OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread

[Jay R]

Nuh-uh. His eyes gone all X-es;he's dead,Jim.

Of course he's dead. He doesn't have a name.

On other matters, what is Redcloak's plan with the phylactery? I thionk a crucial fact is that he needs Xykon for the ritual, but after that, Xykon is just a danger to the goblins in general and Redcloak in particular.

I have the vague idea that Redcloak wants to break the phylactery after the ritual is cast, ideally while the Order of the Stick is taking down Xykon again. (Again? Yup - he's already been regenerated by his phylactery after the Order destroyed him, back in strips 114-115) This requires him to hide the fact that he now has it.

It will be interesting to see what his story is, since he won't be able to hide the fact that the resistance is no longer raiding them. Also, he has one more loose end to tie up - the resistance spy back in the city itself.

[t209]

How many have noticed that the arcs of this comic have cycle of good and bad endings?

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The first arc started as good ending as Xykon army was crushed. Now the resistance was crushed but since team evil will leave there's a hope for homeland

[Surrealistik]

I'm glad Devil Durkon got that ipad he wanted so much.

[Gorgon_Heap]

You'd think by now I'd be used to a rediculous stick-figure comic making me emotional.

This is sad. The poor, poor resistance, and Niu all alone in a hostile land.

Lamentation, lamentation!

[Raistlin82]

Here's some truth about storytelling: details are ALWAYS important.

No, it's not a truth.
If they were ALWAYS important, they wouldn't be details.
Sometimes a meaningless detail is just a meaningless detail.

And the Giant has already told all of you that NOT EVERYTHING has to be shown, not everything has to be told with clear letters. Things that obviously are not important, are not important.
Focus on the important ones (Thahn's sacrifice, Redcloak's determination and secrets, Niu's escape) and let go of the Epyleptic Trees.

[Roland Itiative]

I'm glad Niu survived. She's a really good character. And Redcloak... well, he really seems to be growing a backbone, doesn't he? I wonder why, exactly, the details of the current events must remain a secret... Is it about RC summoning quite a lot of fiends, perhaps showing an alliance between the IFCC and the Dark One? I mean, even if RC intends to hide the phylactery from Xykon, that would hardly be a secret "between my god and I"...

Also, I wonder how much Niu will be able to convey through that Sending... I mean, she's not portrayed as the most efficient character, but wanting revenge might cause quite a change in character...

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm glad Niu survived. She's a really good character. And Redcloak... well, he really seems to be growing a backbone, doesn't he? I wonder why, exactly, the details of the current events must remain a secret... Is it about RC summoning quite a lot of fiends, perhaps showing an alliance between the IFCC and the Dark One? I mean, even if RC intends to hide the phylactery from Xykon, that would hardly be a secret "between my god and I"...

"A secret between [you, ] me and God" is a common expression. I'm pretty sure Redcloak hasn't directly hatched this plan with the Dark One, but he's trying to be the only mortal being alive that knows of it.

[t209]

No, it's not a truth.
If they were ALWAYS important, they wouldn't be details.
Sometimes a meaningless detail is just a meaningless detail.

And the Giant has already told all of you that NOT EVERYTHING has to be shown, not everything has to be told with clear letters. Things that obviously are not important, are not important.
Focus on the important ones (Thahn's sacrifice, Redcloak's determination and secrets, Niu's escape) and let go of the Epyleptic Trees.

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At least we can listen to this after being revealed that the resistance is wiped out.
P.S- I thought the survivors would sing this song before they died.

[Kish]

I hope that the XP-link between hero and villain works also in favor of the hero, meaning that next time OOTS has gained a lvl as well.

It's not between hero and villain. It's between "personal rivals." Roy is not the same level as Xykon (far from it), and Redcloak isn't the personal rival of any of the OotS.

[Khaethrag]

OK, let's see: Thanh is dead, the resistance is crushed, and RC has the phylactery. Yep, that's a good strip for Friday the 13th.

Can't wait for the OOTS to kick some tail so I can see the good guys get some wins.

[Bleak Ink]

I am breathtakingly impressed with the degree of Took a Level in Badass and level-headed tactics displayed in this update.

