American Mythology Setting (Help is welcome!)

[Zap Dynamic]

Hmm. Sad to see the ending change. The original story was a tale about the tragic consequence of Man v Machine, in that Machine won. I would have Iron John die from exhaustion (sheered his own metal joints with the effort of beating the steam drill), and become a Hero that way, inspiring the Ironmen to push harder for true equality. Also, I'm sorry, but I have to share this. Best version of John Henry I know of.

I like that idea. I didn't know how to approach this myth in particular, because it's not really "man vs. machine" anymore. Regardless, I think the idea of an Ironman that falls apart from stress and inspires a rebellion in his memory is cooler. Consider it changed!

How about Jefais (I make in French) or Jecreis (close to "I create" in French). Or, taking your suggestion and mixing it, how about J'amatu?

What's the precedent here? I was thinking about a name for the culture (since they're a 'mixed breed'), but this seems like it would almost be more appropriate as a name for the zombies. Basically, I'm just saying that I don't understand what you're pointing at, here.

I get it. I like what you've got in regards to the Organizations and Domains. I might change Organizations to Ideas (Freedom or Independence...or Sobriety for Prohibitionist Cleric ) or perhaps just straight semi-worship of individuals. Like, your "Bear" Redfelt (Bully!) wouldn't be a cleric of the Knights of Copper (Isaiah Copper = Abraham Lincoln), but of Saint-Emperor Copper directly.

I think I understand what you're saying here. Instead of having domains attached to organizations, you're proposing that domains be attached to ideas, and those ideas could then theoretically be attached to organizations? I think I like that. That way the Champions could be "freelancers," and they might gain the attention of relevant (and antagonistic) organization as they gain in level.

Mammoth Cave should totally be the entrance to some sort of Underdark, by the way

I like this idea, but I'm not sure how to implement it. It seems like it would be a natural extension of the Mountain Folk ("We came from the earth") and other natives, but I'm not sure what they would think of creatures that still live underground. Super sacred? Really primitive? For that matter, what would the creatures underground actually be like? Intelligent and spiritual? Primal and savage?

On the subjects of monsters/races/creatures, I find that I'm really enjoying everyone's suggestions, but all of them seem like solitary creatures. Is there evidence in American folklore for things like changelings, fairies, or goblins? a creature that isn't known as this single, powerful entity, so much as an entire race that's known to meddle, attack, etc?

[Inglenook]

Hmm, the only American beastie I can think of that's explicitly stated to live and work together in an organized way are Tommyknockers. But even they aren't natively American—brought over from Wales, according to Wiki.

Though lots of the American monsters/races mentioned could always be reworked into societal creatures. After all, the myths/legends don't explicitly say "Hey, this is a unique creature!" For example: tailypo could be a warrior from a tribe of tailypoes hidden in the forest, and the ultimate mark of shame to them is losing a limb, so he has to reclaim it before he can return home.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I like that idea. I didn't know how to approach this myth in particular, because it's not really "man vs. machine" anymore. Regardless, I think the idea of an Ironman that falls apart from stress and inspires a rebellion in his memory is cooler. Consider it changed!

Man vs Machine is an old theme that has a lot of precedence in American Folklore and Literature from around the Industrial Revolution. I'm not opposed to Machines myself.

What's the precedent here? I was thinking about a name for the culture (since they're a 'mixed breed'), but this seems like it would almost be more appropriate as a name for the zombies. Basically, I'm just saying that I don't understand what you're pointing at, here.

I thought we were making a name for Pseudo-Voodoo/Hoodoo. Oops! In that case, a name for the Black-French people (was that what they were? I might have missed that post) could be Medeux. I took the beginning of Metis (“mixed-race” according to Google) and added “two” in French. Two races, Mixed. Medeux.

I think I understand what you're saying here. Instead of having domains attached to organizations, you're proposing that domains be attached to ideas, and those ideas could then theoretically be attached to organizations? I think I like that. That way the Champions could be "freelancers," and they might gain the attention of relevant (and antagonistic) organization as they gain in level.

Yeah. Like, the Pseudo-American Red Cross worships Betsy Clay, a nurse during the Pseudo-Civil War, and get the Healing Domain.

Or the Army worships Jefferson Huitzoptek Williamson, who devastated the Pro-Ironmen-Slavery side of that same war, and grants those who follow his footsteps the Destruction Domain.

I like this idea, but I'm not sure how to implement it. It seems like it would be a natural extension of the Mountain Folk ("We came from the earth") and other natives, but I'm not sure what they would think of creatures that still live underground. Super sacred? Really primitive? For that matter, what would the creatures underground actually be like? Intelligent and spiritual? Primal and savage?

Try Primal and Spiritual. They are potent manifestations of the physical and spiritual world, but very animalistic. In the same way, Bison may be sacred to Native Americans in RL (don't quote me), but they still eat them.

On the subjects of monsters/races/creatures, I find that I'm really enjoying everyone's suggestions, but all of them seem like solitary creatures. Is there evidence in American folklore for things like changelings, fairies, or goblins? a creature that isn't known as this single, powerful entity, so much as an entire race that's known to meddle, attack, etc?

