Low-Light Vision, Darkvision, and just what the heck they are

[KnejaTurch]

Hail, Playgrounders! I have recently begun going through the core races of my campaign setting and tricking them out, to challenge my players' preconceptions and such. While on elves, i figured it'd be cool for them to be able to see in a broader spectrum then humans can, thus the +2 Spot and Search, and the low-light vision. Trouble is, I've no idea how this would affect them as a culture? how would their art and aesthetics be affected when they can see more colors then we can? how are their interactions and ability to sneak be altered? if at all? What if they could hear higher/lower frequencies then we can? how would it affect their music?
I also decided that Dwarves would can see infrared, how does this affect the way the live and act? especially their art?

Any and All help is appreciated!

Thank you!

[SowZ]

Hail, Playgrounders! I have recently begun going through the core races of my campaign setting and tricking them out, to challenge my players' preconceptions and such. While on elves, i figured it'd be cool for them to be able to see in a broader spectrum then humans can, thus the +2 Spot and Search, and the low-light vision. Trouble is, I've no idea how this would affect them as a culture? how would their art and aesthetics be affected when they can see more colors then we can? how are their interactions and ability to sneak be altered? if at all? What if they could hear higher/lower frequencies then we can? how would it affect their music?
I also decided that Dwarves would can see infrared, how does this affect the way the live and act? especially their art?

Any and All help is appreciated!

Thank you!

Do dwarves see only in infrared or do they see other colors in normal spectrums?

[KnejaTurch]

Do dwarves see only in infrared or do they see other colors in normal spectrums?

They can see both, but the plan was for them to not be able to see some colors that we can.

[fryplink]

As for how it would effect their art and culture? Well for seeing more colors, non-elves wouldn't find elven works aesthetically pleasing, simply because they would come off as confused or drab. Dwarves, being capable of seen in the infrared spectrum would probably design their art to naturally have a variable temperature (ie: make some bits thicker, other bits would have crevices, possible heat enchantments). Also, with low-light vision, they probably keep their buildings darker, though I imagine darkvision races keep theirs the same, just because seeing in color normally and infrared is nice

[Crasical]

Hail, Playgrounders! I have recently begun going through the core races of my campaign setting and tricking them out, to challenge my players' preconceptions and such. While on elves, i figured it'd be cool for them to be able to see in a broader spectrum then humans can, thus the +2 Spot and Search, and the low-light vision. Trouble is, I've no idea how this would affect them as a culture? how would their art and aesthetics be affected when they can see more colors then we can? how are their interactions and ability to sneak be altered? if at all? What if they could hear higher/lower frequencies then we can? how would it affect their music?
I also decided that Dwarves would can see infrared, how does this affect the way the live and act? especially their art?

Any and All help is appreciated!

Thank you!

If long-ago science classes serve me correctly, having a 'wider' spectrum of visual light would mean the Elves would be able to see slightly into Infared and Ultraviolet spectrums. That means they would be able to detect nuances in what would just show up as blacks and whites for humans. Having low-light vision might mean that sneaking around elves involves more camouflage and misdirection rather than lurking in shadows.

As for art and stuff, it would mean that humans would have patches where the music goes uncomfortably subsonic or dog-whistle pitched, or there would be patches of paintings or tapestry where they would miss the details in expanses of what would appear to them to be white or black.

[sonofzeal]

As much as Sean K Reynolds gets some things disturbingly wrong, I agree with just about everything he says about Infravision. I highly recommend reading this before giving Dwarves such an ability.

[fryplink]

If long-ago science classes serve me correctly, having a 'wider' spectrum of visual light would mean the Elves would be able to see slightly into Infared and Ultraviolet spectrums. That means they would be able to detect nuances in what would just show up as blacks and whites for humans. Having low-light vision might mean that sneaking around elves involves more camouflage and misdirection rather than lurking in shadows.