[t209]

OK, let's see: Thanh is dead, the resistance is crushed, and RC has the phylactery. Yep, that's a good strip for Friday the 13th.

Can't wait for the OOTS to kick some tail so I can see the good guys get some wins.

I hope the corpses in the hideout are holding off the demons while the others are escaping. Do you notice that the comic have good ending and bad ending cycle?

[madtinker]

Maybe someone has said this already, but if Redcloak is planning on keeping the phylactery I think it could work. Like Xykon said, be immune to the damage of your area effect spells: Redcloak isn't stupid enough to pull a stunt he isn't prepared to finish. If he does keep the phylactery, it's because he knows where to hide it or how to use it to control Xykon.

[random_guy]

I'm glad Niu survived. She's a really good character. And Redcloak... well, he really seems to be growing a backbone, doesn't he? I wonder why, exactly, the details of the current events must remain a secret... Is it about RC summoning quite a lot of fiends, perhaps showing an alliance between the IFCC and the Dark One? I mean, even if RC intends to hide the phylactery from Xykon, that would hardly be a secret "between my god and I"...

I also think the secret is all of the fiends that he summoned.

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The Dark One may have formed some kind of alliance with the IFCC and he wants it to be kept secret from the good gods. Redcloak is doing his part to keep the alliance secret.

I somehow doubt that he would withhold the phylactery from Xykon. His comments to Right Eye when he looked in the mirror indicated that he is committed to his alliance with Xykon. Also, Xykon constantly loses his keys, where would he hide the phylactery from Redcloak without losing track of it?

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The safest choices are letting Redcloak keep it, or handing it over to Tsukiko. Neither of those choices make a difference if the alliance breaks up. Redcloak is higher level than Tsukiko, so he can kill her and destroy the phylactery if Xykon ever falls. If Xykon kills Redcloak, it does not matter if he has the phylactery or not. He can never be a threat to Xykon.

Also, I don't think Tsukiko will discover the purpose of the ritual, at least not anytime soon. According to the oracle, Xykon will go to Girard's gate. If he knows the ritual is meaningless and grants control to the Dark One, there is no reason for him to go to the next gate.

[Reprimand]

Niu is awesome and poor Thahn. Stupid elf leader attacked when they should have run. You don't attack a high level tier 1 head on, EVER.

[-Sentinel-]

Noooo, Eyepatch Chick!

Oh, and Thanh, I guess.

That's our Redcloak: clever, ruthless, and dangerously genre savvy. I'm not really rooting for him, but I do hope he manages to improve the goblins' plight by the end of the strip. He deserves to accomplish something.

[legomaster00156]

Thahn was awesome. Here's to hoping that someday, after Xykon is defeated, they come back to the mountain to find his corpse and raise him.

[t209]

The resistance have died but

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Their martyrdom will bring cry for war on gobbotopia by other nations and resistance movement will spread in Blue River and Red Mountain hills!

[Ellen]

The simple, direct thing to do would be

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destroy the phylactery. Then, wait for a chance to get Xykon destroyed.

Still risky hoping for a chance at that second part, but a simple, direct plan - which means it's probably the last thing RC is planning.

I don't know what more complicated plan he could have. I'm guessing

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putting the phylactery in some kind of magical containment so that Xykon would be trapped and under RC's control if he has to use it.

The would allow The Plan to continue.

Of course, I'm probably wrong about that.

Two things about polymorphed spies -

1) Is the polymorphed Resistance spy still hidden as a Goblin/Hobgoblin?

Actually -

1.a) Does RC know there's a polymorphed spy? When it was mentioned earlier, it's unclear who would have already known and who wouldn't have. The Goblinoid spy might not have had a chance to pass on that info if he just found out. Besides that, RC may not have any idea WHO the human spy is. Xykon would cheefully kill as many Goblins as necessary to see which one turned human when he died, but RC might decide not to bother ferreting out one spy with no one left to spy for.

and -

2) There's still

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RC's niece from SoD. The polymorph angle may have also been a reminder for how she could have been hidden. For a little while, I was wondering if she might turn out to be in the Resistance, Of course, our brains could still be hurt by the discovery she's Niu, but I don't think the Giant means to hurt us THAT badly.