Trouble is, in my mind, stuff like fairies, goblins and changelings is a European thing. You could say that there are such things around, but that they aren't native either. Rather, goblins sneaked over on the first ships to this new continent, like rats. Or something like that.

[Zap Dynamic]

Man vs Machine is an old theme that has a lot of precedence in American Folklore and Literature from around the Industrial Revolution. I'm not opposed to Machines myself.

Righto. What I meant was the Iron John story wasn't really "Man vs. Machine" anymore, so much as it was "Man-like Machine vs. Fo REAL Machine." It doesn't seem as compelling.

I thought we were making a name for Pseudo-Voodoo/Hoodoo. Oops! In that case, a name for the Black-French people (was that what they were? I might have missed that post) could be Medeux. I took the beginning of Metis (“mixed-race” according to Google) and added “two” in French. Two races, Mixed. Medeux.

I dig it. Short, sweet, to the point.

Yeah. Like, the Pseudo-American Red Cross worships Betsy Clay, a nurse during the Pseudo-Civil War, and get the Healing Domain.

Or the Army worships Jefferson Huitzoptek Williamson, who devastated the Pro-Ironmen-Slavery side of that same war, and grants those who follow his footsteps the Destruction Domain.

Radical. Though I would want to change "worships" to "reveres," just because it seems more American in my mind. We U.S. folks have a tendency to be pretty zealous about our heroes, but I think the official term is still closer to "revere."

Try Primal and Spiritual. They are potent manifestations of the physical and spiritual world, but very animalistic. In the same way, Bison may be sacred to Native Americans in RL (don't quote me), but they still eat them.

Nice! I had this idea for a campaign setting once where every single creature was considered to be a god (like a herd of cattle might be a herd of feast gods), and the PC races of the world just took it as a matter of course that they were supposed to respect (and sometimes fear) all the creatures, but they weren't necessarily supposed to be protected.

Trouble is, in my mind, stuff like fairies, goblins and changelings is a European thing. You could say that there are such things around, but that they aren't native either. Rather, goblins sneaked over on the first ships to this new continent, like rats. Or something like that.

Ha! Those tricksy goblins. I think it would be better to steer clear of those particular races, but if we could find something to fill the role of those races, then that would be awesome. In other words, I don't want "goblins," but I do want a race of tiny, filthy creatures that are widespread, super lightweights, and mischievous and all get-out. It's just a matter of finding suitable American replacements.

[TheMeMan]

Ha! Those tricksy goblins. I think it would be better to steer clear of those particular races, but if we could find something to fill the role of those races, then that would be awesome. In other words, I don't want "goblins," but I do want a race of tiny, filthy creatures that are widespread, super lightweights, and mischievous and all get-out. It's just a matter of finding suitable American replacements.

Well, quickly, I do know that many Native groups believed in "water elves", of sorts, that lived at the bottom of lakes and were small and rather malignant. Of course, the word isn't actually "elf", but that's what early Europeans translated it to, as it was what they thought the Natives were talking about.

I'll have to look into some details, but they could fit the bill. Most tribes have stories about some race of none-to-nice folk that live at the bottom of lakes and the like. Lakes were rather feared, with many stories involving monsters residing within them(See the Lake Monster I already posted about).

Anywho, I'll look into it and figure out some of the details. I'm only vaguely familiar with the myths involving them right now.

Also, Giants were rather prominent in some societies(Giants of all sorts). Once again, I'll look into details.


Also, as far as the underground race, I agree with them being Primal and Spiritual. However, I would also like to add that the surface folk would probably greatly revere them through the link they have with the origin, but also likely have a tad bit of fear as they would be commanding the unknown(Or perhaps trepidation or anxious respect would be better phrasing). Most of the myths about mythical beings convey images both of something that is well respected and love as well as feared due to its power. Most everything could be described as being "in the gray" as far as how "Good vs. Evil" sort of things are taken. They are neither necessarily good nor bad, kind nor evil. They simply are, and as such should be both respected fully and to some extent feared.

[Zap Dynamic]

I had an idea this morning: since we've established a steampunk theme (albeit with elements of plenty of other stuff thrown in for the different regions), I think it would be cool to have a Rapture-esque element in Coterois. New-real New Orleans is below sea-level, so it seems like a natural extension of reality to say there is an actual part of Coterois that is submerged beneath the waves.

Couple this with the predominant native belief that things underwater are not to be trusted, and all of the natives could view Coterois as an abomination or something, and shun it at all costs.

Thoughts?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I had an idea this morning: since we've established a steampunk theme (albeit with elements of plenty of other stuff thrown in for the different regions), I think it would be cool to have a Rapture-esque element in Coterois. New-real New Orleans is below sea-level, so it seems like a natural extension of reality to say there is an actual part of Coterois that is submerged beneath the waves.

Couple this with the predominant native belief that things underwater are not to be trusted, and all of the natives could view Coterois as an abomination or something, and shun it at all costs.

Thoughts?