This is sort of true, though not entirely. If you think of it as use being color blind in ways we are not, while they may have a larger spectrum sure, it would also mean how they interpret existing colors is different. My father is color blind (ironically, he has an MFA specializing in watercolors)[red-green] and that range of colors appear the same to him, as such, perhaps the elves see different color dichotomies (ie:4 or 5 "primary colors" instead of 3) than humans.
The colors as we see them happen because the rods in our eyes are sensitive to certain wavelengths, (lets call them short, medium and long) and when all are stimulated we see white, when none are we see black, the colors are caused by certain proportions of stimulation to different cones (cones are the receptor cells) . Each type of cone only picks up a small part of the spectrum.
Now if the elves could see a larger spectrum, it would probably be because they had another "level" or two of cones beyond what exists in humans. Instead of 3 primary colors they would have 4 or more likely 5. To get an idea of what this implies, examine color blind humans and poke around in a psychology (sensory chapter) text or a biology text (I'm a psch minor who happened to take a class on sensory, so idk about bio books) in the color sections to see what someone with fewer cone-types than you would see. That is how the elves would think we see the world.

Also, the color blindness article on wikipedia appears to have what I'm talking about it (it's been a few semesters since I took the class, so I made sure my facts were correct by checking the good 'ol wiki) Notice how the browns in the protanopia section are huge, in the elven spectrum, humans would see the beginning and end as black and white, but the elves would see a myriad of colors that we can't see (looking at their spectrum charts we would see lots of black and white, where the would see super-purple and super-red, that look nothing like red and purple)

[KnejaTurch]

After fiddling around on the wikipedia page for the electromagnetic spectrum, and taking Fryplink's advice, I have decided that Elves see from 250nm-950nm which is just below and above the human visible spectrum. if this changes anything, let me know.
Also they can hear at >1Hz-27,000Hz. if its possible

[Ravens_cry]

As much as Sean K Reynolds gets some things disturbingly wrong, I agree with just about everything he says about Infravision. I highly recommend reading this before giving Dwarves such an ability.

Eh, I disagree with him on several points. It assumes that the spells mentioned like blur and invisibility invented by humans in a human only world. But given how many other monsters and creatures have darkvision, would it really make sense to research these spells to be only working for humans?

[sonofzeal]

Eh, I disagree with him on several points. It assumes that the spells mentioned like blur and invisibility invented by humans in a human only world. But given how many other monsters and creatures have darkvision, would it really make sense to research these spells to be only working for humans?

Partially addressed: "since the creature's body is heating the air around it, which the infra-user can see". Even if you're Invisible into the Infrared spectrum, that annoying aura effect means you'd have to be concealing not just yourself, but also the air around you. Infravision would also give additional context clues like footprints and other things. A sufficiently warm body actually leaves a subtle motion trail in the air behind it, so you'd have to be concealing, things you've touched in your square, and also the air in any square you've passed through in the last round or so, as well as the ground you've walked over.

And if it can do all that, why can't it hide mundane footprints?

I suppose you could come up with rulings for Infravision and Invisibility that works, but it sounds like a nontrivial task and rather awkward, which is the man's whole point. It just raises too many questions and exceptions.

[KillianHawkeye]

If long-ago science classes serve me correctly, having a 'wider' spectrum of visual light would mean the Elves would be able to see slightly into Infared and Ultraviolet spectrums. That means they would be able to detect nuances in what would just show up as blacks and whites for humans.

That is not how it would work at all. Black and white are not the extremes of the color spectrum. Rather, they are based on the amount of light spectrum present, or the amount of the light spectrum reflected in the case of pigments. Note that the names are infrared and ultraviolet, not infrablack and ultrawhite.

What would really happen is that these elves would be able to see light which is normally invisible to humans. We, as human beings, cannot really comprehend what this light would look like, but it would probably change the way that the elves perceive color entirely (assuming that some amount of extra-low and/or extra-high wavelength light is generally present all the time).