Oh, right. Look who I'm talking about.

Well, I still figure any guess I make is likely to be wrong because I so often don't see his curve balls coming.

[Tundar]

So bearded devils are fond of Apple products, huh...

Bwa hahahaha. Good one

Redcloak sure does have something up his sleeve. I hope it will be somewhat of a nasty surprice for Xykon.

[Skios]

Wooo! Called it almost 2 years ago!

You predicted that the evil overlord's second in command would attempt to betray him? Pretty appropriate, given your username .

[Beowulf DW]

Wow. These last few strips have been impressive, polarizing, and somewhat depressing. My respect for the Giant may soon rival the respect I have for Tolkein.

[One Skunk Todd]

He'll say the elves got away with it and are probably going to destroy it.

Or that it's buried under a mountain of rubble, literally. :)

[WickedWizard17]

Oh my gods RUN, NIU, RUN! Thanh, you died a hero. Who was that polymorphed guy, anyone special? Or was Redcloak just frustrated over more goblin deaths?

Man, I missed Team Evil!

[Griever3216]

So you could say that loosing an eye opened his eyes... eye... the one he has left.

I officially love you.

[Mastikator]

No strip may go without insane speculations, here is my contribution:

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The traitor wasn't a hobgoblin, he was a human, that's why he didn't transform back upon death and Redcloak was going to execute him if he'd live.
Redcloak planted the spy to tell the Resistance to plant a spy, that way when the hobgoblins found the Phylactery the Resistance can (with Redcloaks help) apprehend the Phylactery without anyone knowing AND without ever casting suspicion on Redcloak should it later be discovered that it was found.
He used summons instead of hobgoblins to make sure that nobody knew (that's why he was going to kill the human traitor, a plan he seemed to view as a necessary evil).
This way, he can kill the Resistance and get the Phylactery AND keep Xykon in the dark.
I suspect that he transpires to destroy the phylactery if Xykon should ever die, and replace Xykon with an arcane caster he can control, the gate-thing, after all, is Redcloaks quest, not Xykons. ;)

[Nohar]

Hmmm... What could do Redcloak with the phylactery ?
Xykon doesn't know (yet) that they found it, but there is still the small possibility that one hobgoblin, who knows that the phylactery was discovered, stayed in the sewer and may inform Xykon.

So, here are my hypothesis :
- Redcloak gives back the phylactery to Xykon... Very unlikely.
- Redcloak try to blackmail Xykon with the phylactery... Won't work, it's Xykon, and Redcloak may be croaked in the process.
- Redcloack destroys the phylactery. The item is well protected, but Redcloak probably knows some ways to bypass/remove these protections. Once he destroys it, Redcloak polymorph his own back-up symbol in order to give it the shape of the phylactery, and tells Xykon that they found it. This way, Xykon doesn't know that his phylactery is destroyed, and Redcloak can turn against him whenever he wants to. Most plausible hypothesis to me. Note that if Xykon has any way to know that his phylactery is destroyed without actually seeing it, my hypothesis is no longer viable.
EDIT: Crap, RMS Oceanic kinda beat me... Well, great minds think alike.
- Same hypothesis as above, except that instead of destroying it, he hides it.
- Redcloack toss it into the rift... Too random to my taste.

[brionl]

Gee, one would think a fiend would prefer a Zune.

/rimshot

If Redcloak is thinking about making a move against Xykon, hiding the phylactery would be a "foolish risk". He'll either hand it over, or destroy it right away.

Since the dedication of Gobbotopia ceremony Redcloak has been ready to move on as well, so he's going to have to make up some kind of story to get on the road again.

[Almaseti]

Oh Thahn. You were awesome. It's characters like these that keep making me want to play paladins. At least we know he's going somewhere awesome. Unlike that human traitor jerk.

Poor Niu. That whole situation's gotta suck for her.

[CelestialMagpie]

AH No, NOooooOOOooo! Thanh

What on Earth is Niu going to do? After contacting Hinjo, I hope she incites some action from neighboring countries.

RC is much more focused now, I'll agree. He's sacrificed emotion for expedient action - and it's terrifying.