A portion of Coterois sank into the sea some time ago, due in part to Pseudo-Voodoo (a favor from the Other Side gone wrong/horribly right),and also in part due to the machinations of a cult following a Cosmic Abomination (of the Lovecraftian variety). This cult are monstrous fish-people who still live in the ruined Sunken Quarter, giving black sacrifices to their Unspeakable Gods.

The Natives Hate these guys. Besides being under the "Biggest Lake Monster of All" (ie; the Ocean), these guys probably dabble in all sorts of forbidden magic and have traditionally used Natives as their sacrifices.

But some enterprising Imperials, Led by Dr Steam himself, have reclaimed part of the Sunken City, abandoned even by the Cult. Using advanced and novel Steampunk tech and Magic together, they have created a habitable underwater city, Foundation. Foundation is also known by another name: Ville du Sans, City of Vice. The city is open to all types of business, and has cemented itself as a thriving Party Town.

[LensmanRob]

As you are looking at a port city and have mentioned Paul Bunyan, you could find a way to include Stormalong.

Who knows, there may even be a great white whale and a one-legged captain out there. Ahab and Moby **** are pretty solid american legends by now.

The horrors of industrialization can be pretty well shown with the docks and the industries around whale oil.

[Omeganaut]

If you want a small, social race, Gremlins could possibly fill the gap. Yes, I know they started in England, but many mechanical failures were blamed on them in WWII (mostly unseriously, but it stuck.), and the myth has been expanded upon here. There has even been a movie about it, where they start as cute creatures until they get wet.

Also, you could include some giants. Paul Bunyan isn't the only larger than average human out there, Pecos Bill was said to be huge, and many native geographical myths involve giants or giant creatures altering the landscape.

Also, I'd have some reference to the modern pre-ocupation with realistic simulations. Perhaps there is a drug that can allow you to live your dream life, and it is being used to lure natives into "civilized" actions such as signing their land over.

[Ashtagon]

http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewt...hp?f=70&t=3422

Can I donate my Modern Gods project to this setting?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Also, I'd have some reference to the modern pre-ocupation with realistic simulations. Perhaps there is a drug that can allow you to live your dream life, and it is being used to lure natives into "civilized" actions such as signing their land over.

Heh heh. A kind of Coffee that makes you Knurd? Way too awesome, but it could lead to a movement like the Early Modernists (Ie; depressingly sober existentialist stuff).

[Zap Dynamic]

Foundation, the Ville du Sans.

I love it! The only thing I might change is the Dr. Steam bit. MAYBE he came along and started it, but I think he would have moved on before it became a place of corruption. I imagine him being too brilliant/focused on his work to be caught up in corruption, politics, or silly things like profit.

As you are looking at a port city and have mentioned Paul Bunyan, you could find a way to include Stormalong.

Who knows, there may even be a great white whale and a one-legged captain out there. Ahab and Moby **** are pretty solid american legends by now.

The horrors of industrialization can be pretty well shown with the docks and the industries around whale oil.

The more I think about it, the more I think that giants need to have a definite place in this setting. There's just too much precedent for it. However, it seems like they show up in the world occasionally (as opposed to living in the world normally). Does this imply that they live in remote areas that no one's ever found? Or maybe that they come from some other plane?

I don't know how we managed to overlook Captain Ahab so far. Good call!

Gremlins stuff.

Giant stuff.

Simulation stuff.

I like it! The gremlins could be statistically identical to goblins, and flavorfully identical with rats. They're small, disgusting creatures who came over from the old world by hiding aboard ships, and now they plague the underworld of every major city.

I mentioned above that I think giants are simply going to have to be a part of the setting.

I want to be careful about getting too modern with our interpretation. The idea of a "simulated reality" craze is a powerful part of American culture, but I don't know that it's an appropriate mythic element given the time period of the setting (late 19th century). I feel like people back then were more interested in the idea that nature was considered "passé" and were anxious for the day when the whole world became urbanized than the idea that reality is this place that needs to be escaped from. I feel like Ninjadeadbeard comes close with his latest comment: the idea of escaping reality is related to the existential movement, but I think it's a product rather than a cause.

However, I could totally get on board with some kind of addictive substance that's introduced to the population of the continent and threatens their way of life.

Can I donate my Modern Gods project to this setting?

Thanks for the offer! A lot of those could be really useful, but some of them are way too modern for the setting. World, Road, Wood, Stone, and The Artist would fit right in, and Media, The Kid, The Man, and El-Five are too modern, and the rest fall somewhere in between those two camps.

Any chance you'd like to take out the modern gods and add in some Steampunk Manifest Destiny era gods instead?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I want to be careful about getting too modern with our interpretation. The idea of a "simulated reality" craze is a powerful part of American culture, but I don't know that it's an appropriate mythic element given the time period of the setting (late 19th century). I feel like people back then were more interested in the idea that nature was considered "passé" and were anxious for the day when the whole world became urbanized than the idea that reality is this place that needs to be escaped from. I feel like Ninjadeadbeard comes close with his latest comment: the idea of escaping reality is related to the existential movement, but I think it's a product rather than a cause.

