'm missing something important, which is actually what i want to believe because I like the idea of romanticism.

I mean, when one of my friends has a girlfriend he is with her constantly, he makes her part of his life, he sees her almost every day and holds her in high regard.
I just can't bring myself to do that... To me, my girlfriend has her own life, her own friends and her own spaces just like I have mine. I don't want to see her every day, I would be fine with even once a week if it was memorable. And I don't really see my girlfriend as more important then my friends or my own life, she's just a person with whom I share intimacy and all that good stuff, why would this entitle her to some kind of special status? Of course I have some degree of fondness for her, but... It's not special or unique. There have been others before her and there will be more after, probably not even that far in the future.

I'm probably just disillusioned and I have to just live with it, I'd just like to see this as an option and not the only way to make things work smoothly.

[Sholos]

And then...dun dun dun, for a change....DD made the move!
And we kissed!

On a side note, how does one "make the move"?

On the topic of women only wanting fun and not actual relationships, it's actually kind of insulting to me. It's saying, "You're not the guy I want to spend my most fun years with. Someone else gets to have me then. You can have me when I'm older and after I've had my fun, because I'm not going to have fun with you." Especially if they ever, ever cry about there being "no good guys around".

[Astrella]

"gets to have me"?

[dehro]

I just ordered a book about that the other day. It should have arrived yesterday. It had darn well better be here tomorrow because I'm leaving for break tomorrow afternoon.

is it a manual? because I could trade you for an old manual about surviving zombies..apparently they work really well these books
yeah, a crossover, I did it

[Castaras]

Kal: Depends on the person, as always. I personally don't go for the romanticism and such very much, just because I find it to be a little bit of a waste of time. Every now and again it's cute, but I just go for people who I can talk to, have fun with, and enjoy being around - to me, a formal relationship is just a confirmation that these two people enjoy being around each other. There's love there, just not the romantic "oh I love you" "I love you mooore" "no I love you moooore coochycoosweetiepiecuteywutey" ().

Then again, I'm probably not at a good stage of my life to talk about love, considering I'm deliberately staying single because proper relationships are hard work.

[Sholos]

"gets to have me"?

In a society where men are pushed to be the pursuers? There's also the idea that you're giving yourself to a person in a way when you're in some sort of relationship (goes both ways, but society definitely puts more significance on a woman accepting a man rather than the other way around). So, yes, I think it's an appropriate phrase. Regardless, I think you're focusing on one insignificant detail and ignoring/missing the point.

Furthermore, I see no problem with a guy being fed up with that type of woman. If he's looking to actually commit then why should he be expected to wait around for some girl until she's done having fun? Why not go with the girl who wants to have fun with him in the first place?

On another note, I wonder how society would be changed if women were expected to win a man's approval rather than the other way around. Not saying that would be ideal, but I find it an interesting thought.

[RockmanDotEXE]

Upon reading this, I immediately froze up and started contemplating my own relationship. It's been great, but I've...noticed that I can get on her nerves a lot. I'm considering the idea that I'm either annoying or worse, I'm too insecure to know when I have a good thing. How would anyone here react to their own partner (hypothetical or otherwise) becoming insecure about their own ability to captivate? Is that even something important? I've honestly worn myself out just trying to chase this topic around. So far, It's mainly just been me trying to put it away and enjoy the moment.

[bluewind95]

Kalmageddon:

Wow. You've had interesting luck with girls. I can assure you not all are like that. Not that there's anything wrong for a girl to want fun and not a deeper emotional connection, but I find it interesting you seem to only have met that kind.

Personally, I am all for the emotional connection and without it, I will not give anything (will give a chance emotionally, till I tire of the one-sidedness). May have to do something with being asexual but heteroromantic. For me, a relationship is all about the caring. No, not the gentleman-y stuff like holding a door open (I'll do that, thankyou), or carrying my stuff (... OK, I might actually accept that, if I'm carrying enough). Nor am I interested in the "I love you" "No I love you more" contests. I mean, sure, some expression of feelings is fine. Nice, even. But I'd rather have those feelings expressed more in actions than words that could turn out to be empty. Ask me about my day, about my opinions. Listen to me. Talk to me. Let me ask you about your day and your opinions. Care about me and let me care. That's what matters to me.

So yeah. Not all girls are looking for just fun. Some of us do want something deeper than that.