Wait. Here is an example: imagine how things look when a room is entirely lit by one color of light. Let's say red. Under red light, it becomes pretty hard to see any color besides various shades of red (impossible, actually). Normal white light contains all wavelengths of light in a more or less equal amount, which is why we can see all the colors we can see. With a wider spectrum of vision, these elves' vision would be comparable to human sight like human vision compares to seeing something only lit by one color light. If you can only see red, you wouldn't be able to imagine all the colors that people normally see, could you?

[Worira]

The one that jumps out at me is saying that minor image and the like wouldn't work because they're figments. It's not like it's any harder to project an image into someone's mind if it's in infravision.

[deuxhero]

As much as Sean K Reynolds gets some things disturbingly wrong, I agree with just about everything he says about Infravision. I highly recommend reading this before giving Dwarves such an ability.

Agree, don't give it to PC races, however, it isn't THAT hard to whip up a monster ability

Allow them to see any distance (but with spot checks per normal vision), half spot checks to locate [fire] creatures ([cold] shouldn't pose any problems as they are blatantly silhouetted so normal for them) or against a particularly cold background, make illusions (including the defensive line), undead and constructs invisible to them unless they explicitly give off heat and increase the spot DCs against Reptilians or creatures that took at least... 8 cold damage within the last round. Areas subjected to AoE fire damage are blindspots for the next round (the creature is blinded if hit by such)

Areas a creature has been within the last minitue are considered "fresh tracks" for this creature.

I just solved almost all the problems presented.

[sonofzeal]

Agree, don't give it to PC races, however, it isn't THAT hard to whip up a monster ability

Allow them to see any distance (but with spot checks per normal vision), half spot checks to locate [fire] creatures ([cold] shouldn't pose any problems as they are blatantly silhouetted so normal for them) or against a particularly cold background, make illusions (including the defensive line), undead and constructs invisible to them unless they explicitly give off heat and increase the spot DCs against Reptilians or creatures that took at least... 8 cold damage within the last round. Areas subjected to AoE fire damage are blindspots for the next round (the creature is blinded if hit by such)

Areas a creature has been within the last minitue are considered "fresh tracks" for this creature.

I just solved almost all the problems presented.

It's still an attempt to mix real-world physics in D&D, and that usually ends in tears.

It also doesn't sound like a monster I'd use - instantly defeats all Illusions with no save, but is blinded by a 50gp mundane item on a ranged touch attack, even if the attack misses? Yikes!

[deuxhero]

OK, blinded is a little strong, but.

[Ravens_cry]

Partially addressed: "since the creature's body is heating the air around it, which the infra-user can see". Even if you're Invisible into the Infrared spectrum, that annoying aura effect means you'd have to be concealing not just yourself, but also the air around you. Infravision would also give additional context clues like footprints and other things. A sufficiently warm body actually leaves a subtle motion trail in the air behind it, so you'd have to be concealing, things you've touched in your square, and also the air in any square you've passed through in the last round or so, as well as the ground you've walked over.

And if it can do all that, why can't it hide mundane footprints?

I suppose you could come up with rulings for Infravision and Invisibility that works, but it sounds like a nontrivial task and rather awkward, which is the man's whole point. It just raises too many questions and exceptions.

Well, have the invisibility field extend in about a five feet cube (assuming human size), both in visible (to humans) and infra- and ultra-vision spectrum. Invisibility already has less effect when you are moving, so I don't see why it needs to hide thermal footprints outside the five foot cube.
Other illusions would also have an infra-vision component.
Personally, I make dark vision so it's like the picture in third edition of the mind flayer comparison; it sees textures and surfaces but can't tell differences in pigmentation.
This has some interesting effect on dwarven cultures. Instead of colourful clothes, embroidery and different textures and insets is more common as an embellishment. Also, dwarven writing is on tablets and uses runes or cuneiform.