Actually, 19th Century saw the rise of the Romantic Movement, where nature was seen as a mysterious, monumental, all-powerful force. Man was but a mote in God's eye. For some good examples, see The Open Boat by Stephen Crane, Herman Melville's Moby (rhymes with Pick), and Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper.

The Urbanization was still there, so I would say a great conflict in American culture has been Urban vs Nature, where the latter is seen as potent and magnificent, and the former is comfortable and inevitable.

Also, because it makes me laugh, Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses by Mark Twain.

[Omeganaut]

At the same time there was a big push for modernization and manifest destiny, there was also a movement for philosohpizing and the natural world. Ralph Waldo Emerson was a big figure, and started a big movement on philosophy and respecting the natural world. Perhaps there are some druids, ranger, and magic-users who are against the mechanized progress, and fight it on any terms.

Also; here is a link to the pathfinder page on Gremlins.

[Zap Dynamic]

I've edited the first post, throwing in hints about a conflict between urban and rural life. I've also added a section on "Factions," to make a list of nations, cultures, organizations and religions. I'd love it if someone could double check that to make sure I haven't forgotten anything. Most of the names on that list are wide open to be changed... I just threw something up there as a placeholder.

The more I think about it, the more OK I am with having the steampunk setting coexist with swordplay. If we set this in the late 1870s, revolvers have only just started to come on the scene, and most people would still be using single-shot weapons... maybe even flintlock things in some regions. With that in mind, guns become a (still very valuable) fight-opener, before closing in with swords drawn. Granted, there are still those people who have the means to own a high-falutin' six gun, but those people are rightly feared and very rare.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The more I think about it, the more OK I am with having the steampunk setting coexist with swordplay. If we set this in the late 1870s, revolvers have only just started to come on the scene, and most people would still be using single-shot weapons... maybe even flintlock things in some regions. With that in mind, guns become a (still very valuable) fight-opener, before closing in with swords drawn. Granted, there are still those people who have the means to own a high-falutin' six gun, but those people are rightly feared and very rare.

Should probably move that date back a bit. Repeater Rifles appeared around the beginning of the Civil War (The Winchester). And Gatling guns were used by the Union as early as 1862 according to Wikipedia.

Best solution: Since the setting is Medieval, guns are still new. Flintlocks have just been invented. What you're probably looking at is a world where Melee is king, but no one can wear metal armor since even these basic firearms can punch through it. Only a few fanatically loyal men, agents of the Empire, would have access to Masterwork armor that can protect from firearms.

Edit: Ooh! Just thought of a character for the setting. Noticed you had nothing down in the OP for Edgar Allen Poe. How about, Usher Ravenholm? A powerful Wizard who spent his days creating poetry infused with mighty illusion spells in order to draw the reader into his poems. After a time, he disappeared, presumed dead (though secretly Vampirized or Lichified). A good horror-themed quest would be for PCs to enter Usher's House and traverse his own dark internal world, either to save him or destroy him.

[Zap Dynamic]

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Should probably move that date back a bit. Repeater Rifles appeared around the beginning of the Civil War (The Winchester). And Gatling guns were used by the Union as early as 1862 according to Wikipedia.

Best solution: Since the setting is Medieval, guns are still new. Flintlocks have just been invented. What you're probably looking at is a world where Melee is king, but no one can wear metal armor since even these basic firearms can punch through it. Only a few fanatically loyal men, agents of the Empire, would have access to Masterwork armor that can protect from firearms.

That's essentially what I was thinking. My date was based on a quick glance through Wikipedia, but looking a little more closely I see that the Winchester was indeed in use by the Civil War. Is there any information available about whether these guns were available to civilians that early? For instance, I think that military-grade weapons today aren't legal for civilian possession, but I could understand if that wasn't the case back then.

Either way, here's what I'm thinking: Flintlocks are what the everyman carries (if they carry a gun at all), whereas revolvers and repeaters are available to lawmen, military men, and the rich and powerful. Even if someone gets ahold of a revolver at low level, the attacks-per-round mechanic of most Pathfinder and DnD will help to contain that kind of power.

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Edit: Ooh! Just thought of a character for the setting. Noticed you had nothing down in the OP for Edgar Allen Poe. How about, Usher Ravenholm? A powerful Wizard who spent his days creating poetry infused with mighty illusion spells in order to draw the reader into his poems. After a time, he disappeared, presumed dead (though secretly Vampirized or Lichified). A good horror-themed quest would be for PCs to enter Usher's House and traverse his own dark internal world, either to save him or destroy him.

I love it! How terrifying would be it to walk through the Masque of Red Death or The Fall of the House of Usher? However: what about a bard instead of a wizard? Wizards have access to higher-level spells, but Bard just seems more thematically appropriate.

[Inglenook]

The Poe idea is awesome. Please let him have a dire raven familiar.

[Omeganaut]

The thing with military weapons is that control over who had what was a lot less strict back then. Often times, soldiers would take their weapons back home with them when their enlistment was up (especially after a war). Other times soldiers discarded weapons on the march, which were fair game for the next traveler. Also, if an enemy won a battle, they were free to loot the weapons of the soldiers as well. The Native Americans eventually received quite a collection of useful rifles (although many did not use them accurately).