[dehro]

Upon reading this, I immediately froze up and started contemplating my own relationship. It's been great, but I've...noticed that I can get on her nerves a lot. I'm considering the idea that I'm either annoying or worse, I'm too insecure to know when I have a good thing. How would anyone here react to their own partner (hypothetical or otherwise) becoming insecure about their own ability to captivate? Is that even something important? I've honestly worn myself out just trying to chase this topic around. So far, It's mainly just been me trying to put it away and enjoy the moment.

and there I thought that once you got the girl you'd done all the captivating you needed to do

[Kalmageddon]

Kalmageddon:

So yeah. Not all girls are looking for just fun. Some of us do want something deeper than that.

That's the point... I haven't met only girls that want to have fun, I've met all kinds of girls, but in the end, regardless of what they claim to be looking for in a relationship they end up liking the way I treat them even if I absolutely can't be mistaken for the caring guy to settle with, or even a good guy at all, I'm abosolutely a jerk, a charming one, apparently, but still...
This of course has left me coming up with some unplesant conclusions about the nature of love and romanticism, namely, I now think they are just tags to make lust* more socially acceptable and less shallow.

*and by lust I don't just mean physical attraction, I am the first to be more often then not be attracted by a girl for her personality and mannerism more then her looks (which of course is important too). But it's still lust, it's still just the desire to have sex with her in the end.

[GAThraawn]

That's the point... I haven't met only girls that want to have fun, I've met all kinds of girls, but in the end, regardless of what they claim to be looking for in a relationship they end up liking the way I treat them even if I absolutely can't be mistaken for the caring guy to settle with, or even a good guy at all, I'm abosolutely a jerk, a charming one, apparently, but still...

Little bit of a rant here, but I hope it is helpful, that is my intent.

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Well, firstly your problem is self-selecting. You've clearly been meeting girls that have more interest in a fun, short-term relationship, regardless of what they claim, because that's what you've been giving them and that's what they've been enjoying. If you haven't had the experience of trying to woo a woman who is truly interested in a deeper emotional connection and sees right through your insincere tripe, it's probably because they see you coming and want nothing to do with you. So don't fool yourself into thinking that you've dated every kind of woman on the planet, you haven't. You've dated the ones that like what you have to offer.

Now, there are going to be plenty of women who want what you have to offer. Lots of guys do exactly what you're doing without any self conciousness, and have plenty of success with women. Just like there are lots of guys who want a fun, sexy, no care for the future relationship with a woman who is charming and attractive and they don't really care if she's that emotionally avaliable because they don't truly care for her that much either and want a fun joyride, not a long term relationship, there are just as many women who want the same thing. Don't be surprised that by offering that service, you're attracting the people who want it. You can go through your entire life having vapid fling after vapid fling, at least until you age and the polish wears of your practised charm.

Now when you tell me that this isn't true, and you've dated girls that said they truly wanted commitment and a long-lasting relationship, but then settled for your short-term fun anyway, well, surprise, people don't always know what they want. And they don't always know what they're going to get. And not everyone can see through your polished veneer on the first try. If you haven't dated only girls who know exactly what you are and are okay with it, then you've also hoodwinked women who truly thought they could have a future with you. Maybe they saw the way you were acting and thought they could change you, maybe they didn't see through you until you were already seeing each other, and they stayed with you through inertia. Maybe they really didn't know what they wanted and they took you because it was better than nothing.

But there's nothing wrong with love, or your ability to participate in it. You've simply become a practised pickup artist, and you've discovered that if you're smooth and charming women will want to be with you. Good job, you figured it out. That's a good way to get people to want to hang out with you, and to sleep with you. But all of these relationships have ended (Did you get bored of them? Did they get bored of you? Did the less perceptive of them finally realize you weren't what they hoped you were?), and you're complaining about your ability to have a meaningful emotional relationship with someone because you aren't trying hard enough? Well, guess what, you aren't trying hard enough. Maybe you've never had the experience to compare it with, but it doesn't sound like your flings have a real, solid foundation of mutual trust and respect, or emotional openness or honesty. You're taking the easy road, and it's getting you what it's getting you. If that's all you want, enjoy it and stop fretting. if you want more than that, recognize that the problem is merely that you need to stop being a shallow, insincere jerk.

Romance and meaningful relationships are not simply a cover for shallow lust. I say this without hesitation or reservation. But short term flings are, often, a cover for shallow lust. So before you go decrying the nature of romantic relationships themselves, why don't you try one if that's what you want? And yes, that does involve not being a jerk, and actually caring about the girl your with. And yes, it does make a difference. You're just measuring your success by the wrong metircs.