Actually, this brings up a problem and a new idea. The problem is at this stage there is very little to support a split in the Empire that would resemble the civil war. Did the Ironmen get freed peacefully? Very doubtful. Then how were the sides drawn? Ironmen are much more expensive than slaves, require less upkeep, and can be very practicable in factories as well as on the frontier. This makes having one geographic area that wants to end their bondage rather difficult. And if you still want to do the South vs. the North, the geographic accommodations for the Cajuns have made it difficult to create a large enough, unified enough nation that could hold off the might of the industrial north for long. Plus the North generally controlled the sea, which was an important aspect of their success, as the South could not make good equipment, and they could not trade their valuable crops for it as only a few ships could run the blockade.

On another note, we are missing a John Brown. How about a Cleric of Freedom named James Cooper, who spent a lot of time on the frontier bushwhacking pro-servitude men. Fed up by how little his efforts were doing, he marches on the largest repository of weapons and tries to capture it with a small force. Unfortunately, he is unable to convince the old, beaten down Ironmen in the area to join him, and he is defeated by a small force.

Come to think of it, we are going to end up with a lot of martyrs. Honest Lincoln, Iron Henry, James Cooper. And that's just the start!
Oh, and a link you might find useful Native myths thread

[Zap Dynamic]

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The thing with military weapons is that control over who had what was a lot less strict back then. Often times, soldiers would take their weapons back home with them when their enlistment was up (especially after a war). Other times soldiers discarded weapons on the march, which were fair game for the next traveler. Also, if an enemy won a battle, they were free to loot the weapons of the soldiers as well. The Native Americans eventually received quite a collection of useful rifles (although many did not use them accurately).

I figured that was going to be the case. Personally, I'm okay with hand-waving the prevalence of steam technology, yet a relative dearth of guns like repeaters and revolvers. If that means we should make it closer to 1870 than 1880, so be it. No biggie.

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Actually, this brings up a problem and a new idea. The problem is at this stage there is very little to support a split in the Empire that would resemble the civil war. Did the Ironmen get freed peacefully? Very doubtful. Then how were the sides drawn? Ironmen are much more expensive than slaves, require less upkeep, and can be very practicable in factories as well as on the frontier. This makes having one geographic area that wants to end their bondage rather difficult. And if you still want to do the South vs. the North, the geographic accommodations for the Cajuns have made it difficult to create a large enough, unified enough nation that could hold off the might of the industrial north for long. Plus the North generally controlled the sea, which was an important aspect of their success, as the South could not make good equipment, and they could not trade their valuable crops for it as only a few ships could run the blockade.

As far as their relative costs, I imagine Ironmen to be about the same as slaves. Though they may not need to eat, I imagine them becoming REALLY finicky if they're not maintained regularly, the point being to balance them better with other PC races. They may be a little tougher or stronger than normal humans, but they're just as costly to use. With that in mind, the industrialized portion of the nation might not want to employ them, solving that problem.

Addressing the other problem: what if the roles of the North and South in the war were switched? What if, in this world, the North were the ones that had plantations and used Ironmen for labor, and the South was the more industrialized, sea-worthy region? If makes sense, considering that the Southeast of this continent is one huge peninsula, and because the North has better access to that plain. The North wouldn't be able to trade their crops with natives because of encroachment, and might not even have access to much of the plains region because of active conflict, or a lack of pioneering at the time. Similarly, the South would be even better poised to form a blockade, since the North would only really be able to trade with Coterois.

Come to think of it, Coterois wouldn't have any other access to steady food supplies, so maybe they sided with the North even though they're so far South. Even more reason for them to have a reputation for a seedy underworld: they're a haven for those who are still sore about losing the war.

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On another note, we are missing a John Brown. How about a Cleric of Freedom named James Cooper, who spent a lot of time on the frontier bushwhacking pro-servitude men. Fed up by how little his efforts were doing, he marches on the largest repository of weapons and tries to capture it with a small force. Unfortunately, he is unable to convince the old, beaten down Ironmen in the area to join him, and he is defeated by a small force.

I dig it. I'm really loving all the input from everyone about historical figures (we can use it!), but I haven't seen a whole lot done for mythic American figures. Anyone want to tackle Pecos Bill? Paul Bunyan? Johnny Appleseed?

Come to think of it, we are going to end up with a lot of martyrs. Honest Lincoln, Iron Henry, James Cooper. And that's just the start!
Oh, and a link you might find useful Native myths thread

Thanks! Skimming the first few pages, there's a lot of info there that we already have here, but a lot more that we don't. It will make for a good read!

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Addressing the other problem: what if the roles of the North and South in the war were switched? What if, in this world, the North were the ones that had plantations and used Ironmen for labor, and the South was the more industrialized, sea-worthy region? If makes sense, considering that the Southeast of this continent is one huge peninsula, and because the North has better access to that plain. The North wouldn't be able to trade their crops with natives because of encroachment, and might not even have access to much of the plains region because of active conflict, or a lack of pioneering at the time. Similarly, the South would be even better poised to form a blockade, since the North would only really be able to trade with Coterois.

Hmmm. Could work. I'd stick with that, but maybe reverse which one is Pro and Anti-Slavery. Think of it: A rural Plantation based economy doesn't have the tools to maintain Ironmen. Factories do. You could have the war be between a rural, more magically based North versus a more urbanized/mechanized South who shackles Ironmen to their factories.

Just a thought to switch things up. It also would make the winners more sympathetic (not that the original Union wasn't) by transforming them from an Unstoppable Industrial Juggernaut into a Rag-tag bunch of Misfits trying to right a great wrong against terrible odds. RL Americans love underdogs. It also lets you use the Magic v Tech theme in the form of a direct contest. That said, this world's war doesn't need to end so clear-cut and clean. Perhaps there's a short era of splintering during and after the war before re-unification can take place. Maybe only the Slavery issue is resolved while both Nature and Tech take a hit.

But above all else, if you plan to flesh out Pseudo-America's Civil War (seriously, we need a name for this Empire), it has to be big. Not just in casualties or in numbers, but in ideas. The American Civil War was our culture's Odyssey. A fictional version of it should carry no less grandiosity.

Come to think of it, Coterois wouldn't have any other access to steady food supplies, so maybe they sided with the North even though they're so far South. Even more reason for them to have a reputation for a seedy underworld: they're a haven for those who are still sore about losing the war.

RL New Orleans was allied with the South, but got itself swiftly occupied by the Union in short order. Personally? I'd make Coterois into this world's Casablanca, a place that, during the war, acted with great autonomy due to its remoteness, acting as both City of Spies and gateway out of a war-torn nation. During the war, Coterois was of great strategic importance (it was hard to chase smugglers into the swamps and its sailors were experienced enough to run blockades with ease), that it was the unoffical middle ground, where agents of the North and South could meet, both for diplomatic purposes, espionage and occasionally assassination. After the war, the city became a safe haven for deserters and veterans alike, particularly the more violent element who couldn't let go of the carnage they saw.

I dig it. I'm really loving all the input from everyone about historical figures (we can use it!), but I haven't seen a whole lot done for mythic American figures. Anyone want to tackle Pecos Bill? Paul Bunyan? Johnny Appleseed?

Nothing so far beyond that Poe idea. I'll think on it.

[Zap Dynamic]

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Hmmm. Could work. I'd stick with that, but maybe reverse which one is Pro and Anti-Slavery. Think of it: A rural Plantation based economy doesn't have the tools to maintain Ironmen. Factories do. You could have the war be between a rural, more magically based North versus a more urbanized/mechanized South who shackles Ironmen to their factories.

Just a thought to switch things up. It also would make the winners more sympathetic (not that the original Union wasn't) by transforming them from an Unstoppable Industrial Juggernaut into a Rag-tag bunch of Misfits trying to right a great wrong against terrible odds. RL Americans love underdogs. It also lets you use the Magic v Tech theme in the form of a direct contest. That said, this world's war doesn't need to end so clear-cut and clean. Perhaps there's a short era of splintering during and after the war before re-unification can take place. Maybe only the Slavery issue is resolved while both Nature and Tech take a hit.

But above all else, if you plan to flesh out Pseudo-America's Civil War (seriously, we need a name for this Empire), it has to be big. Not just in casualties or in numbers, but in ideas. The American Civil War was our culture's Odyssey. A fictional version of it should carry no less grandiosity.

I like those ideas, but I'm a little cautious. I like the idea of steam technology spreading with the years, and I feel like the industrial region winning is the only way to accomplish that. At the same time, it seems strange that an agrarian region would rely on automatons and still be noticeably different from an industrial region. Also, will the setting be too radically different from the real world if the agrarian nation wins? Let's work through this stuff.

Big Ideas behind the war: ensuring the freedom that brought the Empire to these shores in the first place, and the fight to recognize the worth of all (Imperial?) sentience?

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RL New Orleans was allied with the South, but got itself swiftly occupied by the Union in short order. Personally? I'd make Coterois into this world's Casablanca, a place that, during the war, acted with great autonomy due to its remoteness, acting as both City of Spies and gateway out of a war-torn nation. During the war, Coterois was of great strategic importance (it was hard to chase smugglers into the swamps and its sailors were experienced enough to run blockades with ease), that it was the unoffical middle ground, where agents of the North and South could meet, both for diplomatic purposes, espionage and occasionally assassination. After the war, the city became a safe haven for deserters and veterans alike, particularly the more violent element who couldn't let go of the carnage they saw.

That idea is just. too. cool! I'm totally down with it. Maybe with a dash of this? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything cooler than Steampunk Noir Zombies in the Wild West.

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Nothing so far beyond that Poe idea. I'll think on it.

Think harder!

On another note: the double-action revolver wasn't developed until the 1880s, which limits people in our world from going rapid-fire mode unless they're REALLY good, which I like. There's also an implication that you can shoot faster if you're only holding one gun. Alternately, you could have two guns, shoot less often, but have two different enhancements at your disposal. I like these ideas.

I also watched Sukiyaki Western Django tonight, and it restored my faith in the ability to have guns and sword side-by-side. Wunderbar!

[Zap Dynamic]

And while I'm online: as far as names are concerned, I think this continent needs one badly. The Empire can just be the "Empire of ________"

America was named after Amerigo Vespucci... but I don't think I like that. I'm leaning towards playing with "Manifest Destiny." Thoughts?


Another mythical figure: what if we take a page from Disney, and bring Baron Samedi down to earth? He could be a pretty nice BBEG.

[Baltor]

In the second largest state with the second largest populace everything should be doubled in size. Also they should always reffer to their home state rather than country of origin when asked where they come from by people from other continents/countries.They should have the reputation of being slow witted an beligerent, even though they are one of the most technologically advanced and friendly peoples.

[Baltor]

Bebbaria could be a good name as it is a play on Bebbia which means Gods pledge, and could play into the whole manifest destiny thing.

[Zap Dynamic]

What language is that from? Hebrew? I think I'd rather stick to something a little more European.

Here's an interesting couple of paragraphs, though I don't think it helps us out. Who knew that the New World is basically named Henrietta?

As for a name for this place, what if we just called it "The New World?" It's got that sense of discovery and destiny attached to it, it's easily recognizable, and "The Empire of the New World" sounds pretty cool. Even if we end up coming up with a different name for it later on, I figure we can use this as a placeholder.

On a different note, I think I can flesh out the Native creation myth a little better. We've already got the bits about people originating in the earth, and I found a similar myth while reading a Nat Geo article about Cave-Dwelling Papua New Guineans.

Basically, there was this divine being (the First Creator for our purposes) who walked around and saw all the cool plants and animals and thought "hey, this would be a cool place for people to live." So he went to this cave, opened a crack in the back of it, and people started to crawl out. They came out in tribal groups, but eventually he said "OK, that's enough," and closed the crack, leaving some people back in the earth.

Working that into our Native creation myth would allow us to justify the existence of things underground, and I think it falls in nicely with the idea that those underground beings are both primal and spiritual. I also like the idea of flipping the creation stories (First Creator was in the North and Lone Man was in the South) just because those sacred mountains are in the north. How can we work the Lone Man narrative into the above legend?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

As for a name for this place, what if we just called it "The New World?" It's got that sense of discovery and destiny attached to it, it's easily recognizable, and "The Empire of the New World" sounds pretty cool. Even if we end up coming up with a different name for it later on, I figure we can use this as a placeholder.

Short, simple. I like it. I was trying (and failing) to work with Columbia for a name, as that is another poetic name for America.

Working that into our Native creation myth would allow us to justify the existence of things underground, and I think it falls in nicely with the idea that those underground beings are both primal and spiritual. I also like the idea of flipping the creation stories (First Creator was in the North and Lone Man was in the South) just because those sacred mountains are in the north. How can we work the Lone Man narrative into the above legend?

Not too fluent in the Lone Man story (except through a cursory wiki dive), but I think I can help. If you want a Devil-figure (the Disney Method of working with mythology), then the Lone Man could be the shadow cast by the First Creator. He is, in essence, the First Destroyer and he brought death into the world. Of course, in the myth itself when the Creator asks his shadow why it created death, the Lone Man would say, "You were careless, and brought too much life to the world. Life multiplies too fast, and if I did not create an end to it, Life would become miserable when it used up all the land."

Or the Lone Man could be the brother of the First Creator, but I'd still have him create stuff like death in the above example. I think the original myth (read here) had something to do with death coming into the world via a frog, but I just gave that job to Lone Man. I kinda like the idea of making some of the Natives a little Zarathustran in that they see a Good and Evil force at work in the world, but that neither is perfect. The First Creator created many good things, but also the bad, and he may be a bit careless in his wanton creation. The Lone Man is implacable as death itself, but he tempers his Brother's frivolities with cold, hard rationalism.

[Zap Dynamic]

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Not too fluent in the Lone Man story (except through a cursory wiki dive), but I think I can help. If you want a Devil-figure (the Disney Method of working with mythology), then the Lone Man could be the shadow cast by the First Creator. He is, in essence, the First Destroyer and he brought death into the world. Of course, in the myth itself when the Creator asks his shadow why it created death, the Lone Man would say, "You were careless, and brought too much life to the world. Life multiplies too fast, and if I did not create an end to it, Life would become miserable when it used up all the land."

Or the Lone Man could be the brother of the First Creator, but I'd still have him create stuff like death in the above example. I think the original myth (read here) had something to do with death coming into the world via a frog, but I just gave that job to Lone Man. I kinda like the idea of making some of the Natives a little Zarathustran in that they see a Good and Evil force at work in the world, but that neither is perfect. The First Creator created many good things, but also the bad, and he may be a bit careless in his wanton creation. The Lone Man is implacable as death itself, but he tempers his Brother's frivolities with cold, hard rationalism.

I like it. To match it up with the story in TheMeMan's post, we could say that Lone Man's rational side helped to create the social group in Native cultures. To maintain the balance, First Creator created all the deadly and dangerous things as well as the good things, and the society created by Lone Man protects the Natives from those things. This muddies the waters a little bit in terms of the life-death dichotomy, but maybe that's the way it should be. Life is generally good but can be specifically bad, and Death is dreadful but forces a very helpful rationale on the world. Well looky there! That might be a dandy theme upon which to build a lot of Native cultural minutiae. It enforces the kind of "respect everything and examine everything with wisdom" thing that you see pop up in Native American velvet paintings.

[TheMeMan]

Short, simple. I like it. I was trying (and failing) to work with Columbia for a name, as that is another poetic name for America.



Not too fluent in the Lone Man story (except through a cursory wiki dive), but I think I can help. If you want a Devil-figure (the Disney Method of working with mythology), then the Lone Man could be the shadow cast by the First Creator. He is, in essence, the First Destroyer and he brought death into the world. Of course, in the myth itself when the Creator asks his shadow why it created death, the Lone Man would say, "You were careless, and brought too much life to the world. Life multiplies too fast, and if I did not create an end to it, Life would become miserable when it used up all the land."

Or the Lone Man could be the brother of the First Creator, but I'd still have him create stuff like death in the above example. I think the original myth (read here) had something to do with death coming into the world via a frog, but I just gave that job to Lone Man. I kinda like the idea of making some of the Natives a little Zarathustran in that they see a Good and Evil force at work in the world, but that neither is perfect. The First Creator created many good things, but also the bad, and he may be a bit careless in his wanton creation. The Lone Man is implacable as death itself, but he tempers his Brother's frivolities with cold, hard rationalism.

Actually, Lone Man was pretty much entirely a culture-Hero figure who was friend to man. First Creator, once again depending on the story, was more of an antagonist than a benevolent being. Essentially Lone Man was associated with the Village, Man, and domestication. Whereas First Creator was associated more heavily with the "Wilds", and natural forces and the like.

Edit: On that note, I had a thought for creation. Basically, First Creator is a divine creator of all things(Even Lone Man), though is indifferent towards concepts of "Good" and "Evil". He created life to populate his world(Or continent), and Death as effective other side of the coin. However, he did not create Man proper-rather he opened a rift into the underground where they had been created. Lone Man was one of these original men to have come from the underground(All the others are long since dead). Lone Man taught the people how to exist within the Above World, and created rules that governed their lives within the villages. First Creator knew that left unchecked, these beings would soon overpopulate his world and created Death. However, Death is not an end in itself, as the "spirits" of the dead essentially become incorporated into the land, allowing the "Natural" world to flourish.

Lone Man, however, somehow alluded death, and his risen to Godhood, and is worshiped by any tribes that live within villages of all sorts. Those that do not worship Lone Man are the "Wild men" or some such, who revere First Creator first and foremost and despise Lone Man as someone who refuses to acknowledge the natural order. First Creator does not see it this way, as he see the Village life as merely another form of his creation(Remember: Neither good nor evil, his wisdom allows him to see all things within his realm as being a part of a greater whole).

With that brief summary, some ideas on Lone Man and other things involving your backstories:

1. He and the other original surface dwellers are behind the ancient technology in the south. He effectively used said technology to become immortal and gain incredible power. He is now essentially a god because of this, at least when viewed by mortal men.

2. The technology, in essence, is powered by the spirits of the dead. Likely only willing spirits would become part of this technology. In a similar vein as to how spirits of the Dead become incorporated into the land.

3. The "Wild Men" could be antagonists or even an allied group. They would oppose both the Empire and most of the Native Tribes as being an affront toward First Creator. They would be heavily interested in destroying the ancient native technology for good, and bringing an end to Lone Man.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Thought of something for mythic folk heroes (I know Zap wanted more of these)!

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Along the border between the Empire and Borado, there exists a land rich in resources and culture known as Latobas, or “horrible desert” in the language of the Natives, who lacked damming technology to profit from the land. Steam technology has made the land prosperous, but only for the wealthy landowners, who use their power with the local Governors to keep the local people held in near-serfdom.

But among the aristocrats there is one man who refused to destroy the little people. By day, he was wealthy playboy, Jefito Grandolas. By night, he was Blackfox! masked savior of the poor and downtrodden. He would ride into town on a black steed and rob the local corrupt officials, disperse their ill-gotten gains among the people, and then vanish as if he were a shadow.

Aiding him is an Imperial, a mysterious masked man whose god-like skill with the revolver is a perfect match for Blackfox's skill with the blade. This mysterious man is called, the Masked Imperial because, let's face it, none of the poor and downtrodden were particularly well-educated or very clever. The Masked Imperial, according to folklore, fights injustice wherever he finds it in order to avenge the deaths of his family at the hands of bandits.

In addition, they are aided by the Masked Imperials long-time friend, an exiled Shaman of the Native peoples, Kutu. Kutu is often heard calling the Masked Imperial Rantamabe, which no one has the heart to actually translate for the Masked Imperial (hint: it rhymes with “nick-bed”).

Together, these three men battle injustice in the Grand West!